The Lateral

[SirAndrew]

4 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

You're both nuts.  He threw the lateral while falling to the ground after the hit.  It was careless and I'm sure he could take that decision back if he could.  Just a lack of situational awareness as we had enough time left.

I’ve been a Josh Allen fan since late last season. I doubted the pick, but came around after watching him last season. I’m more hopeful for the future than I ever was with our other QB’s. However, I learned yesterday that some fans will always wear Bills goggles. You can’t say anything truthful about some players performances without absurd excuses. Everyone who isn’t a Bills fan saw Allen playing spastic football In the second half where he looked an ultra talented guy who was just learning how to play the game. We still have a bright future, but Allen has a lot to learn. It’s ridiculous to think otherwise. That lateral was one of the worst mental errors I’ve seen in the postseason. 

[NoSaint]

50 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I don’t care so much about the lateral.  Will someone please explain to me what on Earth he was doing throwing to the FB in double coverage in OT?  There was no reason to do that and it led me to conclude that Allen was concussed.

jokes aside, on that Cunningham hit he may have been and I was a little surprised they didn’t check him - though it’d take A LOT for the official to make that call

[nkreed]

50 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I don’t care so much about the lateral.  Will someone please explain to me what on Earth he was doing throwing to the FB in double coverage in OT?  There was no reason to do that and it led me to conclude that Allen was concussed.

Almost no doubt he was concussed on that QB sweep where he was drilled helmet to helmet.

[Kmart128]

Please i see players do that all the time and people love them for it when it goes correctly. Only issue was Knox wasnt expecting it and instead of going towards open field he went towards Allen and pitch went over his head.

 

If he had hit Knox... everyone would have loved the play saying how he is so creative and can see things that others cant. In retrospect it was a harmless play that lost 3 to 4 yards of field position. 

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

Upon review of the play...

 

Allen last eye checks with Knox while Allen is on the run an at roughly 30-31 yard line.

 

Allen then is hit, does a 360 and laterals at the 48-49.

 

So...roughly 20 yards after last seeing Knox, Allen assumes Knox is anywhere near him?  Just doesn’t add up that this was anyway a plan.

[Beast]

Knox was not in the clear. Can we stop with that false narrative?

 

Can we also stop trying to justify one of the dumbest damned things I have ever witnessed happen on a football field?

Edited January 5, 2020 by Binghamton Beast

[BarleyNY]

2 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I don’t care so much about the lateral.  Will someone please explain to me what on Earth he was doing throwing to the FB in double coverage in OT?  There was no reason to do that and it led me to conclude that Allen was concussed.

Allen did take a shot to the head on one of his runs in the game. I’ll have to look to see if the horrible decision making started after that.  It would make a lot of sense. 

2 hours ago, nkreed said:

Almost no doubt he was concussed on that QB sweep where he was drilled helmet to helmet.

That’s the play I was thinking of.  I was surprised he wasn’t checked out by the medical people after that. 

[dave mcbride]

Um ... the play did stop the clock, which the Bills needed ...

[Real McClappy]

3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Um ... the play did stop the clock, which the Bills needed ...

It was a crazy play but the ball going OB basically gave us a free timeout when we had none. That was actually pretty huge as a ton of time would have ran off the clock if Josh was tackled in bounds.

Edited January 5, 2020 by Real McNasty

[jaybee]

If Nathan Peterman or any other quarterback we've had makes that play, darn near this entire board would be saying to get rid of them. For whatever reason Josh gets a pass on this site. People are afraid to admit when he makes bonehead plays. Instead they blame the fat guys up front or the offensive coordinator. Make no mistake about it if Josh doesn't improve next year we are in deep trouble. So far he does not look like a quarterback capable of winning a championship despite his off the charts athleticism.

[Captain Caveman]

14 minutes ago, Real McNasty said:

It was a crazy play but the ball going OB basically gave us a free timeout when we had none. That was actually pretty huge as a ton of time would have ran off the clock if Josh was tackled in bounds.

