"20 other QB's in the league could have won w/ the Bucs on Sunday"

[TheFunPolice]

2 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

Although I have chilled on it for a good amount of time, I have been trying to diminish his accomplishments and minimize Brady for years.  We lost.  Its over.  its the wrong side of the argument and 98% of people on Earth will laugh it out of the room.

 

No matter what the situation is, cheating, TB12 booster shots, etc...  10 Superbowls and 7 victories is pretty insane.  It is hard to make and win a Superbowl.

 

I have always been "I would take Manning in a heartbeat" guy over Brady... but now its very difficult to make that case.  I have no desire to waste time and energy.  Just go with the flow.

 

 

Tampa Bay winning with Brady is a huge thing for his legacy in the face of doubters..  Completely takes Belichick and the NE 'environment' out of it.

 

I was the same way, but honestly I don't mind him winning in TB. 

 

I don't like it, but it's not New England, so it feels different. Plus it sets an example for young players: focus, dedication, don't beat yourself. 

[TheBrownBear]

This is a pretty stupid exercise.  I mean, hell, Darnold or Tua could have won that game if all they needed to do was muster 10 points.  

 

Now, how many QBs would I trust to meet the moment in the Super Bowl and play as well as Brady did?  Maybe 4 or 5.

[Success]

9 minutes ago, Figster said:

2 recent threads down playing Brady's role in the Championships?

 

Without much Success...

 

It's downplaying to dare suggest that football might be a team game, and that rings are often a team accomplishment?

 

I'll try to pipe down about that going forward.

 

[TheFunPolice]

Certain guys always seem to be the winners in the end. 

 

Others constantly get hyped as the greatest QBs ever but win once.

 

Brees

Rodgers

 

Just for starters. "Best QBs in the league" who never seem to be in the big dance and whose teams always seem to come up short, regardless of circumstances. 

 

It's crazy to say it, but Mahomes could very well have a Wilson type career, going to 2 straight, being hyped as an MVP every year, but never getting back for a LONG time, if ever. 

 

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by TheFunPolice

[Success]

1 minute ago, TheFunPolice said:

Certain guys always seem to be the winners in the end. 

 

Others constantly get hyped as the greatest QBs ever but win once.

 

Brees

Rodgers

 

Just for starters. "Best QBs in the league" who never seem to be in the big dance and whose teams always seem to come up short, regardless of circumstances. 

 

 

 

I think my problem is that I look at things from too nuanced of a perspective.

 

For example, people look at the NFCCG, and say "Brady beat Rodgers."

 

But Rodgers wasn't on defense for the 1st half hail mary. And in the 2nd half, his biggest mistake was not seeing the clear lane to the endzone if he just ran to the right, while Brady's 2nd half mistakes included 3 picks.

 

But, the narrative will always be that Brady was "clutch" in that game, and that Rodgers "choked again."

 

It's easier to just say "Brady beat Rodgers."

 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

7 minutes ago, Success said:

 

I think my problem is that I look at things from too nuanced of a perspective.

 

For example, people look at the NFCCG, and say "Brady beat Rodgers."

 

But Rodgers wasn't on defense for the 1st half hail mary. And in the 2nd half, his biggest mistake was not seeing the clear lane to the endzone if he just ran to the right, while Brady's 2nd half mistakes included 3 picks.

 

But, the narrative will always be that Brady was "clutch" in that game, and that Rodgers "choked again."

 

It's easier to just say "Brady beat Rodgers."

 

Brady threw 3-interceptions in that game.

 

The Packers offense was given everything they needed to win that game. 

 

They didn't get it done. On the last two interceptions, the Packers went three and out both times. 

 

 

 

You can split hairs if you're trying to figure out who was better, John Elway or Brett Favre. Two Super Bowls to One Super Bowl, etc. 

 

But Brady is now at 10 Super Bowl appearances. There are no more debates, or he just lucky excuses. He is too far past that now. There are no coincidences anymore. 

Edited February 9, 2021 by Straight Hucklebuck

[Figster]

11 minutes ago, Success said:

 

It's downplaying to dare suggest that football might be a team game, and that rings are often a team accomplishment?

