NFL's newest franchise QB: Daniel Jones

[Mark80]

30 minutes ago, ROCBillsBeliever said:

 

To be fair, even the vaunted Alabama program has underperformed, in terms of quality NFL starting QB production. AJ McCarron, anyone?

 

Yeah, until Tua comes out next year.

[Mark80]

1 hour ago, Say When... said:

 

ok, so the history and size of the school doesn't matter, and we discount the schools contribution to NFL talent over the last 40+ years, then, you're right, it's tired.

 

Let me ask you this.  How many schools in the last 40 years have a great track record of NFL QB success?  How many have more than 1 QB with NFL success?

 

I can count Standford (Elway, Luck), Cal (Rodgers, Goff), Oklahoma (Jury still out obviously, but maybe Baker and Murray)....and that's all I've got off the top of my head.  Every other "franchise" QB is the only one from that school in the last 40 years.  So there is either 3 schools that develop QBs or your standard for the school is 1 guy.  1.  No school has that success rate until they do.

Edited September 24, 2019 by Mark80

[PromoTheRobot]

14 minutes ago, njbuff said:

 

He had a 5 TD game against Miami.

 

 

Well except for that game, the 5 come-from-behind wins, his 64% completion percentage and being 5-1 in his last 6 starts, Josh Allen hasn't done anything. 

Edited September 24, 2019 by PromoTheRobot

[Say When...]

4 minutes ago, Mark80 said:

 

Let me ask you this.  How many schools in the last 40 years have a great track record of NFL QB success?  How many have more than 1 QB with NFL success?

 

I can count Standford (Elway, Luck), Cal (Rodgers, Goff), Oklahoma (Jury still out obviously, but maybe Baker and Murray)....and that's all I've got off the top of my head.  Every other "franchise" QB is the only one from that school in the last 40 years.  So there is either 3 schools that develop QBs or your standard for the school is 1 guy.  1.  No school has that success rate until they do.

 

ok, ok, you're a dog without a bone here; i made a statement and you thought it was dumb.  My thought process is; isn't it weird a school like FSU (a bonafide NFL talent school) has yet to produce a NFL successful QB and you responded with "what about the 1000's of other schools?"; i'll let it drop.

 

if i offended you or your alma mater, it was unintended

[Albany,n.y.]

36 minutes ago, BurpleBull said:

 

The jury should still be out on Josh Allen; I feel good about the direction Josh Allen is heading, but he does still play erratically at times (the toss up interceptons) and I would also like to see him go through his progressions more to find to the open man instead of locking in on Cole Beasley so much.

 

Daniel Jones is hella good and he's shown better at the point in his young career than Allen did his; he looked good in preseason and he led a comeback in place of a future Hall of Famer. It's early but you can see that Jones has the potential to be really good, the early praise is understandable. 

 

FTR I'm completely cool with Josh Allen's backyard-style improvisation as long as turnovers don't come along with it too often. 

EVERY QB in the NFL plays erratically at times & if you watch every down a team plays, like many of us do with the Bills, you can always say that about your team's QB.  Until a QB comes along with a 100% completion % and 0 INTS fans who watch every down will say the guy makes stupid decisions sometimes.  It's the QB's & coaches'  jobs to cut the bad throws down to an acceptable level, meaning they cost as few games as possible.  Still they'll always be there.  Even Brady has throws he wants back.  

 

One of the stats that are talked about with great QBs is their 4th quarter comebacks.  Many of those comebacks are the result of something bad they did earlier in the game.  A perfect QB would never have to have a 4th quarter comeback because he'd win every game wire-to-wire.  

[blacklabel]

I can understand how the lack of national attention/recognition can kinda get on our nerves as fans. It even wears on the players some. After the game, Tre' was asking Matt Fairburn (I think) to write about things that'll hopefully get some attention. I even argued with a dude on The Athletic's comment section that it's alright for a player to want a little recognition, especially after a solid game. His argument was that the Bills haven't done anything worthy of recognition and said that all the players should be like the 90s Bills and just prove it on the field. Never mind the fact that those 90s teams were loaded with guys who had monster egos. Bruce Smith talked himself up in a 1991 SI interview and Darryl Talley campaigned for himself to get in the Pro Bowl, so... anyway...

