FireChans Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: The Disease of Me ? He could be right. We’ll see. 2 minutes ago, whatdrought said: This. It is widely thought - and I agree with this to an extent - that McVey has coaxed Goff into being a just average QB. The idea behind the trade is that the offenses ceiling blows up with a QB capable of being good beyond the system and coaching. Yes, if Goff was a bad QB made adequate, the expectation will be for Stafford to be great 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 9 minutes ago, whatdrought said: This. It is widely thought - and I agree with this to an extent - that McVey has coaxed Goff into being a just average QB. The idea behind the trade is that the offenses ceiling blows up with a QB capable of being good beyond the system and coaching. https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2021/01/30/what-do-los-angeles-rams-see-in-matthew-stafford/ I guess I personally see Matthew Stafford as a QB with gaps in his game, they're just different gaps than Goff has. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong or maybe McVay sees them as gaps he can work around for the better. Two years ago, Goff was being lauded as a QB who "always keeps his cool" https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/01/31/draft-bust-super-bowl-qb-two-years-jared-goff-always-keeps-his-cool/ Quote Goff possesses an arm both rocket-strong and precision-accurate, which helped him throw for 4,688 yards and 32 touchdowns this season. “He throws into windows people aren’t supposed to be throwing it in,” tight end Tyler Higbee said. His talent made him the No. 1 pick, but his unruffled attitude launched a complete turnaround, from perceived draft disaster to Super Bowl quarterback in two years. Goff’s unflappable nature is his defining trait. “I’ve never seen him get rattled,” Rams quarterback coach Zac Taylor said. “The moment is never too big for him. He’s very intelligent. Hard worker. All the things you want in a starting quarterback, Jared is.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: The Disease of Me ? I look at it more as an organization that can admit their mistakes. Goff is a below average NFL starter. He was complete trash as a rookie. McVay and that coaching staff did the most they could with him. If Detroit or the rest of the NFL thought Goff wasn’t an Osweiler, Rams wouldn’t have had to trade 2 first rounders to get rid of him. Would’ve been other takers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGMcD2 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) Now for my real take. This is probably a win for the Rams, but Detroit didn't do too bad for themselves. The Rams were very clearly sick of Goff. I know people are going to rip on Stafford, but the bottom line is he's an upgrade one Goff. The way we've seen the NFL go, QBs can play until they're 40 years old in the right system. Stafford will be 33 for the entirety of this upcoming season. He's moving to extremely friendly QB system, one that I feel propped Goff up. I don't think Goff was as bad as his rookie year, but he's also not as good as he's looked playing for McVay at times. The picks are tough to swallow, but moving Goff alone was going to cost a RD1 pick, no doubt about it (See Osweiler, Brock). The Rams have also done VERY well without using RD1 picks. Goff was their last RD1 pick in 2016, since McVay arrived in 2017 the Rams are the 4th winningest team in the NFL. In that same time period, they've done extremely well using the picks they've had to extract value. In my Draft Pick Analysis (found here), done two different ways, the Rams rank 6th and 7th in extracting value with their picks. The strategy has worked well for them over a 4 year period, doesn't mean it will continue to, but they're in win-now mode perpetually. This doesn't actually count (but this tells me maybe it does count), but I believe the Rams relationship with new Detroit GM Brad Holmes (just came from LAR) really helped them execute this deal and because Holmes was a minority hire, the Rams got two picks in return for him. It's ALMOST Goff, 2022 and 2023 1st and 2021 3rd in return for Stafford, 2021 and 2022 3rd. On Detroit's end, Stafford had no place in a long term rebuild. They had had to move him and get picks. Taking Goff's contract sucks, but they're not going anywhere in the near term so it's ok to take the cap hit for the extra pick... it won't kill them. If they can somehow manage to flip Goff here, i'll be impressed. I think it's a good move, but obviously they need to find another taker. LAR felt they could move him regardless of a deal like this, I wouldn't be shocked if DET thinks they can do the same. He's not helping them in the short term either. Edited January 31, 2021 by JGMcD2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, y2zipper said: It's a lot of risk for the Rams because with Seattle and SF, you could still be a 3rd place type operation in the NFC West. It looks like either a misguided attempt at going for it in a short window or a splash trade more than something well thought out or a significant increase in talent. Statistically over the past 5 years I'm not even sure that Stafford and Goff are even that far apart aside from volume, but Stafford has never played in a big enough game to be put under that microscope like Goff. The situation around Goff in LA has been declining quite a bit since 2018 and that team and coach have been living on the perception of the 2018 team for the past couple seasons. Goff hasn't really gotten better or worse than he was, but the rushing offense from 2018 is way down and the Rams don't have receivers that scare anyone vertically. You can trace the decline in their offense to losing Gurley, their line aging a little and the lack of resources they've put into their skill position players. The short version of what's happening here is that it's like Chip Kelly: the Rams put their offensive eggs in the basket that McVay could make a lot out of less talent at WR and RB, and it hasn't proven as true as everyone thinks. They're scapegoating Goff here because they've put so many resources into the defensive side of the ball that there's nothing left for the offense. There's some real truth here. Goff isn't as bad as some have made out, IMO. But it's in McVay's interest that people think Goff is largely to blame. That said, I think it's clear Stafford is better. But giving up 2 firsts will really limit what they can put around Stafford. Edited January 31, 2021 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2021/01/30/what-do-los-angeles-rams-see-in-matthew-stafford/ I guess I personally see Matthew Stafford as a QB with gaps in his game, they're just different gaps than Goff has. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong or maybe McVay sees them as gaps he can work around for the better. I guess we'll see. It's McVey betting on himself and it could go either way. I tend to think Stafford is a better QB than Goff, and that in that system he will do well... That being said, McVey had at least some hand in giving Goff that crazy money... So he is not unimpeachable in his QB decision making process. Time will tell. I think they paid too much, but they paid a lot to get rid of Goff, and they got hamstrung by not offering a 2021 first rounder. If this is a straight Stafford for a first and second, or two firsts, it looks a lot better right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) Lol Rams. So dumb. Staffords a bum. Now he’s a bum on his last legs. 2 firsts for the tail end of this guys career?? Is Bill O’Brien working for the Rams? Good things no NFL fans in LA... Edited January 31, 2021 by Mr. WEO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 The biggest issue this poses to us bills fans is that it creates a precedent for trading franchise QB's in conference, which I was hoping teams wouldn't be dumb enough to do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 3 minutes ago, whatdrought said: The biggest issue this poses to us bills fans is that it creates a precedent for trading franchise QB's in conference, which I was hoping teams wouldn't be dumb enough to do... Yeah maybe Beane will trade Josh for Big Ben lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 14 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said: And yet they regularly make the playoffs each year ... including going 10-6 this year and winning a post season game.. How many SB wins? How much better have they gotten in the last three years as they trade away those first round picks? How good is their cap situation as they trade away the chance to get good young players on rookie contracts for the chance to own older players on expensive second contracts? Winning one post-season game this year and not making the playoffs last year should not be seen as a good result for a team that made the Super Bowl in 2018. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Sports are supposed to be fun. I love what the McVay and the Rams are doing. Draft picks are over-valued. If I’m a fan of a team, I wanna see them going all out for championships. Donald and Ramsey are probably ecstatic too. Can’t waste another year of their prime on Goff. They got out of a bad situation with Goff and are probably favorites in the NFC next year. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) I like this for the Rams. They are legitimately a great QB away from consistent championship contention. Drafting a guy and waiting three years for him to develop is not what they need. They’re ready NOW. They had to pay as much as they did because they were also unloading Goff’s awful contract. Yes, the Rams are betting big on the present at the possible expense of the future, but so be it. They have two elite defensive players in their prime, quality running back and receiver rooms, and good coaching. Swing for the fences. I like it. Very happy for Stafford. Kind of rough for Goff. One last thing: I’d be so depressed if I was a Lions fan. They drove two all time greats (Sanders and Megatron) into early retirement, then wasted a legitimate franchise QB and traded him away. Woof. Edited January 31, 2021 by Logic 2 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 18 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said: I look at it more as an organization that can admit their mistakes. Goff is a below average NFL starter. He was complete trash as a rookie. Obviously the Rams have decided that they've found his ceiling and they can't get over it and he's not gonna take them where they want to go. But Man that guy is tough as nails and he played his ass off for them. Popped his thumb back into place and kept playing, had surgery on it and played a week later, won a playoff game with a broken thumb. Then gets slung out of town WITH two first round picks for a QB north of 30. Tough, tough business "what have you doe for me lately"? It's true Goff looked like trash as a rookie, but you gotta have the perspective that I've explained here before - the Rams offense under Fisher and Rob Boras as OC literally, made 3 QB look like total trash who were playing for the right to go to the NFC Championship or in Superbowls two successive years. That ain't all on Goff. It was a genuinely horrid, horrid offense. Three years from now, will we be posting about how Allen looked like trash as a rookie, played well in his 3rd season but just couldn't clinch the deal in a playoff because of gaps in his game? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 10 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: There's some real truth here. Goff isn't as bad as some have made outl, IMO. But it's in McVay's interest that people think Goff is largely to blame. That said, I think it's clear Stafford is better. But giving up 2 firsts will really limit what they can put around Stafford. Yes Goff is somewhere between the struggling rookie under Fisher and the guy who took his team to a SB. But the Rams have given up tons of picks these last few years to acquire other players. They are going to be hurting to surround Stafford with the weapons he'll need. Stafford has 3 losing playoff appearances. Did he make the players around him better? Maybe McVay can help him to his first playoff win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 18 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said: Now for my real take. This is probably a win for the Rams, but Detroit didn't do too bad for themselves. The Rams were very clearly sick of Goff. I know people are going to rip on Stafford, but the bottom line is he's an upgrade one Goff. The way we've seen the NFL go, QBs can play until they're 40 years old in the right system. Stafford will be 33 for the entirety of this upcoming season. He's moving to extremely friendly QB system, one that I feel propped Goff up. I don't think Goff was as bad as his rookie year, but he's also not as good as he's looked playing for McVay at times. Say more about what you see in Stafford as an upgrade on Goff. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 This may be an unpopular opinion, but I might be inclined to take Goff over Stafford, straight up. I think Goff will win as many games in Detroit as Stafford did the last two years...Awful trade for Rams 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 1 minute ago, mannc said: This may be an unpopular opinion, but I might be inclined to take Goff over Stafford, straight up. I think Goff will win as many games in Detroit as Stafford did the last two years...Awful trade for Rams Have you watched them both play football? Goff is no near the QB Stafford is. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiotAct Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 34 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said: And yet they regularly make the playoffs each year ... including going 10-6 this year and winning a post season game.. yeah, but eventually you’d think it would catch up to them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 3 minutes ago, mannc said: This may be an unpopular opinion, but I might be inclined to take Goff over Stafford, straight up. I think Goff will win as many games in Detroit as Stafford did the last two years...Awful trade for Rams Wouldn’t be surprised if Goff never even plays for Detroit. If Detroit thought anything of Goff they wouldn’t have asked for what they got from the Rams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y2zipper Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said: And maybe the Rams are worrying that the Chargers and their great young QB are poised to jump past them in the eyes of the LA sports fan. Herbert is going to be a star and McVay is going to feel the heat if he doesn't get top level production out of his QB. 1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said: And maybe the Rams are worrying that the Chargers and their great young QB are poised to jump past them in the eyes of the LA sports fan. Herbert is going to be a star and McVay is going to feel the heat if he doesn't get top level production out of his QB. I do think that the Rams operate with this type of interest grab in mind, but the Chargers basically don't have a fan base here and are a destination city for road teams and play in division with Mahomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelius Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) Unexpected. Saw a lot of people penciling Stafford in at San Francisco. I'm telling you the Niners QB prospects are looking bleak and they will not be good this year. Goff is Kirk Cousins lite. QB purgatory. Detroit's gonna get their QB of the future with one of those picks. Edited January 31, 2021 by Nelius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 So I did a bit of looking. Detroit has about $2M in cap assuming a $176M floor Stafford as trade leaves them with $19M in dead money, $14M savings vs. the $33M cap hit he had on the books this year. Goff will be due $27.5M in salary and roster bonus So they're actually OK. Stafford for Goff helps their cap a bit The Rams, on the other hand, are $31.2M in red ink on cap space. Goff as trade gives them $22M of dead cap and saves them $12.75M vs the $34.95M they had on the books BUT, Stafford will be due $27,5M in salary and big honkin' roster bonus from the Rams. So I think they're worse off and need $46M in cap They may need to have a fire sale. Think they'll move anyone we want? Info is from Overthecap and may be off here and there from Spotrac 5 minutes ago, Nelius said: Unexpected. Saw a lot of people penciling Stafford in at San Francisco. I'm telling you the Niners QB prospects are looking bleak and they will not be good this year. Goff is not the QB that Detroit deserves. Complete purgatory. I feel sorry for that fanbase. Not a Garoppolo fan? I don't see Goff as being the QB for an Anthony Lynn offensive system in Detroit. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: How many SB wins? How much better have they gotten in the last three years as they trade away those first round picks? How good is their cap situation as they trade away the chance to get good young players on rookie contracts for the chance to own older players on expensive second contracts? Winning one post-season game this year and not making the playoffs last year should not be seen as a good result for a team that made the Super Bowl in 2018. Most people will say it will be worth it if they win one SB... even if they then are a rabble for the next 5 years after... Personally I would prefer to go about ultimate success in a more conventional way like the Bills are doing as you set yourself up for a longer window... However... the Rams Management the past 4 years or so have shown that they aren’t idiots if you look at their record over that time compared to the rest of the League.. I think this move makes them better in 2021 than this year and the NFC is weak.. Does it make them better long term? No way but that’s the road they have chosen to go down.. Edited January 31, 2021 by Aussie Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelius Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Not a Garoppolo fan? I don't see Goff as being the QB for an Anthony Lynn offensive system in Detroit. Bigger fan of Jimmy G than Nick Mullens, that's for sure. I was assuming he's out of San Francisco but I'm looking