 

I'll try to pipe down about that going forward.

 

Never mind me,

 

Just one of them, don't say you didn't, when, well

 

Its all good...

[Nextmanup]

Even if you are in the camp that thinks the SB was all about defense, you should be able to see that the easier, more reliable path to victory is through offense.

 

KC got to the SB 2 years in a row and won one of them with a crazy high powered offense that couldn't be beat.

 

And they will be back!  Probably lots of times.

 

Bills need to work on offense; we don't have a dangerous speed threat on that entire side of the ball save Brown, and even he isn't much of a threat.

 

Keep going Bills! Build up the offense; get more weapons.

 

 

[Success]

1 minute ago, Figster said:

Never mind me,

 

Just one of them, don't say you didn't, when, well

 

Its all good...

 

It's cool, and you're not really wrong.  I shouldn't have started 2 threads about essentially the same thing.  The post-game narratives, typically, got to me.  Particularly Romo's late-game "well, now Mahomes has to win 8 to be considered the greatest" thing.  As though the argument is all rings, all day.

 

I'm not a Brady/GOAT truther.  I've thought he was the GOAT for years now, irrespective of rings.  

 

[Mark80]

Just imagine you're his teammate, maybe special teams player or a defensive player, and you get a random text before the game.  All it says is We Will Win, and its from the GOAT of all time.  I know if that happens to me, I'm f'n pumped.  I'm ready to prove everyone wrong.  Having a guy like him goes beyond just what he is doing on the field.  Could someone else have thrown 20 for 26 with 3TDs and 0 turnovers through 3 Quarters (can't believe people question his performance with these numbers)?  Sure.  Could 20 other QBs have their team as prepared and motivated with as much as he contributes to those areas?  Get the f' out of here with that crap.  The number is probably below 5.

Edited February 9, 2021 by Mark80

[Southern Bills Fan]

I still fuc*&ng hate him.

[Doc Brown]

Two things are pry both true...

-The team would've never made it to the Super Bowl without Brady coming to Tampa.  The three players who scored a TD were recruited by Brady.

-A game manager who doesn't make mistakes easily wins that Super Bowl and that's what Brady was.

 

He was smart enough to go to a team that was just a few ingredients away (both on and off the field) and he went and provided those missing pieces.  I can't minimize his accomplishment because the defense played really well.

[Figster]

11 minutes ago, Success said:

 

It's cool, and you're not really wrong.  I shouldn't have started 2 threads about essentially the same thing.  The post-game narratives, typically, got to me.  Particularly Romo's late-game "well, now Mahomes has to win 8 to be considered the greatest" thing.  As though the argument is all rings, all day.

 

I'm not a Brady/GOAT truther.  I've thought he was the GOAT for years now, irrespective of rings.  

 

and I get that about the rings. Brady could have been drafted by a badly managed team from the get go and none of this may have ever even happened IMO. 

 

The argument you make is not a bad one. I suppose you could say Tom Brady has also been very fortunate from a team/organization perspective IMO.

Edited February 9, 2021 by Figster

[Jobot]

Sure... but could 20 other qbs have gotten the Bucs to the super bowl?

[TheFunPolice]

I remember when Seattle was the next dynasty, and Russ would be back a bunch of times. that last part was said with just as much certainty as with Mahomes.

 

They had just gone to the SB back to back, and you were nuts to say Wilson wouldn't be back in the near future. 

 

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by TheFunPolice

[starrymessenger]

8 minutes ago, Mark80 said:

Just imagine you're his teammate, maybe special teams player or a defensive player, and you get a random text before the game.  All it says is We Will Win, and its from the GOAT of all time.  I know if that happens to me, I'm f'n pumped.  I'm ready to prove everyone wrong.  Having a guy like him goes beyond just what he is doing on the field.  Could someone else have thrown 20 for 26 with 3TDs and 0 turnovers through 3 Quarters (can't believe people question his performance with these numbers)?  Sure.  Could 20 other QBs have their team as prepared and motivated with as much as he contributes to those areas?  Get the f' out of here with that crap.  The number is probably below 5.

