Will offense operate better with Barkley next week?

[Lurker]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

What do you think of Mariota?  Apparently, he’s the only qb to not turn the ball over but sometimes he is so underwhelming. 

 

Per Peter King's column today:

 

"...The most amazing stat (now that Denver isn’t sackless anymore) of the first quarter of the season is Marcus Mariota’s stat line: 62.2 percent accuracy (average), 7-0 TD-to-pick ratio (uh, really?), 7.8 yards per attempt (better than Brady and Rodgers), 106.2 passer rating (better than Brady and Rodgers)." 

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, Lurker said:

 

Per Peter King's column today:

 

"...The most amazing stat (now that Denver isn’t sackless anymore) of the first quarter of the season is Marcus Mariota’s stat line: 62.2 percent accuracy (average), 7-0 TD-to-pick ratio (uh, really?), 7.8 yards per attempt (better than Brady and Rodgers), 106.2 passer rating (better than Brady and Rodgers)." 

And I still don’t know if he’s good haha.  He certainly doesn’t strike fear in your hearts. 

[Mr. WEO]

21 minutes ago, GG said:

 

At this point in time, running the offense that Daboll has installed, I think that Barkley will put up more points.  

 

17 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Daboll's offense presents qbs with a lot of options (the scheme is good and aggressive), and I do think that Barkley gets through progressions a lot faster than Allen at this point. 

 

Lots of conclusions being drawn from a body of work that includes 7 starts (2-5) and only 13 total appearances in 6 seasons on 3 teams.  He has 10 career TDs against 19 INTs (6.2% of his throws!).  He's fumbled the ball 8 times. 

 

He' s completed 24 passes for the Bills.  He's played one full game.  In nearly a full Q yesterday, he led the Offense to 2 punts, turnover on downs, fumbled (recovered) and a game ending INT (his arm was hit after a 2 step drop as he stood like a statue staring down his receiver while Van Noy was barreling down on him.

 

And from this  data anthill, some have determined that Barkley is "better prepared to run this offense"?

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

My guess is he will protect the football better.... maybe. That's the only advantage in starting Barkley. Bills will struggle to score a TD with him starting, IMO.

 

Over 6% of his passes are INTs!  He has 8 fumbles.  The ball deserves better...

 

Here's all they have to do to fix Josh:  "Josh, never take a sack on the run.  Never throw downfield on the run when avoiding a sack".

 

Fixed.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Mr. WEO

[GG]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Over 6% of his passes are INTs!  He has 8 fumbles.  The ball deserves better...

 

Here's all they have to do to fix Josh:  "Josh, never take a sack on the run.  Never throw downfield on the run when avoiding a sack".

 

Fixed.

 

You mean don't do the things you did 4 times AFTER your offensive coordinator was screaming at you on the sidelines not to do? 

 

Maybe the next time he will listen.

[reddogblitz]

18 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Barkley is not good. He's way overrated here. Josh benefits by experience imo. He's a different kind of guy. Three minutes to go, even today when he was awful at times, I wouldn't bet against him. He's still raw. He's going to make more mistakes than most guys.  But he has intangibles and playmaking ability that override a lot of it 

 

Barkley's over rated ness will likely falter if and or when he has a bad game.  We're still waiting for that.  He had 8 yards per attempt.  He was blitzed heavily but held his own.  Besides, back up QB that has hardly played is ALWAYS the most popular guy on the team .

 

It's great that Josh can make plays and lead us in comebacks vs bad teams. If you're gonna beat good teams, you can't dig yourself a 13 point hole as we saw yesterday.  And, he's going to continue to get injured If he doesn't either run less of slide more.  Even though he got clocked on an illegal hit, it's his fault for putting himself in that spot because that's exactly what you'll get.  We saw it last year and again yesterday.  we saw it with Hotrod as well.  We better have a good backup.

 

Josh has had success with the short to mid passing game which seemed to be missing yesterday. Stick to that.  His long ball is a crap shoot.

 

This btw is NOT an endorsement for starting Barkley over Josh.  Only an observation.

 

 

Edited September 30, 2019 by reddogblitz

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, GG said:

 

You mean don't do the things you did 4 times AFTER your offensive coordinator was screaming at you on the sidelines not to do? 

 

Maybe the next time he will listen.

 

Maybe.  But that means there is potential for improvement.

 

We are seeing Barkley as a finished product. 

[reddogblitz]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

We are seeing Barkley as a finished product. 

 

Not saying Matt should start, but what makes you so sure about that?

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

16 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Tyrod is miles better than MB. Kinda insulting to compare them.  And even though he’s a coward and I hate him, Orton is way better too.  Some of you put way too much stock in one game.  

 

I think MB could win but his arm is really weak and he will get destroyed if he has to play a lot.  And I love him coming out of college.  He just doesn’t have the physical tools. 

