The much maligned deterioration of the passing game...

[Billsfan1972]

3 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

I actually agree with this. There is more play selection that can be done to take advantage of a defense than just "taking what the defense gives you."

 

They should be dictating. Not letting the defense dictate. If you want them to get out of that look then you need to call plays that beat that look badly. 

And with Diggs, Brown, Beasley, Moss.... The Bills have the weapons.

 

They're playing maybe the worst defense e in the nfl, and are scared of Wilson vs beating their defense 

 

[billsfan_34]

16 hours ago, BillsMafi$ said:

Excuses excuses. Top QBs don’t need excuses and are consistently good...Mahomes, Brady, etc.

 

Allen isn’t there yet and who knows if he ever will e 

Allen is considered in the 5-7 range in the leavue. If we can win by running im all for it and vise versa.

[smuvtalker]

16 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think Allen has probably seen 7 drop back in coverage in multiple games by now.  The problem wasn't the 7 dropping back in coverage.  The problem was Allen "getting greedy" and forcing balls into coverage instead of taking what the D gave us, compounded by a complete and total lack of run game.

Spot on.  One of the things that I commented on in another thread was that one of the biggest things that has impressed me about Allen's big improvements this season has been the patience he has exhibited that he had very little of last year.  That was the first time this season that I observed him forcing balls into tight/double coverage, taking several unnecessary deep shots...I'm guessing he probably felt like he had to take things into his own hands and because we trailed most of the game he was just trying to do to much.  

 

And to be honest, I'm glad it happened, because since that game, I have rarely seen him trying to force balls into double coverage.  Even though his numbers don't reflect it, he has played well within himself, and Daboll's gameplan, and has looked just as impressive throwing for 240 yards and a TD then he did throwing for 400 and 4 TD's.

Edited November 7, 2020 by smuvtalker

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Bad weather isn’t an excuse at all

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

16 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

I think Allen is on his way to being great but you’re 100% exactly right about the constant excuse making around here, especially from the OP.

 

What are we even making excuses for? We are 6-2 and Allen is probably 80% responsible for that record if not more. 

[Buffalo Junction]

16 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Serious question: have you ever looked at the game logs of these undoubtedly "top QB"? 

 

Mahomes is at the top of the league right now and Allen isn't in his weight class (yet), but Mahomes, too, has days where he throws 2 INTs and 0 TDs and completes <55% of his passes and passes for less than 200 yds. 

 

Honest. 

 

He does.

 

Really.

 

Folks are under the impression that 300 yards and 3 TD is possible every week..... What they fail to realize is that it’s only possible every week if the QB is willing to play like Winston and Fitzpatrick. 

[BuffBillsForLife]

So really what you're saying is we need a dome

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And with Diggs, Brown, Beasley, Moss.... The Bills have the weapons.

 

They're playing maybe the worst defense e in the nfl, and are scared of Wilson vs beating their defense 

 

Win or lose this team should put up a lot of points this game. If they don't I will probably lose some faith. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

10 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

Win or lose this team should put up a lot of points this game. If they don't I will probably lose some faith. 

I really don’t think it’s going to play out this way.

 

I think you’re going to see a Seahawks defense suddenly look better than it has all season, and conversely I don’t understand this notion that the explosive offense is coming back.

 

We get thread after thread about how a zone defense has slowed the Bills dramatically, how are the Bills going to manufacture 30+ points again if that’s all it takes?

 

Who is our deep ball threat? John Brown? I think what you’ll see is a more efficient Allen slicing and dicing with underneath throws and a mixture of Singletary/Moss.

 

We aren’t the Seahawks, because Allen is not Russell Wilson and Diggs is not Metcalf. 
 

I don’t see the explosive offense coming back. I just don’t.

[Billsfan1972]

24 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I really don’t think it’s going to play out this way.

 

I think you’re going to see a Seahawks defense suddenly look better than it has all season, and conversely I don’t understand this notion that the explosive offense is coming back.

 

We get thread after thread about how a zone defense has slowed the Bills dramatically, how are the Bills going to manufacture 30+ points again if that’s all it takes?

 

Who is our deep ball threat? John Brown? I think what you’ll see is a more efficient Allen slicing and dicing with underneath throws and a mixture of Singletary/Moss.

 

We aren’t the Seahawks, because Allen is not Russell Wilson and Diggs is not Metcalf. 
 

I don’t see the explosive offense coming back. I just don’t.

Again here is just how bad the Seattle pass defense has been.....

