Bills at Browns Post Game Post Mortem

[BillsFanSD]

2 minutes ago, Success said:

I was happy w/ his play overall, also.  I find the over-the-top criticism of him to be irrational - he deserves some blame, but he's actually progressing fairly well for a 2nd year guy.

 

Not sure what people expect at this point of his career.

 

I agree.  He led what should have been a game-winning drive, and then followed it up with what should have been an over-time-forcing drive.  Clearly not a perfect game by any means, but he was fine.

[atlbillsfan1975]

i can’t believe McDermott got out coached by Freddie Kitchen. Just pathetic. McDermott is a great motivator and culture coach. McDermott leaves a lot to be desired on game day.

[Ray Finkel]

15 minutes ago, dubs said:

Blaming play calling is ignorant. 
 

these players need to make plays. It starts with Allen and the Oline.

 

the NFL isn’t techmo bowl when picking the wrong play is a jailbreak. 

OC can’t make the QB see receivers that are open.  He doesn’t read the whole field.  He consistently doesn’t see open receivers

[Happy]

1 minute ago, PatsFanNH said:

Keep the faith my friend! Any given Sunday! I mean who expected the chiefs to lose to Tannahill and the Titans! (And Mahomes had a killer game I think over 409 yards and 3 TDS?)

 

Thanks, but today was a special kind of incompetence on coaching and execution.  It's always something each week.

[Locomark]

8 minutes ago, london_bills said:

I'll stick my neck on the line. 

 

Josh Allen does not have it. 

I’ll stick my neck out and say no QB will succeed in this offense without a WR1 and a top notch RB. When you don’t give your QB the option to throw a quick check when they are giving you a 12 yard cushion, or you run a screen with no secondary target, you also have some OC issues. Josh’s proveit period will be next year for me.  What is he 18 games in ?? Kelly sucked in his first year here and he had 3 years of pro ball before that running an open gun offense. This kid came for a dink program. He is behind because of that.

[realtruelove]

4 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

If Josh hits a WIDE OPEN McKenzie, is this game even close? 

 

McKenzie stopped running.  Watch that play again.

[SCBills]

2 minutes ago, vincec said:

In order to create takeaways you really need to have a strong pass rush to force mistakes by the QB. And the Bills do not. That needs to be addressed in the offseason.

Agreed, but so frustrated that we’ve so heavily invested in the defense and they can’t stop the run or rush the passer.  

[JohnBonhamRocks]

Allen needs to throw and take care of the football better. Need to run with Singletary more. Run D needs to improve. Hauschka May need to be replaced. Our coach would do well to go for the jugular. 

[Wayne Cubed]

Just now, Nitro said:

Easy to say he was open but factor it that he might have been the third or fourth option and the pass rush forces the play.  

 When do the excuses stop? Josh Allen has a problem with his long ball. Daboll literally gets WR open deep and Josh can’t hit them. Yes it’s a low percentage play but he hasn’t hit 1 this season.

[Sundancer]

Just a little reality check on what the Browns are. Their losses are to:

 

Rams

Pats

Seahawks

Niners

 

and they beat the Ravens.

 

My biggest comlpaint wasn't with Allen's 266 passing...it was the last several plays and the 3 yard throws not playing for the W. Jauron-like offensive feel to that.

Edited November 10, 2019 by Sundancer

[Nitro]

5 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

 

The half that I saw Allen was playing very well and had several plays where you could tell the route combinations were immediately known by the Defense, and the offensive line was completely beat on the jump... 

NcDermott needs to drink a few beers at half and loosen up.  That overly careful act loses you more games than win.

[Ray Finkel]

11 minutes ago, par73 said:

The end of that last drive was brutal. Where was the urgency to score-- or at least get closer? Did they really think that kicker was going to hit from 50+?

I was thinking 7 the way we aero moving the ball.  Like many drives we stalled again.

[JoPar_v2]

Just now, whatdrought said:

 

If a QB missing one low percentage pass is why he's being blamed for the loss, the fanbase doing the blaming has mental health issues... which makes sense given the context. 

 

 

This seems like a fine statement. He outplayed Baker from the 10 minute mark of the 3rd forward from what I saw.

Lol. “Low percentage” pass? There was no one within 10 yards of McKenzie and it wasn’t like Allen had to heave it 80 yards downfield to get it to him. Bojo could have punted it up to McKenzie and got it closer. 
 

seriously hope you’re joking. Those passes are only “low percentage” for Allen. God his excuse makers never stop...Allen and his long ball yips cost them the same amount of points as Hauschka today. 

[whatdrought]

Just now, Conlan58 said:

Lol... "missing one". Next one he hits will be his first, so I'm not sure how you can justify that take, but to each their own.

 

I don't have to justify the take you think I am, because you completely misread the context. 

 

I asked how Allen was to blame for this loss, some poster quoted that specific throw. I said that if that one throw is why Allen is getting blamed by the luddites in this thread, then they're mentally handicapped. 

[london_bills]

I have a hard time believing Allen is suddenly the franchise elite QB with another OC. 

[Sig1Hunter]

Without even reading past page 1....

 

Get a grip. Good grief. 

