If Playing Time is earned, why not Un-earned! (edited)

[plenzmd1]

I want to see McDermott this week walk the walk and not just talk the talk. Granted we do not see practice, but based on performance in games I think these folks have “ earned “ a seat or very reduced snap count

 

1) Lee Smith. Maybe some offensive guru can provide me the reason why the Bills are better when he in the game in 12 personnel, but on the surface I don’t see it. Add in his ridiculous penalty rate and I am just at a loss. Sweeney deserves to play and dress over him. Maybe 85 is instrumental on ST’s or something. 

 

2) Frank Gore. Think his age is starting to show, and he is just not getting the job done. And if the game plan continues to focus on passing, why not have your best pass catching back out there. Not like either of these guys play on teams. Gore has earned an inactive too. Damn, Reid can air Shady, McD can sit a guy who is a first year player for him. 

 

3) Wallace. Yep, he gunna get targeted like crazy with teams shying away form 27, but that doesn’t meant trying Johnson outvtjeee should not be considered. I know Wallace does not play inside, so sitting may require him to be inactive, so be it. 

 

I would also also say Murphy, just not sure that there is a better option either not active or on the PS.

 

In the end,  I think all McD s rhetoric can be lost he does not practice what he preaches. 

[Numark3]

2 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

I want to see McDermott this week walk the walk and not just talk the talk. Granted we do not see practice, but based on performance in games I think these folks have “ earned “ a seat or very reduced snap count

 

1) Lee Smith. Maybe some offensive guru can provide me the reason why the Bills are better when he in the game in 12 personnel, but on the surface I don’t see it. Add in his ridiculous penalty rate and I am just at a loss. Sweeney deserves to play and dress over him. Maybe 85 is instrumental on ST’s or something. 

 

2) Frank Gore. Think his age is starting to show, and he is just not getting the job done. And if the game plan continues to focus on passing, why not have your best pass catching back out there. Not like either of these guys play on teams. Gore has earned an inactive too. Damn, Reid can air Shady, McD can sit a guy who is a first year player for him. 

 

3) Wallace. Yep, he gunna get targeted like crazy with teams shying away form 27, but that doesn’t meant trying Johnson outvtjeee should not be considered. I know Wallace does not play inside, so sitting may require him to be inactive, so be it. 

 

I would also also say Murphy, just not sure that there is a better option either not active or on the PS.

 

In the end,  I think all McD s rhetoric can be lost he does not practice what he preaches. 

frank gore’s role HAS gone significantly down

[plenzmd1]

Just now, Crayola64 said:

frank gore’s role HAS gone significantly down

Agree, but the logical step then is to have him on the inactive list and play Yeldon, whonis a much bigger receiving threat. 

[wvbillsfan]

Seems like Foster earned his with his play last year and then unearned it this year. 
But I get the point some players need less playing time if we are going by the earn it mantra 

[Houston's #1 Bills Fan]

Agree with all the above. Lee Smith is a huge liability. We have Kroft, Knox and Sweeney. If he's only blocking, but not getting penalties, then he's worth it. Otherwise, sit your ass down! Gore - yeah, the miles are catching up. Keep him active, but more Singletary. Wallace - This is the worst one. Burned, then re-burned and burned again. You HAVE to try something else.

 

I'll add the Star is also a liability. Put Corey Liuget or Vincent Taylor in to replace. I don't care how much we've paid the man!!

[Mark80]

Lee Smith is atrocious.  He was the first time he was on the team and he still is today.  Penalty after penalty after penalty.  And they are pretty much all stupid penalties too.  Pre-snap.  Holding guys when they are already out of the play.  Its absurd seeing him on the field still.

[Johnny Hammersticks]

Can’t disagree with anything here.  I’ll add Bob Foster.  Give me Duke Williams next week.

[H2o]

You know how you know Lee Smith is on the field? He's getting penalized for something. 

[Iverwig]

This is why I don’t have confidence in this staff. They continue to play players who should not be playing. Lee Smith should not be on this team but yet continues to see the field. Gore looks slow but at least he’s contributed to the team this year Lee Smith has hindered the team in every games he’s played. 

[msw2112]

This isn't the first we have seen this.  I hate to give anyone nightmares, but remember Vlad....This staff does seem to be stubborn when it comes to making personnel moves with veteran players who are not carrying their weight.  I'm still a supporter of the staff, but this does frustrate me (as does the "strategy" at the end of yesterday's game, but that was addressed in another thread).  Lee Smith is known as a great run blocker.  If there was evidence of our great run game with him leading the charge, you can put up with a penalty or two.  There is no such evidence (that I have seen) and the penalties are horrible.  Smith is a class act and a great locker room/sideline guy, and that's where he needs to show his influence - in the locker room and on the sideline.  Not on the field.