into it now and opinions seem mixed as of about 12 hours ago, so maybe he'll stick. There was a ton of chatter in recent weeks that he was out and Stafford would land in San Francisco, so had they lost out on both it would have been a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 11 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: So I did a bit of looking. Detroit has about $2M in cap assuming a $176M floor Stafford as trade leaves them with $19M in dead money, $14M savings vs. the $33M cap hit he had on the books this year. Goff will be due $27.5M in salary and roster bonus So they're actually OK. Stafford for Goff helps their cap a bit The Rams, on the other hand, are $31.2M in red ink on cap space. Goff as trade gives them $22M of dead cap and saves them $12.75M vs the $34.95M they had on the books BUT, Stafford will be due $27,5M in salary and big honkin' roster bonus from the Rams. So I think they're worse off and need $46M in cap They may need to have a fire sale. Think they'll move anyone we want? I think they will play it like the Saints did the past 3 years and push that debt down the road. Their rationale would be having a "#1 defense" right now justifies going for it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) Did the Rams think they were trading the Texans for Watson in giving up all those picks? For Stafford...? Since the Lions now owe Goff more than $43 million in guaranteed money over the next two years... The Rams, 7 years with no first round pick... Anyway, I'm of the frame of mind that all other NFL teams are looking at Buffalo and saying how did we miss on this kid? The Jets...the Browns 2x...Denver...the NY Giants...Indy... Edited January 31, 2021 by Nihilarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaoulDuke79 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 2 hours ago, Captain_Quint said: 2 firsts and a 3rd. Seems like too much. Rams got fleeced. Stafford is an upgrade, but not worth that kind of bounty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Holmes Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 21 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: So I did a bit of looking. Detroit has about $2M in cap assuming a $176M floor Stafford as trade leaves them with $19M in dead money, $14M savings vs. the $33M cap hit he had on the books this year. Goff will be due $27.5M in salary and roster bonus So they're actually OK. Stafford for Goff helps their cap a bit The Rams, on the other hand, are $31.2M in red ink on cap space. Goff as trade gives them $22M of dead cap and saves them $12.75M vs the $34.95M they had on the books BUT, Stafford will be due $27,5M in salary and big honkin' roster bonus from the Rams. So I think they're worse off and need $46M in cap They may need to have a fire sale. Think they'll move anyone we want? Info is from Overthecap and may be off here and there from Spotrac Not a Garoppolo fan? I don't see Goff as being the QB for an Anthony Lynn offensive system in Detroit. Cooper Kupp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy Kevi Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Love what this does to Watson's value if he gets dealt into the AFCE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBear Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Holy crap. That's a ton to give up for a 32 year old QB who has never won a playoff game. Is anyone scared of Matthew Stafford? LMAO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 According to my math, that makes Josh worth 475.4 first round picks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 What is the love affair with Stafford. Goff last season had a typical Stafford-like season statistically. Their career TD%, and INT% is almost identical. One of these two has actually won playoff games. Stafford is not much of an improvement over Goff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Wow. Talk about an overpay. Stafford is already 32... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said: Holy crap. That's a ton to give up for a 32 year old QB who has never won a playoff game. Is anyone scared of Matthew Stafford? LMAO Agreed. Stafford had one truly great season, almost 10yrs ago now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 3 minutes ago, bobobonators said: What is the love affair with Stafford. Goff last season had a typical Stafford-like season statistically. Their career TD%, and INT% is almost identical. One of these two has actually won playoff games. Stafford is not much of an improvement over Goff. I was having a look at the 49ers and Seahawks message boards... they seem to think differently... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 3 minutes ago, bobobonators said: What is the love affair with Stafford. Goff last season had a typical Stafford-like season statistically. Their career TD%, and INT% is almost identical. One of these two has actually won playoff games. Stafford is not much of an improvement over Goff. I guess the theory is that Stafford has been held back by his crappy organization and that Goff has been propped up by the rest of the team and McVay. But I'm guessing the truth is somewhere in the middle for both players. I don't see this changing the Rams significantly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 I feel the Lions just robbed the rams. Great deal for Detroit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 57 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: Have you watched them both play football? Goff is no near the QB Stafford is. And yet Goff seems to be much better at winning football games... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 3 hours ago, Captain_Quint said: 2 firsts and a 3rd. Seems like too much. Way too much at this stage of the game for Stafford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 1 minute ago, mannc said: And yet Goff seems to be much better at winning football games... I will be watching him closely this year in Detroit to see how many games he wins there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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