[LSHMEAB]

4 minutes ago, vincec said:

In order to create takeaways you really need to have a strong pass rush to force mistakes by the QB. And the Bills do not. That needs to be addressed in the offseason.

This. In those critical late game situations against competent QB's, an ELITE defense has playmakers in the front 7 disrupting timing and MAKING A play.

 

This is two weeks in a row without a turnover. 

 

Good defense. Not good enough to carry this team considering the anemic offense. I feel like if the Bills wanted to make a run THIS season, they would have needed to add a Clark or a Clowney. 

 

In the grand scheme of things, the defense is not the problem and Allen/playcalling/entire offense need to improve or the ceiling is low. But for THIS season, that dynamic player in the front 7 could have changed things.

Edited November 10, 2019 by LSHMEAB

[Happy]

1 minute ago, Tcali said:

good point. but at some point you have to trust/teach/give up on??? JA to see if he will ever learn to throw a deep pass.

 

Yes, Josh has a big problem with long passes.  My point was 3rd and 3 is not the time to fix that!

[Jerome007]

Last year we saw constant progress this year is more puzzling. But while he didn't play great, Josh has only thrown ONE interception in the last 5 games! ONE. So for such an inaccurate, horrible decision QB, he is doing quite fine! All without the support of a running game... O just wish he'd hit the deep balls since with his cannon arm it would be amazing. This year he's missed them all! Crazy. Even his worse critics didn't expect that! But chill out with him being so horrible!

 

 

[njbuff]

Teams lose games, I get that.

 

But when does it come time to go for wins instead of not trying to lose?

 

Not going for the win BURNED the Bills today.

 

Will McDermott learn from this or continue Jauron Ball 2.0?

[atlbillsfan1975]

1 minute ago, FUTURIST said:

 

Yep. You are not winning in the NFL with this McDermott logic of winning with Defense and playing it safe on offense.  McDermott is a dinosaur.

He is going to force Beane to fire him if he doesn’t figure it out. I’m not saying I want McDermott to be fired, but for crying out loud he has to stop coaching scared. 

[Sandhill Mike]

7 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

Give it up.   Play calling was absolutely not the problem.  Those plays were there to be had.   Wake the ***** up.  52% completion percentage was the problem.   

 

Overthrows, under throws, bad throws,  thays the problem.   Dont blame the OC for calling the perfect play your Qb cant execute. 

 

So sick of your excuses.   Allen just isnt good enough.   Face it. Own it.  Devise a plan to FIX IT. 

 

I'm not used to seeing a QB that has to LEARN accuracy and I'm starting to wonder if they're trying to fit a square peg into a round hole with Josh. 

 

We should probably run an offense like Baltimore or Seattle and try to make the most of the tools that he CAN use. 

Edited November 10, 2019 by Sandhill Mike
Narf!

[Agent 91]

27 minutes ago, arcane said:

All week long, in every, *****, thread, a few nagging incessant posters ragged on anyone who expressed nerves about this game, no matter how well thought out and rational the points were. 

You all know who you are. And you were f*cking wrong. They weren't. 

 

Anyone not nervous about EVVERY GAME this season is insane. We have not shown good enough to take any games for granted... who's next week? I'm nervous about that now... They are proving everyone who says we were the worst 6 and 2 team ever to not be boneheads

[TheFunPolice]

Allen is super athletic and tries really hard

 

The offense lacks any sense of rhythm

[Nitro]

1 minute ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 When do the excuses stop? Josh Allen has a problem with his long ball. Daboll literally gets WR open deep and Josh can’t hit them. Yes it’s a low percentage play but he hasn’t hit 1 this season.

Excuses?  I am looking at all the factors on the play.  You want to rip him?  Fine.  Have at it.  I am looking it objectively.  

[Tcali]

Just now, Happy Gilmore said:

 

Yes, Josh has a big problem with long passes.  My point was 3rd and 3 is not the time to fix that!

good QBs throw succesfully on long balls when the D is not expecting it. So maybe it Is the time to fix it

[whatdrought]

Just now, JoPar_v2 said:

Lol. “Low percentage” pass? There was no one within 10 yards of McKenzie and it wasn’t like Allen had to heave it 80 yards downfield to get it to him. Bojo could have punted it up to McKenzie and got it closer. 
 

seriously hope you’re joking. Those passes are only “low percentage” for Allen. God his excuse makers never stop...Allen and his long ball yips cost them the same amount of points as Hauschka today. 

 

This is an incredibly stupid post, not surprising. 

 

It's a low percentage pass because EVERYONE says they are. Passes that travel over 20 or 30 yards or whatever that was are by default, low percentage passes. I wasn't defending the miss, and he needs to hit those. That being said, that play isn't why we lost. 

[Gunsgoodtime]

It's easily been shown, we cant win games with decent offenses, we cant score enough and our defense is not elite

[The Red King]

When arguing who's to blame, remember it could well be "All of the above".  Josh and Haush struggled, our O coordinator called a bad game, not running on a bad run defense.  Ultra-conservative play-calling on both sides of the ball with a gunslinger QB.  This loss does not fall on just one thing.

