"No Negative Financial Situation" to affect ability to extend McBeane

[boco357]

https://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/2020/06/buffalo-bills-owner-no-negative-financial-situation-will-impact-franchises-ability-to-extend-sean-mcdermott-brandon-beane.html

 

 

[IgotBILLStopay]

stating the obvious -  Beane and McDermott cost peanuts relative to the 220 + mill salary bill for 2020 and are arguably more important than any player on the team. 

Edited June 16, 2020 by IgotBILLStopay

[Mr. K]

If you missed the Sabres Presser today (I know not all Bills fans are sabres fans) they sounded like keeping the Sabres a float was a challenge and talking about how his oil/energy business "isnt doing well but at least were not in debt." I hope the Sabres level of fragility does not seep down to one bills drive. 

[Don Otreply]

I would expect that the Sabres is legally and financially a separate business entity to the Bills, so as one would not bring down the other under financial strain, that and being that their gas and oil business carries no debt they are in good shape to weather out this present economic storm. Jmo. 

[WhoTom]

25 minutes ago, Jaraxxus said:

 

Talk about a misleading title

 

 

I don't know about misleading, but it's a convoluted way of saying, "We've got enough money to keep McDermott and Beane."

 

[Malazan]

This question feels like the reporter didn't do their homework and was looking for a cheap bump

[Doc]

“There is no financial situation," Terry Pegula said. “I don’t know where that rumor started. If you look at every oil and gas company, which is our core business outside sports, they’re all — you might use the word — hurting. But we don’t have any debt on our oil and gas business.”

[CNYfan]

I read in Barron's a few weeks back that Jerry Jones' energy company (CRK a Texas Oil Company) was a total flop.  With annualized returns of -15% over the past 15 years (the exact figures escape me but one can probably find the article).

The bonds were below junk grade, but the company was bailed out by asset purchases by the Federal Reserve. 

 

There's a guy who needs a taxpayer bailout. 

 

Edited June 16, 2020 by CNYfan
15 years

[zonabb]

zero debt and being asset owners (in oil/gas) means they are on sound financial ground all around. Let's be honest, the Bills make money. And they paid cash for them and have zero stadium debt (why I have long stated and will continue to state that they are not in favor of a new stadium carrying that debt... imagine no fans this year and what that would mean if they were carrying $500M in stadium debt). Bills are fine and will always be fine in this market, it's just that the greedy owners like Jones and Kraft aren't fine with it, they want more profit. But they are profitable. 

 

I think they made a major mistake trying to get into other areas of sports with PS&E. They feel like deep pockets make them capable of anything but as I have also stated, this is a guy who is a geologist/rock jockey who was smart and made billions. She's a Houghton College grad who was waiting table in Olean and about to leave to be a fisherwoman in Alaska before the golden goose came along. She worked in oil and gas and she's in over head in sports and entertainment. PS&E was a loser and they apparently lost big, but again, just because you have billions doesn't guarantee success in other business ventures outside the one you made your millions. And by many accounts, she's not a leader or visionary, just a rich entitled micromanager. 

 

The Sabres are a problem, and although clearly a standalone LLC, they must be looking at the Bills as a way to keep the Sabres afloat and hopefully still profit. I wouldn't be the least bit shocked to find out that they're interest in the Bills was as a way to offset losses with the Sabres, who every single owner has claimed is a loser.

 

Smart move for the same reasons as above... they have zero debt on either team or facility, which minimizes any losses.  

 

In the end, they are sitting on a football team that has appreciated in value significantly since they bought it, far more than oil and gas has. And when oil and gas inevitably increases in price due to global conflict and geopolitics or pure supply and demand, the Pegulas will drill baby drill and make their billions. 

 

In the end, all is well for them and always will be. 