All true, and what what Brady’s leadership proves to me is what Allen’s leadership may produce as he matures. He too has the makings of a great leader and has done a lot to change the culture in Buffalo.

[Success]

7 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Two things are pry both true...

-The team would've never made it to the Super Bowl without Brady coming to Tampa.  The three players who scored a TD were recruited by Brady.

-A game manager who doesn't make mistakes easily wins that Super Bowl and that's what Brady was.

 

He was smart enough to go to a team that was just a few ingredients away (both on and off the field) and he went and provided those missing pieces.  I can't minimize his accomplishment because the defense played really well.

 

I agree w/ all of that.  And w/ the posts saying how he single-handedly changed the culture there, and knew how to motivate his teammates.  The SB was really just the icing on the cake he had already baked to near perfection.

 

Probably not the smartest thread in retrospect.  I saw the comment and figured it might be interesting to discuss.  Looking back at it, I realize it's just me futilely shaking my fists at the sky for the umpteenth time in 20 years, and shouting to no one, "BRADY!!!"

[Figster]

21 minutes ago, Mark80 said:

Just imagine you're his teammate, maybe special teams player or a defensive player, and you get a random text before the game.  All it says is We Will Win, and its from the GOAT of all time.  I know if that happens to me, I'm f'n pumped.  I'm ready to prove everyone wrong.  Having a guy like him goes beyond just what he is doing on the field.  Could someone else have thrown 20 for 26 with 3TDs and 0 turnovers through 3 Quarters (can't believe people question his performance with these numbers)?  Sure.  Could 20 other QBs have their team as prepared and motivated with as much as he contributes to those areas?  Get the f' out of here with that crap.  The number is probably below 5.

From the game within the game this is true.

 

From a QB capable of scoring 10 points?

Edited February 9, 2021 by Figster

[Malazan]

This is just silly. 20 other QBs? No way!

 

I'd believe 19..,but 20 is just over the top

[without a drought]

The Brady way is not for everyone.

[prissythecat]

7 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

This is just silly. 20 other QBs? No way!

 

I'd believe 19..,but 20 is just over the top

it’s actually 21 ,  since @NewEra said in some other threads he could also have QBd Tampa to a win 😛

[Protocal69]

2 hours ago, Success said:

I saw this comment on twitter.  Thoughts?

 

I might not agree w/ 20 - but I'd say 10 or so.  In the aftermath, the focus is Brady, Brady, Brady, and he got the MVP (as QB's do).  Obviously, there is something to the fact that he has led his team to that game so many times over the years, and doing it again at 43 is newsworthy & noteworthy.

 

He played okay.  He had a good 1st half.  If KC's offense had played like KC's offense, he wouldn't have played well enough to get the win.  And this was following a 3 pick half in the NFCCG.

 

Imo, that defense deserves 80% or so of the credit for the W. And even more in the NFCCG.

 

That was a quote on the chiefs message board. So the question is whats the goal win the game or look flashy and lose. The greatness in Brady is he does boring very well.

[NewEra]

4 minutes ago, prissythecat said:

it’s actually 21 ,  since @NewEra said in some other threads he could also have QBd Tampa to a win 😛

I would’ve just thrown the ball up and snatched some DPI penalties.  If I would’ve thrown a pick, the refs would’ve called a defensive holding.  

[BillsBlue]

2 hours ago, GETTOTHE50 said:

Nope, only tommy had a chance. No one else would get those flags to give them second and third chances. No one benefits from the officials like him- especially in crucial moments. 

It was purely disgusting

[Rochesterfan]

2 hours ago, Success said:

I saw this comment on twitter.  Thoughts?

 

I might not agree w/ 20 - but I'd say 10 or so.  In the aftermath, the focus is Brady, Brady, Brady, and he got the MVP (as QB's do).  Obviously, there is something to the fact that he has led his team to that game so many times over the years, and doing it again at 43 is newsworthy & noteworthy.

 

He played okay.  He had a good 1st half.  If KC's offense had played like KC's offense, he wouldn't have played well enough to get the win.  And this was following a 3 pick half in the NFCCG.