[row_33]

it's changed the last 20 years, used to be you messed up again and you didn't get back in, especially in the NHL

 

now who cares, out you go to screw up again with the same mistake all the live-long game

 

 

Edited November 11, 2019 by row_33

[Buffalo Junction]

1 hour ago, H2o said:

You know how you know Lee Smith is on the field? He's getting penalized for something. 

I was gonna say Gore’s running for 2 yards, but the penalties work too. 

Edited November 11, 2019 by Buffalo Junction

[YoloinOhio]

All very good points. I think they put up with Lee Smith penalties because he’s truly a valuable blocker/finisher and big part of their game plan. I think Singletary usage will go up but only if the defense doesn’t stack the box. I do think Wallace is going to get a hard look vs Kevin Johnson. This week won’t be the one to worry about as much as the next time we play a really good WR tandem 

[Solomon Grundy]

7 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

All very good points. I think they put up with Lee Smith penalties because he’s truly a valuable blocker/finisher and big part of their game plan. I think Singletary usage will go up but only if the defense doesn’t stack the box. I do think Wallace is going to get a hard look vs Kevin Johnson. This week won’t be the one to worry about as much as the next time we play a really good WR tandem 

Yolo, sometimes you have to weigh the good vs the bad. Smith's good (blocking)< Smith's bad (penalties). This guy is a seasoned pro. This shouldn't be happening weekly.

[thebandit27]

9 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

All very good points. I think they put up with Lee Smith penalties because he’s truly a valuable blocker/finisher and big part of their game plan. I think Singletary usage will go up but only if the defense doesn’t stack the box. I do think Wallace is going to get a hard look vs Kevin Johnson. This week won’t be the one to worry about as much as the next time we play a really good WR tandem 

 

Only because Preston Williams is hurt. He abused Levi last time around.

[Lurker]

12 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 I do think Wallace is going to get a hard look vs Kevin Johnson. This week won’t be the one to worry about as much as the next time we play a really good WR tandem 

 

It depends on whether they stick to zone or have to go man-to-man, which where Wallace got exposed yesterday.   

 

I think they'll throw a lot of zone at Fitzpatrick and make him have to dink and dunk to move down the field...

[YoloinOhio]

6 minutes ago, the skycap said:

Yolo, sometimes you have to weigh the good vs the bad. Smith's good (blocking)< Smith's bad (penalties). This guy is a seasoned pro. This shouldn't be happening weekly.

Not saying it is what i would do -  saying I think its what they are doing 

Just now, Lurker said:

 

It depends on whether they stick to zone or have to go man-to-man, which where Wallace got exposed yesterday.   

 

I think they'll throw a lot of zone at Fitzpatrick and make him have to dink and dunk to move down the field...

They were correct to go man vs Baker who struggles with that coverage, but Levi is definitely a better zone corner 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Buffalo Junction]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

All very good points. I think they put up with Lee Smith penalties because he’s truly a valuable blocker/finisher and big part of their game plan. I think Singletary usage will go up but only if the defense doesn’t stack the box. I do think Wallace is going to get a hard look vs Kevin Johnson. This week won’t be the one to worry about as much as the next time we play a really good WR tandem 

My issue here is that the combination of Gore and Smith is functioning as a key for the defense.... It’s why Smith was wide open on that TD pass earlier in the season. Sadly, Daboll hasn’t really gone back to that or much else when both players are in the game at the same time. On the slight chance that Daboll call that play 3/4 of the defense can chase Smith down in the open field. 

[SoCal Deek]

15 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

I like Frazier.  I'm glad he's in Buffalo.  I just hope McD listens to him from time to time. (I'd love to hear Leslie's take on Lee Smith!)

[billsfan_34]

3 hours ago, Iverwig said:

This is why I don’t have confidence in this staff. They continue to play players who should not be playing. Lee Smith should not be on this team but yet continues to see the field. Gore looks slow but at least he’s contributed to the team this year Lee Smith has hindered the team in every games he’s played. 

Gore is done- we are better off with Yeldon in there.

[YoloinOhio]

22 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I like Frazier.  I'm glad he's in Buffalo.  I just hope McD listens to him from time to time. (I'd love to hear Leslie's take on Lee Smith!)

I really like him too. Think he will get HC looks again. 

[Big Turk]

It can be. But you have to have a backup player that you think will be an upgrade first.