 

 Some of you put way too much stock  in TT if you ask me. 

Orton was a me first guy and not a complete team player. 

Taylor was a RB who played QB.

Matt Cassel ....  'nuf said. 

 

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Not saying Matt should start, but what makes you so sure about that?

 

The data to this point.  Six years in the league.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Maybe.  But that means there is potential for improvement.

 

We are seeing Barkley as a finished product. 

 

I've said as much,  

We will get what he can offer and not much more.  Nothing should surprise as long as he is playing smart 

[GG]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

The data to this point.  Six years in the league.

 

This is his 5th year in the league, with less games than Allen.

[reddogblitz]

11 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

The data to this point.  Six years in the league.

 

I don't know.  I watched him a little when he played for Cincinatti and he was horrible.  He has played way better for us than he did with them.  And from the highlights of him dropping dimes on Sir Duke, I think he's improved. 

 

Again, not saying I want him to start,  but I don't buy that he can't improve on anything and is all he can ever be.

[dave mcbride]

34 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Good stat.  The Titans might be most forgettable team in the nfl. 

 

Side note Dave. What do you think of Mariota?  Apparently, he’s the only qb to not turn the ball over but sometimes he is so underwhelming. 

I don't know. Every time I think he's lousy, he starts playing well, and vice versa. I think he's basically the epitome of league-average.

[ColoradoBills]

17 hours ago, GG said:

 

There's no QB controversy.  The concussion will be a good excuse for McD and Daboll to sit Allen down because he desperately needs it right now.

 

First, you're right their is no QB controversy.

The concussion is not an excuse to sit JA though.  It will depend on if he can practice this week or not.

I'm not very optimistic with these protocol time lines but everyone will have to see what is going on by Thursday.

 

If he can't go Sunday AND Daboll can put together a game plan that Barkley can execute it could help Josh in the long run.

 

 

[dave mcbride]

31 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Lots of conclusions being drawn from a body of work that includes 7 starts (2-5) and only 13 total appearances in 6 seasons on 3 teams.  He has 10 career TDs against 19 INTs (6.2% of his throws!).  He's fumbled the ball 8 times. 

 

He' s completed 24 passes for the Bills.  He's played one full game.  In nearly a full Q yesterday, he led the Offense to 2 punts, turnover on downs, fumbled (recovered) and a game ending INT (his arm was hit after a 2 step drop as he stood like a statue staring down his receiver while Van Noy was barreling down on him.

 

And from this  data anthill, some have determined that Barkley is "better prepared to run this offense"?

It's more about using your eyes and watching how he plays. It seems patently obvious to me that he gets through reads faster but suffers in the athleticism department. 

[C.Biscuit97]

17 minutes ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

 

 Some of you put way too much stock  in TT if you ask me. 

Orton was a me first guy and not a complete team player. 

Taylor was a RB who played QB.

Matt Cassel ....  'nuf said. 

 

Tyrod did everything better than Barkley as a qb.  There is no comparison between TT and Barkley and I wasn’t even a TT fan.

 

if TT was a rb playing qb (wonder if you said the same thing about Lamar ?) than Barkley is a cheerleader playing qb.

4 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I don't know. Every time I think he's lousy, he starts playing well, and vice versa. I think he's basically the epitome of league-average.

Ryan Tannehill then, which is their backup haha. 

[dave mcbride]

4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Ryan Tannehill then, which is their backup haha. 

 

Statistically, almost everything about him is average, except for his ypa averages, which are pretty good. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MariMa01.htm

 

He does have a nice TD-INT ratio this season (7-0). I'll grant him that.  But his sack rate is too high.

Edited September 30, 2019 by dave mcbride

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

7 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Tyrod did everything better than Barkley as a qb.  There is no comparison between TT and Barkley and I wasn’t even a TT fan.

 

if TT was a rb playing qb (wonder if you said the same thing about Lamar ?) than Barkley is a cheerleader playing qb.

 

We shall agree to disagree.  on who was better.

 

Tuhrod is a RB who plays QB.

Matt is a QB who plays QB.  

 

One I trust more to pass the ball over one who protects the ball.

 

Tyod had GREAT 4th QRT stats in his years in Buffalo with MAYBE 3 or 4 Fourth  QTR winning drivers,

 

In (is it now) 15 games Josh has  had 4 Fourth  QTR winning drivers. 

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

Do people realize that Matt Barkley has had half the starts Josh Allen has had in the league?  He looked pretty good in his last one.  If he has to go this week, I think he will do well.

[Mr. WEO]

30 minutes ago, GG said:

 

This is his 5th year in the league, with less games than Allen.

 

You're right. 5.  Less games than Allen because he is the guy each team that hired him hoed would never have to play.

