Armchair QB Whisperers beware! Pros see Allen differently.

[NewEra]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Good assessment by Matt Parrino

 

https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/2019/12/why-buffalo-bills-loss-to-patriots-was-still-a-win-for-josh-allen.html

Cole Beasley said there is no question mark when it comes to Allen. Saturday night’s performance confirmed the slot receivers’ assessment.

“I knew it wasn’t going to be the same guy that played them the first time. Everybody in the locker room knew that,” Beasley said. “We have a lot of faith in him and that dude’s gonna be one of the best quarterbacks in the league.”

Allen’s two touchdown passes were results of deep balls. Encouraging for Bills fans as their quarterback has struggled in that area all season. The first was a perfect ball to rookie tight end Dawson Knox, setting up a one-yard touchdown pass to left tackle Dion Dawkins. The second was maybe the best play he’s made in his NFL career. Under pressure, Allen stood in the pocket, saw receiver John Brown make a filthy move on Stephon Gilmore and then run away from Mccourty and floated it out perfectly to the streaking speedster.

Allen made plays with his legs and his arm.

 

 

Fixed

Just now, london_bills said:

Defenders only

There is no “only”, but there are some types of posters that are not allowed.  Like the ones that only show their face after a loss and cry and whine and whine and cry about the same thing over and over even when it isn’t warranted.  
 

maybe you should read the board a bit more. You’d be able to easily identify the “crusaders”/“trolls”.  

[Big Gun]

1 hour ago, london_bills said:

Thing is, It doesn't matter if your ceiling is sky high if you are going to play large chunks of the game like your very low basement. 

You should probably stick to soccer!

[Tcali]

1 hour ago, SWATeam said:

We all know about the wow plays.  What we need to see is making the average plays consistently.

 

Im hopeful that will come but it’s not there yet.

that sums it up perfectly 

[london_bills]

3 minutes ago, pop gun said:

You should probably stick to soccer!

LOL

A phrase from the film 'a few good men' comes to mind. ?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, arcane said:

Allen gets every missed throw microanalyzed like no QB I've ever seen in my life, and it's because of his draft profile, and the fact that people had stronger negative opinions of him before ever seeing an NFL snap than any Bills draft pick I've ever seen. 

While he's obviously still growing, every time I turn on another game and watch other good QBs, I laugh, and say to myself at least 10 times a game that if our QB had made that throw, there'd be 15 total pages on it between all of the threads. QBs miss throws, especially against NE, BAL, and PIT. and against those 3 defenses, he got better each week. he went from being horrendous 10-19 yards down the field to a top 5 QB in that range in one offseason. He's played in fewer than 30 games. We're in a good spot.

 

On the one hand, you're absolutely correct, Allen gets microanalyzed, not just here but by every analyst, stats geek, and commentator with or without whiskers and a Cat.

 

On the other hand, the best QBs in the league have completion % >mid-60s.  Some of it is the drops - a middle-of-the-pack 4.5% drops would give him 61% completions.

 

Some of it is too many inaccurate throws.  I once did the calculations on how many more completions per game it worked out to with Fitzy, and it broke my heart eventually, so not going there.

[thebandit27]

14 minutes ago, london_bills said:

Defenders only

 

Don't go that route man. You've made a decent discussion out of your points. There are a few others that don't 

[Big Gun]

55 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

CBS Pregame had Boomer praising Josh Allen and said he is the Bills QB for the next 10 years.

 

Getting some playoff experience will be good for the young man.

He has a lot to work on and we know he will put in the effort.

I still see him improving and EVERYONE will have to wait to see how much it will be.

We know he is really really good when the Bills are trailing and the pressure is on in the 4th quarter. He has succeeded way more then not. 

 

I'm really excited to see how he handles the pressure of a playoff game, my bet is he passes with flying colors. 

 

The kid is a gamer and a winner with drive and desire to succeed, how can any Bills fan not be a fan of that? If you're not a fan of that are you really a Bills fan!

[ColoradoBills]

5 minutes ago, pop gun said:

We know he is really really good when the Bills are trailing and the pressure is on in the 4th quarter. He has succeeded way more then not. 

 

I'm really excited to see how he handles the pressure of a playoff game, my bet is he passes with flying colors. 

 

The kid is a gamer and a winner with drive and desire to succeed, how can any Bills fan not be a fan of that? If you're not a fan of that are you really a Bills fan!

 

I tend to agree with all you said.

IF I had anything to say about JA it would be he needs to work on being more consistent earlier in games.