 

Seattle has allowed 434 (Ryan), 397 (Newton), 461 (Dak), 312 (Fitz), 248 (Cousins), 360 (Murray), 299 (49'ers JV Offense).....  If McD isn't looking for 350 passing minimum (and Allen isn't exploiting it), that will tell you all you need.

Edited November 7, 2020 by Billsfan1972

[Matt_In_NH]

18 hours ago, BillsMafi$ said:

Excuses excuses. Top QBs don’t need excuses and are consistently good...Mahomes, Brady, etc.

 

Allen isn’t there yet and who knows if he ever will e 

 

Bolded is fake news

[Dr.Sack]

So next weeks game in a dome plus the relatively nice weather against Seattle should be a good barometer of how good our passing game is.

[Billsfan1972]

2 hours ago, Buffalo Junction said:

Folks are under the impression that 300 yards and 3 TD is possible every week..... What they fail to realize is that it’s only possible every week if the QB is willing to play like Winston and Fitzpatrick. 

Better be versus the 31st ranked defense in the NFL. The buffalo doesn't then they are in big trouble.

[Jauronimo]

20 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

One reason for the Bills drafting Allen was to have a guy with a strong arm who could make throws that cut through the wind.

 

I think Allen has probably seen 7 drop back in coverage in multiple games by now.  The problem wasn't the 7 dropping back in coverage.  The problem was Allen "getting greedy" and forcing balls into coverage instead of taking what the D gave us, compounded by a complete and total lack of run game.

 

I don't think there's a "slump" or a "regression", but Allen (and our offense) have to be able to adjust more quickly and if there's a gap to a team's game, other teams will exploit it

 

There are some offenses (Patriots for example) that are genuinely difficult to diagnose and throw against

 

We're not going to "get back to where we started" and have a huge offensive game unless 1) Allen's shoulder is reasonably healed and able to make those pinpoint throws again 2) the Seasnakes are so foolish as to man-up on our guys - which they may do if we run all over them or cut them to death with the short passing game

This. If we showed any ability to run the ball in weeks 5 through 7 teams would think twice about dropping everyone back in coverage and the run game could set up the pass.  

 

Allen' injury is in his non-throwing shoulder.  I think the biggest impact of the shoulder injury is it took the designed QB runs and scrambling plays out of the equation for a while.  Allen is a big part of the team run game and when hes making defenses pay with his legs thats another guy who isn't dropping into coverage.

[QLBillsFan]

A Bills QB will never have the best stats particularly with respect to completion %. It’s the wind not the cold. Be interesting to see data on top 10 ranked QB’s at Bills over past 20 years October on. What is the % completion drop for those QB’s. I would guess about 5%. Having said that, JA and receivers need to step up for this O to really carry the Bills. Healthy JB and DK would help. Every team deals with injuries so Davis Kraft whoever need to step up. 

[Scott7975]

3 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I really don’t think it’s going to play out this way.

 

I think you’re going to see a Seahawks defense suddenly look better than it has all season, and conversely I don’t understand this notion that the explosive offense is coming back.

 

We get thread after thread about how a zone defense has slowed the Bills dramatically, how are the Bills going to manufacture 30+ points again if that’s all it takes?

 

Who is our deep ball threat? John Brown? I think what you’ll see is a more efficient Allen slicing and dicing with underneath throws and a mixture of Singletary/Moss.

 

We aren’t the Seahawks, because Allen is not Russell Wilson and Diggs is not Metcalf. 
 

I don’t see the explosive offense coming back. I just don’t.

If our offense can't be explosive against this team it never will be. 

[Nextmanup]

22 hours ago, BillsMafi$ said:

Excuses excuses. Top QBs don’t need excuses and are consistently good...Mahomes, Brady, etc.

 

Allen isn’t there yet and who knows if he ever will e 

Great post and accurate, though very few around here are going to see it that way.

 

And can we all please stop blaming the Patriots game on terrible weather and wind?

 

Sal C. was adamant that it just wasn't a bad day weather-wise out at the stadium.

 

I wasn't there!  Sal was, and he's supposed to know something about football.   

 

 

 

[Old Coot]

A number of factors may account for the passing game not putting up the numbers it did early in the season.

 

1. Opponents now have plenty of tape on our passing game & likely use D's that take away the deep ball.  This is helped by the fact that our running game is anemic.

 

2. Injuries to our WR's -- Broen was out several games & he's the one who threatens to take the top off the D.

 

3. Maybe the weather.

 

 

[Billsfan1972]

28 minutes ago, Old Coot said:

A number of factors may account for the passing game not putting up the numbers it did early in the season.