5 hours ago, plenzmd1 said:

I want to see McDermott this week walk the walk and not just talk the talk. Granted we do not see practice, but based on performance in games I think these folks have “ earned “ a seat or very reduced snap count

 

1) Lee Smith. Maybe some offensive guru can provide me the reason why the Bills are better when he in the game in 12 personnel, but on the surface I don’t see it. Add in his ridiculous penalty rate and I am just at a loss. Sweeney deserves to play and dress over him. Maybe 85 is instrumental on ST’s or something. 

 

2) Frank Gore. Think his age is starting to show, and he is just not getting the job done. And if the game plan continues to focus on passing, why not have your best pass catching back out there. Not like either of these guys play on teams. Gore has earned an inactive too. Damn, Reid can air Shady, McD can sit a guy who is a first year player for him. 

 

3) Wallace. Yep, he gunna get targeted like crazy with teams shying away form 27, but that doesn’t meant trying Johnson outvtjeee should not be considered. I know Wallace does not play inside, so sitting may require him to be inactive, so be it. 

 

I would also also say Murphy, just not sure that there is a better option either not active or on the PS.

 

In the end,  I think all McD s rhetoric can be lost he does not practice what he preaches. 

 

Why would you make Wallace inactive if you put Kevin Johnson in? He would be the backup at both CB positions.

 

Taron Johnson is a slot corner and is not going to play on the boundary.

[fansince88]

6 hours ago, plenzmd1 said:

I want to see McDermott this week walk the walk and not just talk the talk. Granted we do not see practice, but based on performance in games I think these folks have “ earned “ a seat or very reduced snap count

 

1) Lee Smith. Maybe some offensive guru can provide me the reason why the Bills are better when he in the game in 12 personnel, but on the surface I don’t see it. Add in his ridiculous penalty rate and I am just at a loss. Sweeney deserves to play and dress over him. Maybe 85 is instrumental on ST’s or something. 

 

2) Frank Gore. Think his age is starting to show, and he is just not getting the job done. And if the game plan continues to focus on passing, why not have your best pass catching back out there. Not like either of these guys play on teams. Gore has earned an inactive too. Damn, Reid can air Shady, McD can sit a guy who is a first year player for him. 

 

3) Wallace. Yep, he gunna get targeted like crazy with teams shying away form 27, but that doesn’t meant trying Johnson outvtjeee should not be considered. I know Wallace does not play inside, so sitting may require him to be inactive, so be it. 

 

I would also also say Murphy, just not sure that there is a better option either not active or on the PS.

 

In the end,  I think all McD s rhetoric can be lost he does not practice what he preaches. 

I dont disagree. That said. How many penalties for how many yards to date? Guess?

[HOUSE]

Does anyone actually listen to  head coaches anymore, that went out in the 70s

 

 

[EmotionallyUnstable]

Vlad gave Lee Smith those pictures on the way out of town...

[MrClean]

I agree on Lee Smith. I never liked him in his first stint with the Bills and I still don’t. He’s actually a pretty decent blocker but he’s a hot head and let’s that get in the way and he’s a penalty machine. 

 

Deactivating Gore would be a huge mistake. While I agree he has struggled for the last two weeks he’s still looked up to by his teammates for his dedication, enthusiasm, leadership, unselfishness, and knowledge. You don’t deactivate a guy like that on a close knit team. He’s going to make some key plays down the stretch, trust me. 

 

Wallace is a tough one. He is definitely getting picked on but he has also had himself in position a lot. I couldn’t figure out how he missed swatting the one ball down to Landry on Sunday. I think he’s learning and may prove to be an asset. 

 

Just my 2 cents 

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Wallace is a serious liability.  Everyone now knows that and exploits it.  So why is he still starting?

[billsfan714]

Lee Smith should have a negative stat line.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

I can't say McD doesn't walk the talk. It's just that he is terribly inconsistent in how he applies his values. Which is really interesting because one of the hallmarks of Lean and Toyota Management System is to reduce variation.

Oliver snaps have gone down. Harrison Phillips and Jordan Phillips snaps have gone up. 

I agree completely with your assessment of L. Smith and Gore. Neither deserve to dress. I would go with Kroft, Knox, and Sweeney at this point or just Kroft and Knox with an extra OL on game day. 

Wallace has played too well and made too many good plays to sit. The reality is they play nickel a ton and he is best suited on outside with T. Johnson in the slot. The only viable option is K. Johnson. I'd be fine if he got a series or two to play. 

The player that should lose playing time is Murphy and Lawson should get more snaps. Makes no sense Murphy had highest number of DL snaps.