30 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

I don't know.  I watched him a little when he played for Cincinatti and he was horrible.  He has played way better for us than he did with them.  And from the highlights of him dropping dimes on Sir Duke, I think he's improved. 

 

Again, not saying I want him to start,  but I don't buy that he can't improve on anything and is all he can ever be.

 

He didn't play for Cincy.  Duke is on the PS.  So we are now making conclusions based on how a backup QB looked in preseason with PS guys.

[ColoradoBills]

9 minutes ago, K-GunJimKelly12 said:

Do people realize that Matt Barkley has had half the starts Josh Allen has had in the league?  He looked pretty good in his last one.  If he has to go this week, I think he will do well.

 

MB has only had one real stretch as a starter for 6 games with CHI to end the season in which they were in tank mode for Turbisky.

During that stretch (1-5) the Bears D gave up an average of 31.2 points per game in those 5 losses.

 

Truth is, no one knows that Barkley can do this Sunday with any certainty.  He does have a weaker NFL QB arm and can get into

turnover problems.  When he doesn't he is pretty good.  I don't want him to have to play Sunday but as of now I think he probably will.

 

Daboll will need to put together a good game plan for him to succeed.

[Mr. WEO]

31 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

It's more about using your eyes and watching how he plays. It seems patently obvious to me that he gets through reads faster but suffers in the athleticism department. 

 

Your eyes must be better than mine to see all that in one Q of play this year.

 

But is also "the eyes" that supposedly saw that the Bills gave up too soon on JP, and ruined the development of EJ, etc...

18 minutes ago, K-GunJimKelly12 said:

Do people realize that Matt Barkley has had half the starts Josh Allen has had in the league?  He looked pretty good in his last one.  If he has to go this week, I think he will do well.

 

Everybody realizes this.  And most realize why that is the case.

[GG]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

You're right. 5.  Less games than Allen because he is the guy each team that hired him hoed would never have to play.

 

He didn't play for Cincy.  Duke is on the PS.  So we are now making conclusions based on how a backup QB looked in preseason with PS guys.

 

Barkley was once touted as a Top 10 pick, and got knocked down for his arm strength.  He was then tossed into bad situations.  But there's nothing in his career that suggests that he can't be a quality backup and put up points when needed.    Why is his his 4th round draft status used as a knock, when there are other guys drafted 4th and below who are doing well enough?

 

If we get a Derek Anderson in his prime, I'm perfectly fine with that as a back up.

[MAJBobby]

4 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

 

How many did Allen cost us with his boneheaded plays?  In fact, Barkley could have led a drive for 3 points, but we needed a TD because Allen knocked us out of FG range two times.  Oh, we also lost by 6.  

 

Clearly Allen will be the better QB, but some fans on here think any critique of Allen is unwarranted, and that Barkely is terrible.  Both of which are untrue.  

did he?  I remember a Kicker missing a FG he should have made. Make that and you don’t have to go for 7 later you kick from the 3 and it is a Tie Ballgame. Even AFTER all the bone head plays. 
 

just stating facts though

[dave mcbride]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

Your eyes must be better than mine to see all that in one Q of play this year.

 

But is also "the eyes" that supposedly saw that the Bills gave up too soon on JP, and ruined the development of EJ, etc...

Actually, I watched a bit of him in Chicago and Philly, and a lot of him at USC. He does some things well, and that's one of them. He has  clear physical limitations, though, which is why he dropped in the draft and why he's going to probably spend 12-15 years in the NFL as a backup. 

 

Not sure why you're so argumentative about this. His game is what it is, and it's pretty well known at this point. 

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

did he?  I remember a Kicker missing a FG he should have made. Make that and you don’t have to go for 7 later you kick from the 3 and it is a Tie Ballgame. Even AFTER all the bone head plays. 
 

just stating facts though

A 49 yard kick is never a gimme. It's 50-50 in the NFL. 

[reddogblitz]

10 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

You're right. 5.  Less games than Allen because he is the guy each team that hired him hoed would never have to play.

 

He didn't play for Cincy.  Duke is on the PS.  So we are now making conclusions based on how a backup QB looked in preseason with PS guys.

 

His picture on nfl.com shows him in a Cincinnati jersey.  Maybe I was thinking of when he played for Bears and threw 8 TDs and 14 Ints in 6 starts.

 

Yeah I know Sir Duke is on PS for now, but a dime is a dime and some of them have come against real Bills DBs.  Threw a couple yesterday.

 

And, I'm not even saying he should start, just arguing against the idea that he can't get any better and sucks.

Edited September 30, 2019 by reddogblitz

[MAJBobby]

4 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Actually, I watched a bit of him in Chicago and Philly, and a lot of him at USC. He does some things well, and that's one of them. He has  clear physical limitations, though, which is why he dropped in the draft and why he's going to probably spend 12-15 years in the NFL as a backup. 