 

 

[Bobby Hooks]

6 minutes ago, zonabb said:

zero debt and being asset owners (in oil/gas) means they are on sound financial ground all around. Let's be honest, the Bills make money. And they paid cash for them and have zero stadium debt (why I have long stated and will continue to state that they are not in favor of a new stadium carrying that debt... imagine no fans this year and what that would mean if they were carrying $500M in stadium debt). Bills are fine and will always be fine in this market, it's just that the greedy owners like Jones and Kraft aren't fine with it, they want more profit. But they are profitable. 

 

I think they made a major mistake trying to get into other areas of sports with PS&E. They feel like deep pockets make them capable of anything but as I have also stated, this is a guy who is a geologist/rock jockey who was smart and made billions. She's a Houghton College grad who was waiting table in Olean and about to leave to be a fisherwoman in Alaska before the golden goose came along. She worked in oil and gas and she's in over head in sports and entertainment. PS&E was a loser and they apparently lost big, but again, just because you have billions doesn't guarantee success in other business ventures outside the one you made your millions. And by many accounts, she's not a leader or visionary, just a rich entitled micromanager. 

 

The Sabres are a problem, and although clearly a standalone LLC, they must be looking at the Bills as a way to keep the Sabres afloat and hopefully still profit. I wouldn't be the least bit shocked to find out that they're interest in the Bills was as a way to offset losses with the Sabres, who every single owner has claimed is a loser.

 

Smart move for the same reasons as above... they have zero debt on either team or facility, which minimizes any losses.  

 

In the end, they are sitting on a football team that has appreciated in value significantly since they bought it, far more than oil and gas has. And when oil and gas inevitably increases in price due to global conflict and geopolitics or pure supply and demand, the Pegulas will drill baby drill and make their billions. 

 

In the end, all is well for them and always will be. 

 

 

Good stuff.  I just wonder if the Sabres are on stable ground as far as the Pegula’s go. For whatever reason they simply can’t seem to get that train going. 

 

And it seems to me they’re far more interested in the Bills. Makes me wonder if the Sabres are in their long term plans. 

[WhoTom]

28 minutes ago, zonabb said:

I wouldn't be the least bit shocked to find out that they're interest in the Bills was as a way to offset losses with the Sabres,

 

Their interest in the Bills is the same as their interest in the Sabres: Kim is a fan. Buying the Bills in order to to keep the Sabres afloat doesn't make sense - they'd have been better off taking a chunk of the $1.4B that they spent on the Bills and spend it directly on the Sabres.

 

 

[Augie]

Go cheap on the front office, and you are the Bengals. THAT is NOT a good business plan. 

[Doc]

8 minutes ago, WhoTom said:

Their interest in the Bills is the same as their interest in the Sabres: Kim is a fan. Buying the Bills in order to to keep the Sabres afloat doesn't make sense - they'd have been better off taking a chunk of the $1.4B that they spent on the Bills and spend it directly on the Sabres.

 

Their interest in the Bills was keeping the team in Buffalo.  I'm not sure how big fans they were of the Bills, while I know they were big Sabres fans.

[Lurker]

NFL = Money Machine

 

NHL = Garage League

[delirious]

Hope things turn out better for the Sabres. Troubling times when my Penguins went through bankruptcy.

 

Took a chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, a potential HOF goaltender, a HOF winger and a gift wrapped lottery HOF center to dig us out of the pits.

[CBennett]

6 minutes ago, delirious said:

Hope things turn out better for the Sabres. Troubling times when my Penguins went through bankruptcy.

 

Took a chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, a potential HOF goaltender, a HOF winger and a gift wrapped lottery HOF center to dig us out of the pits.

Just sell the Sabres they will run them into the ground with their INEPT ownership

[oldmanfan]

Double Beane’s salary and have him help oversee the new Sabres GM.  

[NewEra]

Pay em both 10+ mill a year

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, Augie said:

Go cheap on the front office, and you are the Bengals. THAT is NOT a good business plan. 

