Pete Carroll - Was he so stupid or just thought McD was????

[Billsfan1972]

A lot was made about Pete Carroll's incredibly dumb comment about prepping for the Bills run game and flabbergasted/surprised that the Bills threw against an historically bad defense with a great passing offense in perfect conditions on Sunday.

 

All week leading up I was opining that please McD go out and throw & impose your will on Seattle and not play it like I have too often seen of this team and hope for a tight, hard fought, ball control game.

 

Lo & behold they did exactly what they had to and Carroll's comments were laughable & mocked by many.

 

But I wonder if Carroll was actually thinking "McD will try to establish the run, and try and control the clock & field position, because that is who he is and a leopard can't change his spots"?

 

This weekend Seattle faces a similar dilemma vs. McVay & the Rams.  Mcvay too wants a balanced attack and of course they should be throwing 80% of thge time vs. Seattle.  Will be interesting to hear Carroll if McVay plays it like McD did and Carroll is again outcoached.

[Orlando Tim]

I take everything a pro coach says as 80% BS. They don't always lie but everything is with the hope of an edge.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Pete Carrol Goal Line stand on the 1 or 2 called a pass play that was intercepted to lose a SB. 

 

It’s just Pete. 

[ALLEN1QB]

Either way he's stupid. Probably thought we would use the KC game plan. I guess they learned from that disaster.

[Matt_In_NH]

Week to week gameplans sometimes work and sometimea do not.  His comment was. It the best after the game but he has earned a pass.   I mean I hope the bills can achieve the level of success he has.  And more!

[GunnerBill]

The Bills passing attack had slowed down weeks 5-8 and they had just come off their best rushing day of the season against New England. 

 

It wasn't completely stupid to expect them to run it. And regardless not sure it would have mattered. No matter how much you gameplan for a pass heavy game your DBs have to be able to cover the opponents WRs. And Seattle didn't have the horses to cover our guys.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

A lot was made about Pete Carroll's incredibly dumb comment about prepping for the Bills run game and flabbergasted/surprised that the Bills threw against an historically bad defense with a great passing offense in perfect conditions on Sunday.

 

All week leading up I was opining that please McD go out and throw & impose your will on Seattle and not play it like I have too often seen of this team and hope for a tight, hard fought, ball control game.

 

Lo & behold they did exactly what they had to and Carroll's comments were laughable & mocked by many.

 

But I wonder if Carroll was actually thinking "McD will try to establish the run, and try and control the clock & field position, because that is who he is and a leopard can't change his spots"?

 

This weekend Seattle faces a similar dilemma vs. McVay & the Rams.  Mcvay too wants a balanced attack and of course they should be throwing 80% of thge time vs. Seattle.  Will be interesting to hear Carroll if McVay plays it like McD did and Carroll is again outcoached.

 

I'm pretty sure that the Bills had some interesting intel about the Seahawks and Carroll - remember they have a coach and a player, Farwell and Jefferson, and they both got game balls.

 

I think Carroll's comment has been misinterpreted.  I don't think he was thinking the Bills won't pass - though he might have been looking at Allen's most recent games and his shoulder and saying "possible they won't pass much".  I think he meant he didn't expect them to abandon the run completely, so they felt they still had to defend against it.  And of course, he's right in the sense that if they did play to lock down the pass and to say "run it if you can", I'm sure that is what the Bills would have done.

[MJS]

23 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm pretty sure that the Bills had some interesting intel about the Seahawks and Carroll - remember they have a coach and a player, Farwell and Jefferson, and they both got game balls.

 

I think Carroll's comment has been misinterpreted.  I don't think he was thinking the Bills won't pass - though he might have been looking at Allen's most recent games and his shoulder and saying "possible they won't pass much".  I think he meant he didn't expect them to abandon the run completely, so they felt they still had to defend against it.  And of course, he's right in the sense that if they did play to lock down the pass and to say "run it if you can", I'm sure that is what the Bills would have done.

Yeah, was there anyone who thought the Bills would run so little? Even in heavy passing attacks teams run more often than that. So yeah, I think everyone was surprised that the Bills ran so little. Bills fans were certainly surprised. So I don't get why people are attacking his comment.

