The End of the Lamar Jackson Era

[WideNine]

6 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said:

 

I found this paragraph to be a bit homer-ish....."He can't throw like Josh"?  Allen has a "better" arm?  What throw does Josh make that Mahomes can't or doesn't make?  ....Better Arm...both can launch it.  if we are talking arm strength....they both have elite arm strength.  ....then last sentence...LOL...Mahomes "can't learn to throw like Josh"  ....uh....OH NO!  my MVP, and Super Bowl MVP apparently can't throw like Josh Allen....man...what a bummer!

 

 

Most offensive coordinators are able to dial up some plays where guys end up open.  Daboll has his share of these.  Mahomes often finds and hits these targets when they are "wide open"  He also hits guys when they aren't wide open and throws them open etc....it's good when the QB does both.

 

 

Uh......  Josh Allen 16 of 39 TD passes, inside 10 yards...that's 41%   Lamar, 21/46 45%  not exactly the stat you want to be trying to use here.

 

 

The blueprint is out there.  You must get pressure on Mahomes with your front 4 consistantly, and you give a bunch of different looks with man/zone combos that make mahomes have to process long enough for your pass rush to move him.  The Chargers are a team that has given us (KC) fits with this for years.  The 49ers were able to do it in the SB...KC still won....but that's how you slow Mahomes. 

 

I haven't seen enough of you guys to know yet, but if your front 4  can't get it done....that's not good for you.

 

 

Happy Days makes an astute observation here.  Mahomes was 16/19 with 3 TDS and something like 250 yards VS the Blitz against hte Ravens.  Blitzing mahomes is a BAD idea.  he kills blitzs.  You need the front 4 to win on their own.

 

 

 

KC more than doubled them in yardage etc.  While the ravens did come withing 7 points in the 3rd Q when the score became 27-20, KC had some miscues that should have opened up a bigger score....missed XP, missed FG, that's 4 points, fumbled inside 20 on first drive of Q3.  Didn't convert on a 3rd and 1, then 4th and 1, TO on downs.  Score was closer than actual play indicated.  KC D only gave up 13 points.    Same thing last year.  KC won 33-25.  KC was up 33-10 going into Q 4.  Game was never in doubt....Balt got garbage time TD including last TD with like 30 seconds left in the game....and there were 2 4th downs in the 4th Q where Lamar litteraly was being sacked and just lobbed up prayers...and they caught both.....score was much closer than the game actually was. 

 

It wasn't that close.

 

Was kind of wondering when you were going to make an appearance.

 

 

 

[DJB]

12 hours ago, Golden Goat said:

How good did it feel to type that? Was it weird? 

 

 

Felt like this reading it. 

[atlbillsfan1975]

17 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said:

 

From Baltimore Sun this month: 

This year, Jackson’s AFC-leading accuracy belies the difficulty of his throws: According to the NFL’s Next Gen Stats, he’s throwing the ball farther downfield than ever before (9.4 intended air yards per pass, No. 9 overall). Despite ranking No. 29 in the NFL in attempts, according to Pro-Football-Reference, Jackson ranks No. 13 in completed air yards. As a runner and a passer, the Ravens refuse to coddle him.

Jackson’s precociousness as a runner and leader has been well documented. But even some of the NFL’s most decorated passers didn’t find a groove as quickly as he has. Jackson’s accuracy through his first 24 starts (65%) trumps that of Tom Brady (64.8%), Aaron Rodgers (63.4%), Russell Wilson (63%) and Drew Brees (59.7%).

https://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bs-sp-ravens-lamar-jackson-accuracy-20200924-wjepc7fzcbdzhn6stovijrogge-story.html

 

How about some video? Tell me how this guy is a limited passer and how he can't make plays from the pocket. 

 

From Jay Glazier this offseason: 

"He works his butt off, so I think he's going to always stay a step ahead. The thing not talked about enough with Jackson is his jump in accuracy. He worked so hard to get more accurate. It wasn't a little more accurate—it was a lot more accurate. Coaches around the league marvel about his accuracy and how much he jumped last year. He has gone through the ceiling because of his work ethic."

 

Put some RESPECT on this guys name. 