 

The thing I try to keep in mind when hearing/reading the schlock that these "experts" come up with is this: these guys are paid to make inflammatory comments in order to generate attention and discussion from the viewer base. Some of these nimrods come up with stuff that's so ridiculous that I feel like they can't even believe it themselves, but during a production meeting someone said to say it because ratings or whatever and here we are. Schopp is a perfect example of this. I've heard that the guy himself is a genuinely good dude and that he's almost "playing a character" on WGR. He blurts out all sorts of idiocy in order to get people to call in and disagree with him, which is precisely what they want. It's just how sports media works these days. They pay attention to the big markets and usually shower them in positive praise. With the smaller markets, they'll acknowledge when a team has had some success, but it usually comes with the caveat of, "Yeah, they beat so and so, BUT, that team had some injuries and the coach had the sniffles so they obviously weren't at their best, so how much can we really trust that Small Market Team A is actually good?" It gets pretty old after a while, but that's the shtick, at least IMO.

 

I prefer the shows that just have honest discussion without too much opinion thrown in. I know it's a pure homer show but that's why I enjoyed One Bills Live a few years ago when I was working 4p-12a shifts and could catch the show before heading into work. It's just general Bills talk with a more positive slant and hey, that's alright.

[ddaryl]

It was his 1st start after being drafted quite high for the consensus. He is going to get that kind of attention for awhile. Add in the big market and the news is amplified.

 

nothing to see here, just another internet pundit trying to make a buck, move along. Rational minds will need a dozen games to feel out Mr. jones. No different than Mr. Allen...  

[US Egg]

1 hour ago, ROCBillsBeliever said:

To be fair, even the vaunted Alabama program has underperformed, in terms of quality NFL starting QB production. AJ McCarron, anyone?

Alabama QB's Bart Starr: 97W-57L-6T, 2 SB wins. Ken Stabler: 96W- 49L-1T, 1 SB win, weren't NFL quality starting QB's ?

 

Even Joe Namath, first to pass for 4000 yds. on shot knees, won a Super Bowl and was only a game under .500 in wins on a mostly bad Jet teams     

 

Maybe only to us who had to walk to school up hill both ways could appreciate how good they were when they played .   

Edited September 24, 2019 by I am the egg man

[Rob's House]

Remember when Gettleman was branded the village idiot by the football media for drafting this guy?

[Mark80]

20 minutes ago, Say When... said:

 

ok, ok, you're a dog without a bone here; i made a statement and you thought it was dumb.  My thought process is; isn't it weird a school like FSU (a bonafide NFL talent school) has yet to produce a NFL successful QB and you responded with "what about the 1000's of other schools?"; i'll let it drop.

 

if i offended you or your alma mater, it was unintended

 

Funny.  Someone calls you out for a logic fallacy which is perpetuated over and over and over on this board and instead of defending your position with examples, you say I'm a dog without a bone or that I'm somehow offended.  Nope, I just like facts and reason.

 

And my alma mater has exactly 1 player in the NFL now.  Definitely has nothing to do with it.

 

Peace.

[SoTier]

2 hours ago, MR8 said:

 

It's true of every College that they have not produced a good NFL QB, until they do!  Then all of a sudden are they a "QB factory"?  Of course not! 

 

It's about the player and what they do when they get to the NFL, not the college. 

 

Sometimes, though, the prestige of a program can propel draft prospects to higher positions in the draft than they perhaps merit by their actual play on the field.  USC QBs, Penn State LBs, and Iowa OLers seem to be examples of this.

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, Capco said:

If we end up 4-0, the narrative on Allen might change overnight.  

It should not need to come to that.....but I degress

 

Meanwhile.....WAY TO EARLY TO BE CROWNING GIANTS QB ASS

[MR8]

8 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Sometimes, though, the prestige of a program can propel draft prospects to higher positions in the draft than they perhaps merit by their actual play on the field.  USC QBs, Penn State LBs, and Iowa OLers seem to be examples of this.

 

Doesn't change that that player then needs to succeed... USC for instance has had many 1st round QBs but I would argue only Carson Palmer has been a good NFL QB.. some journeymen who made careers but Palmer is the cream of that crop, our own Matt Barkley included.

 

It's the QB that matters, the school may lend something to draft position, but it doesn't make the guy a better QB.  Sure he may have played a higher level of competition, but in college they're all system QBs for the most part...  only a few really transcend the sport to be more, and those guys always go 1 overall like Luck or Manning before him.

