letsgoteam Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 As someone that is definitely an outsider (not knowing anyone here and living in a different state) and a lurker, IMHO, if someone like @Kirby Jackson who has over 26,000 posts on a message boards says they have inside sources and that message board community vets believe it, then I would think its a pretty reliable source. No person/poster with that many posts would still be able to say all of these things without getting called out immediately by other vets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewin Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 5 hours ago, HappyDays said: It's certainly possible but I don't inherently trust leaks out of the Bills anymore. So you're saying Beane was playing 5D chess - and tricked Bellicheat and his dog into drafting a player they didn't even want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 2 hours ago, HappyDays said: Epenesa was the next best thing. Geesh. Slopply thirds?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 All of this reminds me - where the hell has @BADOLBILZ been??? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 6 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: That’s not what I heard. Dugger was their guy. They had talked about trading up for him but he went before they had a chance. And why are you hearing things? Why do you have a source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIZ Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIZ Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 It will be very interesting to see if the Bills show interest in these players when/if they are released, available for trade, or become a free agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 12 minutes ago, MJS said: And why are you hearing things? Why do you have a source? I mean a lot of people hear things. It’s not a very big town. There are a dozen or so people here that have connections and relationships. Is that crazy? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIZ Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: I can confirm this one too. Dugger was the guy. They had even talked about trading up for him. This was a weird year for the usually airtight Bills. The virtual draft had more info slipping out than usual. Additionally, they tried to trade up for Duvernay. I wish they would have drafted Darnell Mooney WR out of Tulane. He went 173 to the Bears in the 5th round. Bills selected Fromm at 167 in the 5th. Would be curious to know what they thought of him. Edited April 30, 2020 by PIZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 19 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: I mean a lot of people hear things. It’s not a very big town. There are a dozen or so people here that have connections and relationships. Is that crazy? I find it so odd this year there are so many folks who don’t know you. TBD band wagoners? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jpsredemption Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 Would have been a risky and an odd pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said: I mean a lot of people hear things. It’s not a very big town. There are a dozen or so people here that have connections and relationships. Is that crazy? I dated a girl who was an Auditor for the Falcons. She told me something about an ex-Bill and Falcon. I wasn’t surprised. I used train with Kalimba Edwards. I asked him why he didn’t sign with the Bills after his visit. He said they didn’t offer him enough money and Oakland had better weather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 8 hours ago, Doc said: Not over Epenesa. I'm glad the Cheaters made it easy for them. Exactly . Epenesa was widely regarded as the best DE not named Chase Young. Don't think Buf passes on him if Dugger is available too. Much more valuable position and much safer pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 7 minutes ago, JerseyBills said: Exactly . Epenesa was widely regarded as the best DE not named Chase Young. Don't think Buf passes on him if Dugger is available too. Much more valuable position and much safer pick If that was the case, NE would have picked him. The Pats have lost both Trey Flowers and Kyle Van Noy in consecutive years. I don’t think it’s impossible to think both teams Dugger rated higher. They always preach BPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoon Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 Sometimes the things you miss out on turn out to be blessings. The die is cast. Now we wait to see how it plays out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 7 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: I think that you got it here. The reality is there were multiple times in this draft that the Bills wanted someone else but couldn’t get him. It doesn’t mean that they don’t like the guys that they got but they liked other guys more. That happens to every team in every draft. I don’t get why this is so hard for some people to understand. You’ve got a board full of people, you can like more than one guy and often someone is going to take your first choice before he falls to you. You move on and do the best you can. Every round, every year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 25 minutes ago, JerseyBills said: Exactly . Epenesa was widely regarded as the best DE not named Chase Young. Don't think Buf passes on him if Dugger is available too. Much more valuable position and much safer pick I suppose they could have liked Dugger