Rc2catch Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said: Why aren't you saying this about John Brown? Duke made several key catches in that game that no one else on the roster last year would have made, and it's like everyone forgets it because he failed to make a spectacular catch in the end zone. The criticism of Duke Williams is over the top and makes no sense. Well one example is brown had 1000 yards on the season so generally 1000 yard receivers aren’t fringe roster kinda guys. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 5 minutes ago, gregor7777 said: Duke Williams is 48 years old now Yes, but those are CFL years. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 1 minute ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said: Why aren't you saying this about John Brown? Duke made several key catches in that game that no one else on the roster last year would have made, and it's like everyone forgets it because he failed to make a spectacular catch in the end zone. The criticism of Duke Williams is over the top and makes no sense. John Brown made two mistakes in that game. I'm not disputing that. Brown has proven himself in this league, however, and his stats last season bear that out. Duke only caught 4/10 targets against the Texans. The potential TD catch would not have been "spectacular" -- the ball was in his hands and the DB broke it up. Duke was out there to be the "contested catch" guy and in his biggest moment he didn't do the job. He's not elite in anything, and if he isn't going to do the one thing he is supposed to excel at why keep him around when there are now other options such as Gabriel Davis and Isaiah Hodgins? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giuseppe Tognarelli Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 Just now, Rc2catch said: Well one example is brown had 1000 yards on the season so generally 1000 yard receivers aren’t fringe roster kinda guys. The point is that we mercilessly dump on Duke for failing to make what would have been a highlight-reel catch, when John Brown couldn't even complete a standard catch that probably would have made the same impact. Everyone forgets about the other critical receptions Williams had during the game. Look, I don't think he's going to make the 53 either, but I think he would have as the #4 if not for Davis. I think the Hodgins love is hilarious; this is a lanky guy with a slight frame who almost certainly won't be long for the league. I'll take the big-bodied, physical, nasty player with great hands any day. Duke brings an emotional edge that can't be discounted as well. I think Duke Williams is actually the best fit on the roster for 22 personnel, but they might decide they don't use it enough for it to be worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrbojanglezs Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 I was a Duke fan last year for sure, wanted him on the 53, wanted him active. But this year I don't think we need him if Gabe Davis is looking as good as he has. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 9 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said: What behavioral issues has Duke had in Buffalo? None whatsoever, it was an low blow statement. Duke has been a total process guy. Now if your looking at for a clear and obvious cut it’s Foster, he can only do STs, he has no value on the offense, can’t catch anything, even during practices. McKenzie, Duke, and both rookies are all far more productive, measured by his performance, he’s a goner, likely won’t make the practice squad. He’s the last of the failed WR fodder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 22 minutes ago, Mrbojanglezs said: I was a Duke fan last year for sure, wanted him on the 53, wanted him active. But this year I don't think we need him if Gabe Davis is looking as good as he has. This is where i'm at. If Davis can be our WR4/Big-Body Receiver, then i'd rather keep Roberts as KR/PR and, maybe, McKenzie for the gadget stuff, while putting Hodgins on the PS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 I said it last year, and we picked the wrong wr to bring in. Duke's teammate had better numbers in Canada. Can't remember his name. Some really nice people here still rooting for Duke. I get it, but Duke is 27 yrs old and isn't going to get much better. I wish him well. Maybe go back north. Oh, they cancelled the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giuseppe Tognarelli Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 1 minute ago, SCBills said: This is where i'm at. If Davis can be our WR4/Big-Body Receiver, then i'd rather keep Roberts as KR/PR and, maybe, McKenzie for the gadget stuff, while putting Hodgins on the PS. This seems to be the most likely outcome to me, with Duke being employed elsewhere as a productive #2 receiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 29 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said: The point is that we mercilessly dump on Duke for failing to make what would have been a highlight-reel catch, when John Brown couldn't even complete a standard catch that probably would have made the same impact. Everyone forgets about the other critical receptions Williams had during the game. Look, I don't think he's going to make the 53 either, but I think he would have as the #4 if not for Davis. I think the Hodgins love is hilarious; this is a lanky guy with a slight frame who almost certainly won't be long for the league. I'll take the big-bodied, physical, nasty player with great hands any day. Duke brings an emotional edge that can't be discounted as well. I think Duke Williams is actually the best fit on the roster for 22 personnel, but they might decide they don't use it enough for it to be worth it. Great hands!? You forgot "slow". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giuseppe Tognarelli Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 Just now, Dopey said: Great hands!? You forgot "slow". Yes, the fact that he didn't make that one catch doesn't mean he doesn't have great hands. Give me a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 6 hours ago, LB48 said: He's big. He gets open despite not having break away speed. Excellent route running skills and great hands. IF he's cut another team will scoop him up right away. Much of this sentence is not true. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 7 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said: Yes, the fact that he didn't make that one catch doesn't mean he doesn't have great hands. Give me a break. It wasn't just the one drop. Check him out with a minute left in the playoff game. For his career(including Canada), something like 50% of the passes thrown his way were incomplete. Not all his fault, but close to 50% ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 If QB runs are going to be a designed part of the offense this year, you've got to give Duke some credit for his blocking ability. All we know about the rookie WRs is what the media tell us, and they rarely mention blocking ability because most fans don't care about whether a WR can block (3 pages in, and nobody mentioned it). At least some coaches do. I suspect Duke won't make the 53. But knowing absolutely nothing at this point about whether the rookie WRs have the ability and willingness to block (especially Hodgin), Duke may have a better chance than some give him credit for. Duke is adequate enough as a catcher so that his entry into the game would not necessarily mean a run was coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Junction Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 1 hour ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said: I see that you left out Bob Foster @Mike in Horseheads would agree I think Fosters likelihood of making the roster is tied to Taiwan Jones health. It’d be nice if we could see who else they’re using at gunner and have a better picture. Unfortunately, we’ve got the covid camp and lockdown on information. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 Probably not happening. There aren't enough balls to go around. After the top four receivers - Brown, Beasley, Diggs and Davis, there aren't going to be a lot of targets to be had. Roberts will get a few of those as the Bills try to get him a bit more involved in the offense. Duke's real problem is that Gabriel Davis is a better, faster, more explosive version of himself. Anything Duke can do, Davis can, and Davis might be able to do it better. Add to that the fact that Davis is younger and possesses more upside, and the handwriting is on the wall for Duke Williams. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 45 minutes ago, Don Otreply said: None whatsoever, it was an low blow statement. Duke has been a total process guy. Now if your looking at for a clear and obvious cut it’s Foster, he can only do STs, he has no value on the offense, can’t catch anything, even during practices. McKenzie, Duke, and both rookies are all far more productive, measured by his performance, he’s a goner, likely won’t make the practice squad. He’s the last of the failed WR fodder. The AAA wants a word with you...? (Alabama Alumni Association) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSEFEFFER Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 1 hour ago, eball said: John Brown made two mistakes in that game. I'm not disputing that. Brown has proven himself in this league, however, and his stats last season bear that out. Duke only caught 4/10 targets against the Texans. The potential TD catch would not have been "spectacular" -- the ball was in his hands and the DB broke it up. Duke was out there to be the "contested catch" guy and in his biggest moment he didn't do the job. He's not elite in anything, and if he isn't going to do the one thing he is supposed to excel at why keep him around when there are now other options such as Gabriel Davis and Isaiah Hodgins? Three of those targets were not anywhere near him. A tipped ball landing at his feet, one out-of-bounds and a messed up 3rd and long play at the end. He had another nice reception called pack on a holding penalty by Kroft, maybe? I'd give the DBs a pbu in both cases and am of the opinion that they therefore can't be a "drop" as many refer to them. I think he might be shelved on the PS again but maybe he gets claimed by some WR needy team. The Jets would make some sense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 I think Duke will not likely make this team's 53. But, I don't think he will last long on the PS, either. A player who comes in late in the season as he did last year, and makes impact plays with a higher completion percentage than the guy throwing him the ball will get a serious look from other teams, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said: I think Duke will not likely make this team's 53. But, I don't think he will last long on the PS, either. A player who comes in late in the season as he did last year, and makes impact plays with a higher completion percentage than the guy throwing him the ball will get a serious look from other teams, imo. I agree with you (except I don’t think he even makes the PS). To date Duke has not distinguished himself in any way. The pool of potential NFL WRs who are at or exceed the minimum physical abilities to play in the league is incredibly deep. The ones that stay are the few that figure out the game and can separate themselves from those at the bottom of rosters. I have seen no evidence that Duke has done that - and at 27 he’s not improving much from here on out. There are too many younger (5 years younger) players out there who have abilities and potential that exceed Duke’s. There is zero reason to keep him on this roster or PS this season if he can’t contribute in a very meaningful way right now. Edited August 31, 2020 by BarleyNY 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said: This seems to be the most likely outcome to me, with Duke being employed elsewhere as a productive #2 receiver. A productive #2? No chance. Absolutely none. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said: This seems to be the most likely outcome to me, with Duke being employed elsewhere as a productive #2 receiver. In the XFL, perhaps. 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: A productive #2? No chance. Absolutely none. We have a winner. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 The mark of a good team is you have to start cutting pretty good players. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 Duke likely makes an NFL roster somewhere, and if he doesn't he will make a practice squad. But the idea he is going to go somewhere and be a major part of the offense? No chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronxbomber21 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 I think McKenzie is the odd man out Diggs Brown Robert's can all run the jet sweep. 1. Diggs 2. Brown 3. Beasley 4. Davis 5. Roberts 6. Williams 7. Hodges 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomur67 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 Both rookies have talent and good size. They have more upside than Duke. I would think there might be a couple of other teams that could fit Duke on their rosters. I wish him all the best and hope he has a good NFL career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 2 hours ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said: Why aren't you saying this about John Brown? Duke made several key catches in that game that no one else on the roster last year would have made, and it's like everyone forgets it because he failed to make a spectacular catch in the end zone. The criticism of Duke Williams is over the top and makes no sense. Much like your take. 2 hours ago, Don Otreply said: None whatsoever, it was an low blow statement. Duke has been a total process guy. Now if your looking at for a clear and obvious cut it’s Foster, he can only do STs, he has no value on the offense, can’t catch anything, even during practices. McKenzie, Duke, and both rookies are all far more productive, measured by his performance, he’s a goner, likely won’t make the practice squad. He’s the last of the failed WR fodder. Why did he reach the NFL 4 years after his college eligibility? I gotcher ‘low brow’. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 I would not use the word "definitely", but I do think Duke has a legit case for the roster along with Hodgins and McKenzie. Foster at this point I just cant see making this team given he has done little since his rookie year and mostly dealt with injury issues, including camp again this year. I feel like Beane will do what he does best and flip Foster for like a 5th or something. But Duke has had a strong camp from I can gather from reports, along with both Hodgins and McKenzie. I think they only keep 6 WRs on the active roster. We know the 5 locks, so that leaves one of these 3 and each has their own pros and cons to them. Duke - PROS: Has a unique skill set that brings in Redzone and 3rd down value as a situational player. Physical player and a guy the locker room and staff seem to really like and all reports seem to suggest he's having a good camp. Has experience in Dabolls system, which gives him an edge over Hodgins. CONS: Lacks burst and also has a locked in rookie that also has size in Davis, making him no longer the only guy with size in the WR room to make contested catches. McKenzie - PROS: Excellent speed and perfect fit for the gimmick plays Daboll loves to run. Also Daboll seems to really like him too. Has had a strong camp as well based on reports. Has value on special teams too. CONS: There are multiple players who can run the gimmick plays he would be used in now on the roster. His value as a WR is minimal now, and even after a strong camp last year, they did not use him a lot last year despite a much weaker WR room outside of Brown and Cole. Does he do enough now to keep a spot, may come down to ST contributions. Hodgins - PROS: Biggest pro here is that he has been standing out in camp. Has the most upside of the guys on the bubble by far. CONS: An UDFA rookie makes him easier to protect on PS, and with a COVID risk season, they may not want to keep a second rookie (Davis is a lock at this point) on the active roster this year. For me...I think Duke has a slight edge, but won't surprise me at all to see them keep any of the 3. So again, nothing wrong in making a case for Duke, but at the end of the day, there is nothing "definitely" about any of these 3 WR's and all right now are in a tight race to try and get a 6th WR spot here. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 24 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: A productive #2? No chance. Absolutely none. Well, as much as I love Duke's story, and as much as might heart wants to argue with you, I think you're right. If Duke were going to be a productive #2, we would have seen more of him on the field last season, and more production. Is it possible he'll be a late bloomer? Yes, and I'd love it if that happened. Is it likely? No. I do think he'll be in the league for three or four more years. There's a place for him on someone's roster. In Buffalo? I still think it's possible, but I'd say the odds of him making it in Buffalo are getting longer by the day. I'm not a McKenzie fan, but McKenzie offers more to the team than Duke. The worst sentence Duke Williams has heard through eight months of 2020 is "With their fourth pick in the 2020, the Buffalo Bills select Gabriel Davis." Through nine months, the worst sentence will be "Duke, we're sorry but ...." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyMannn Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 8 hours ago, LB48 said: Excellent route running skills and great hands. Didn't he drop an end zone catch in the playoff game? Foster I don't understand. So much production first year and nothing since Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: I would not use the word "definitely", but I do think Duke has a legit case for the roster along with Hodgins and McKenzie. Foster at this point I just cant see making this team given he has done little since his rookie year and mostly dealt with injury issues, including camp again this year. I feel like Beane will do what he does best and flip Foster for like a 5th or something. But Duke has had a strong camp from I can gather from reports, along with both Hodgins and McKenzie. I think they only keep 6 WRs on the active roster. We know the 5 locks, so that leaves one of these 3 and each has their own pros and cons to them. Duke - PROS: Has a unique skill set that brings in Redzone and 3rd down value as a situational player. Physical player and a guy the locker room and staff seem to really like and all reports seem to suggest he's having a good camp. Has experience in Dabolls system, which gives him an edge over Hodgins. CONS: Lacks burst and also has a locked in rookie that also has size in Davis, making him no longer the only guy with size in the WR room to make contested catches. McKenzie - PROS: Excellent speed and perfect fit for the gimmick plays Daboll loves to run. Also Daboll seems to really like him too. Has had a strong camp as well based on reports. Has value on special teams too. CONS: There are multiple players who can run the gimmick plays he would be used in now on the roster. His value as a WR is minimal now, and even after a strong camp last year, they did not use him a lot last year despite a much weaker WR room outside of Brown and Cole. Does he do enough now to keep a spot, may come down to ST contributions. Hodgins - PROS: Biggest pro here is that he has been standing out in camp. Has the most upside of the guys on the bubble by far. CONS: An UDFA rookie makes him easier to protect on PS, and with a COVID risk season, they may not want to keep a second rookie (Davis is a lock at this point) on the active roster this year. For me...I think Duke has a slight edge, but won't surprise me at all to see them keep any of the 3. So again, nothing wrong in making a case for Duke, but at the end of the day, there is nothing "definitely" about any of these 3 WR's and all right now are in a tight race to try and get a 6th WR spot here. As I said, McKenzie is versatile. And he has speed, which is always a good thing. I'm afraid the nod goes to McKenzie. Hodgins isn't an UDFA, and it probably won't be easy to hide him on the PS. Strikes me as a closer call, and I think the nod goes to the guy who looks like he'll be the best contributor in 2021. I say that for the same reason I said it last season about Duke and Zay Jones If you're not one of the top three receivers on the team, your chances of sticking with the team are based on your longer term potential. Zay wasn't top 2 last season and was barely top 3, so he was expendable. It wasn't long before Zay was gone and Duke was on the roster. The current talents of the #4 guy are somewhat important, but if the #5 guy has more potential, the #4 guy is at risk. That's where Duke finds himself. So, unless Duke has been really special this summer, unless he's staked a strong claim to the #4 spot, he's in trouble. Unfortunately for him, Gabriel Davis is the guy who apparently has staked that claim. So Duke is fighting for the #5 spot (Roberts is #6). Hodgins apparently has impressed, too, and so, given his age and his growth potential, I have to think he has the edge. Edited August 31, 2020 by Shaw66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 Duke blew his chance vs HOU in playoffs.... 4 catches on 10 targets time to move on....life is cruel in the nfl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ManRaid Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 Ah, the Duke Williams Fan Club strikes again... I like him as much as the next guy, but until he shows better reliability he is a practice squad guy and not worth keeping 7 WRs or displacing the rookies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giuseppe Tognarelli Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: Duke likely makes an NFL roster somewhere, and if he doesn't he will make a practice squad. But the idea he is going to go somewhere and be a major part of the offense? No chance. It's either that or out of the league, because he's not playing special teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said: It's either that or out of the league, because he's not playing special teams. Hopefully his agent isn't using that when he talks to teams... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hampton Josh fan Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 9 hours ago, LB48 said: He's big. He gets open despite not having break away speed. Excellent route running skills and great hands. IF he's cut another team will scoop him up right away. Robert Foster has had his chances. Isaiah Hodgins was a 6th round pick with 4.61 speed in the 40 yard dash. As the Bills get better talent all over the field a draft choice won't necessarily make the final roster. Beasley, Brown, Diggs, Roberts, McKenzie, Davis AND Duke form a uniquely talented group of of wide-outs! All don't have to dress each game - and - injuries happen! Couldn't agree more. This guy will be valuable as red zone clutch receiver. He could have made a great catch against Houston, last year, and cemented his place on the roster. To be fair, as a rookie, he looked like a keeper. His work ethic and desire can't be questioned. He is a fan favorite and needs to stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Chandler#81 said: Much like your take. Why did he reach the NFL 4 years after his college eligibility? I gotcher ‘low brow’. Ooh, ? It was an unnecessary jab, that was put to rest by DWs corrective actions years ago, I will admit I jabbed you on this point. We both went for the low hanging fruit... Go Bills!!! Edited August 31, 2020 by Don Otreply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 OP keeps dropping these deuces on the living room carpet and then disappearing.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo2218 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 I've been supportive of Williams throughout his time here, but he's in a very crowded WR room. The reports of him having a "good" camp need to read something along the lines of having an "outstanding" camp for him to have a shot at making the roster. But as many have mentioned before, put him at TE since Kroft can't seem to stay healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 53 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: OP keeps dropping these deuces on the living room carpet and then disappearing.... Your ‘friendly’ neighborhood moderator is on the job.? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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