[Chicken Boo]

3 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I bet not. The narrative will be how the Pats let one slip.

 

Nah.  Bills win on Sunday, the league will take notice.  Especially if Allen plays well.

[ROCBillsBeliever]

1 hour ago, Mark80 said:

 

Yeah, until Tua comes out next year.

 

Thats true-a ?

1 hour ago, I am the egg man said:

Alabama QB's Bart Starr: 97W-57L-6T, 2 SB wins. Ken Stabler: 96W- 49L-1T, 1 SB win, weren't NFL quality starting QB's ?

 

Even Joe Namath, first to pass for 4000 yds. on shot knees, won a Super Bowl and was only a game under .500 in wins on a mostly bad Jet teams     

 

Maybe only to us who had to walk to school up hill both ways could appreciate how good they were when they played .   

 

Ah, that's before my time. I guess I'm looking at it in terms of their recent dominance (past 10 - 15 years) NOT translating into star NFL QB's. They have been absolutely crushing teams in college, and it just seems like you would expect a good QB to come from that, somewhere.

 

Mine was more of an observation based on recent teams. Should have made that caveat clear... my bad. 

[RobbRiddick]

3 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

You are instantly the best QB since Sims.

Hey, way to diss Hostetler! Let's see Jones pull off a porn star tache like big Jeff

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, njbuff said:

 

He had a 5 TD game against Miami.

 

What the hell are you talking about?

 

I wouldn't listen to Smith and/or Kiper, even if my life depended on it.

Allen hasn't had that game yet. The game we will all remember.

[njbuff]

40 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Allen hasn't had that game yet. The game we will all remember.

 

If the Bills win the SB and Allen doesn't have this "supposed" game to remember yet.............

 

Will you give a flying you know what?

[Doc Brown]

Besides ball security, this kid has looked amazing through the preseason and against the Bucs.  I think he's going to come down to earth a bit but I see him as a likely franchise QB at this point.

[Captain Hindsight]

4 hours ago, njbuff said:

Why anyone would bother to listen to an idiot like Smith is beyond me. His opinion means less than nothing.

 

And we all know that Kiper has no idea what the heck he is talking about either.

 

 

Kiper loves Josh Allen

[Billsfan1972]

But he threw for 300+ yards in his first game.  

 

Buffalo has gone 36 games (and it took OT), since they did that!!!!!??

[njbuff]

1 minute ago, Billsfan1972 said:

But he threw for 300+ yards in his first game.  

 

Buffalo has gone 36 games (and it took OT), since they did that!!!!!??

 

If Tampa Bay had a kicker, it would have been a 300 yard game in a loss. So who gives a shyt about a 300 yard passing game.

[Bubba Gump]

4 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

He had very little time, that pocket was collapsing fast.  Also most passes are under 20 yards, did you mean <10?  It was an impressive debut considering.  not saying he is a FQB but he did amazing with what he was dealt with.   

 

Did you see what Josh Allen had to deal with last season? Worst OL in the league, no true #1 RB as Shady was either hurt or way underperforming and no true #1 WR. Not to mention the Bills led the league in drops. So Allen had it way worse than Jones had in 1 freaking start. Get real dude.

[klos63]

5 hours ago, eball said:

NYC (area) teams are always going to get the front page, and it's not as if Jones wasn't impressive.  The only issue I have is in making snap judgments before the guy even has a true body of work out there to assess.  History is replete with QBs who had impressive starts and then faded into mediocrity (or worse).

 

As for how the national media treat Josh Allen?  Not my concern -- I am only interested in what my eyes see regarding his development and how the team performs.  If he plays well and continues to grow he'll be a Buffalo Bill for life and that's fine with me.

 

I agree with you, but ESPN First Take with Stephen Smith isn't the 'front page' by any stretch. They're hacks like pretty much everyone else. But it was quite a debut for Jones.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, njbuff said:

 

If the Bills win the SB and Allen doesn't have this "supposed" game to remember yet.............

 

Will you give a flying you know what?

You won't remember the Bills winning the Super Bowl?

[Phil The Thrill]

5 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Just watching ESPN First Take where Stephen A Smith and Mel Kiper were taking turns giving Jones a tongue bath.

 

I guess that's what happens when you play for a New York team. Win one game (barely) and you are instantly the best QB since Sims.

