Bills re-sign Feliciano

[billsfan89]

1 minute ago, Jerome007 said:

Amazing. I didn't think they had the cap space to retain them all. Sucks for Brown but otherwise team is intact.

 

 

I don't see many teams improving with the 2021 salary cap so staying the same is a big win

Brown is the only real loss of talent and while I would have loved to have kept him there are just difficult choices you have to make with a cap.

[Motor26]

5 minutes ago, Jerome007 said:

Amazing. I didn't think they had the cap space to retain them all. Sucks for Brown but otherwise team is intact.

 

 

I don't see many teams improving with the 2021 salary cap so staying the same is a big win

But they are still the same team who lost to the Chiefs twice. I like the Williams resigning, but I honestly would have been fine with them letting Milano and Mongo walk. They would at least have cap space to sign a free agent edge rusher and possibly a potential CB2. I believe they could get a player as good as Mongo with potential to be better in the draft. They still lack a pass rush, and Tampa showed how to beat KC, by getting to Mahomes.

[97bills]

5 hours ago, wvbillsfan said:

For a team that couldn’t run the ball I don’t see how bringing back our entire offensive line is a good thing. 

This is one of the things I was worried about too. I mean guys were blowing up our run game it’s was terrible to watch moss get gained tackle on just about every 3-1

[JaCrispy]

3 minutes ago, 97bills said:

This is one of the things I was worried about too. I mean guys were blowing up our run game it’s was terrible to watch moss get gained tackle on just about every 3-1

This is what leads me to believe we are not yet done with the oline...it would be real nice to throw a high draft pick into the competition and let him duke it out with the two current guards...I just don’t yet have faith in Ford to just hand him the starting gig without solid competition...

[97bills]

3 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

This is what leads me to believe we are not yet done with the oline...it would be real nice to throw a high draft pick into the competition and let him duke it out with the two current guards...I just don’t yet have faith in Ford to just hand him the starting gig without solid competition...

Man I hope your right our run game was hard to watch last year. There were a few games we just needed a few first downs and we weren’t  even close to moving the Dline 

[Eddiegoofball]

Glad he's re-signing. Seems like there's been Bills news every day this past week!

[97bills]

8 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Eh. I don’t think status quo is a huge success..... as another poster mentioned, the gap between them and the Chiefs was on full display in both meetings.... a big reason because they couldn’t touch Mahomes nor run the ball or protect Allen very well.... I thought premier pass rusher was #1 on the priority list next to adding another quality playmaker. I think they have to find a way to get that done. 

It’s hard to argue that.  our current Dline just isn’t getting it done and it want be any better this year unless A.J comes along way. I just don’t no I hope for the best but Philip rivers wasn’t touched either 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, njbuff said:

I still can see the Bills snagging an interior OLmen with one of their first three draft picks.

 

But they do have 5 picks after the 3rd round, so they might just draft someone they might think they can develop.

 

I could be mistaken and obviously the Bills have found some gems in the back of the draft, but it wouldn't surpirse me for the Beane-meister to package some of those 5 picks to move around a bit in the 1st 3 rounds.

[BillsFan692]

We've always wanted a GM that was smarter than the message board -- at least we have one finally =P

[MAJBobby]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

All depends on the TV deals. 

Not really Players Still have to give the money back that was “borrowed” to set the floor of 182.5M. Well over what the cap should be. 
 

so let’s say the new number next year calls for a 30M increase. That would be an increase to 150M where it should be set now. Meaning a 2.5M increase in 2022 only. 

4 hours ago, Mango said:

 

 

 

Agreed. A huge portion of a jump going forward will be the TV deals, which are reportedly making a leap. Plus stadium revenue. 
 

I would have to dig it up, but the editor of Spotrac was quoted saying he thought the cap could jump to something like $220M in 2022. Right now the site is a little more conservative, projecting $209M. That puts the Bills cap at about $33M. If it goes to $220M the Bills have $44M in space. I should note, these are all pre-Mongo numbers. 