[Buddo]

Wouldn't surprise me either way tbh. Carroll isn't without a fairly large ego.

 

We've all seen coaches get gameplans way wrong - including McDermott and his crew. Adjusting them, and quickly, is what sets good coaches apart.

 

Carroll tried to adjust, but when he did, the Bills adjusted also, with the dump off to Singletary, and then the quick sideline pass to Brown, that he then ran through an empty middle of the field to close to a TD.

 

I suspect Carroll thought we were going to use the run to set up the pass, but we didn't bother, and they never had anyone in their secondary that could hang with our WRs.

 

Thankfully, we didn't try and out think ourselves, and just kept gashing them with the pass, as they couldn't stop it.

[BADOLBILZ]

57 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

The Bills passing attack had slowed down weeks 5-8 and they had just come off their best rushing day of the season against New England. 

 

It wasn't completely stupid to expect them to run it. And regardless not sure it would have mattered. No matter how much you gameplan for a pass heavy game your DBs have to be able to cover the opponents WRs. And Seattle didn't have the horses to cover our guys.

 

 

I think they were very caught off guard by John Brown being available more too.........he'd made just 1 significant play in the prior 6 weeks due to injury...........his big play ability/potential is a catalyst for the offense and it was also a breakout game for Gabriel Davis too.    Davis is among the league leaders now in separation numbers......averaging almost 4 yards of sep per catch.   

 

But Pete was also busy negotiating his contract extension last week and a road game of lesser significance against an AFC opponent may have had him looking ahead just a little to having to play the Rams and Cardinals in the subsequent 11 day period.  

[starrymessenger]

I don't think that preparing to defend against a Bills ball control/ time management offence involving the running game was stupid. If you had your druthers you'd probably want to keep the ball away from Russ and the league's best performing offence. As he himself admitted, his real problem was his inability to make the necessary in game adjustments. Like any good OC Daboll just kept doing what worked until the opposition showed they could stop you. I'd be more interested in knowing his views on why our D was able to dominate Russ & Co. I'm not surprised that Allen and his skill players were able to shred a bad back end. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

A lot was made about Pete Carroll's incredibly dumb comment about prepping for the Bills run game and flabbergasted/surprised that the Bills threw against an historically bad defense with a great passing offense in perfect conditions on Sunday.

 

All week leading up I was opining that please McD go out and throw & impose your will on Seattle and not play it like I have too often seen of this team and hope for a tight, hard fought, ball control game.

 

Lo & behold they did exactly what they had to and Carroll's comments were laughable & mocked by many.

 

But I wonder if Carroll was actually thinking "McD will try to establish the run, and try and control the clock & field position, because that is who he is and a leopard can't change his spots"?

 

This weekend Seattle faces a similar dilemma vs. McVay & the Rams.  Mcvay too wants a balanced attack and of course they should be throwing 80% of thge time vs. Seattle.  Will be interesting to hear Carroll if McVay plays it like McD did and Carroll is again outcoached.

maybe he didn’t think the bills would put the game completely in Allen’s hands. 

[hondo in seattle]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm pretty sure that the Bills had some interesting intel about the Seahawks and Carroll - remember they have a coach and a player, Farwell and Jefferson, and they both got game balls.

 

I think Carroll's comment has been misinterpreted.  I don't think he was thinking the Bills won't pass - though he might have been looking at Allen's most recent games and his shoulder and saying "possible they won't pass much".  I think he meant he didn't expect them to abandon the run completely, so they felt they still had to defend against it.  And of course, he's right in the sense that if they did play to lock down the pass and to say "run it if you can", I'm sure that is what the Bills would have done.

 

Agreed.

 

If you read up on Pete Carroll and listen him talk, particularly about defense, he's clearly an intelligent man.  I can't recall who exactly said this, but a DC was talking about how NFL DCs all run the same schemes - some get their squads to execute better or simply have better players.  He said there were just two guys in the NFL who were truly innovative - I think he used the word "genius" - Belichick and Carroll.  