For the long haul dramatically cutting staff will damage your product and keep you in a bottom tier status. But as a short term survival mode strategy of austerity it is a reasonable or at least understandable approach to take. The hotel, restaurant and airline industries are stripping down in order to survive for today so tomorrow they will still exist. The Pegulas for sure have made plenty of rookie owner mistakes in the football and hockey business. In football you can make foolish mistakes and still make money. However, in hockey there isn't much profit margin to begin with even in the best of times for this market. This pandemic environment is probably going to still exist when the next season occurs. Right now they are just trying to weather the storm and remain viable. In the sports industry the world of yesterday is not the same as it is for today and tomorrow. They are doing their best to adapt. 

 

 

[Beast]

3 hours ago, zonabb said:

zero debt and being asset owners (in oil/gas) means they are on sound financial ground all around. Let's be honest, the Bills make money. And they paid cash for them and have zero stadium debt (why I have long stated and will continue to state that they are not in favor of a new stadium carrying that debt... imagine no fans this year and what that would mean if they were carrying $500M in stadium debt). Bills are fine and will always be fine in this market, it's just that the greedy owners like Jones and Kraft aren't fine with it, they want more profit. But they are profitable. 

 

I think they made a major mistake trying to get into other areas of sports with PS&E. They feel like deep pockets make them capable of anything but as I have also stated, this is a guy who is a geologist/rock jockey who was smart and made billions. She's a Houghton College grad who was waiting table in Olean and about to leave to be a fisherwoman in Alaska before the golden goose came along. She worked in oil and gas and she's in over head in sports and entertainment. PS&E was a loser and they apparently lost big, but again, just because you have billions doesn't guarantee success in other business ventures outside the one you made your millions. And by many accounts, she's not a leader or visionary, just a rich entitled micromanager. 

 

The Sabres are a problem, and although clearly a standalone LLC, they must be looking at the Bills as a way to keep the Sabres afloat and hopefully still profit. I wouldn't be the least bit shocked to find out that they're interest in the Bills was as a way to offset losses with the Sabres, who every single owner has claimed is a loser.

 

Smart move for the same reasons as above... they have zero debt on either team or facility, which minimizes any losses.  

 

In the end, they are sitting on a football team that has appreciated in value significantly since they bought it, far more than oil and gas has. And when oil and gas inevitably increases in price due to global conflict and geopolitics or pure supply and demand, the Pegulas will drill baby drill and make their billions. 

 

In the end, all is well for them and always will be. 

 

 

The stadium is rapidly deteriorating and for you to think they are OK just because the rent is free is ignorant.
 

State tax money will not be there after this Covid 19 crisis.

[mannc]

3 hours ago, zonabb said:

zero debt and being asset owners (in oil/gas) means they are on sound financial ground all around. Let's be honest, the Bills make money. And they paid cash for them and have zero stadium debt (why I have long stated and will continue to state that they are not in favor of a new stadium carrying that debt... imagine no fans this year and what that would mean if they were carrying $500M in stadium debt). Bills are fine and will always be fine in this market, it's just that the greedy owners like Jones and Kraft aren't fine with it, they want more profit. But they are profitable. 

 

I think they made a major mistake trying to get into other areas of sports with PS&E. They feel like deep pockets make them capable of anything but as I have also stated, this is a guy who is a geologist/rock jockey who was smart and made billions. She's a Houghton College grad who was waiting table in Olean and about to leave to be a fisherwoman in Alaska before the golden goose came along. She worked in oil and gas and she's in over head in sports and entertainment. PS&E was a loser and they apparently lost big, but again, just because you have billions doesn't guarantee success in other business ventures outside the one you made your millions. And by many accounts, she's not a leader or visionary, just a rich entitled micromanager. 

 

The Sabres are a problem, and although clearly a standalone LLC, they must be looking at the Bills as a way to keep the Sabres afloat and hopefully still profit. I wouldn't be the least bit shocked to find out that they're interest in the Bills was as a way to offset losses with the Sabres, who every single owner has claimed is a loser.

 

Smart move for the same reasons as above... they have zero debt on either team or facility, which minimizes any losses.  

