skibum Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Barkley comes out ice cold against the World Champs, and on his first play floats a nice timing pass to Knox (who made an even better catch). He then reels off a few more short to mid range passes. He was in a rhythm immediately. He clearly looks more level-headed out there, gets the ball off faster, and is way more on target with his throws. I think he's the better QB at the moment. Either way, its interesting to look at the total offensive stat line for today. 280 passing yards, 140 on the ground, a 100-yard day from Gore, and 4 receivers put up decent numbers. Not a terrible day, until you see all the TOs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 1 hour ago, MAJBobby said: Best way to look at it. Allen Plays - we are favored Barkley Plays - will will be dogs This is a classic home team -3 game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 48 minutes ago, Maine-iac said: LOL ........... sure Allen won all 3 games by himself. He's also had some great come from behind wins ........ because his turnovers put us behind. Pats were the wake up call. We could have easily lost in the Jets game and Bengals game for no other reason than Allen turns it over too much. and all that and guess what. 3-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 (edited) If Barkley plays, I hope we activate Singletary (as long as he’s good). I understand being cautious with the bye week after but this is a big game, coming off a loss, against another potential WC contender. We’ll need the defense to do their thing and run the ball well so we can build the pass off the run. Area i worry about with Barkley is the red zone. With Allen, we’re incredibly efficient given his dual threat ability. With Barkley were one dimensional at the QB position and he doesn’t exactly have a jump ball guy to throw fades to. Edited September 30, 2019 by SCBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo2218 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, NJKBillsfan said: I know I don't get all the hate. I actually think he gives us a better chance to win than Allen does. I won't go as far as to say he will right now. I wanted to blame the coaches for lack of preparation, but after watching the highlights, Allen isn't playing smart at all. So many times he could have had decent gains instead of throwing deep. He needs to do what the coaches want him to do, take what he's given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo2218 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Whoever is starting, for the love of god, get Knox more involved. If Williams gets called up and practices this week, Barkley may play better than a lot of people think 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 At this point I don't think anyone knows if Josh Allen will successfully make it through the concussion protocol and be able to play next week. Buffalo can use that uncertainty to its advantage. If they can legitimately maintain a public posture of uncertainty, it will make preparation more complicated for the Titans. As it is, the Titans don't have much Barkley tape to look at, particularly with the support cast Buffalo has on offense now. Barkley is limited as a QB, and I think those limitations would be exposed if he were to have to start multiple games, but He might have an impressive performance or two in him this season. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zevo Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 1 minute ago, buffalo2218 said: Whoever is starting, for the love of god, get Knox more involved. If Williams gets called up and practices this week, Barkley may play better than a lot of people think I think he has the smarts...it’s his arm I worry about... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo2218 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Just now, zevo said: I think he has the smarts...it’s his arm I worry about... At this point, smarts may be exactly what's needed with a defense like ours. If Allen had been smarter, we'd have won today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffarukus Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, GoBills808 said: How is it at all obvious that Barkley is better prepared to operate the offense? this has prob already been talked about in this thread but the main difference i saw between the two was the decisions were way quicker with Barkley, and it was refreshing. hike! quick scan, BOOM ball was out. id say every pass from barkley, (when not impeded) was a decent decision that gave the reciever a chance at making the play. unfortunatly alot of innacurate throws, but if on target would have been successful. whats alittle worrisome is barkley was hitting recievers that were not "open" but had favorable positioning. theres a difference and if some of our plays rely on that it could be why josh is holding the ball so long as you have to know them not see them. if knox runs a slant and the d has outside leverage hit him cause his body will shield the defender even if hes in his pocket. if the recievers are covered and going deep while yeldon is running a quick out hit him and see if he can make somthing happen. a reciever 1 on 1 can make alot of plays if you give him good ball placement regardless of the cb