 

Eh, we will see. So far Lamar has average passing numbers and great rushing numbers for a QB. Historically players with Lamar’s skill set don’t win it all. The only player I know of to drastically change his style of play from a runner to a passer is Michael Vick once he went to Philly and played for Andy Reid. 

[Green Lightning]

11 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

I agree with the point about pocket passing. I think that's pretty obvious.

 

But Jackson is another Vick. I don't think his era is over until he gets injured or too old.

Pretty much where I am on Lamarr. You will have success with him until he pops a knee. I don't think you win a SB with him. I disagree with Shaw66 on Kyler Murray. That's a talented kid with a live arm. Short, yes but he can make all the throws and he's mobile as Hell. Smart to boot. He looks to have a nice career.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Penfield45 said:

This might be one of the dumbest threads ever created in this site 

 

Oh Heckin Noes.  Not even Top Twenty

 

 

[Rc2catch]

1 hour ago, Zerovoltz said:

 

 

 

Uh......  Josh Allen 16 of 39 TD passes, inside 10 yards...that's 41%   Lamar, 21/46 45%  not exactly the stat you want to be trying to use here.

 

 

What does Allen have to do with anything I said? Allen is not an MVP nor are we discussing if Allen can maintain playing at an MVP level. 
 

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, Zerovoltz said:

 

I found this paragraph to be a bit homer-ish....."He can't throw like Josh"?  Allen has a "better" arm?  What throw does Josh make that Mahomes can't or doesn't make?  ....Better Arm...both can launch it.  if we are talking arm strength....they both have elite arm strength.  ....then last sentence...LOL...Mahomes "can't learn to throw like Josh"  ....uh....OH NO!  my MVP, and Super Bowl MVP apparently can't throw like Josh Allen....man...what a bummer!

 

 

 

Zero -  I think I pretty much agree with you.   You maybe misunderstood what I said, but I didn't say it very well.    Here's what I meant:

 

Mahomes is a great thrower, I agree.  Way above league average.  By better arm I meant that Allen can deliver the ball with more velocity and with less physical exertion than Mahomes can.  He just has a stronger arm.  Doesn't mean Mahomes has a bad arm.  He doesn't.  But there are throws that Allen can make physically with less arm motion than Mahomes can.  I think that's true, and that's an advantage for Allen.  

 

Then I said, what I think is also true and I'm sure you agree with, that Mahomes is clearly the better field general.  He runs what's probably a more complicated offense flawlessly.   He doesn't get flustered.  He's way ahead of Allen there; I think Allen's already pretty good at it, but Mahomes was better as a rookie than Allen is now.   

 

Then, what I meant by my conclusion was that it's possible for Allen, I expect Allen, to continue to improve as a field general - that he'll be able to get as good at it as Mahomes is, but Mahomes will never be able to flip the ball downfield with pace and accuracy the way Allen is throwing.  

 

In any event, I wasn't trying to say Allen is as good as Mahomes.  For one season, I'd take Mahomes in a heartbeat.  But I will say that I have a lot of confidence that within the next few years Allen will be a premier QB mentioned along with two or three others.   I expect Mahomes will continue to be one of those.  

 

Thanks for responding. 

[Putin]

14 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

The Ravens’ offense just isn’t designed to play from behind.  They can’t score a ton of points in a hurry, that’s not how they’re built.  Once they got in a hole last night it was all but over.

How many comeback wins does Jackson have ? I don’t believe they won a single game when they were behind !!

[Putin]

1 hour ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Eh, we will see. So far Lamar has average passing numbers and great rushing numbers for a QB. Historically players with Lamar’s skill set don’t win it all. The only player I know of to drastically change his style of play from a runner to a passer is Michael Vick once he went to Philly and played for Andy Reid. 

Micheal Vick was is a 100 times better passer then Lamar is 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

14 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I've said since the beginning of the year that I'm not buying the Lamar Jackson hype, and I'm not buying the Kyler Murray hype, either.   I know they are really special athletes, and they're a couple of the best running backs in the league, but they limit their offenses.  

 

The problem with Jackson is related to something McDermott (and plenty of other coaches) say all the time:  You have to force the opponent to defend the entire field - sideline to sideline and line of scrimmage to the goal line.  The reason is simple:  If you can threaten to strike anyplace on the field, the defense has to spread out to defend all those places.  When the defense spreads out, they create holes for the offense to attack. 