 

Sure, but it just as easily could have been a penalty if Knox doesn't touch it or a turnover if the Texans get to it, and we had enough time on the clock to not take that risk.

[Real McClappy]

16 minutes ago, Captain Caveman said:

 

Sure, but it just as easily could have been a penalty if Knox doesn't touch it or a turnover if the Texans get to it, and we had enough time on the clock to not take that risk.

We didn't have enough time on the clock with 1 min and no timeouts around the 50. 

 

What penalty?

 

Didn't we tie the game and go to OT?

 

It's like saying, Josh almost lost the ball or we almost won the game. 

[Beast]

45 minutes ago, jaybee said:

If Nathan Peterman or any other quarterback we've had makes that play, darn near this entire board would be saying to get rid of them. For whatever reason Josh gets a pass on this site. People are afraid to admit when he makes bonehead plays. Instead they blame the fat guys up front or the offensive coordinator. Make no mistake about it if Josh doesn't improve next year we are in deep trouble. So far he does not look like a quarterback capable of winning a championship despite his off the charts athleticism.

 

Plenty of people are justifiably blaming Allen for that stupid play.

 

Plenty of people are also justifiably not hopping off the kids bandwagon.

 

He has a lot to learn. The tools are there. Lets hope he develops upstairs.

[Marvlevydraftdaygenius]

8 hours ago, StHustle said:

 

Wow. What a brazen attempt to sugar coat s*** right here. Sad part is I know you actually believe what you are saying. TERRIBLE decision by a professional QB in that situation. He unnecessarily put the whole game at risk with that decision. You simply CANNOT make such boneheaded, backyard football decisions. That was like preseason rookie mistake stuff right there.

He was going g to Knox.  Knox blew this game period if you also look to overtime when they called the run off tackle all knox had to do is block the defensive back and josh would have gone to the end zone.  This dawson knox is so overrated give me sweeney over knox.

 

[Boatdrinks]

5 hours ago, HardyBoy said:

 

Tre did a very similar thing after a game sealing int earlier this year and they said he gave himself up. That in no way should be a touchdown, it would have been garbage.

Completely different situation as it was an INT ( the rules don’t call for a signal from an intercepting player fo obvious reasons) and White made no effort to advance the ball. He may have even went to the ground. In this case the ruling would have been correct and absolutely should have been a TD for the Bills. If it was the other way around, the TD would have stood and the Bills coaching and player would be skewered for not knowing the rules. 

The lateral was a reckless play in many ways, but it did not cost the Bills this football game. It didn’t even cost them the chance to win , so it’s pretty pointless to think of what calamity may have happened if HOU recovers, etc. 

[Bangarang]

Dumb decision on his part. Fortunately Knox was smart enough to knock it OOB

[Matt_In_NH]

He just tried to do too much

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

It was dumb play that ended up working out for us because I think it stopped the clock right? I absolutely love Allen and as weird as it sounds it's plays like that that make me love him. Dude is so unpredictable. As I said early in the season I think after the Bengals game, the guy will absolutely rip our hearts out in some games with his hero ball mentality. But he'll also lead us to about an equal number of victories over his career in Buffalo with that same mentality. Learn to love it Bills fans! 

[Putin]

9 hours ago, BillsGuyOutWest said:

Call me as crazy as the decision itself, but I think you got to credit Josh’ for his killer instinct going for that lateral at the end of regulation. 

It appeared Knox clear path to the end zone and a full head of steam. If they connect, it’d be the next Minneapolis miracle and you’d see it replayed every year during playoff time.  

 

Also, unless Allen completely lost his mind, my assumption is the lateral  is something they’d at least messed around with in practice before. I can’t see It being a completely rogue decision on the fly. Knox didn’t do him any favors by looking as bewildered as the rest of the country, but that’s probably more due to the pressure of the moment.  
 

That’s just the way Allen plays, he wants to win no matter what it takes. Whatever the hell it is he has will alternately frustrate you and dazzle you. We saw what “ball control” got us at the end anyway. The simple fact is the longer you let teams hang around, the more vulnerable you become  to bad calls, bad bounces, etc. Good on him for trying to put it away right there. 
 