 

I aired on the high side, but still within the range. 
 

Just looking at the FA list, I think this is a much harder year for us than next year. Basically Philips, Wallace, Edmunds, and Allen. I don’t think Phillips and Wallace command much money. Edmunds is still a ??? for me in regards to what his contract value is/will be, especially given the value of Milano’s new contract. I can’t imagine dumping $25M per year into the production we go in 2020. 

Still not accounting for the players Borrower Money of 27M per team. So a 30M spike only would move the cap 3M is the owners said well we are taking that payback in full in 2022. Likely won’t. I suspect a 5-10m reduction of where the cap should be every year until that 27M is paid back. 

[Aussie Joe]

58 minutes ago, FFadpecr said:

Sign LG Thuney to complete the OL.

 

 

 

Can they afford to pay all 5 guys on OL?

[MAJBobby]

4 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Don’t think you get it Jerry Jones is running the tv negotiations he just signed a 40 million dollar qb he will make sure he squeezes these networks for every single penny cap next year will be 220 

Ummm again I bet it isn’t. Players owe between 25-30M per team back to NFL. You really think the Owners won’t get that money back lol. 

[MAJBobby]

This is why it will still go up. But don’t expect a significant jump as they borrowed around 27.5M per team from future Cap

 

“Multiple agents told Packer Central that they expect the owners and players union to agree to borrow against future caps to “smooth over” the difference between the potential for a dramatically decreased cap in 2021 and dramatically increased caps in the future.”

 

so look for it to go on its normal 10M jump per year until that borrower cap is paid back. 

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/ny-nfl-salary-cap-20210220-vzny3dynmnd3nkafna5diavvfy-story.html

 

Plus, as ESPN reported, the decreased 2020 revenue numbers in a normal year would have set the 2021 cap at around $160 million. So any difference between that number and the 2021 cap will have to be borrowed against the 2022 and 2023 cap limits in a “2021 COVID True-Up,” per the terms of the NFL’s side-letter agreement with the players’ union.

 

So any cap number higher than that $180 million floor will require more money sliced off the cap in upcoming years.

[wppete]

[GunnerBill]

28 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Not really Players Still have to give the money back that was “borrowed” to set the floor of 182.5M. Well over what the cap should be. 
 

so let’s say the new number next year calls for a 30M increase. That would be an increase to 150M where it should be set now. Meaning a 2.5M increase in 2022 only. 

Still not accounting for the players Borrower Money of 27M per team. So a 30M spike only would move the cap 3M is the owners said well we are taking that payback in full in 2022. Likely won’t. I suspect a 5-10m reduction of where the cap should be every year until that 27M is paid back. 

 

I think the owners' original plan (rumoured back last summer) was a 3 year payback so they'd pay back the $25-30m 'borrow' over the next two years. 

 

I think you are also slightly underestimating the likely increase to revenues. The current tv deal is $7.5bn per year. The NFL are reportedly confident that $10bn per year is achievable and are even talking $12-14bn. Taking the conservative end of that estimate that is $2.5bn a year, about $1.2bn of which would be due to the players under the CBA. That works out at about $37.5m per team on the cap. So half of the 'borrow' comes back I still reckon that leaves us looking at a $25m or so bump in 2022 which would be up to the $210m or so that was originally estimated for this year. 

 

I don't doubt the players still owe some money back, I do doubt that is is likely to result in only a very small cap hike in 2022.

 

As an aside, if the NFL secures its ceiling price of $14bn a year (I doubt it but if....) then the salary cap bump for each team in 2022 would be $96m before any claw back. That would be inflation central for contracts.... paging Brandon Beane - sign Josh now.

Edited March 15, 2021 by GunnerBill

[Mango]

12 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

This is why it will still go up. But don’t expect a significant jump as they borrowed around 27.5M per team from future Cap

 

“Multiple agents told Packer Central that they expect the owners and players union to agree to borrow against future caps to “smooth over” the difference between the potential for a dramatically decreased cap in 2021 and dramatically increased caps in the future.”