 

Not sure why you're so argumentative about this. His game is what it is, and it's pretty well known at this point. 

A 49 yard kick is never a gimme. It's 50-50 in the NFL. 

does he get paid to make that kick?  Yes he does. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, GG said:

 

Barkley was once touted as a Top 10 pick, and got knocked down for his arm strength.  He was then tossed into bad situations.  But there's nothing in his career that suggests that he can't be a quality backup and put up points when needed.    Why is his his 4th round draft status used as a knock, when there are other guys drafted 4th and below who are doing well enough?

 

If we get a Derek Anderson in his prime, I'm perfectly fine with that as a back up.

 

The Bears needed lots of points when Barkley had a 6 game stretch as a starter.  He tossed 8 TDs over that period.  And 14 INTs.  Fumbled 4 times.  He once beat the Jets.  Half of his TD passes as a Bill went to Dion Dawkins (1).

 

He doesn't put up points.  He's demonstrably worse at protecting the ball than Allen.

[dave mcbride]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

does he get paid to make that kick?  Yes he does. 

No, not really. He gets paid to make 85 percent of his kicks, and there's an expectation that he's going to miss somewhere between 10 and 20 percent, particularly in Buffalo. Stick with your cliches, however. 

[MAJBobby]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

No, not really. He gets paid to make 85 percent of his kicks, and there's an expectation that he's going to miss somewhere between 10 and 20 percent, particularly in Buffalo. Stick with your cliches, however. 

 

Cool then he should have mad that kick because right now he is sitting at 66.7%  He makes that kick and he is 83.33%

 

Edited September 30, 2019 by MAJBobby

[dave mcbride]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

 

Cool then he should have mad that kick because right now he is sitting at 66.7%  He makes that kick and he is 83.33%

 

you do realize he missed a 58 yarder in game 3, right? Also, if you miss your first kick in the first game of the season, you're at 0 percent, right? The presumption is that he'll regress to his mean over a 16-game season. 

[MAJBobby]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

you do realize he missed a 58 yarder in game 3, right? Also, if you miss your first kick in the first game of the season, you're at 0 percent, right? The presumption is that he'll regress to his mean over a 16-game season. 

Why not he has regressed since becoming a Bill

[dave mcbride]

7 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Why not he has regressed since becoming a Bill

There is context to consider. He was clearly hurt after the dirty hit by Anderson in the second Jets game, and was never the same for the rest of the season.  He was 67 percent after that kick and his kickoffs weren't reaching the end zone. He's a good kicker and he'll be fine this season, I think.  He was 87 percent in his first season. 

Edited September 30, 2019 by dave mcbride

[MAJBobby]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

There is context to consider. He was clearly hurt after the dirty hit by Anderson in the second Jets game, and was never the same for the rest of the season.  He was 67 percent after that kick and his kickoffs weren't reaching the end zone. He's a good kicker and he'll be fine this season, I think.  He was 87 percent in his first season. 

 

So he Regressed (with context) thanks

 

Hmmm could Josh Allen have a bad game with context too or is that only reserved for those players we dont have an agenda with?

Edited September 30, 2019 by MAJBobby

[dave mcbride]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

 

So he Regressed thanks.

 

Hmmm could Josh Allen have a bad game with context too or is that only reserved for those players we dont have an agenda with?

??? I like Allen. He has issues that he has to clean up, however, and he had a very bad game yesterday. It happens. What the heck is your problem?

[GG]

27 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

The Bears needed lots of points when Barkley had a 6 game stretch as a starter.  He tossed 8 TDs over that period.  And 14 INTs.  Fumbled 4 times.  He once beat the Jets.  Half of his TD passes as a Bill went to Dion Dawkins (1).

 

He doesn't put up points.  He's demonstrably worse at protecting the ball than Allen.

 

You're comparing a Bears stint on a tanking team and you're blaming him for the Bears defense allowing points?

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

The best player on our offense is Singletary. Him being out yesterday made a huge difference. If we had him in the red zone yesterday, we probably score at least 1 more touchdown. He can make people miss in ways that you don’t see often. If he’s there in Tennessee, I think our offense will play well. Barkley is a guy that will get the ball on time to the playmakers. Singletary makes a massive difference in our offense Eventhough his touches have been limited. If he’s back, we are guna score points with Barkley. If he’s out, it’s guna be a long day for either QB.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Brianmoorman4jesus

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

We'll find out this week probably.

 

Hope Barkley doesn't crap the bed.

 

[Kelly the Dog]

I just watched the game again and Barkley wasn’t any better than Allen. In a full quarter he got zero points. One drive was three and out with three straight bad passes to slightly open WR. He missed other open guys. He fumbled. He threw the INT. It’s possible the Brown pass to Yeldon is easier if the short toss back to Brown was accurate but he made Brown jump for it. His one good play was a spectacular catch by Brown.