All this at the end of the day  is supposed to be entertainment, give me one of the most exciting players in the league with a ton of upside as our QB and I’ll gladly strap in and enjoy the ride when he decides to try and flip the next one.  

 

 

. 

Its a good thing that my head is shaved because pulling my hair would have been my first reaction after watching this bone headed play , so instead I yelled and scared the living crap out of dog 

[Motorin']

4 minutes ago, mattynh said:

He just tried to do too much

 

He did. And I think he has the opportunity to learn from this and grow by leaps and bounds. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

20 minutes ago, Marvlevydraftdaygenius said:

He was going g to Knox.  Knox blew this game period if you also look to overtime when they called the run off tackle all knox had to do is block the defensive back and josh would have gone to the end zone.  This dawson knox is so overrated give me sweeney over knox.

 

 

 

That play was killer. It was probably ball game. Allen picks up 7 yards there at minimum if not a first down. I think it would have put us at the 35 yard line worst case scenario. Second and 3 yard to go. Call two straight running plays from the 35 yard line maybe pick up the first down. Worst case scenario probably kicking a 50 yard FG to win it.

 

BUT, Knox still has a ton of talent. There was a play earlier maybe the same drive in overtime even where we had a 3rd and 12 i think. Allen threw it short of the stick to an open Knox on the sideline. Knox still had one man to beat and about five yards to get the first. As soon as I saw that it was Knox that he targeted I knew we had a good shot to pick up the first. That is the kind of talent Knox has. He can easily and regularly beat one defender.

[Buffarukus]

nice outlook but...it was really dumb. i could see if he was upright and tossed it in his chest. your in the middle being tackled and your spinning around and toss a hail mary heave in a general direction when you are not in a do or die situation.....not cool man. 

[DBilz2500]

Honestly, why is this even being discussed as a big deal? He was trying to make a big play, unlike QBs of our past, and it didn’t work. The ball still went out of bounds and it actually stopped the clock so in essence we gained a free Timeout. It was risky but meant nothing in the grand scheme of things. 

[Da webster guy]

6 hours ago, HardyBoy said:

 

Tre did a very similar thing after a game sealing int earlier this year and they said he gave himself up. That in no way should be a touchdown, it would have been garbage.

Agree 100%

 

We all said after they ruled he gave himself up that it would have been something the Patriots would whine about but not Bills fans.  We didn't deserve a TD there.

[HappyDays]

7 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

Josh took a 20 yard sack on 4th and 23 that almost ended the game except BOB inexplicably went for it on 4th and 1.

 

What should he have done on 4th and 23? Thrown the ball away? Given up on the play and take the sack without trying to escape? I'm genuinely curious what you think.

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

What should he have done on 4th and 23? Thrown the ball away? Given up on the play and take the sack without trying to escape? I'm genuinely curious what you think.

Throw the ball at a receiver would be my first desire.

 

It’s just situational football. If we don’t convert on 4th and 23 (I know, I know, very unlikely) the only chance we have is if we force a 3 and out with all 3 timeouts. Which is what happened. Except Josh took another 20 yards on top of it, which almost put them in FG range. Allowing 3 points there basically ends the game. BOB’s idiocy to attempt the sneak aside, that sack was really stupid. Especially when it came after the intentional grounding idiocy which took us out of FG range in the first place.

 

Its LOSING football. It’s bad.

[Iron Maiden]

I like Josh....but there's no way to sugar coat that play...it was stupid......he'll learn....

[WotAGuy]

5 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I don’t care so much about the lateral.  Will someone please explain to me what on Earth he was doing throwing to the FB in double coverage in OT?  There was no reason to do that and it led me to conclude that Allen was concussed.

I thought he looked concussed for most of the latter part of the 4th quarter.  He had a strange expression during that time and played far differently than he usually does in late game situations.  Many strange decisions that seemed to indicate he just wanted the game to end one way or another.  When it kept going, he just looked more and more confused. 