 

In the end, they are sitting on a football team that has appreciated in value significantly since they bought it, far more than oil and gas has. And when oil and gas inevitably increases in price due to global conflict and geopolitics or pure supply and demand, the Pegulas will drill baby drill and make their billions. 

 

In the end, all is well for them and always will be. 

 

 

I’m not trying to be a wiseguy, but how do we know Pegula’s oil and gas business is debt-free?  Is it publicly traded?

[Capco]

2 minutes ago, mannc said:

I’m not trying to be a wiseguy, but how do we know Pegula’s oil and gas business is debt-free?  Is it publicly traded?

 

Because he said so:

 

 

[eball]

4 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Their interest in the Bills was keeping the team in Buffalo.  I'm not sure how big fans they were of the Bills, while I know they were big Sabres fans.

Terry is a big Sabres fan. Kim is a Bills fan. 

[mannc]

2 hours ago, Capco said:

 

Because he said so:

 

 

Hmmm

[machine gun kelly]

8 hours ago, zonabb said:

zero debt and being asset owners (in oil/gas) means they are on sound financial ground all around. Let's be honest, the Bills make money. And they paid cash for them and have zero stadium debt (why I have long stated and will continue to state that they are not in favor of a new stadium carrying that debt... imagine no fans this year and what that would mean if they were carrying $500M in stadium debt). Bills are fine and will always be fine in this market, it's just that the greedy owners like Jones and Kraft aren't fine with it, they want more profit. But they are profitable. 

 

I think they made a major mistake trying to get into other areas of sports with PS&E. They feel like deep pockets make them capable of anything but as I have also stated, this is a guy who is a geologist/rock jockey who was smart and made billions. She's a Houghton College grad who was waiting table in Olean and about to leave to be a fisherwoman in Alaska before the golden goose came along. She worked in oil and gas and she's in over head in sports and entertainment. PS&E was a loser and they apparently lost big, but again, just because you have billions doesn't guarantee success in other business ventures outside the one you made your millions. And by many accounts, she's not a leader or visionary, just a rich entitled micromanager. 

 

The Sabres are a problem, and although clearly a standalone LLC, they must be looking at the Bills as a way to keep the Sabres afloat and hopefully still profit. I wouldn't be the least bit shocked to find out that they're interest in the Bills was as a way to offset losses with the Sabres, who every single owner has claimed is a loser.

 

Smart move for the same reasons as above... they have zero debt on either team or facility, which minimizes any losses.  

 

In the end, they are sitting on a football team that has appreciated in value significantly since they bought it, far more than oil and gas has. And when oil and gas inevitably increases in price due to global conflict and geopolitics or pure supply and demand, the Pegulas will drill baby drill and make their billions. 

 

In the end, all is well for them and always will be. 

 

 

Not bad Zonabb.  The Bills will be solvent, and yes, I see them using the Bills to keep the Sabres going.  If things continue to get bad they probably would consider selling the Sabres, but that is the nuclear option.  I’m speculating they still have a long term plan to move the Bills downtown (first ward), but now will be seriously delayed as they dig out of the overall economic downtown.

 

Regarding McBeane, they still have a year or two left on their current contracts so they’ll just delay temporarily the extensions, but they probably have said, just be patient guys and we will extend you.  It’s not like other clubs are just so flushed with cash right now.  On a global point of view, coaches and managers may be a little safer (very little) from getting fired after 2020 unless they are absolutely horrible as the economy is not doing well, and won’t until this virus is under control.  Revenue for any sports club is going to hurt this year, even with the tv revenue.  McBeane will be fine as the Pegulas should know what high quality coaches and administration they have at this time.  Two playoff appearances in three years, projections to win the AFCE in year 4, a very well managed club talent and financially.

 

Im not overly worried and these reporters have to do something to get a story.

[Mr. WEO]

Maybe the author was subtly juxtaposing that there's millions available for one PSE employee, but not thousands for dozens of others....

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

I don't see why the Sabres situation would have any effect on the Bills operation.  They are represented on separate P&L's.  I also don't look at this as a situation where they can't like, make payroll etc.