Sometimes it seems he's a little too tight to start.  Experience can help with that.

[london_bills]

12 minutes ago, pop gun said:

We know he is really really good when the Bills are trailing and the pressure is on in the 4th quarter. He has succeeded way more then not. 

 

I'm really excited to see how he handles the pressure of a playoff game, my bet is he passes with flying colors. 

 

The kid is a gamer and a winner with drive and desire to succeed, how can any Bills fan not be a fan of that? If you're not a fan of that are you really a Bills fan!

All of this I agree with. Dont let this blind you to accurate criticism of the QB though. 

[GoBills808]

6 minutes ago, london_bills said:

All of this I agree with. Dont let this blind you to accurate criticism of the QB though. 

And don’t let it blind you to the fact that there are people arguing your side who believe Duck Hodges is a better quarterback.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

2 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Josh is making some of the same mistakes now that he made nearly 2 years ago.

 

Are we sure he's progressing and "learning" ???

 

His completion % is more what I'd call regressing to the mean.

 

 

 

This is just not credible, sorry. He outperformed the balance of the league’s QB’s that have played NE so far this year (also heard Tirico say it was the first deep TD given up by Gilmore all year, and tied for most passing TD’s in game against them) and was miles better than game 1 showing, so how can you carry that type of a specious argument with a straight face? We’ve gone 2-2 through the most difficult part of our schedule and were “in” every game. Things are trending up, but if you choose to always look at this club as a glass half full sort of thing, then I don’t know what to tell you. It’s the most wonderful time of the year...playoffs for Buffalo, Christmas around the corner and you negative nellies need to get with the program!!!

[TwistofFate]

2 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

Yes, actually it is...

No its not.   3 quarters of less then inspired play, followed by a magic 4th quarter week in and out is pretty much what it is. 

[Success]

If everyone isn’t exactly as excited about Allen as I am, they’re wrong.

 

Fans always let the perfect be the enemy of the good.  Of course he has tons of room for improvement, but he will and already has.  He has everything you need in a franchise QB - particularly how he plays in the 4th, on prime time and in big moments.

[billsfan1959]

Just now, TwistofFate said:

No its not.   3 quarters of less then inspired play, followed by a magic 4th quarter week in and out is pretty much what it is. 

 

You truly have very little ability to objectively analyze Allen's play. 

[Punching Bag]

2 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

He picks an article by a  Pats*** fan and ignores a number of "actual" national media members singing Allen's praises. This board is almost insufferable after a loss with the handful of posters who feel the need to take over every thread with their "Allen might possibly be the worst QB who has ever picked up a football in the history of the sport" posts...

 

Almost like they went looking for worst article to bash the Bills starting QB.  I have seen fairer reviews by opposing fans and media.

[Tesla03]

funny how our offense looks good when Allen does things on the fly and improvises 

 

almost as if our scheme is the problem and not the QB

[Punching Bag]

Just now, Tesla03 said:

funny how our offense looks good when Allen does things on the fly and improvises 

 

almost as if our scheme is the problem and not the QB

 

Or opponents know scheme.

[NoSaint]

2 hours ago, BillsFanSD said:

This board, man.  It's like some people care more about being proved "right" about an argument from two years ago than actually seeing the team do well.  If I were an Allen hater, I think it would be a lot more fun to just say "Boy am I glad my pre-draft analysis was wrong" and enjoy the 10-win season and playoff spot than walk around miserable all the time.

meh.

 

if you were super high pre draft you might as easily say “even though I can’t say I’m right I’m glad the teams rallied around him” 

 

both sides will see what they want around a guy with potential that has not put it together yet 

[TwistofFate]

1 minute ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

You truly have very little ability to objectively analyze Allen's play. 

I disagree.  Im more than fair.  There's no doubt he makes some magic plays, but there's no doubt his bad is really bad. 

 

If I remember correctly, when Allen is over 60% completion we 9-0.  When he's under, we are 1-5.

 

His accuracy and completion % is and always was his downfall. 

 

If these metrics don't improve and improve quickly, next year will be a disaster, especially because of the success we've had this year will lead to a much more difficult schedule next year. 

 

Year 3, there will be no excuses. 

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

 

2 of the 4 horsemen that make up the crusade crew have spoken 

 

 

Only 4?