 

That's why Carroll's remark about having a good plan for the Bills run attack so odd.  We ran hard at NE but have otherwise been a passing team.  I suspect that if the interview had been more in-depth, Carroll would have explained, like Hapless suggests, that he expected the Bills (after the recent success against the Pats) would be more balanced and not throw the ball almost exclusively.   

 

It was such an odd (and, admittedly, stupid sounding) statement, I'm surprised there weren't follow up questions at the presser.  

 

And like GunnerBill & Buddo both said, Carroll just didn't have DBs who could cover our WRs.  Scheme only goes so far.  A defense needs talent too.  

Edited November 14, 2020 by hondo in seattle

[NewEra]

Off topic.  Quinten Dunbar was the worst, most hobbled DB I’ve seen play in years.  We really should’ve targeted him on every play.  

[Nextmanup]

3 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

A lot was made about Pete Carroll's incredibly dumb comment about prepping for the Bills run game and flabbergasted/surprised that the Bills threw against an historically bad defense with a great passing offense in perfect conditions on Sunday.

 

All week leading up I was opining that please McD go out and throw & impose your will on Seattle and not play it like I have too often seen of this team and hope for a tight, hard fought, ball control game.

 

Lo & behold they did exactly what they had to and Carroll's comments were laughable & mocked by many.

 

But I wonder if Carroll was actually thinking "McD will try to establish the run, and try and control the clock & field position, because that is who he is and a leopard can't change his spots"?

 

This weekend Seattle faces a similar dilemma vs. McVay & the Rams.  Mcvay too wants a balanced attack and of course they should be throwing 80% of thge time vs. Seattle.  Will be interesting to hear Carroll if McVay plays it like McD did and Carroll is again outcoached.

I think the bolded is what was going on.

 

 

[Billsfan1972]

51 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

I don't think that preparing to defend against a Bills ball control/ time management offence involving the running game was stupid. If you had your druthers you'd probably want to keep the ball away from Russ and the league's best performing offence. As he himself admitted, his real problem was his inability to make the necessary in game adjustments. Like any good OC Daboll just kept doing what worked until the opposition showed they could stop you. I'd be more interested in knowing his views on why our D was able to dominate Russ & Co. I'm not surprised that Allen and his skill players were able to shred a bad back end. 

The point was McD did exactly what he should have against an historically bad pass defense.

 

Not doing that would have played into Seattle's hands and shown McD's coaching weaknesses.  

 

As said though I was very happy to see them do the right thing and hope to see it continue.

[Beerball]

3 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

A lot was made about Pete Carroll's incredibly dumb comment about prepping for the Bills run game and flabbergasted/surprised that the Bills threw against an historically bad defense with a great passing offense in perfect conditions on Sunday.

 

All week leading up I was opining that please McD go out and throw & impose your will on Seattle and not play it like I have too often seen of this team and hope for a tight, hard fought, ball control game.

 

Lo & behold they did exactly what they had to and Carroll's comments were laughable & mocked by many.

 

But I wonder if Carroll was actually thinking "McD will try to establish the run, and try and control the clock & field position, because that is who he is and a leopard can't change his spots"?

 

This weekend Seattle faces a similar dilemma vs. McVay & the Rams.  Mcvay too wants a balanced attack and of course they should be throwing 80% of thge time vs. Seattle.  Will be interesting to hear Carroll if McVay plays it like McD did and Carroll is again outcoached.

We're on to Arizona.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, ALLEN1QB said:

Either way he's stupid. Probably thought we would use the KC game plan. I guess they learned from that disaster.

 

I will say here, since no one else is: "stupid" is probably singularly poor description of a HC with 106-61 record in the last 11 years, winning seasons every year starting his 3rd year as HC, 7 playoff trips, 2 superbowl trips, and a superbowl win.

 

 

[Billsfan1972]

15 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I will say here, since no one else is: "stupid" is probably singularly poor description of a HC with 106-61 record in the last 11 years, winning seasons every year starting his 3rd year as HC, 7 playoff trips, 2 superbowl trips, and a superbowl win.

 

 

They have an historically bad past defense they have to protect against the pass first and foremost. How we could not have done that I don't understand? I guess they can take solace in having seven sacks.