 

Imo, that defense deserves 80% or so of the credit for the W. And even more in the NFCCG.

 

 

I just don’t know.  Brady did what he does - quick reads and quick short passes.  He also got a lot of calls that benefited the offense.

 

The throws he made could have been done by 90% of QBs in the NFL including a large number of back-ups and the fact the defense smothered KC - gives credence to the thought, but I look at Mahomes (or Josh) and they had those quick dump off throws and didn’t take them.  
 

I think far fewer QBs are comfortable enough to just take those throws and even fewer can read and make the split second decisions to make them consistently work.  
 

I think he did very little, but I am not going to assume guys that I think are better QBs could of done that well or done it that easily.

[disco]

If we're ONLY talking about the Super Bowl, sure, 20 other QBs could have won based on how well Tampa's D played. Could 20 other QBs have taken that team TO the Super Bowl to even have a chance to win it? I say not even close. Even with Brady, their margin for error was basically one game from not making the playoffs at all.

[st pete gogolak]

1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Analysts can say whatever they want. 

 

Look at the second TD throw to Gronk, a tight spiraled laser.  

 

The TD to Brown is a precise pass at the Goal Line. 

 

He had 40 TDs passing this year at 43 years old. 

 

People who keep looking for flaws or ways to minimize or discredit continue to look bad over and over. 

 

7 Championships with 5 MVPs is not a coincidence. You don't luck into 7 Championships and just happen to play until you're 43 years old. 

Again, not trying to de-legitimize what Brady has done.  Doing what he has done at 43 is nothing short of amazing.  But come on.  "2nd TD to Gronk, a tight spiraled laser".  No one was within 10 yards of Brady when he made that throw (after surveying the field for several seconds).  No one was near Gronk when he caught the ball.  There isn't a single QB in the NFL who couldn't have made that throw.  If a QB could not make that throw, they wouldn't be an NFL QB.

[Buftex]

No doubt in my mind, the Bucs won because of their defense... but trying to downplay Brady just sounds dumb after a while. 

[4_kidd_4]

2 hours ago, BTB said:

Minimizing Brady’s play has been going on here forever. Yet here he is in 2021 at the age for 43 leading his team a SB Championship(#7), and yet the bashing still continues.  Some people will just never accept that he is the GOAT. 

 

....something something cheaters/marcia/refs/sits when he pees. and so on. it does get awfully stale.

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, BTB said:

Minimizing Brady’s play has been going on here forever. Yet here he is in 2021 at the age for 43 leading his team a SB Championship(#7), and yet the bashing still continues.  Some people will just never accept that he is the GOAT. 

 

 

He woke up in FLorida and won a SB with a new a team that couldn't make the playoffs last year.  They were 7-5 before the bye....and then never lost another game, beating Saints and PAckers on the road and then the Chiefs (averaging over 30 ppg over 4 playoff games).

 

He IS the culture of that team. 

 

Honey Badger got in his face (then tried to run away, like Honey Kitty) and Brady went after him.  Earlier he yelled "scoreboard!" at him.

 

He was screaming in the huddle....as they were about to go into victory formation.

 

 

Short shrifting Brady has been a sport for many here for 20 years.  It hasn't made sense for the last dozen years and has never sounded dumber than right now...

 

Guy's a winner and turns many others into winners.  That's what makes one the GOAT.

[BillsCuse]

13 minutes ago, Buftex said:

No doubt in my mind, the Bucs won because of their defense... but trying to downplay Brady just sounds dumb after a while. 

 

3 minutes ago, 4_kidd_4 said:

 

....something something cheaters/marcia/refs/sits when he pees. and so on. it does get awfully stale.

Completely agree, it has gotten super old.  Him and the Pats beat up on us for years because we weren't good enough.  Did I like it?  No, I couldn't stand it, but there's no reason for people to act salty.  Hopefully Allen and The Bills can turn the tides for the next 15+ years.

[Patrick Duffy]

6 hours ago, Success said:

I saw this comment on twitter.  Thoughts?