 

You could see the problem almost immediately last night.  One on side of the ball was a team, the Chiefs, that is perhaps the best in the league at attacking the whole field.  They will hurt you anyplace you leave unprotected.  The Ravens started out playing the game no more than 30 yards downfield, and as the game progress, they didn't even threaten that deep.  The defense tightened and tightened.  Sure, Jackson kept getting himself some nice runs here and there, but they essentially give up the ability to get 100-200 passing downfield to get an extra 50 or 100 out of Jackson.  That's a bad trade.  

 

The other thing that was apparent is that to be a premier QB, you MUST be able to stand in the pocket and direct the attack.  You can't run an effective, all-over-the-field passing attack from outside the hash marks.  Why?  Because you can't threaten deep passes down the right side if your QB is standing outside the left hashmark.  (Well, you can if your QB is Josh Allen, but that's something else.)   Your QB has to be able to stand in, see the entire field, make decisions, and then make throws.   Jackson couldn't do that last night.  If he's going to make it, he has a lot of work to do as a pocket passer.   But even that may not be enough, because if you're going to feature your QB running the ball, you need your receiver to stay shallow to block for him.  So in your regular offense, your receivers aren't running deep routes, so the deep threat isn't there.  

 

It was all pretty obvious watching last night.   Mahomes stands in the pocket, makes decisions and makes throws.   Jackson doesn't.  Jackson will not be a premier QB if he doesn't learn to play that traditional QB game.  He's way, way behind Josh Allen in developing those skills.  Allen plays much more like Mahomes than like Jackson.  McBeane have always said he was going to be a pocket passer.  They've been working on making him one since he arrived in Buffalo.  Baltimore went down the other road, building an offense that plays to Jackson's strengths, but that is an offense that by definition is limited.  I think they're wasting their time.   Jackson will hurt some teams sometimes, he'll force your defense to play a different style than their used to, but at the end of the season, Baltimore's offense will limit their ability to win big games.  

 

Finally, to bring it back to Allen and the Bills, Mahomes wasn't doing anything last night that Allen doesn't do.  Allen has the better arm, clearly, Mahomes is more poised and more able to attack weaknesses consistently - that's clear too.  What's so encouraging is that Allen can learn to be a great field general, but good as Mahomes arm is, he can't learn to throw like Josh.  

 

Bills are heading down the right road. 

 

 

 

 

 

Watching the game last night, I can't say this thought didn't also go through my head too.  But I also think one game is way to early to say this is the end.  He did win the MVP last year and looked good ***** it.  Have defenses figured him out, maybe.  His style may work against weak teams, but when facing a team as good, he's in trouble.  Will be interesting to see how the Balt. NE game goes whenever they play.  In many ways he's like Allen except without the arm.

 

 

[bobobonators]

I like reading your weekly recaps Shaw, but this one is kinda nutty. 
 

The kid is 23yrs old, has a 21-4 record in the NFL, and just won an MVP last year. And youre writing about his demise? 
 

Tough crowd. 

Edited September 30, 2020 by bobobonators

[Richard Noggin]

19 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Zero -  I think I pretty much agree with you.   You maybe misunderstood what I said, but I didn't say it very well.    Here's what I meant:

 

Mahomes is a great thrower, I agree.  Way above league average.  By better arm I meant that Allen can deliver the ball with more velocity and with less physical exertion than Mahomes can.  He just has a stronger arm.  Doesn't mean Mahomes has a bad arm.  He doesn't.  But there are throws that Allen can make physically with less arm motion than Mahomes can.  I think that's true, and that's an advantage for Allen.  

 

Then I said, what I think is also true and I'm sure you agree with, that Mahomes is clearly the better field general.  He runs what's probably a more complicated offense flawlessly.   He doesn't get flustered.  He's way ahead of Allen there; I think Allen's already pretty good at it, but Mahomes was better as a rookie than Allen is now.   

 

Then, what I meant by my conclusion was that it's possible for Allen, I expect Allen, to continue to improve as a field general - that he'll be able to get as good at it as Mahomes is, but Mahomes will never be able to flip the ball downfield with pace and accuracy the way Allen is throwing.  