[dubs]

When we see young QBs like Jackson, Darnold, Mayfield, Jones, and Murray at least show they are capable of big games in the air....and we have yet to see Allen have a single game like that in his career, it’s concerning. 

[london_bills]

2 minutes ago, Locomark said:

I’ll stick my neck out and say no QB will succeed in this offense without a WR1 and a top notch RB. When you don’t give your QB the option to throw a quick check when they are giving you a 12 yard cushion, or you run a screen with no secondary target, you also have some OC issues. Josh’s proveit period will be next year for me.  What is he 18 games in ?? Kelly sucked in his first year here and he had 3 years of pro ball before that running an open gun offense. This kid came for a dink program. He is behind because of that.

Sure. I just don't think he's elite which is what you would want for a 7th pick. 

[mmichii]

2 minutes ago, Mojo44 said:

 Wow! Just wow! I respect all the opinions and statements but this thread needs its title changed to “for irrational catastrophic thinking bills fans only“ it was a tough loss,  it happens. And, would  the majority of you rather not be 6-3. I think that’s a fair question

Yes but it's not irrational. Judged against the best (patriots) they are utter garbage. You can sit here and go oh if only this and only that but championship franchises don't do that.  It doesn't happen. Losing to the browns happens to teams like the bills.  Paper tigers.  This isnt about just this game. It's about all those years going all the way back to the merger.  All that futility.  Until either wins a championship they are garbage.  So you think the patriots go oh he's a good guy or they were close? Hauschka missed that's a fact.  He didn't get it done and hasn't been for a while,  What exactly do you think Belichek would do?  Exactly.  The standard is a championship nothing less. Everything else is failure. 

[Happy]

1 minute ago, LSHMEAB said:

This. In those critical late game situations against competent QB's, an ELITE defense has playmakers in the front 7 disrupting timing and MAKING A play.

 

This is two weeks in a row without a turnover. 

 

Good defense. Not good enough to carry this team considering the anemic offense. 

 

McD also needs to revisit his defensive scheme and the players he has at DE, DT, and MLB

[Agent 91]

28 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I think it’s over now. No playoffs. And after being 6-2 that will be just about the biggest ***** collapse imaginable. This was such a terrible loss today 

We saw this with trent werent we 5 and 2 and ended up like 7 and 9 or something

[Lurker]

Just now, Happy Gilmore said:

 

Thanks, but today was a special kind of incompetence on coaching and execution.  It's always something each week.

 

That's what's so damn frustrating about this team.    They're so, so inconsistent.

 

Fix one thing.  Something else breaks.   Fix that, something else goes.    They can't string series after series together, let alone game after game...

[Conlan58]

1 minute ago, whatdrought said:

 

I don't have to justify the take you think I am, because you completely misread the context. 

 

I asked how Allen was to blame for this loss, some poster quoted that specific throw. I said that if that one throw is why Allen is getting blamed by the luddites in this thread, then they're mentally handicapped. 

I would like to invite you to try to have a conversation without throwing insults around. 

 

You can't honestly tell me that, like I said, if Allen hits that one pass for a TD, he isn't catching the blame he is getting right now. Win or lose, if he hits that pass, most fans place the blame elsewhere.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

....the feared yet expected outcome...WHY?....

[DRA3196]

I know the offense is a work in progress. But right now it has no identity. Not sure why Allen threw 41 times. I thought the Browns had a porous run defense? The last drive was maddening. I don't see the same QB on the field this year that I saw last year. Singletary only had 8 carries. Our Run defense is a pathetic. Edmunds is NOT a middle LB. Wallace looked bad,  Bad game all around. I had hope for the game early when the defense stopped CLE 9 times. 9 TIMES inside the 1. Maddening game. I know this team is growing but we have been regressing since the first qtr of the season. We have looked bad since the NE game. Need to get this straightened out.

[suorangefan4]

16 minutes ago, par73 said:

The end of that last drive was brutal. Where was the urgency to score-- or at least get closer? Did they really think that kicker was going to hit from 50+?

 

I swear clock management by not just the Bills but the majority of the teams across the NFL and college football is absolutely brutal. It's like they have no clue how a clock works.

 

Like yeah let's throw a pass to Singletary.. he gets tackled then let's burn at least 25 seconds before the next play and leave 26 seconds on the gameclock at the CLE 35-yard line. We had 59 seconds left with a timeout left from their 41-yard line then one play later we have 26 seconds left from their 35-yard line. Seriously WTH.

 

I'll see so many scenarios in college where there will be 1:52 on the clock.. the other team has no timeouts left and it's 1st down and the other team comes out and runs a play instead of victory formation. NFL has a lot of issues like that too.

 

The IQ level of so many football players and coaches makes you wonder how they can even tie their own shoelaces.

Edited November 10, 2019 by suorangefan4

[Agent 91]

29 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

Will people finally start believing me that kicker is an issue now, or will I continue to get "Meh, ""Skeptical," and "Confused" reactions? This should be known as The Hauschka Game. I told everyone that he would haunt the Bills this season, and I was right. Now, maybe the spotlight will finally shine on this weakness.

I thought the hold on the second miss was a little off but that doesnt account for the kick being short too