 

But more to the point of the original thread, I thought it was more an indictment of how he thought McDermott would try and do.

Edited November 14, 2020 by Billsfan1972

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

4 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

A lot was made about Pete Carroll's incredibly dumb comment about prepping for the Bills run game and flabbergasted/surprised that the Bills threw against an historically bad defense with a great passing offense in perfect conditions on Sunday.

 

All week leading up I was opining that please McD go out and throw & impose your will on Seattle and not play it like I have too often seen of this team and hope for a tight, hard fought, ball control game.

 

Lo & behold they did exactly what they had to and Carroll's comments were laughable & mocked by many.

 

But I wonder if Carroll was actually thinking "McD will try to establish the run, and try and control the clock & field position, because that is who he is and a leopard can't change his spots"?

 

This weekend Seattle faces a similar dilemma vs. McVay & the Rams.  Mcvay too wants a balanced attack and of course they should be throwing 80% of thge time vs. Seattle.  Will be interesting to hear Carroll if McVay plays it like McD did and Carroll is again outcoached.

 

That was what the Bills came out and tried to do against KC another team with an explosive offense.  On top of that the Bills for the first time all year ran the ball well the week prior against NE.  Taking those two things together, would think the Bills would have come out running much more than they did.

[starrymessenger]

15 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

The point was McD did exactly what he should have against an historically bad pass defense.

 

Not doing that would have played into Seattle's hands and shown McD's coaching weaknesses.  

 

As said though I was very happy to see them do the right thing and hope to see it continue.

 

Where did I say that the Bills coaches failed to have a good gameplan on offence? The gameplan and doubtless the week's preparation (esp on D actually) was obviously excellent. And I very much doubt that Pete is unaware of the weakness in his secondary and of the opportunities that it presents to opposing offences. He actually had a plan for that. His plan was to pressure Allen and to some extent it actually worked. Hawks got the most sacks in a game for them in the last seven years. I mean would'nt you rather have Jamal Adams rush the passer than drop into coverage? I'll wait.

 But that wasn't enuf to make his gameplan successful and there is a reason for that too. The reason for that is despite the pressure Josh Allen was too good and had one of his best days ever. It's possible that Pete underestimated Allen but I could almost understand that because 1) the Bills offence in recent games had not been performing at that level and 2) this year Josh Allen's effectiveness tends to grow in leaps and bounds and when he takes a step back he is quite capable of following up with three steps forward. You can't always foresee that. On Sunday he was nothing short of elite. Pretty much in Mahomesland.

In his post game comments Pete mentioned his team's turnovers as an obvious deciding factor. Frankly I'm more interested in understanding how Sean and Frazier were able to pretty much stifle the Hawks offence, partly because I didn't expect that. As a Bills fan I know perfectly well what I can expect from Allen, his receivers and that O-line when they are firing on all cylinders. The rest of the league is learning but there is probably a lag in familiarity. That likely won't continue for long. 

You say you hope that Sean/Daboll  continue to do the right thing. So do I. Just bear in mind that doing the right thing does not always mean doing the same thing and one of the most encouraging things I see is that the Bills are developing an offence capable of implementing the gameplan that best addresses the strengths of the opposing D. If the trend continues they will be, week in and week out, one of the league's most dominant offences.

Pete Carroll ain't so dumb. He's a great coach who over the years has built one of the game's most successful franchises. Both he and Sean McD are good at what they do. Sometimes your plans work out according to your expectations and sometimes not. Stuff happens.

 

[ALLEN1QB]

47 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I will say here, since no one else is: "stupid" is probably singularly poor description of a HC with 106-61 record in the last 11 years, winning seasons every year starting his 3rd year as HC, 7 playoff trips, 2 superbowl trips, and a superbowl win.

 

 

He would have 2 Superbowl wins if he wasn't so STUPID!

Edited November 14, 2020 by ALLEN1QB

[Simon]

I was talking to myself during that game marveling at how thoughtful the Seahawks were to implement a gameplan that was so conducive to the Bills success.

I haven't watched any replays but fwiw, in realtime I thought their approach to that matchup was inarguably stupid.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 minutes ago, ALLEN1QB said:

He would have 2 Superbowl wins if he wasn't so STUPID!