 

In any event, I wasn't trying to say Allen is as good as Mahomes.  For one season, I'd take Mahomes in a heartbeat.  But I will say that I have a lot of confidence that within the next few years Allen will be a premier QB mentioned along with two or three others.   I expect Mahomes will continue to be one of those.  

 

Thanks for responding. 

 

This is a difficult debate to quantify. I feel like Mahomes and Allen have essentially the same degree of raw arm talent, but that Mahomes has spent years refining that 3/4, abbreviated motion that we're suddenly seeing out of Allen. The same kind of motion we see out of Rodgers when he's throwing darts. Something about it allows for a virtuosic combination of touch/arc, velocity, and quick release that conventional (over-the-top, sporting-L) throwers cannot match. 

[Shaw66]

2 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

This is a difficult debate to quantify. I feel like Mahomes and Allen have essentially the same degree of raw arm talent, but that Mahomes has spent years refining that 3/4, abbreviated motion that we're suddenly seeing out of Allen. The same kind of motion we see out of Rodgers when he's throwing darts. Something about it allows for a virtuosic combination of touch/arc, velocity, and quick release that conventional (over-the-top, sporting-L) throwers cannot match. 

Yeah Mahomes has that. But Allen has this overhand flick that Mahomes can't match.  He can get the ball downfield effortlessly, and that's important i. The pocket under pressure.  

 

I think those two stand out above everyone else, today.  Rodgers a few years ago, but not so much now. .  

[TheElectricCompany]

I want to see some of these throws that Allen can make, but Mahomes can't. 

If there is one thing Mahomes has done in 3 seasons, its rewritten the book of what throws are possible. 

And to get back to Lamar, he's got a gorgeous deep flick pass.

 

Edited September 30, 2020 by TheElectricCompany

[Zerovoltz]

2 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

What does Allen have to do with anything I said? Allen is not an MVP nor are we discussing if Allen can maintain playing at an MVP level. 
 

 

I assume you are bashing Lamar for throwing a "high" number of short TD passes....most TD passes are short....becaus they are easier...if you look at all QB's they all have many more short TD throws than long ones.

[Putin]

Allen still has way to go till he reaches his ceiling and when he does ( oh man oh boy ) 

[mannc]

8 hours ago, Green Lightning said:

Pretty much where I am on Lamarr. You will have success with him until he pops a knee. I don't think you win a SB with him. I disagree with Shaw66 on Kyler Murray. That's a talented kid with a live arm. Short, yes but he can make all the throws and he's mobile as Hell. Smart to boot. He looks to have a nice career.

Correct on Murray...He’s more Russ Wilson than Lamar Jackson.

[atlbillsfan1975]

7 hours ago, Putin said:

Micheal Vick was is a 100 times better passer then Lamar is 

If you are referring to Vick’s time in Philly, then yes he was a much improved passer. Michael threw the ball similar to Lamar for the first 6 years he was in Atlanta. Lots of force, very little touch.

[HOUSE]

I went to the Ravens board and I can't find anything on this subject 🤪

[BurpleBull]

This thread is kinda ridiculous.

 

Mahomes doesn't need his arm to be any better than it already is, he's already won a Super Bowl and been named league MVP all before the age of 25; who cares if Allen's arm strength rates out at 99 in Madden and Mahomes a 98?

 

Don't see the point of this diatribe against the league's other MVP...almost reads like it was put together by an impassioned, semi-disgruntled Ravens' fan with the intent of e-mailing it to Ozzie Newsome and the Baltimore front office to voice his concern...but it really reads like Lamar Jackson's success and the very idea of Kyler Murray succeeding strikes a special nerve in you.

[GunnerBill]

The point @Zerovoltz makes about not blitzing Mahomes is a good one. You don't blitz the best guys because as soon as you do they know in a nano second where that leaves a coverage hole and they get to their hot. Brady was a guy you never really should blitz. Rex actually had success with it a couple of times in his early Jets reign but he was aboyut the only guy and Rex used that same gameplan a dozen more times and got shredded. Rodgers is a guy you don't blitz, Brees and Manning the same.... Mahomes in that category too.

 

Think it is an area where both Allen and Jackson both need to get better still.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

10 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Well, I agree with you, but I also understand the hype.  He's a spectacular runner, and he throws well, at least the passes he throws.  And he's a great competitor.  I just don't see how that style wins, long-term.  It's too one dimensional.