[H2o]

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

Absurd?  Im just going to leave this right here.   This is and objective review of Allen by the same national media.  (with clips in link) 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/boston.cbslocal.com/2019/12/22/josh-allen-was-terrible-great-afc-title-game-preview-leftover-patriots-thoughts/amp/

 

 

I don't think "objective review of Allen by national media" and "Michael F. Hurley, CBS Boston WBV TV" belong in the same sentence.

He's a local Boston sportswriter

[Augie]

2 hours ago, london_bills said:

Ok. He's not throwing picks. Let's see if he progresses to improve everything. 

 

(Not to be argumentative but the majority of the first half was the Allen of last year.) 

 

BUT, It was against the Patriots*, and it was NOT the Allen of the first meeting this year. That IS progress. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Josh is making some of the same mistakes now that he made nearly 2 years ago.

Are we sure he's progressing and "learning" ???

His completion % is more what I'd call regressing to the mean.

 

His center says he's sure.  Sounded pretty spontaneous.

His WR say they're sure (1 having career year and 2nd 1000+ yd season, one 55 yds shy of career year)

His to-the-point and chary-of-praise head coach in his presser said "I thought he played well" (which is not what he's said of some earlier games)

 

Time will tell, and meantime you go on and have whatever view pleases you.

 

[TwistofFate]

9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't think "objective review of Allen by national media" and "Michael F. Hurley, CBS Boston WBV TV" belong in the same sentence.

He's a local Boston sportswriter

Who works for CBS sports, aka national media. 

 

And that article in and of itself was completely objective.  No bias whatsoever. 

[MJS]

If it were up to me I'd ban all the Allen haters. Not because they deserve to be banned, but because I'm sick of reading garbage. Same with the McDermott haters. I don't want to have to sift through mindless garbage.

 

Here we have a regime that broke the drought, rebuilt the team, wins games, goes to the playoffs two times out of three, double digit wins for the first time this century, built a top 3 defense, and people still talk bad about them. We've got a QB who just wins games, comes up clutch when it matters, is an athletic freak, and pushes the ball down the field and we have fans who still bash him.

 

Just do us all a favor and go root for the Patriots.

[Saratoga Leo]

10 minutes ago, MJS said:

If it were up to me I'd ban all the Allen haters. Not because they deserve to be banned, but because I'm sick of reading garbage. Same with the McDermott haters. I don't want to have to sift through mindless garbage.

 

Here we have a regime that broke the drought, rebuilt the team, wins games, goes to the playoffs two times out of three, double digit wins for the first time this century, built a top 3 defense, and people still talk bad about them. We've got a QB who just wins games, comes up clutch when it matters, is an athletic freak, and pushes the ball down the field and we have fans who still bash him.

 

Just do us all a favor and go root for the Patriots.

 

Perfectly stated. 100% agree. 

[John from Riverside]

4 hours ago, london_bills said:

Thing is, It doesn't matter if your ceiling is sky high if you are going to play large chunks of the game like your very low basement. 

2nd year QB

Super Raw

Two legit NFL wide receivers then a sea of jags

 

For christ sake....your team is at 10 wins and he is a big reason why

[downunderbill]

2 hours ago, Real McNasty said:

Where do you see regression from year1 to 2?

 

ear	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	1D	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	NY/A	ANY/A	Sk%	4QC	GWD	AV
2018	22	BUF	QB	17	12	11	5-6-0	169	320	52.8	2074	10	3.1	12	3.8	89	75	6.5	5.4	12.3	172.8	67.9	49.8	28	213	5.35	4.37	8.0	2	3	6
2019	23	BUF	QB	17	15	15	10-5-0	268	456	58.8	3084	20	4.4	9	2.0	146	53	6.8	6.8	11.5	205.6	85.6	46.5	38	237	5.76	5.75	7.7	4	5

 

 

 

The dude would make Flat Earthers envious the way he picks and chooses what suits his opinion. 

 

2 hours ago, london_bills said:

Something is going on mentally with him that is affecting his technique. If you watch his presser he talks about having to sort this out. 

 

That first Pats game did a number on him, he didn't seem to have an over-throwing issue until then.

[Phil The Thrill]

4 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/2019/12/josh-allens-ceiling-is-sky-high-national-media-members-react-to-buffalo-bills-qb.html

 

4 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/2019/12/josh-allens-ceiling-is-sky-high-national-media-members-react-to-buffalo-bills-qb.html

Those comments are such BS.  I mean you don’t think that former coaches and players that have actually played in the NFL or who cover the NFL for a living, know more about the position than a couple of math nerds putting numbers into spreadsheets, do you?