 

That play is the SeaSnakes "Wide Right".  It should never have come down to that.  They had NE down by 10 points in the 4th Q

 

But since you bring it up:

https://www.nfl.com/news/seahawks-pete-carroll-explains-ill-fated-call-in-super-bowl-xli-0ap3000000467707

"Carroll saw a front stacked against a power run and a matchup he felt he could exploit with a short route against a rookie corner who had zero career interceptions. And he didn't want to run, get stopped short, burn his final timeout and be boxed into calling a pass on third down.

"You could run on 2nd down, call timeout, have to throw on third and score, or incompletion and have to choose (run or pass) on the final down," Carroll texted. "That's ball logic, not 2nd guess logic ... you never think you'll throw an interception there, just as you don't think you would fumble."

(...)

"As Carroll and I continued our late-night text conversation, I thought I knew what was coming -- until the coach made a point that, while not completely altering my perspective, at least got me thinking. He did it by referencing Wilson's 11-yard touchdown pass to Chris Matthews on a ball that was snapped with six seconds left in the first half, completing a five-play, 80-yard, 29-second drive (you read that correctly) that tied the game at 14 just before Katy Perry took over the field.

"The logic and reasoning (of the second-and-1 pass) is why you throw a TD pass with six seconds left in the half," Carroll said. "You've trained your players to do the right thing, and I trust them to do right."

 

There's a legit argument for KISS and using your best weapon with the game on the line, but it's not stupidity to see a defensive front stacked against the run and call for a matchup you think you can exploit.  In hindsight, it was probably the wrong call, but for people who know football, it wasn't "stupid".

[Niagara Dude]

5 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

A lot was made about Pete Carroll's incredibly dumb comment about prepping for the Bills run game and flabbergasted/surprised that the Bills threw against an historically bad defense with a great passing offense in perfect conditions on Sunday.

 

All week leading up I was opining that please McD go out and throw & impose your will on Seattle and not play it like I have too often seen of this team and hope for a tight, hard fought, ball control game.

 

Lo & behold they did exactly what they had to and Carroll's comments were laughable & mocked by many.

 

But I wonder if Carroll was actually thinking "McD will try to establish the run, and try and control the clock & field position, because that is who he is and a leopard can't change his spots"?

 

This weekend Seattle faces a similar dilemma vs. McVay & the Rams.  Mcvay too wants a balanced attack and of course they should be throwing 80% of thge time vs. Seattle.  Will be interesting to hear Carroll if McVay plays it like McD did and Carroll is again outcoached.

Sean has a reputation as wanting to play caveman football,  your guaranteed to lose coaching scared and he finally grew a pair.

[Buffalo716]

4 hours ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

Pete Carrol Goal Line stand on the 1 or 2 called a pass play that was intercepted to lose a SB. 

 

It’s just Pete. 

It's hard to run the ball on the goal line. Especially when the super bowl is on the line.  You can sell out and stop the run

 

It really wasn't a bad play, it was a better play by Malcolm Butler

Edited November 14, 2020 by Buffalo716

[DrDawkinstein]

5 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

A lot was made about Pete Carroll's incredibly dumb comment about prepping for the Bills run game and flabbergasted/surprised that the Bills threw against an historically bad defense with a great passing offense in perfect conditions on Sunday.

 

All week leading up I was opining that please McD go out and throw & impose your will on Seattle and not play it like I have too often seen of this team and hope for a tight, hard fought, ball control game.

 

Lo & behold they did exactly what they had to and Carroll's comments were laughable & mocked by many.

 

But I wonder if Carroll was actually thinking "McD will try to establish the run, and try and control the clock & field position, because that is who he is and a leopard can't change his spots"?

 

This weekend Seattle faces a similar dilemma vs. McVay & the Rams.  Mcvay too wants a balanced attack and of course they should be throwing 80% of thge time vs. Seattle.  Will be interesting to hear Carroll if McVay plays it like McD did and Carroll is again outcoached.