 

I might not agree w/ 20 - but I'd say 10 or so.  In the aftermath, the focus is Brady, Brady, Brady, and he got the MVP (as QB's do).  Obviously, there is something to the fact that he has led his team to that game so many times over the years, and doing it again at 43 is newsworthy & noteworthy.

 

He played okay.  He had a good 1st half.  If KC's offense had played like KC's offense, he wouldn't have played well enough to get the win.  And this was following a 3 pick half in the NFCCG.

 

Imo, that defense deserves 80% or so of the credit for the W. And even more in the NFCCG.

 

Don't feel like going through the whole thread but will say I strongly disagree. Not 20 anyway. Maybe Rodgers of course, Josh Allen's a good possibility, Wilson. That;s all I would actually bet on. Left Brees out because the rubber has ripped apart off his tires.

 

Also Brady is, well Brady. More experience than anyone as a Super Bowl QB. So you're really way off with that imo.

Edited February 9, 2021 by Patrick_Duffy

[Ya Digg?]

There are a lot of eternally butt hurt people in this thread. Brady didn’t play well in the second half because he didn’t have to. He played great in that first half when they needed him to. Did the defense also play well? Yeah they definitely did, but it’s the Super Bowl, I’m pretty sure the defense helps every team get to the Super Bowl. If the throws that Brady made could have been done by any QB in the league, why is he the only one who does it at such a high level consistently year in and year out? 
 

as far as the penalties are concerned and I said this in another thread-there wasn’t one penalty called on KC in that first half that wasn’t a penalty. They probably couldn’t ruled the PI to Evans at the end of the first half uncatchable, but there was definitely PI on that play. No those calls weren’t made consistently throughout the year, but they were penalties. 
 

As much as I don’t like him, there’s no denying he is still one of the top QB’s in the league and no, there are not 20 other QB’s in the league who would’ve won that game

[Patrick Duffy]

4 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

There are a lot of eternally butt hurt people in this thread. Brady didn’t play well in the second half because he didn’t have to. He played great in that first half when they needed him to. Did the defense also play well? Yeah they definitely did, but it’s the Super Bowl, I’m pretty sure the defense helps every team get to the Super Bowl. If the throws that Brady made could have been done by any QB in the league, why is he the only one who does it at such a high level consistently year in and year out? 
 

as far as the penalties are concerned and I said this in another thread-there wasn’t one penalty called on KC in that first half that wasn’t a penalty. They probably couldn’t ruled the PI to Evans at the end of the first half uncatchable, but there was definitely PI on that play. No those calls weren’t made consistently throughout the year, but they were penalties. 
 

As much as I don’t like him, there’s no denying he is still one of the top QB’s in the league and no, there are not 20 other QB’s in the league who would’ve won that game

Yup, agreed. Even that one though I think he could have ran that ball down if not for the penalty. 

[billsfan89]

What Brady brings on the field yes I agree with that 10-15 other QB's would have won. But Brady brings a leadership and ethic that infects the team and locker room. It goes beyond good play on the field with Brady.

[Mr. WEO]

6 hours ago, Doc said:

Maybe half the NFL.

 

 

Half??

 

Wow, doc....I remember when you used to say it was "half a dozen guys".  lol

 

 

6 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

 

Isn’t it amazing how dinking and dunking can be so effective?  Bills could have done the same thing with similar success against KC—I am sure they are still kicking themselves for their offensive game plan. 

Ha!  you need to stop.

 

You've devolved into gibberish.  In the 2nd Q, the Chiefs blew up with 21 unanswered points to put the Bills on the mat going into halftime---and you say they should have "dinked and dunked"?  Yeah...that would have done it!  

 

Jan 25th, TSW consensus:  "The Chiefs are a clearly better team--best in the league-- and that's why the won"

 

Feb 9: "the Bills could have beaten the Bucs" (who destroyed the team that put the wood to the Bills).

 

classic....

4 hours ago, prissythecat said:

it’s actually 21 ,  since @NewEra said in some other threads he could also have QBd Tampa to a win 😛

 

But not Jordan Love....

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

26 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Half??