distance. josh seems to have 2 main throws, fast and far. hopefully he will learn about backshoulder and touch as he grows and they are dep on positioning not "open" josh is putting it all on his shoulders and barkley seemed to take the opportunities the d gave him. if you had joshes athletism and barkleys exacution, i think our offense would be incredable. of coarse im basically saying i want josh to have the experience barkley has...he will get there. Edited September 30, 2019 by Buffarukus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 At least Barkley will be incapable of continually throwing deep balls, off the wrong foot, that are nowhere near his receivers or to Titan receivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlonce Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 My source tells me Allen is playing so we will be ok. My source can’t be wrong. The type of hit he received is a definitive concussion protocol directive that requires a medical standard of hours not minutes. He will be back next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, SirAndrew said: I agree. TBD needs to watch some Barkley with the Bears tape. He is not a good QB. He’s at Derek Anderson’s level imo. He had a good preseason, so everyone is way too pumped about him. He's not terrible, he's better than "sign him off the street 2018 Derek Anderson," but not nearly as good as prime Derek Anderson (yes, there was such a thing). He's an ordinary backup who can help win you a game against a mediocre team like Tennessee. Having said that, the drop off from even the 2019 Josh Allen isn't all that great .... right now he's reminding me of Trubisky's progression, from pretty awful at the start to a guy who can make big plays in his second year in between frustrating failures. Edited September 30, 2019 by The Frankish Reich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Buffarukus said: this has prob already been talked about in this thread but the main difference i saw between the two was the decisions were way quicker with Barkley, and it was refreshing. hike! quick scan, BOOM ball was out. id say every pass from barkley, (when not impeded) was a decent decision that gave the reciever a chance at making the play. unfortunatly alot of innacurate throws, but if on target would have been successful. whats alittle worrisome is barkley was hitting recievers that were not "open" but had favorable positioning. theres a difference and if some of our plays rely on that it could be why josh is holding the ball so long as you have to know them not see them. if knox runs a slant and the d has outside leverage hit him cause his body will shield the defender even if hes in his pocket. if the recievers are covered and going deep while yeldon is running a quick out hit him and see if he can make somthing happen. a reciever 1 on 1 can make alot of plays if you give him good ball placement regardless of the cb distance. josh is putting it all on his shoulders and barkley seemed to take the opportunities the d gave him. if you had joshes athletism and barkleys exacution i think our offense would be incredable. of coarse im basically saying i want josh to have the experience barkley has...he will get there. This mirrors the exact conversation and coaching he got in the offseason at his QB camp. They discussed how Barkley does not have the arm so he has to play with anticipation, Josh has the arm but does not play with anticipation yet, maybe never we will see - he needs to recognize defenses and throw it to a spot where his receivers have the best chance of making a play on the ball. Josh also seems far too resistant to the concept of checking down to his outlet receiving option - that is the maverick hero-ball that is tough to coach out of him. What no one knows for certain is whether that is something that over time and with more experience Josh can develop. Today, against the Belichick defense, the ball came out too slow as he is not sure where to go with it which led to some late poor decisions under duress. He also needs to get better when facing the 5 and 6 man rushes that both NE, the Giants, and the Bengals used to hurry and confuse him. In all those times I saw Josh having a harder time pulling the trigger with any kind of rhythm. There is a tendency for Josh to start too hyped and erratic and gradually get better as the game goes on, not sure if he just needs enough games to move past that but today served notice to Josh and the coaches that having him lean on running and not sliding is a recipe for Allen getting knocked out of a game - literally. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffarukus Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, WideNine said: This mirrors the exact conversation and coaching he got in the offseason at his QB camp. They discussed how Barkley does not have the arm so he has to play with anticipation, Josh has the arm but does not play with anticipation yet, maybe never we will see - he needs to recognize defenses and throw it to a spot where his receivers have the best chance of making a play on the ball. Josh also seems far too resistant to the concept of checking down to his outlet receiving option - that is the maverick hero-ball that is tough to coach out of him. What no one knows for certain is whether that is something that over time and with more experience Josh can develop. Today, against the Belichick defense, the ball came out too slow as he is not sure where to go with it which led to some late poor decisions under duress. He also needs to get better when facing the 5 and 6 man rushes that both NE, the Giants, and the Bengals used to hurry and confuse him. In all those times I saw Josh having a harder time pulling the trigger with any kind of rhythm. There is a tendency for Josh to start too hyped and erratic and gradually get better as the game goes on, not sure if he just needs enough games to move past that but today served notice to Josh and the coaches that having him lean on running and not sliding is a recipe for Allen getting knocked out of a game - literally. great points. i was hoping when he threw the underthrow td to brown it might have given him a lesson that placement not power can be a great asset. we get upset at some of the drops but it seems if he isnt rifeling it in full speed then its not thrown lol. somtimes im amazed the reciever is plucking a lazer from the air. he really puts the game on his shoulders and i hope he settles down soon. our d can win alot of games but if hes helping the opponent it will make it pretty hard. he needs to trust the defense and severely needs tto understand situations. if we are in fg range nothing matters more then staying there. if a play breaks down...its the nfl, it will happen, ALOT. dont force things. those two facts alone and we have a substantially better shot to win. they are most important immediatly and should be drilled in! everything else will take time and im confident he will learn. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Buffarukus said: great points. i was hoping when he threw the underthrow td to brown it might have given him a lesson that placement not power can be a great asset. we get upset at some of the drops but it seems if he isnt rifeling it in full speed then its not thrown lol. somtimes im amazed the reciever is plucking a lazer from the air. he really puts the game on his shoulders and i hope he settles down soon. our d can win alot of games but if hes helping the opponent it will make it pretty hard. he needs to trust the defense and severely needs tto understand situations. if we are in fg range nothing matters more then staying there. if a play breaks down...its the nfl, it will happen, ALOT. dont force things. those two facts alone and we have a substantially better shot to win. they are most important immediatly and should be drilled in! everything else will take time and im confident he will learn. Both QBs could have used Singletary out there as a change of pace to Gore. Also helps them understand that the whole game is not on their shoulders. We are not in a terrible place with this team and just played a NE team that was slicing through teams like an unstoppable juggernaut and made their offense look pretty pedestrian. We get Singletary back and hopefully Josh gets through this protocol and recommits himself to improving his decision making. Edited September 30, 2019 by WideNine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 If the don't fix the pass blocking--especially the RT play--it won't matter who's at QB. Teams are going to blitz the Bills over and over until they can show they're able to handle it consistently... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 3 hours ago, GG said: Short term vs long term goal? This could be a case where Josh again benefits from sitting down and watching. No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blitz Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 If we have Singletary I'd feel better and the right side of the line has become a problem. Going to be a tough game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickelCity Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Allen was making absurd decisions in the first half. Too amped up? Tried to push like crazy. I would have killed to see him with that 4Q drive. I'm devastated about the concussion and the fact that he isn't a lock for next week. Fingers crossed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo2218 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, pop gun said: No It may not matter if people think it won't benefit him or not. If this hero ball crap keeps on happening, he will ride the pine. 4 picks from doing that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 3 hours ago, FUTURIST said: Barkley is better than Peterman. He is much more like a Trent Dilfer, who won a Super Bowl with an elite defense. I think he is good enough to manage a game and beat anyone if the Defense dominates and they get the running game going. Did we just see 3 years of this kind of hoping from Tyrod, no thanks I'll pass, that style gets old fast. 3 minutes ago, buffalo2218 said: It may not matter if people think it won't benefit him or not. If this hero ball crap keeps on happening, he will ride the pine. 4 picks from doing that He's not riding the pine anytime soon, he's the better QB by miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirAndrew Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 48 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: He's not terrible, he's better than "sign him off the street 2018 Derek Anderson," but not nearly