more. But again I'm glad the Cheaters made it easier for them because I didn't want him. Now we'll have to see how AJE does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 I really like Siran Neal, and I like the way he has developed. That said here are some alternative big nickel ideas... To me the best guy would be Eric Reid. I know a lot of people would not be happy with him, but he’s done it before and did some of it in Carolina. Honestly, he is the perfect fit for that position. Tall, long, fast, big, versatile and smart. But not sure they go there....however, Reid could be a key piece that truly makes this a championship level defense. The other would be Obi Melifonwu. Big guy, suprememly athletic. Not the intelligent, savvy player that Reid would give you, but Obi probably has some unlocked potential there. If you want more of a linebacker, maybe it is worth it to take a look at Darron Lee. I have never been a big fan of his game, but he could find a nice niche here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountain Man Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 13 hours ago, FireChans said: I find it so odd this year there are so many folks who don’t know you. TBD band wagoners? Maybe some people just would like to judge the evidence as they see it. People can respect experienced voices but equally challenge them. In this era more than ever before, information is used as a tool, positively and negatively, so it's entirely reasonable for people not to accept everything they hear on a topic such as this without challenge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 2 hours ago, Mountain Man said: Maybe some people just would like to judge the evidence as they see it. People can respect experienced voices but equally challenge them. In this era more than ever before, information is used as a tool, positively and negatively, so it's entirely reasonable for people not to accept everything they hear on a topic such as this without challenge And I totally appreciate that and do it often on here. With that being said, I don’t put anything like that on here unless I know it to be true. That is true for some others here as well. There are a lot of things that float around through PM that are things that some of us heard but aren’t sure on. If it makes it on the main board that’s because it is true. None of us want to put anything out here that they THINK is true because you subject yourself to criticism if it’s proven false. At the same time there is absolutely no benefit to being right. It’s just easier to say nothing. If there is something that you know to be true though, and it won’t be damaging if it comes out it may end up shared. This community comprises the best Bills fans in the world imo. Personally, I don’t care who chooses to believe what. Skepticism is healthy. Just know that what ends up on here as “info” is only a fraction of what’s been discussed amongst board members that hear things. Unless they are certain that it’s true it doesn’t end up here. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 17 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said: All of this reminds me - where the hell has @BADOLBILZ been??? Who cares? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 Epenesa was slotted as a first round talent & in some circles compared to Chase Young as one of the top DE's in this draft and i'm stoked he was there at the Bills pick, I'm pretty sure given Beane's history that if both players were there at their pick he would have taken Epenesa because of his profile by most NFL evaluators . I find it hard to believe that no other team took him before he got to the Bills pick but i sure am glad he was !! With the young core players of Epenesa, Harry, Oliver, Edmunds, Millano, White, this D should be able to be a force for quite a while ? !! GO BILLS !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 Wasn’t there a guy who had to go to high level interest meetings or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 On 4/30/2020 at 10:16 AM, Doc said: Not over Epenesa. I'm glad the Cheaters made it easy for them. Could have been the thought to was that Epenesa would never have been their at 54, so if we can get Dugger great! But agree thinking may have changed once they saw who they still could take. That is the one position too the team needs to get younger at, so having him, Oliver and Phillips helps there quite a bit. That allows you to sign some short term older pass rushing specialist at the other end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCofNC Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 Hopefully, Eppy is an example of teams putting too much stock in the combine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoon Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 Why? Big nickel? Slot? Have a guy on hand to avoid paying Hyde? Too good to pass up? i dont disbelieve the rumor but it leaves me thinking “why?” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 (edited) All I can add is, my Pats* fan friends were LIVID when they picked Dugger. "They drafted a ST guy in the second round?" was their response. I actually tried to tell them he looks to be a very talented and versatile DB/LB. The kind Belicheat* covets. He could be the next Chung. They weren't having it. EDIT: I should add, that made me very happy. They think BB* has lost a couple "steps". Edited May 2, 2020 by The Dean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 I'm telling you, 4D chess by McBeane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIZ Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 Maybe Beane had a leak he was trying to seal or was just using his wizardry on poor old Belechick. “Hey guys we’re trading up for Dugger”. Belechick sees a chance to pay back Beane for stealing Corey Bojorquez and drafts Dugger. Epenesa then falls to the Bills and Beane drafts him. Mission accomplished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 On 4/30/2020 at 7:30 AM, Kirby Jackson said: I wouldn’t be so sure that Epenesa was higher. I heard this as of the start of round 2. Dugger was their guy. What was their plan for Dugger if they had taken him? He’s not beating out Poyer or Hyde any time soon... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 1 minute ago, mannc said: What was their plan for Dugger if they had taken him? He’s not beating out Poyer or Hyde any time soon... They are in nickel like 60% of the time or something like that. I think that you’d have seen a ton of Dugger mostly at the expense of Klein. They would have played all 3. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterStrategist Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 29 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: They are in nickel like 60% of the time or something like that. I think that you’d have seen a ton of Dugger mostly at the expense of Klein. They would have played all 3. Not doubting your sources about possibly drafting Dugger, but when we play nickel Taron better be on the field or our new 7th rounder. If we take a 2nd rounder to play a "specialty" position like big nickel, i think that would have been a huge misuse of the valuable pick. We picked up Jefferson to play a hybrid role, replacing Shaq and 3 technique rusher. But with Epenesa, you have a perfect replacement and possible upgrade at left end immediately. If we need someone to play "big nickel" so.bad, there are plenty of strong safety types than can bump down to LB. Including Neal and Marlowe, already on the team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 49 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: They are in nickel like 60% of the time or something like that. I think that you’d have seen a ton of Dugger mostly at the expense of Klein. They would have played all 3. Sean only uses two linebackers in nickel. Tremaine and Milano are 100% the 2 Duggar would have had to beat out a safety or the slot corner this season and he's not the greatest coverage guy right now so I couldn't really see him beating out them If he improves his awareness in zone he can be really good 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 47 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Sean only uses two linebackers in nickel. Tremaine and Milano are 100% the 2 Duggar would have had to beat out a safety or the slot corner this season and he's not the greatest coverage guy right now so I couldn't really see him beating out them If he improves his awareness in zone he can be really good The third DB is a lot of times a safety. Big nickel is a huge staple of our defense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, FireChans said: The third DB is a lot of times a safety. Big nickel is a huge staple of our defense Big nickel is about 25% of his nickel personnel He sends Taron or Kevin Johnson out about 75% of the time. Neal played about 16% of the snaps with Marlowe around 10% and that was his big nickel personnel He runs it but its not his base nickel. Edited May 2, 2020 by Buffalo716 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 7 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Big nickel is about 25% of his nickel personnel He sends Taron or Kevin Johnson out about 75% of the time. Neal played about 16% of the snaps with Marlowe around 10% and that was his big nickel personnel He runs it but its not his base nickel. That’s true, but they probably liked Dugger a lot more than Neal and Marlowe. So if that bumps up to 35-45% of defensive nickle snaps, thats a big chunk. Not to mention ST that Dugger has proven to be able to play on. There’s value there, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 Just now, FireChans said: That’s true, but they probably liked Dugger a lot more than Neal and Marlowe. So if that bumps up to 35-45% of defensive nickle snaps, thats a big chunk. Not to mention ST that Dugger has proven to be able to play on. There’s value there, IMO. Those are all valid points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 12 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: Could have been the thought to was that Epenesa would never have been their at 54, so if we can get Dugger great! But agree thinking may have changed once they saw who they still could take. That is the one position too the team needs to get younger at, so having him, Oliver and Phillips helps there quite a bit. That allows you to sign some short term older pass rushing specialist at the other end or maybe like the pats had dugger higher, the bills did too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 Said this in the Espenosa thread on draft day. Not a surprise. He was that hybrid guy McDermott covets for his defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo44 Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 I doubt they would have taken dugger over Epenesa as Epenesa is higher rated and can be utilized more in our D. Now, what would have been interesting is if Diggs would have lasted to 54. Epenesa or Diggs? Probably still Epenesa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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