 

I'm sure a large part of it was Carroll underestimating how aggressive McD was willing to be. However, part of the reason for his comments is because a coach can't come out and say "Our Pass D stinks, the players we have can't execute or cover, it's a huge weakness for us, and these guys arent getting any better". Even if it's the truth.

 

Sometimes a coach just has to eat it in the media to protect his players. It's part of the job and why most coach-speak in pressers is predictable and worthless.

[BillsFan619]

While he maybe shouldn’t have made the comment, it’s being a bit overblown.

 

He may have thought we were going to have a similar strategy to the Chiefs to stop a high scoring Seahawks team. PC adjusting and the defense getting to JA more in the 2nd half shows that he’s not “stupid”. That said, like someone else said, we adjusted too (which was great).

 

I’m no PC fan but to Hapless’ point, with PC’s track record, can you really say that he’s “stupid”? Bone headed mistakes and decisions from time to time, sure. Poorly called games from time to time, sure. What coach doesn’t? 
 

“Stupid”? Nah.

Edited November 14, 2020 by BillsFan619

[RoyBatty is alive]

What is really stunning about Carroll is his total lack of in game awareness, whey so long to make any defensive adjustments...i  would "blame" him for the loss if I were a Seahwak fan.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

49 minutes ago, Simon said:

I was talking to myself during that game marveling at how thoughtful the Seahawks were to implement a gameplan that was so conducive to the Bills success.

I haven't watched any replays but fwiw, in realtime I thought their approach to that matchup was inarguably stupid.

you can watch it again tonight at 6 

 

[Billsfan1972]

45 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

Sean has a reputation as wanting to play caveman football,  your guaranteed to lose coaching scared and he finally grew a pair.

Which was the point of the thread.  I think Carroll expected the conservative, close to the vest McD.

 

Allen was not great weeks 5-8, but weather & game plan had a lot to do with it imo.  

 

Hope this is a sign of things to come.

 

 

[djp14150]

7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm pretty sure that the Bills had some interesting intel about the Seahawks and Carroll - remember they have a coach and a player, Farwell and Jefferson, and they both got game balls.

 

I think Carroll's comment has been misinterpreted.  I don't think he was thinking the Bills won't pass - though he might have been looking at Allen's most recent games and his shoulder and saying "possible they won't pass much".  I think he meant he didn't expect them to abandon the run completely, so they felt they still had to defend against it.  And of course, he's right in the sense that if they did play to lock down the pass and to say "run it if you can", I'm sure that is what the Bills would have done.

 

i agree...it’s about what the defense is showing.  The might have thought he will do 1st down predictable run, thrn be in 2nd and 3rd and long.

[DCbillsfan]

I thought the Bills would run more.  I even thought Allen would have some designed runs.  I listened to PCs post game presser later that night.  It seemed to me he was legitimately surprised about Bills not running much.  He was having a WTF moment.  It was priceless.  

[Sweats]

Carroll should have stayed at USC

[Buffalo03]

Well, this is a guy who thought it would be wiser to throw the ball from the one yard line on 2nd and goal in the Super Bowl instead of give it to Lynch with 3 tries left to pound it in....so yes, I guess you can say stupid 

[machine gun kelly]

56 minutes ago, Sweats said:

Carroll should have stayed at USC

He couldn’t.  You don’t remember the scandal?  He evaded it.  Reggie Bush took part of the hit.  He’s made a great career in Seattle, post USC.  It was a redemption to his earlier NFL career.  He’s a good coach and this is overblown.  They can’t really fix this until the off season.  Too bad as I like Wilson.  Heck of a guy.

[Sweats]

33 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

He couldn’t.  You don’t remember the scandal?  He evaded it.  Reggie Bush took part of the hit.  He’s made a great career in Seattle, post USC.  It was a redemption to his earlier NFL career.  He’s a good coach and this is overblown.  They can’t really fix this until the off season.  Too bad as I like Wilson.  Heck of a guy.

 

 

Ah yes, forgot about that....Carroll ran for the hills and got outta town ASAP.

[K-9]

5 minutes ago, Sweats said:

 

 

Ah yes, forgot about that....Carroll ran for the hills and got outta town ASAP.

Yep. Carroll was the first rat off the sinking ship.