as good as prime Derek Anderson (yes, there was such a thing). He's an ordinary backup who can help win you a game against a mediocre team like Tennessee. Having said that, the drop off from even the 2019 Josh Allen isn't all that great .... right now he's reminding me of Trubisky's progression, from pretty awful at the start to a guy who can make big plays in his second year in between frustrating failures. Barkley is a below average backup QB imo. I really don’t think we beat Tennessee with him as starter, while I like our chances with Allen. I have plenty of posts following the Pats game where I’m a harsh critic of Allen. However, Allen possess ability that Barkley couldn’t dream of. Allen hasn’t been good this season, but there’s still a drop off. Although he makes mistakes, Allen also willed the team to second half victories twice this season. Barkley can’t do that. Maybe Barkley can be a better game manager, but those type of guys lose games. I could see Barkey losing to Tennessee by something like a 10-6 final score. That doesn’t happen with Allen imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Maybe Allen looked like a rookie cause he played a top defense in the league. Way too early to bench the frencheyes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirAndrew Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, pop gun said: Did we just see 3 years of this kind of hoping from Tyrod, no thanks I'll pass, that style gets old fast. Exactly. I’d rather watch Allen be aggressive, regardless of potential failure over a “game manager”. Those guys rarely make head scratching plays, but you also have no upside. There’s nothing like losing a bunch games by scores like 10-7. Edited September 30, 2019 by SirAndrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 3 hours ago, CLTbills said: In what universe has Allen regressed this year? He hasn't, it's just haters hating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnycage46 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 4 hours ago, John from Riverside said: Do we know Josh wont play? Some doctor on Twitter who did not personally evaluate Allen and really just saw what we all saw on TV said it was unlikely he plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 4 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said: I'd feel better about next week if Singletary plays. Barkley will need as much help as possible. He will need to get the ball out quickly since our O-line is struggling with pass protection. The run game and short, quick passes will be a good start, rather than the long ball requiring a longer time of pass protection. The OL opened some massive holes today. Motor would have been a great weapon. The fact he practiced this week , I'd say he's 100% playing and should be a great contribution. I feel like he could have taken one of those runs by Gore to the house. That could be va fantastic 1-2: punch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlonce Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 4 hours ago, GG said: This is really a combination of several threads - Onto the Titans, Josh Concussion Protocol, Daboll offense doesn't score in 1st half, and John Brown talking about how complicated the offense is. I think it's unlikely that Josh plays next week because the NFL doesn't take concussions lightly, and with Bills facing a bye in week 6 they will play it safe with him. We knew that Allen was the least ready of the 2018 prospects, and any great defense will force him into mistakes. That's why Daboll was screaming at him on the sidelines, because he continues to force the ball when it's not necessary. It's also obvious that Josh is having trouble executing Daboll's complex offense and the new players haven't helped the kid yet. Or maybe Allen is emboldened to take more risks with the new guys and that hasn't worked out yet. What is obvious is that Barkley is better prepared to run this offense, as designed, but clearly can't do what Josh can if the play breaks down. I think that another break will be important for Allen to settle down, as he watches Barkley's methodical approach take apart the opposing defenses. I don't think Barkley will struggle next week, and will put together some good tape for Allen to study. Why don’t you think Allen will play? Because he didn’t return? Concussion protocol isn’t a minimal process. He could easily return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 I would have loved to have these games flipped, the bye after NE and Tennessee before. I just have a bad feeling about this game, basically as close to a must win as we’ll have this early but so much emotion was put into the NE game I have a feeling we’ll be very flat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlonce Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 7 minutes ago, Johnnycage46 said: Some doctor on Twitter who did not personally evaluate Allen and really just saw what we all saw on TV said it was unlikely he plays. BS. He didn’t evaluate him, he’s guessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 1 hour ago, buffalo2218 said: I won't go as far as to say he will right now. I wanted to blame the coaches for lack of preparation, but after watching the highlights, Allen isn't playing smart at all. So many times he could have had decent gains instead of throwing deep. He needs to do what the coaches want him to do, take what he's given. So you didnt even watch the game, you watched just the "highlights" and you're here arguing that Allen stinks and Barkley should start. For real dude! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnycage46 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Just now, dlonce said: BS. He didn’t evaluate him, he’s guessing. That's what I'm sayin! Go Bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo2218 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 8 minutes ago, pop gun said: So you didnt even watch the game, you watched just the "highlights" and you're here arguing that Allen stinks and Barkley should start. For real dude! What was there to watch that didn't show Allen making bad decisions? Also, show me where I said Barkley should start over Allen. Don't be like Boca Bills and put words in my mouth, FOR REAL DUDE!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 4 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said: I'd feel better about next week if Singletary plays. Barkley will need as much help as possible. He will need to get the ball out quickly since our O-line is struggling with pass protection. The run game and short, quick passes will be a good start, rather than the long ball requiring a longer time of pass protection. One area that he has a clear advantage on is timing routes. He seems to really thrive off those quick slants. I'm not sure the coaching adapts well though or they would've kept a TE in to help the RT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 3 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said: The best our offense has ever looked with Dabol, was the only game Barkley started. Not saying it will happen again but after a week of #1 reps...my guess is Matt will be much more efficient then Allen. Definitely want Singletary back though. The top of the defense won’t be organicly lifted off by the presence of Allen’s arm. Just don’t tell any of the defenses that although Allen can throw it deep, he never completes it I understand your frustration but you know as well as anyone reading this, that this is not a true statement. Do the completions beyond 25+ yards need to improve this season? Sure, that would be great, and I believe it will improve, as the focus for this offseason was obviously the short to intermediate route tree at the expense of the deep ball from last year that worked swimmingly. When he puts it all together, as he has for every game in the 4th Q to date minus today’s cheap shot special cutting short any last minute heroics, watch out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 16 minutes ago, buffalo2218 said: What was there to watch that didn't show Allen making bad decisions? Also, show me where I said Barkley should start over Allen. Don't be like Boca Bills and put words in my mouth, FOR REAL DUDE!!!! Although you did not come out and say Barkley should start boy you sure insinuated he is smarter and more capable than Allen is, if that's not advocating who you favor(Barkley)I dont know what is Dude! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo2218 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, pop gun said: Although you did not come out and say Barkley should start boy you sure insinuated he is smarter and more capable than Allen is, if that's not advocating who you favor(Barkley)I dont know what is Dude! If I didn't come out and say it, then I didn't say it then did I? Forget your assumptions, I could really care less. One guy tried that on me and I made him look like a bigger fool than he already is. And after today and last week, Allen showed anything but being smart with his decision making. I don't know what Barkley will bring to the table, but I do believe he can read the field better. Give him practice and see what happens. When Allen is cleared, put him back in starting. That clear enough for you? Edited September 30, 2019 by buffalo2218 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayray808 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Barkley canʻt make the throws Allen does, and yet Barkley wonʻt make the high risk throws that Allen does... Will our offense operate better? NO Will our offense have less turnovers? YES But will that also mean we have less points? YES Josh Allen is Big Ben + Brett Favre + Mike Vick - the waves will be super high and super low ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo2218 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, rayray808 said: Barkley canʻt make the throws Allen does, and yet Barkley wonʻt make the high risk throws that Allen does... Why does Barkley have to make the throws Allen makes to move the ball? Will our offense operate better? NO Unfounded since we've yet to see Barkley get adequate preparation with the 1s Will our offense have less turnovers? YES Probably But will that also mean we have less points? YES Again unfounded, Barkley did good enough in this offense to win his only start so far, so why assume he won't score? Josh Allen is Big Ben + Brett Favre + Mike Vick - the waves will be super high and super low ? Josh Allen is very much a work in progress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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