 

so look for it to go on its normal 10M jump per year until that borrower cap is paid back. 

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/ny-nfl-salary-cap-20210220-vzny3dynmnd3nkafna5diavvfy-story.html

 

Plus, as ESPN reported, the decreased 2020 revenue numbers in a normal year would have set the 2021 cap at around $160 million. So any difference between that number and the 2021 cap will have to be borrowed against the 2022 and 2023 cap limits in a “2021 COVID True-Up,” per the terms of the NFL’s side-letter agreement with the players’ union.

 

So any cap number higher than that $180 million floor will require more money sliced off the cap in upcoming years.

I vaguely remember some sort of loan or insurance for salaries before the season started. Do you have a link for the $26-30M you are talking about? I can’t dig anything up. 
 

From the article you linked, it only mentions paying back anything borrowed over $180M agreed upon floor. By this article, the NFLPA will proportionately eat a couple of bucks. 

[Billever76]

6 hours ago, wvbillsfan said:

For a team that couldn’t run the ball I don’t see how bringing back our entire offensive line is a good thing. 

Continuity my friend

[Malazan]

6 hours ago, Brennan Huff said:

This is great. I just want to know how we’re going to get a pass rush specialist 🤷🏻‍♂️. What more can Beane pull out of his ass?

 

The draft. 

 

They were never signing the top couple pass rusher's in free agency. It was always going to be a middle tier guy.

[billsfan89]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Eh. I don’t think status quo is a huge success..... as another poster mentioned, the gap between them and the Chiefs was on full display in both meetings.... a big reason because they couldn’t touch Mahomes nor run the ball or protect Allen very well.... I thought premier pass rusher was #1 on the priority list next to adding another quality playmaker. I think they have to find a way to get that done. 

 

Keeping together a 13-3 team that won 2 playoff games before the draft is a huge success given the cap limitations. There is still the draft to add pieces and there is no guarantee that KC returns as strong. They already cut both of their tackles and have a lot of players getting older. I do agree there needs to be more done to get this team over the top but entering into the draft not losing any starters (assuming the restricted free agents get signed) is a significant victory in my opinion. 

[2ForMacAdoo]

5 hours ago, Eastport bills said:

Absolutely troublesome performance by coaches and O-line. The only argument in their defense is with Singletary ,who should have been wearing a dress as timid as he was, the D-line pinned their ears and just brought pressure. A semblance of a running attack would have slowed them a little. The other argument is its one terrible game.

It was more than one terrible game. They were manhandled twice by the Chiefs, albeit in very different ways. The first, regular season game, Edwards Helaire ran all over them at will; the AFCCG Mahomes, Hill and Kelce had their way. Pick your posion. We had zero answers on D in either game, and struggled mightily without a semblance of balance on offense.

[gobills404]

7 hours ago, BillsMafi$ said:

Bringing back the same o-line means the Bills DGAF about the running game. Which I love 

One new guard was never gonna make a big difference. It was always gonna come via coaching. Our run blocking was excellent in 2019 and our current talent on the line is comparable if not better than it was that year.

[beerme1]

7 hours ago, wvbillsfan said:

For a team that couldn’t run the ball I don’t see how bringing back our entire offensive line is a good thing. 

 

Cause we got a quarterback yo. It's good for him. For throwing the ball. Like a quarterback needs to do. Catch up. This is 2021.

[Doc Brown]

Did the Bills ever have the combo of Dawkins, Ford, Morse, Feliciano, and Williams as their o-line last year?  I think the combination of injuries to Ford, Morse, and Feliciano prevented it.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

Did the Bills ever have the combo of Dawkins, Ford, Morse, Feliciano, and Williams as their o-line last year?  I think the combination of injuries to Ford, Morse, and Feliciano prevented it.

No. They never had Ford - Morse - Feliciano on the field together last year. 