 

Wow, doc....I remember when you used to say it was "half a dozen guys".  lol

 

 

Ha!  you need to stop.

 

You've devolved into gibberish.  In the 2nd Q, the Chiefs blew up with 21 unanswered points to put the Bills on the mat going into halftime---and you say they should have "dinked and dunked"?  Yeah...that would have done it!  

 

Jan 25th, TSW consensus:  "The Chiefs are a clearly better team--best in the league-- and that's why the won"

 

Feb 9: "the Bills could have beaten the Bucs" (who destroyed the team that put the wood to the Bills).

 

classic....

 

But not Jordan Love....

I guess we are going to just have to agree to disagree. I just don’t think the Bills are such a bad team. I believe they currently have the talent to beat any team in the NFL. Could they get better at some positions? Absolutely. But contrary to some are saying on here, they are not “10 players away” or “3 more years away.”
 

The reality is that many of these games turns on matchups, and developing the right gameplans. We finished 15-4 playing the fifth hardest schedule,  shredding very good defenses along the way, and holding some very good offenses in check. We have a great team. 

I am not saying this is you, but the recency bias flowing from that KC game and what Tampa did to

KC in the Super Bowl is mind blowing. 

[Thurman#1]

10 hours ago, Success said:

I saw this comment on twitter.  Thoughts?

 

I might not agree w/ 20 - but I'd say 10 or so.  In the aftermath, the focus is Brady, Brady, Brady, and he got the MVP (as QB's do).  Obviously, there is something to the fact that he has led his team to that game so many times over the years, and doing it again at 43 is newsworthy & noteworthy.

 

He played okay.  He had a good 1st half.  If KC's offense had played like KC's offense, he wouldn't have played well enough to get the win.  And this was following a 3 pick half in the NFCCG.

 

Imo, that defense deserves 80% or so of the credit for the W. And even more in the NFCCG.

 

 

 

Possibly true, but the guy on twitter entirely misses the point.

 

You don't win a Super Bowl by winning one game. First you have 16 during which you have to make the playoffs. Then three more and you have to win all three. Then the Super Bowl game.

 

And I promise that if the Bucs start the season with those 20 other guys they don't win the Super Bowl except with Brady and maybe Mahomes and Rodgers. Josh is very close but I'm not sure.

 

 

6 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

He woke up in FLorida and won a SB with a new a team that couldn't make the playoffs last year.  They were 7-5 before the bye....and then never lost another game, beating Saints and PAckers on the road and then the Chiefs (averaging over 30 ppg over 4 playoff games).

 

He IS the culture of that team. 

 

Honey Badger got in his face (then tried to run away, like Honey Kitty) and Brady went after him.  Earlier he yelled "scoreboard!" at him.

 

He was screaming in the huddle....as they were about to go into victory formation.

 

 

Short shrifting Brady has been a sport for many here for 20 years.  It hasn't made sense for the last dozen years and has never sounded dumber than right now...

 

Guy's a winner and turns many others into winners.  That's what makes one the GOAT.

 

 

 

Yup.

 

 

 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Thurman#1

[MPT]

There are at least 20 QBs who could have won that game.

 

The are also at least 20 QBs who wouldn't have almost single-handedly lost the NFCCG.

 

Just a reminder for everybody: Brady has still never won a Super Bowl without a top 3 defense on the other side of the ball. 

 

Insanely talented? Yes. Insanely lucky? Also yes.

[Thurman#1]

3 minutes ago, MPT said:

There are at least 20 QBs who could have won that game.

 

The are also at least 20 QBs who wouldn't have almost single-handedly lost the NFCCG.

 

Just a reminder for everybody: Brady has still never won a Super Bowl without a top 3 defense on the other side of the ball. 

 

Insanely talented? Yes. Insanely lucky? Also yes.

 

 

Um, the 2018 Pats defense was #7. 13th in points.

 

2016 Pats were #8. 1st in points.

 

2014 they were 8th in both.

 

Those were only the first three I looked at. So, no.

 

 

 

Or are you saying that the opponents Ds were all top 3? Because the 2018 Rams were 20th in both.