 

The Sabres have spent to the cap (and over) for years with 0 success.  They brought in an extensive scouting staff to try and create an advantage... it didn't work.  They're operating under the assumption that they won't have fans in 2020-2021, and that the many levels of player scouting (European leagues, Junior Hockey, etc.) will also be operating (or attempting to operate) without fans.  If there are no fans, it becomes next to impossible for a minor league hockey team to work.  

 

I don't even think TP is trying to become profitable for next year, i think the idea is to not lose a buttload of money if at all possible.

[Happy]

This has nothing to do with potentially extending McD and Beane, at least not from what Terry spoke of in the video clip contained in the article.  The article author mentioned it, but that is an aside to the financial struggles many oil and natural gas companies are having at this moment.  Terry seems to be more concerned with the possibility of having no fans in the stadiums than he is about his O+G businesses, which are debt free (good for him).

[MJS]

Beane and McDermott will be in Buffalo for as long as they want to be.

 

The Pegulas have literally no option but to extend them. If they don't, fans will mutiny and it will hurt their brand, revenue, and perception as owners.

[PromoTheRobot]

15 hours ago, CBennett said:

Just sell the Sabres they will run them into the ground with their INEPT ownership

 

Unlike the NFL, the NHL values the Sabres in Buffalo. That said, there are interests that want a second NHL team in the Toronto area. Don't give then an opening.

[FireChans]

6 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Unlike the NFL, the NHL values the Sabres in Buffalo. That said, there are interests that want a second NHL team in the Toronto area. Don't give then an opening.

Put a decent product out or fire the inept President.

[Doc]

16 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Unlike the NFL, the NHL values the Sabres in Buffalo. That said, there are interests that want a second NHL team in the Toronto area. Don't give then an opening.

A 2nd NHL team in Toronto isn't happening.  Ever.

[PromoTheRobot]

16 minutes ago, Doc said:

A 2nd NHL team in Toronto isn't happening.  Ever.

 

Maybe not, but would you bet the Sabres on that? Harder to happen right now with two NHL territories to deal with (Leafs/Sabres,) but what if the Sabres went to Hamilton or Kitchener or London? Different story. Don't forget Jim Balsillie of RIM/Blackberry wanted the Sabres real bad.

[Malazan]

7 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Don't forget Jim Balsillie of RIM/Blackberry wanted the Sabres real bad.

 

Speaking of bankrupt businesses...is blackberry bankrupt yet?

[BornAgainBillsFan]

The Pegulas should sell the Sabres, and use the money to sign Beane to a 20 year extension.

 

My biggest fear is that he'll be the next Carolina GM, and we'll go back to the jokers who draft RBs in the top 10.

[Chaos]

19 hours ago, Augie said:

Go cheap on the front office, and you are the Bengals. THAT is NOT a good business plan. 

Do the Bengals lose money?

[Mr. WEO]

40 minutes ago, Doc said:

A 2nd NHL team in Toronto isn't happening.  Ever.

 

 

This is true.

[nucci]

2 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Do the Bengals lose money?

No, just the games

[Doc]

Given the choice between the two, I’d have no problem with them selling the Sabres. With the caveat that the new owner(s) keep the team in Buffalo. But will anyone honor that? I know that Pegulas will.

[Augie]

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

Do the Bengals lose money?

 

I bet they’d make more if they won more. It pays to win.

 

I used to live in Cincinnati and still get back annually. The family I stay with while there are so disgusted they are Browns fans, for goodness sake! He has taken the grandkids to a few Bengals games because they go free.....people giving away tickets for free. Sometimes he passes on the free tickets. I’m sure they make money, but I’m pretty sure a better product would make more money. 

 

Funny, I just remembered one time I was there with my wife. Someone had given him 20 tickets, and there were only four of us. We paid  face value for ours and we were to scalp the rest, getting what we could. The best we could do was $2/ticket for pretty good seats! It was awkward, as I wanted my face value back! But I was a good sport about it.