 

Ford IMO was just starting to get comfortable at LG when the injury hit also. 

Edited March 15, 2021 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Boxcar]

Holy jeeze, Feliciano is wildly overrated here. Maybe they didn't want to roll the dice on being able to lock up a FA guard who is better? Or maybe it's another one of those "culture" signings.

 

My basis for this conclusion is every stat ever, btw. Let the thumbs down roll in.

Edited March 15, 2021 by Boxcar
My brain is not good at maths

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, Boxcar said:

Holy jeeze, Feliciano is wildly overrated here. Maybe they didn't want to roll the dice on being able to lock up a FA guard who is better? Or maybe it's another one of those "culture" signings.

 

My basis for this conclusion is every stat ever, btw. Let the thumbs down roll in.

He's been an average interior OL. He adds value with his ability to play all 3 interior positions at a pretty average level. 

 

It would be very difficult to find a better OG for $5 million per year in UFA. 

 

What stats by the way? 

Edited March 15, 2021 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Aussie Joe]

1 hour ago, Boxcar said:

Holy jeeze, Feliciano is wildly overrated here. Maybe they didn't want to roll the dice on being able to lock up a FA guard who is better? Or maybe it's another one of those "culture" signings.

 

My basis for this conclusion is every stat ever, btw. Let the thumbs down roll in.

Who is over rating him?

 

We haven’t even seen the numbers on his deal yet... he might be gone in 2022

[machine gun kelly]

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

No. They never had Ford - Morse - Feliciano on the field together last year. 

 

Ford IMO was just starting to get comfortable at LG when the injury hit also. 

Exactly, they reworked the line throughout the year with Winters, Long briefly, Ford towards the beginning and so on.  2021 you can assume Dawkins, Ford or Boettger, Morse, Mongo, and Williams.  Sal keeps talking about Bates was a popular development guy from the coaches so we’ll see what happens.

 

I didn’t expect both Feliciano to resign with us, and for him to accept $5.65 mil./yr..  He and his agent must have realized the market, and realized its best to just sit tight here.

 

There is no reason to overreact that our line will not perform.  They were one of the better pass pro lines in football.  Barring injuries and the return of Ford at LG, things could be better this year.  We blocked well in 2019 in the run.  My guess is the line shuffling and the scheme are more if the problem vs. the players.  When Feliciano returned, the line looked better.

 

Beane is proving to our players, if you play well consistently, you’ll receive fair contracts.  People freaked out about Diggs and then he turns out to be the best WR in the league and even with his restructure, was a heck of a lot cheaper than Hopkins and others.  Some people went nuts when Tre received his contract, and then Ramsey fleeced LA.

 

This is why Beane won the executive of the year.  It probably changes our strategy moving forward.  My guess is we may either release or get one or two more pay cuts (guessing maybe Hughes) or restructure one or two (Dawkins, Diggs, Tre).  I’m still holding onto the fantasy we get Jonnu Smith as we are way out of the edge rusher market.

 

No one really knows what will happen in the draft until free agency opens up and see what Beane does with whatever he has left.  This should be a fun two weeks, and then we can obsess on the draft.

[eball]

13 hours ago, wvbillsfan said:

For a team that couldn’t run the ball I don’t see how bringing back our entire offensive line is a good thing. 

 

Don’t tell anyone, but they pass block too.

[BillsFan1988]

13 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

The best thing we could have done this offseason is keep last year's team as intact as possible while making upgrades at our two biggest weaknesses, namely offensive speed and pass rush.

 

We can draft offensive speed and probably still make room to sign one of the available free agent pass rushers with a couple restructures and cuts. I expect that Beane knows this and will make it a priority.

 

If we upgrade on those two weaknesses, and hopefully at least a couple of our young players take a big step this year, we are ready to compete for the Super Bowl. Especially with the Chiefs losing starters, the gap has closed.