 

10 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I agree with that.  He is an amazing athlete, fun to watch, and runs Romans offense really well.  As a passer though, he just isn't there.  I also agree it wont win long term against teams able to contain the run and take the middle of the field away.

 

 passing 208.5 ypg in 2019.   192 ypg in 2020.  Those are Tyrod Taylor #'s

 

IMO The hype was because he scored TD's.  To open players because of spies and or a blown play by the defense.  

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

9 hours ago, TheElectricCompany said:

Jackson’s precociousness as a runner and leader has been well documented. But even some of the NFL’s most decorated passers didn’t find a groove as quickly as he has. Jackson’s accuracy through his first 24 starts (65%) trumps that of Tom Brady (64.8%), Aaron Rodgers (63.4%), Russell Wilson (63%) and Drew Brees (59.7%).

 

Stats... 

How many passes?   15 - 20 per game verses 30 - 40?     This is the Tyrod argument all over again.  Less passes to Wide Open players.  

The odds are then the more you pass the greater the chance of a non catch.  

 

[BobbyC81]

21 hours ago, H2o said:

I was watching Mahomes last night and you see the things he does that separates him from Allen. When he runs he doesn't take hits. He slides or he gets out of bounds. When a play is busted he will throw the ball away and live to fight another down. A lot of the throws Allen is making this year is just like Mahomes, but he needs to preserve himself by not taking the hits when he can and throw the ball away when necessary because it's not the end of the world. This will be the next step in the maturation of Allen. 

 

On Lamar? He will be a QB in Baltimore for as long as his body holds up and as long as Roman is the OC. He will put up gaudy numbers at times. The fact of the matter remains the same, make him beat you with his arm by having to stay contained and forcing him to throw outside the numbers. He can't right now. Let him run and get some yards on the ground. It's not going to beat the good teams. Pressure him and force him to make quick reads while stepping up into the pocket. He can't beat you that way right now. Keep him from scrambling to his right because that's where most of his improvisational throws come from. We did a good job of containing him last year outside of the one busted coverage where Hurst got the TD. The Titans forced him to try to comeback using his arm and he faltered. The Chiefs last night followed a similar blueprint. Even with all of that, I still see Lamar and Josh as head and shoulders above the rest as the top 2 QB's from that draft class. They are definitely the two most exciting as well.  

Another thing I noticed about Mahomes is that he doesn’t panic.  He’s a real cool customer.  I think Josh can eventually get there, too.

[Rick 'r Mortis]

1 hour ago, ColeB said:

Another thing I noticed about Mahomes is that he doesn’t panic.  He’s a real cool customer.  I think Josh can eventually get there, too.

Or get rattled, for what I can remember. Josh clearly got rattled against the Rams.

[Rc2catch]

7 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

 

I assume you are bashing Lamar for throwing a "high" number of short TD passes....most TD passes are short....becaus they are easier...if you look at all QB's they all have many more short TD throws than long ones.

No I think you’re missing the point I was making. I never “bashed” Lamar. When people defend his passing game they tend to point out how many passing touchdowns he has, and it’s kind of a misleading stat because a very large portion of those come inside the 10 yard line. He’s not leading the team down the field with his arm, this is why we see him struggle when they’re behind or in pressure games when defenses are more serious. His season was magical last year, and we’ll probably never see that great of a season from anyone again. He was never going to maintain that level of play. It’s not sustainable in the nfl. He’s coming back down to earth and he’ll hang in the 20-30 range as a passer. Add in his running threat and he’s a top 15 quarterback in the league. Doubtful that he’s ever in the talks for mvp again unless his passing improves a bunch. It can, others have improved. I don’t think it will though as long as Roman is there. 

[TheElectricCompany]

1 hour ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

 

 This is the Tyrod argument all over again. 

 

 

Oh my....LOL

I think it is clear you are seeing exactly what you want to see. 

Stats, accolades and highlights be damned. 