Edited January 5, 2020 by WotAGuy

[Putin]

15 minutes ago, DBilz2500 said:

Honestly, why is this even being discussed as a big deal? He was trying to make a big play, unlike QBs of our past, and it didn’t work. The ball still went out of bounds and it actually stopped the clock so in essence we gained a free Timeout. It was risky but meant nothing in the grand scheme of things. 

Knox kicked the ball out of bounce , it could have easily went the other way at the end it did work out in our favor but IMHO it was far from being a smart play 

[HalftimeAdjustment]

The lateral was dumb, but I thought it was intended to get a clock stoppage. Not a good decision, but I was less shocked by it than some of the other events (throwing to DiMarco after having 5+ seconds to scan the field; losing 36 yards on 2 plays; dropping the ball without being touched; and the run with Gore in a critical time situation costing us 2 downs).

[WotAGuy]

9 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Throw the ball at a receiver would be my first desire.

 

It’s just situational football. If we don’t convert on 4th and 23 (I know, I know, very unlikely) the only chance we have is if we force a 3 and out with all 3 timeouts. Which is what happened. Except Josh took another 20 yards on top of it, which almost put them in FG range. Allowing 3 points there basically ends the game. BOB’s idiocy to attempt the sneak aside, that sack was really stupid. Especially when it came after the intentional grounding idiocy which took us out of FG range in the first place.

 

Its LOSING football. It’s bad.

I can’t blame him for trying to make something happen.
 

I mean, Watson probably should have just taken the sack when he had two guys coming onto him, but he made the play of the season out of it. 
 

I really feel Allen wasn’t all there mentally in the late stages, possibly from a concussion. But it’s his nature to try and make a play in that situation. Sometimes it turns to crap and sometimes it turns to gold, like Watson made happen. 

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, WotAGuy said:

I can’t blame him for trying to make something happen.
 

I mean, Watson probably should have just taken the sack when he had two guys coming onto him, but he made the play of the season out of it. 
 

I really feel Allen wasn’t all there mentally in the late stages, possibly from a concussion. But it’s his nature to try and make a play in that situation. Sometimes it turns to crap and sometimes it turns to gold, like Watson made happen. 

Making something happen? He lost 40 yards in 2 plays when we needed a field goal to tie with 3 minutes left. He tried to make LOSING happen. 

 

Same thing with that lateral. Just a completely idiotic play at the absolute wrong time.

 

Josh played like it was the last play of the game for half of the second half. He was absolutely out of control. 

[DBilz2500]

4 minutes ago, Putin said:

Knox kicked the ball out of bounce , it could have easily went the other way at the end it did work out in our favor but IMHO it was far from being a smart play 

Wasn’t smart I agree but sometimes in desperate situations and in the playoffs you have to take chances. My point is in the end the play didn’t really cost us any field position, we didn’t get a penalty and we actually gained a free timeout so in reality it’s a moot point as it didn’t really hurt our chances one way or the other. 

[HappyDays]

14 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Throw the ball at a receiver would be my first desire.

 

It’s just situational football. If we don’t convert on 4th and 23 (I know, I know, very unlikely) the only chance we have is if we force a 3 and out with all 3 timeouts.

 

The pass rush got there too quick for receivers to get open. So that option is out. Unless he just throws the ball away and gives up on the down? But to my next point...

 

Situational football is on the coaches. What we should have done is punted. A 4th and 23 is near impossible to complete. Instead they put the ball in Allen's hands and said we want you to try and convert this. His options were either give up on the down or try to run around and make something happen. Neither one is a good option but I'll take my QB trying to make something happen over giving up.

 

There are plenty of plays you can criticize Allen for in this game. The 4th and 23 isn't one of them.

[Nextmanup]

9 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

You're both nuts.  He threw the lateral while falling to the ground after the hit.  It was careless and I'm sure he could take that decision back if he could.  Just a lack of situational awareness as we had enough time left.

Thank you.  The play was not only HORRIBLE, it was "YOU JUST CAN'T DO THAT" level of horrible.

 

Josh has had those moments throughout his career.  Every time he has one, his apologists here say "Learning moment, it's OK, he'll improve from this."  But he really never has.  