 

1. Opponents now have plenty of tape on our passing game & likely use D's that take away the deep ball.  This is helped by the fact that our running game is anemic.

 

2. Injuries to our WR's -- Broen was out several games & he's the one who threatens to take the top off the D.

 

3. Maybe the weather.

 

 

Other teams & QB's adapty.  Stop making excuses.

 

Playing the WORST PASS D in the NFL.  Time to ram it down their throats!!!!

[Straight Hucklebuck]

7 hours ago, Hebert19 said:

Never said they are a write off.  I'm saying there are reasons for it.  Weather gameplan etc all factor in.  

Well if all it takes is throw a zone defense out there and the Bills go from 30 ppg to 19 ppg, then as efficient as Allen is within the confines of that defense, why wouldn’t every team do that from here on out? 
 

Is the counter to pound a team with the run and spin play action off that? 

[John from Riverside]

23 hours ago, BillsMafi$ said:

Excuses excuses. Top QBs don’t need excuses and are consistently good...Mahomes, Brady, etc.

 

Allen isn’t there yet and who knows if he ever will e 

Does he need to be?

[Straight Hucklebuck]

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Does he need to be?

Allen doesn’t have enough weapons right now is my conclusion.

 

Keep stacking WR on like you did in the draft. 
 

Get a Tight End in this offense. 
 

Fix the terrible Guard play. 
 

Get another Center who can play. 

[Thurman#1]

On 11/7/2020 at 10:32 AM, BillsMafi$ said:

Excuses excuses. Top QBs don’t need excuses and are consistently good...Mahomes, Brady, etc.

 

Allen isn’t there yet and who knows if he ever will e 

 

 

That's really not true. Top QBs like the rest, like all humans really, have ups and downs. Look at Mahomes against the Raiders this year. He barely got above 50%, and that is not the Mahomes we're used to seeing.

 

It's not that top QBs don't need excuses. It's that top QBs, top players, top performers in anything, don't use excuses. And Josh Allen hasn't. Doesn't mean we can't look at the ups and downs and speculate what's behind them.

 

It's a good point that the weather's been bad. I really hadn't put that together. But it's true. Having said that, the weather IMO isn't the main part of the problem, though it surely had some effect. The main problem is simply that in the cycle of football when you're doing well, people will defense you differently till you prove you can hande it. They're doing that to Allen and he's still playing very well but short passes don't look as transcendently awesome as what he was able to do against the defenses he faced the first four weeks.

 

One of Allen's problems has been consistency. Teams are going to force him to try to maintain drives through a lot of plays, and to be successful at that, he'll need consistency at a very high level.

Edited November 8, 2020 by Thurman#1

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Very small miscues can completely change the tone of a player and teams season. Just look at the last two wins All and the Bills squeaked out. 

 

Jets Game

Gabe Davis- lines up incorrectly negates TD pass

Kroft- Stumbles over his own feet, negates TD pass

 

Patriots Game

Gabe Davis-  game sealing TD pass goes through his hands. 

 

The Bills still won both of these games. Allen still played well in both of these games. But if these three plays end in TD's which is more likely than not if they were played 10 times each then the narrative on the Bills and Allen is quite a bit different over the last two games.

 

[Nextmanup]

15 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Allen doesn’t have enough weapons right now is my conclusion.

 

Keep stacking WR on like you did in the draft. 
 

Get a Tight End in this offense. 
 

Fix the terrible Guard play. 
 

Get another Center who can play. 

One thing is for sure.  The last place most of this board will look to explain why the passing game isn't as good as it could be is Josh Allen.  

 

They will blame the proverbial dog that ate the homework before they'll conclude it might be Josh that's the problem.

 

Let's hope the people who actually run the team aren't limited by the same psychological weaknesses.

 

 

[Beast]

Plain and simple the opposition has taken away the Bills crossing routes and Daboll hasn't adjusted. In the beginning if the year the Bills were killing defenses with those routes.

 

Allen has been fine but Daboll needs to come up witg something else. His scheme was figured out quickly and he hasn't adjusted.

Edited November 8, 2020 by Beast

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

4 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

One thing is for sure.  The last place most of this board will look to explain why the passing game isn't as good as it could be is Josh Allen.  

 

They will blame the proverbial dog that ate the homework before they'll conclude it might be Josh that's the problem.