[BobbyC81]

10 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

No I think you’re missing the point I was making. I never “bashed” Lamar. When people defend his passing game they tend to point out how many passing touchdowns he has, and it’s kind of a misleading stat because a very large portion of those come inside the 10 yard line. He’s not leading the team down the field with his arm, this is why we see him struggle when they’re behind or in pressure games when defenses are more serious. His season was magical last year, and we’ll probably never see that great of a season from anyone again. He was never going to maintain that level of play. It’s not sustainable in the nfl. He’s coming back down to earth and he’ll hang in the 20-30 range as a passer. Add in his running threat and he’s a top 15 quarterback in the league. Doubtful that he’s ever in the talks for mvp again unless his passing improves a bunch. It can, others have improved. I don’t think it will though as long as Roman is there. 

It’s similar to how it was for Michael Vick.  Yes, he had a strong arm but it’s not like he was consistently hitting deep throws.  His running ability is what worried defensive coordinators.  When he had an injury and lost a step, he was less effective.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

10 hours ago, TheElectricCompany said:

 

Oh my....LOL

I think it is clear you are seeing exactly what you want to see. 

Stats, accolades and highlights be damned. 

I see what I see because it’s the truth 

 

 

[stuvian]

I thought Harbaugh and the Ravens coaching staff called a terrible game on both sides of the ball Monday. Jackson limited himself to the middle of the field between the hash marks about thirty yards deep. That can be easily game planned away by a good coach or DC. His repertoire looked really limited. I think he has all the passing talent in the world but it's up to his coaches to develop his game so as to keep defenses honest. 

[Jerome007]

What thing is for sure, you do NOT want to get behind against the Ravens. Not on defense anyway, as it will HURT. They must be one of the most bruising offense ever. Playing WRs for them would suck, but playing OL or TE must be fun.

 

I get the original point though. Trading 100-200 yards of pass offense for an extra 50-100 by Jackson/RBs ain't a good tradeoff. And people have been saying Allen will get hurt running. He hasn't gotten near the number of hard shots Lamar has gotten. I really doubt it can last but for now, it works. KC just scores on almost every drive.

 

BTW the Bills WILL also have to score a lot of points. I don't see our D slowing KC down much. So Allen and friends will have to outgun them.

[Paulus]

It was a matter of time before defenses adjusted to his play. We will wait and see if LJ can now adjust to that adjustment. 

[whatdrought]

14 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

The point @Zerovoltz makes about not blitzing Mahomes is a good one. You don't blitz the best guys because as soon as you do they know in a nano second where that leaves a coverage hole and they get to their hot. Brady was a guy you never really should blitz. Rex actually had success with it a couple of times in his early Jets reign but he was aboyut the only guy and Rex used that same gameplan a dozen more times and got shredded. Rodgers is a guy you don't blitz, Brees and Manning the same.... Mahomes in that category too.

 

Think it is an area where both Allen and Jackson both need to get better still.

 

Did they Blitz Allen on the game winning drive last week? I remember a lot of pressure and being impressed with how he handled, but I didn’t see how many they were bringing. 

[{::'KayCeeS::}]

Look, it's simple:

 

Lamar has never shown he can make all the throws that JA can make.

 

So, unless Lamar somehow figures that out, he's always gonna be limited.

 

JA is the bomb diggity because he has no limits, in terms of throwing potential

 

All this is not rocket surgery.  Just realness.

 

That being said, Lamar will probably beat Allen in a 40 yard dash.  But...

[Hapless Bills Fan]

16 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

The point @Zerovoltz makes about not blitzing Mahomes is a good one. You don't blitz the best guys because as soon as you do they know in a nano second where that leaves a coverage hole and they get to their hot. Brady was a guy you never really should blitz. Rex actually had success with it a couple of times in his early Jets reign but he was aboyut the only guy and Rex used that same gameplan a dozen more times and got shredded. Rodgers is a guy you don't blitz, Brees and Manning the same.... Mahomes in that category too.

 

Think it is an area where both Allen and Jackson both need to get better still.

 

You took a crack at someone else for linking his stuff in another thread (not sure what's up with that) but actually,  Brett Kollman had one of the very best pieces explaining just this point that I've ever seen, "Kids See Ghosts" about Sam Darnold's "I'm seeing ghosts" game against the Patriots and their use of one specific form of blitz, Blitz zero.