[NoSaint]

6 hours ago, Houston's #1 Bills Fan said:

Agree with all the above. Lee Smith is a huge liability. We have Kroft, Knox and Sweeney. If he's only blocking, but not getting penalties, then he's worth it. Otherwise, sit your ass down! Gore - yeah, the miles are catching up. Keep him active, but more Singletary. Wallace - This is the worst one. Burned, then re-burned and burned again. You HAVE to try something else.

 

I'll add the Star is also a liability. Put Corey Liuget or Vincent Taylor in to replace. I don't care how much we've paid the man!!

Our 6th lineman is a better blocker and equal receiving threat. 
 

Lee Smith has never made sense to me. I’ve been posting this commentary for years.  And somehow he’s back. And on a healthy contract.

Edited November 12, 2019 by NoSaint

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 minutes ago, MrClean said:

I agree on Lee Smith. I never liked him in his first stint with the Bills and I still don’t. He’s actually a pretty decent blocker but he’s a hot head and let’s that get in the way and he’s a penalty machine. 

 

He's a solid blocker but he's not necessarily clever about it.  He gets called too much for holds.

 

McDermott was questioned pretty straightly and directly about Lee Smith and his penalties and he said "he's got to get locked in" and  "presnap penalties are non-negotiable"

And yet, they keep happening and Smith keeps playing. 

 

And then there are his holding penalties, what about them?

 

6 minutes ago, MrClean said:

Deactivating Gore would be a huge mistake. While I agree he has struggled for the last two weeks he’s still looked up to by his teammates for his dedication, enthusiasm, leadership, unselfishness, and knowledge. You don’t deactivate a guy like that on a close knit team. He’s going to make some key plays down the stretch, trust me. 

 

I have the impression from what's been said that McDermott views Gore's struggles as on the OL for not controlling the LOS.

[Reed83HOF]

6 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

 I’ve been posting this commentary for years.  And somehow he’s back. And on healthy contract.

 

not you personally & i agree, but this is one of the funniest things I have ever read

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I agree completely with your assessment of L. Smith and Gore. Neither deserve to dress. I would go with Kroft, Knox, and Sweeney at this point or just Kroft and Knox with an extra OL on game day. 

 

So help me understand what you see from Kroft that enthuses you.  He's seen his snaps dropping since Philly.  Either he's suffered some relapse, swelling or something, and he's on a snap count, or the coaches are under-impressed.

 

Knox shows promise but he's got an 19% drop rate at present (8 drops to 18 receptions).  That is simply unacceptable.

 

6 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Wallace has played too well and made too many good plays to sit. The reality is they play nickel a ton and he is best suited on outside with T. Johnson in the slot. The only viable option is K. Johnson. I'd be fine if he got a series or two to play. 

 

Frazier said they were going to look at Kevin Johnson as a possible rotation in the next couple days.  McDermott praised Wallace for owning responsibility and said we have to figure out how to help him.

 

 

[billsfan89]

If Kevin Johnson is available I don't see why he shouldn't get a chance to play instead of Levi who is quickly becoming a liability. Lee Smith is a specialist who has done very little but I think the staff see value in that role. Gore seems to be phased out more after the Skins game where he sucked and Singletary broke out. I think Gore can still get a few carries a game in short yardage situations, he seems to have a lot of respect in the locker room and I Think his struggles are in part to do with the O-line. 

 

So I think that McD will on occasion make these types of moves along the roster to pull playing time. Hopefully they make that kind of move. 

Edited November 12, 2019 by billsfan89

[Livinginthepast]

What was McD's rationale behind no Duke Williams yesterday? Was he inactive, not used or injured?

[CaptnCoke11]

8 hours ago, Crayola64 said:

frank gore’s role HAS gone significantly down

So did Singletarys

[Buddo]

Lee Smith has been penalized 9 times, with one of those declined. 5 false starts and 4 holding penalties. Tied for 2nd mmost in the NFL - there are 3 guys above him on 10 penalties.

Everyone above him (and quite a lot just below) are tackles.

Smith is the most penalized Bill by far. With the exception of Spain, the rest of the O-Line are the nearest contenders. And they aren't really close.

[plenzmd1]

9 hours ago, fansince88 said:

I dont disagree. That said. How many penalties for how many yards to date? Guess?

Don’t know then yards , but he has 8 penalties, good for 3 Ed most in the NFL, and has only participated in a little less then 40 percent of snaps. 

 

I will guarantee his penalty to snap ratio is 2x the next closest player. 

[fansince88]

38 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

Don’t know then yards , but he has 8 penalties, good for 3 Ed most in the NFL, and has only participated in a little less then 40 percent of snaps. 

 

I will guarantee his penalty to snap ratio is 2x the next closest player. 

51 yards.