 

Let's hope the people who actually run the team aren't limited by the same psychological weaknesses.

 

 

 

I think that's unfair to Allen. Can he play better? Sure, you can say that about every player on every team though. Big picture is we rarely look at any game this season and say, man our QB really didn't show up today and was part of the problem. Last year, we could legitimately make a case that Allen held us back in some games. That's really not the case this year. I don't think that's Bills fans being homers. 

[Billsfan1972]

7 minutes ago, Beast said:

Plain and simple the opposition has taken away the Bills crossing routes and Daboll hasn't adjusted. In the beginning if the year the Bills were killing defenses with those routes.

 

Allen has been fine but Daboll needs to come up witg something else. His scheme was figured out quickly and he hasn't adjusted.

That is what you pay coaches to do.  You don't think every good offense with a great QB figures these things out?

 

Yes keeping pace with weeks 1-4 was asking a lot.  To drop off a cliff and being 4 weeks straight, points to the coaching & game plan.

 

Two of the worst defenses the next two weeks.  If the Bills don't throw for 350, then there is an issue.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

24 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

One thing is for sure.  The last place most of this board will look to explain why the passing game isn't as good as it could be is Josh Allen.  

 

They will blame the proverbial dog that ate the homework before they'll conclude it might be Josh that's the problem.

 

Let's hope the people who actually run the team aren't limited by the same psychological weaknesses.

Well we’ve seen in other situations around the league that the backup QB is not better. 
 

So the answer is not on this roster if it’s not Allen. 
 

And at 6-2 who is coming in the Draft to take Allen’s spot?

 

Regardless, we know that Beane and McDermott are not moving off Allen. He’ll have his 5th year option picked up and he will be the Quarterback.

 

The team wins too much for him not to be. 
 

So keep adding players around Allen. 

[JoPoy88]

22 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

What are we even making excuses for? We are 6-2 and Allen is probably 80% responsible for that record if not more. 

Exactly.

[Locomark]

Excuses gone today ..Brown and Knox back, weather fine. Running game works again.  If our offense sucks it mean that Daboll and Allen had 20 plays they loved and now the rest of the league knows what those plays are and how to stop them. Time for Josh to play with confidence and not hold the ball. Time for Diggs and a brown to dominate and time for a TE that gets more than 30 yards a game. It’s also a game to go for 4th downs and not kick FGs. 

[bigduke6]

Josh hasnt been the same QB throwing the ball since he injured his shoulder.  

[Scott7975]

18 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Great post and accurate, though very few around here are going to see it that way.

 

And can we all please stop blaming the Patriots game on terrible weather and wind?

 

Sal C. was adamant that it just wasn't a bad day weather-wise out at the stadium.

 

I wasn't there!  Sal was, and he's supposed to know something about football.   

 

 

 

 

Who is blaming weather on the Pats game?  Allen threw the ball 18 times and had a very good 8.6 ypa.  The gameplan was clearly to run the football.

 

We won the damn game.

1 hour ago, Nextmanup said:

One thing is for sure.  The last place most of this board will look to explain why the passing game isn't as good as it could be is Josh Allen.  

 

They will blame the proverbial dog that ate the homework before they'll conclude it might be Josh that's the problem.

 

Let's hope the people who actually run the team aren't limited by the same psychological weaknesses.

 

 

 

Actually what is for sure is that people will look to blame one thing or another instead of realizing that it is everything as a whole.  Allen makes mistakes, as does every QB in the league.  The rest of the offense makes mistakes... receivers dropping balls, penalties, Daboll calls pretty ***** at times, jail break oline at times.  They all add up.  No one thing is to blame.

Edited November 8, 2020 by Scott7975

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

Hmmm maybe it actually was the weather and the way opposing defenses were playing us 🤣🤣 

[Nester]

Or his shoulder healed. Was surprised to hear the announcers say he was wearing a harness under his jersey in past games

[Doc]

Yup, it was the injury/harness. 

[Buffalo Boy]

Ugg

[Hebert19]

Yup.  Passing offense is dead.  Ha

[warrior9]

4 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

One thing is for sure.  The last place most of this board will look to explain why the passing game isn't as good as it could be is Josh Allen.  

 

They will blame the proverbial dog that ate the homework before they'll conclude it might be Josh that's the problem.

 

Let's hope the people who actually run the team aren't limited by the same psychological weaknesses.

 

 

This post aged well. 

[78thealltimegreat]

7 minutes ago, warrior9 said:

This post aged well. 

Indeed 🙄