 

In it, Kollman uses a Patriots-KC game during Mahomes 2nd year (first year starting) as an example of the point that Blitz recognition and "knowing the answers" is something that takes time - that even a generational talent such as Pat Mahomes with an excellent coaching staff and surrounding personnel was NOT prepared for it and struggled.

 

He then uses several examples to show how play selection and QB recognition interact - yes, the QB needs to recognize at the line of scrimmage what the defense is doing, but he also needs to have play options or the option to check to a different play that will be effective against what he sees.

 

I understand that your point is more general than one specific type of blitz, but my point is also general:

1) blitz recognition/knowing the answers is something that young QB generally struggle with, especially vs defenses which are adept at using disguise

2) the QB who excel at reading/reacting to blitz also need to have "answers" from their gameplan and scheme

 

We'll see, but I think Allen has figured some stuff out.  Not that he still can't get better.

[ganesh]

On 9/29/2020 at 6:57 PM, Captain Hindsight said:

Its not the end of an era, but Lamar does need to be consistent throwing the ball to be successful long term. He had 35 yards at halftime. No chance to win a game if thats what you put up through the air

Great QBs have sometimes passed for 100 yards in a game; it happens when the other teams defense catches on fire. 

 

Lamar is a stud QB and will deliver championship for the Ravens

[QCity]

On 9/29/2020 at 8:36 PM, Shaw66 said:

 

 

But I think I'm correct his trajectory.  He may even win a Super Bowl, but he is not going to be an elite QB.  

 

lol The end of an era. But he's probably only going to win 1 Super Bowl going forward. What a trainwreck. 

[GunnerBill]

8 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You took a crack at someone else for linking his stuff in another thread (not sure what's up with that) but actually,  Brett Kollman had one of the very best pieces explaining just this point that I've ever seen, "Kids See Ghosts" about Sam Darnold's "I'm seeing ghosts" game against the Patriots and their use of one specific form of blitz, Blitz zero.

 

In it, Kollman uses a Patriots-KC game during Mahomes 2nd year (first year starting) as an example of the point that Blitz recognition and "knowing the answers" is something that takes time - that even a generational talent such as Pat Mahomes with an excellent coaching staff and surrounding personnel was NOT prepared for it and struggled.

 

He then uses several examples to show how play selection and QB recognition interact - yes, the QB needs to recognize at the line of scrimmage what the defense is doing, but he also needs to have play options or the option to check to a different play that will be effective against what he sees.

 

I understand that your point is more general than one specific type of blitz, but my point is also general:

1) blitz recognition/knowing the answers is something that young QB generally struggle with, especially vs defenses which are adept at using disguise

2) the QB who excel at reading/reacting to blitz also need to have "answers" from their gameplan and scheme

 

We'll see, but I think Allen has figured some stuff out.  Not that he still can't get better.

 

I am not suggesting Mahomes had worked out the blitz day one or that Josh isn't improving and can't get better at it. Jackson can too by the way. My point was just it is an area for both where they still have work to do to match the current top guy or that great crop of 4 from the 00s and 10s.

 

Also I didn't take a crack at someone for linking his stuff I took a crack at the way that post was introduced. You are the mod though and you didn't have a problem with it so all is fair in love and war.

[billsfan_34]

On 9/29/2020 at 9:16 AM, TheElectricCompany said:

Say it with me..."We don't have to tear down Lamar, to prop Josh up".

 

Lamar is a phenomenal player and deserves his place at the "elite of the elite" table. Josh is well on his way to earning a seat. Both of these things can exist simultaneously.

 

Frankly, I find this take to be garbage. "The end of an era" because the MVP had one bad game?  Get outta here...

 

Shaw - you come for the king, you better not miss.

Lamar has not had an era- he is in year 3. Problem is, Lamar at times plays and is used as a tailback- he will be part of the Not For Long league.

[Chaos]

3 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

Lamar has not had an era- he is in year 3. Problem is, Lamar at times plays and is used as a tailback- he will be part of the Not For Long league.

 

Shaw's title simply reflects the media hype around Lamar. In the MNF pre-games show they compared Mahomes- Jackson to  Kelly-Marino and Brady-Manning.  Mahomes actually qualifies for this. Including Jackson in anyway in this stratosphere at this point is laughable. Discussing Jacksons 2019 regular season as one of the great personnel regular seasons in NFL history is fair and fine.