And he went into meltdown mode multiple times in the playoff game.  

 

It's why they love to keep him on a tight leash in the pocket, pretending he's Drew Brees.  They know that when he runs around and goes all squirrelly good things happen but lots of really bad things happen too.

 

 

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

The pass rush got there too quick for receivers to get open. So that option is out. Unless he just throws the ball away and gives up on the down? But to my next point...

 

Situational football is on the coaches. What we should have done is punted. A 4th and 23 is near impossible to complete. Instead they put the ball in Allen's hands and said we want you to try and convert this. His options were either give up on the down or try to run around and make something happen. Neither one is a good option but I'll take my QB trying to make something happen over giving up.

 

There are plenty of plays you can criticize Allen for in this game. The 4th and 23 isn't one of them.

Yeah man, if the Texans kicked a FG and hit it and put us down 6, I wouldn’t have patted Josh on the head for the 20 yard loss.

 

How about throwing to a receiver who isn’t “Wyoming-open” and trying to draw a PI? Did you and Josh think that on 4th and 23 someone was going to get wide open just past the sticks?

[Nextmanup]

2 hours ago, Binghamton Beast said:

 

Plenty of people are justifiably blaming Allen for that stupid play.

 

Plenty of people are also justifiably not hopping off the kids bandwagon.

 

He has a lot to learn. The tools are there. Lets hope he develops upstairs.

How much time do you personally give him and when does he graduate from school?

When will you personally hold him accountable to have learned and perform at a higher level?

 

Next season?  5 years?  More?

 

 

[Billl]

4 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Making something happen? He lost 40 yards in 2 plays when we needed a field goal to tie with 3 minutes left. He tried to make LOSING happen. 

 

Same thing with that lateral. Just a completely idiotic play at the absolute wrong time.

 

Josh played like it was the last play of the game for half of the second half. He was absolutely out of control. 

It’s fascinating watching people tie themselves into pretzels to excuse what is literally as dumb of a playin a critical situation as I’ve ever seen...and that’s just one of several he made.  I mean, I’m pretty sure I heard him yell “500” as he was chucking a jump ball to his double covered FULLBACK.

[Nextmanup]

6 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Yeah man, if the Texans kicked a FG and hit it and put us down 6, I wouldn’t have patted Josh on the head for the 20 yard loss.

 

How about throwing to a receiver who isn’t “Wyoming-open” and trying to draw a PI? Did you and Josh think that on 4th and 23 someone was going to get wide open just past the sticks?

Thank you.  Josh is very similar to Tyrod Taylor in that both quarterbacks think "open" in the NFL means "wide open receiver, standing still, with no defender anywhere near him."

 

They then both usually accurately throw to the open receiver.

 

This is one reason why Josh's completion % is so poor.  He is LATE on most of his throws b/c he needs to see separation before he will throw.  He very rarely anticipates separation and throws before it is made, such that the moment the receiver does achieve a moment of small separation, the ball is already right where it needs to be.

 

Josh Allen is simply not good enough to quarterback on that level, and he's never going to be.

 

The question all season long has been "maybe he can do just enough, despite his shortcomings, to achieve a level of success."

I think we all saw that.  Beating bad teams by low scores?  He can do that.

 

Hanging tough in a loss to really good teams?  Check! 

 

Going on the road and beating a decent team with a QB?  That's over Josh's ceiling.

 

I have said this all year long.

 

Ultimately, I think fan perception and tolerance of Josh will not change until enough time passes with no meaningful improvement.

 

I think we will FINALLY get to that point next season.

 

When Josh is still Josh all of next year, folks will start to whisper for a new QB.

 

I just wish we could all speed this process up.  We're not getting any younger.

 

 

 

Edited January 5, 2020 by Nextmanup

[LABILLBACKER]

That lateral was complete stupidity and it should of been his 3rd fumble. I used to think his deep throws was what Josh needs to work on in the offseason. Now I think Jordan Palmer may want to spend a couple weeks on ball security.