I would of liked to see at least a upgrade at RG and bring someone in threw the draft to compete with Ford 

[machine gun kelly]

5 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

No. They never had Ford - Morse - Feliciano on the field together last year. 

 

Ford IMO was just starting to get comfortable at LG when the injury hit also. 

Exactly, they reworked the line throughout the year with Winters, Long briefly, Ford towards the beginning and so on.  2021 you can assume Dawkins, Ford or Boettger, Morse, Mongo, and Williams.  Sal keeps talking about Bates was a popular development guy from the coaches so we’ll see what happens.

 

I didn’t expect both Feliciano to resign with us, and for him to accept $5.5 mil. 

[Back2Buff]

Not a huge fan of this move.  I want to see the contract breakdown, but hopefully it is low cap this year, with the ability to get out after 2 years.

[RyanC883]

i still see OL being possible at 30 if bpa.  

[YoloinOhio]

Zeitler contract for comparison 

 

[MAJBobby]

8 hours ago, Mango said:

I vaguely remember some sort of loan or insurance for salaries before the season started. Do you have a link for the $26-30M you are talking about? I can’t dig anything up. 
 

From the article you linked, it only mentions paying back anything borrowed over $180M agreed upon floor. By this article, the NFLPA will proportionately eat a couple of bucks. 

The same article says based on revenue the true cap should be 160M. Anything over that is borrowing against future caps. 
 

others have said it should be as low as 150M based on the actual revenue this year. 

[ProcessTruster]

signing their own

 

trust the process

[SoCal Deek]

I’ve read a ton of whining on here about the Feliciano signing but I have to wonder if they’ve got a plan to switch out blocking SCHEMES and not players. It may be they plan on ‘fixing’ the running game in other ways (drafting a running back, change in OL coaching). I don’t think anyone could watch the 2020 season and not think there’s some major improvement needed.

[Malazan]

19 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’ve read a ton of whining on here about the Feliciano signing but I have to wonder if they’ve got a plan to switch out blocking SCHEMES and not players. It may be they plan on ‘fixing’ the running game in other ways (drafting a running back, change in OL coaching). I don’t think anyone could watch the 2020 season and not think there’s some major improvement needed.

 

Well, that's the question. Why did a running game that was competent the year prior, and then this past year with mostly the same guys (Williams being an obvious improvement at right tackle) perform so poorly? That sounds a lot more like scheme than having 3-5 O lineman performing poorly on any given play. 

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, jeremy2020 said:

 

Well, that's the question. Why did a running game that was competent the year prior, and then this past year with mostly the same guys (Williams being an obvious improvement at right tackle) perform so poorly? That sounds a lot more like scheme than having 3-5 O lineman performing poorly on any given play. 

I wish I knew more about the  intricacies of O Line play, but I’m guessing there’s a bit more to the Bills running game problems than just the players themselves. I’m guessing it has way more to do with a poorly constructed running game plan and play design. It’s just easier for fans to say the players under performed. 

[Eastport bills]

9 hours ago, 2ForMacAdoo said:

It was more than one terrible game. They were manhandled twice by the Chiefs, albeit in very different ways. The first, regular season game, Edwards Helaire ran all over them at will; the AFCCG Mahomes, Hill and Kelce had their way. Pick your posion. We had zero answers on D in either game, and struggled mightily without a semblance of balance on offense.

Try and look at the big picture instead of looking for perfection. The 1st game was played in a storm. Josh had problems with zero run game and with bad throws early to open receivers. The Bills were not prepared to stop a run game and Mahomes improvisational passing game to Hill, Kelce and Watkins. We need pressure on him like Tampa had. This should be addressed in FA and the draft. A running attack like Fournette and Jones couldn't hurt to open things up for Josh. This was a breakout year for us. Usually it takes games like the KC debacles to expose positional shortcomings. The other games the last half of the season our offense was super dominant and when you win 9 of 10, with Hail Murray being the loss, your talking about a team that's real close. Remember KC lost to Brady the last season before they got their ring.