[london_bills]

25 minutes ago, downunderbill said:

 

The dude would make Flat Earthers envious the way he picks and chooses what suits his opinion. 

 

 

That first Pats game did a number on him, he didn't seem to have an over-throwing issue until then.

Yeah. There's the overthrowing but also what I would describe as not seeing the game, flustered, jittery, intimidated. 

 

I do remember last year in green Bay was similar. He just looks a different player like a switch is turned. 

[Solomon Grundy]

Get this guy another receiving threat and a RB and watch out!!

[london_bills]

33 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

2nd year QB

Super Raw

Two legit NFL wide receivers then a sea of jags

 

For christ sake....your team is at 10 wins and he is a big reason why

You see I disagree with 'he is a big reason why' we are at 10 wins. He is not a big reason why. He is a part of it absolutely, at times he is a reason why but not in total.

 

The accumulation of talent and depth, Coach motivation and the defence are a bigger reason as to why we are at 10 wins than Allen alone, generally speaking. 

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

BUT, It was against the Patriots*, and it was NOT the Allen of the first meeting this year. That IS progress. 

True. 

[FanSince60]

I believe we have to remember that Josh is a very young man growing into the game. Think back to Jim Kelly. He was highly sought after. A star at a major University. Miami Hurricanes. He was a professional star with the USFL. Yet his early times with the Bills he showed the require to grow for a time. He surely wasn’t a HOF Quarterback to begin with.

 

Provide Josh with a better OL. Give him another top WR and time to learn.

 

He will be a good one....

[Buffalo716]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

His center says he's sure.  Sounded pretty spontaneous.

His WR say they're sure (1 having career year and 2nd 1000+ yd season, one 55 yds shy of career year)

His to-the-point and chary-of-praise head coach in his presser said "I thought he played well" (which is not what he's said of some earlier games)

 

Time will tell, and meantime you go on and have whatever view pleases you.

 

Josh Allen is going to be a stud for a long time

 

I don't put my name behind most QBs or any QB from the Bills in the last 20 years

 

Allen's my guy. Beasley said he would get into a bar fight for him and so would I

 

 

 

Edited December 22, 2019 by Buffalo716

[Nitro]

Perspective is needed.  Jim Kelly, with 2 seasons of USFL football, comes to Buffalo.  His first two seasons he throws 41TDs, 28 INTs and 59 % completion rate.  Josh Allen has, in 2 seasons, 30 TDs, 21 INTs and 56% completion rate.  Comparable stats.  Give the young man to grow and develop.  He can be a good QB in this league

[John from Riverside]

20 minutes ago, london_bills said:

You see I disagree with 'he is a big reason why' we are at 10 wins. He is not a big reason why. He is a part of it absolutely, at times he is a reason why but not in total.

 

The accumulation of talent and depth, Coach motivation and the defence are a bigger reason as to why we are at 10 wins than Allen alone, generally speaking. 

True. 

London,

Where do you think our offensive production comes from on this 10 win team?   Do you realize just how hard it is to even find a starting QB in this league?  Josh Allen is probably the BEST qb we have even had on the roster since Jim Kelly

 

The reason why I say "big reason" and not "reason" is because with our defense we would be no where.....but you actually have to be able to score points to.   Josh Allen provides a good amount of that production.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, TwistofFate said:

Who works for CBS sports, aka national media. 

 

Bzzzt.  Working for the local affiliate of the CBS network is not the same as working for national media.  "I cover sports for wbz".  Direct from the guy's own twitter.

 

1 hour ago, TwistofFate said:

And that article in and of itself was completely objective.  No bias whatsoever. 

 

You're a Funny Dude.  I don't think you intend to be a humorist, but you are.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

26 minutes ago, Nitro said:

Perspective is needed.  Jim Kelly, with 2 seasons of USFL football, comes to Buffalo.  His first two seasons he throws 41TDs, 28 INTs and 59 % completion rate.  Josh Allen has, in 2 seasons, 30 TDs, 21 INTs and 56% completion rate.  Comparable stats.  Give the young man to grow and develop.  He can be a good QB in this league

 

The objection that wil be offered is that the completion percentage is typically much higher now a days

[Buffalo ill]

6 hours ago, Irv said:

I'm astonished at the cannon the guy has.  I'm also astonished that an NFL caliber QB can't hit a wide open Beasly 15 yards away.  Seems to be throwing off the back foot a lot.  

 

 

 

It feels like he either misses an open guy or hits them in BOTH hands and they drop it.