 

Meanwhile the jury is still out on Josh Allen.

true...it’s just one game but I do think that Jones was pretty impressive 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

35 minutes ago, njbuff said:

 

If Tampa Bay had a kicker, it would have been a 300 yard game in a loss. So who gives a shyt about a 300 yard passing game.

We don't because we can't.

[Steve O]

5 hours ago, Mark80 said:

 

Such a tired point to make.  Question.  Has Wyoming?  Has Duke?  Had Clemson before Watson?  Don't get me wrong, Jameis is a terrible face of the franchise, but it has nothing to do with where he went to school.

To be fair, Duke has been a quarterback factory for decades. Here is a partial list of the Hall of Fame QB's they have turned out:

Sonny Jurgensen

Actually, that's the entire list. Never mind.

[416BillsFan]

Replacing a 15-year started who won 2 Super Bowls with a game like that will get you noticed.

[Nick the Greek]

5 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Just watching ESPN First Take where Stephen A Smith and Mel Kiper were taking turns giving Jones a tongue bath.

 

I guess that's what happens when you play for a New York team. Win one game (barely) and you are instantly the best QB since Sims.

 

Meanwhile the jury is still out on Josh Allen.

What’s sad is the Giants had to relay on the Bucs missing a chip shot field goal at the end of the game to win.. 

 

But hey, a wins a win I guess. 

9 minutes ago, Steve O said:

To be fair, Duke has been a quarterback factory for decades. Here is a partial list of the Hall of Fame QB's they have turned out:

Sonny Jurgensen

Actually, that's the entire list. Never mind.

Former Bills starting superstar QB Thad Lewis went to Duke.

 

cant forget about him! 

[Billsfan1972]

44 minutes ago, njbuff said:

 

If Tampa Bay had a kicker, it would have been a 300 yard game in a loss. So who gives a shyt about a 300 yard passing game.

Again you just don't get it.  If he didn't throw for 300 they don't have a chance.....

 

Yes the Bills are 3-0, however over the 36 games they are 18-18......  Don't you think a 300 yard game may have won some for them (or a few games may have been an easier win)?

[teef]

19 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Again you just don't get it.  If he didn't throw for 300 they don't have a chance.....

 

Yes the Bills are 3-0, however over the 36 games they are 18-18......  Don't you think a 300 yard game may have won some for them (or a few games may have been an easier win)?

this is just a thing with you.

[njbuff]

3 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Again you just don't get it.  If he didn't throw for 300 they don't have a chance.....

 

Yes the Bills are 3-0, however over the 36 games they are 18-18......  Don't you think a 300 yard game may have won some for them (or a few games may have been an easier win)?

 

What don't I get?

 

That you HAVE to throw for that almighty 300 yards to win a game?

 

You are obsessed with 300 yard games like Demonrats are obsessed with impeachment.

 

Allen can win the Bills the SB this year while NEVER throwing for 300 yards and it wouldn't matter to you.

 

Completely nuts.

[stosh64]

Mayfield was the second coming of Marino last season too.

 

These hot takes are meaningless.

 

Time will tell.  I wish the kid well.

[Punching Bag]

8 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

EVERY QB in the NFL plays erratically at times & if you watch every down a team plays, like many of us do with the Bills, you can always say that about your team's QB.  Until a QB comes along with a 100% completion % and 0 INTS fans who watch every down will say the guy makes stupid decisions sometimes.  It's the QB's & coaches'  jobs to cut the bad throws down to an acceptable level, meaning they cost as few games as possible.  Still they'll always be there.  Even Brady has throws he wants back.  

 

One of the stats that are talked about with great QBs is their 4th quarter comebacks.  Many of those comebacks are the result of something bad they did earlier in the game.  A perfect QB would never have to have a 4th quarter comeback because he'd win every game wire-to-wire.  

 

If Allen had that kind of game the negative nancies would say he could have gotten more yardage by throwing to someone else and he was too conservative.

[auburnbillsbacker]

Jones looked good during training camp.  He played well during the preseason.  He played well during his first start.  I think it is more likely than not that Jones develops into a good QB.  

Why do we care though?

[Punching Bag]

5 hours ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Kiper loves Josh Allen

 

I heard that Josh loves Kiper too especially fried with bacon.

[PromoTheRobot]

12 minutes ago, auburnbillsbacker said:

Jones looked good during training camp.  He played well during the preseason.  He played well during his first start.  I think it is more likely than not that Jones develops into a good QB.  

Why do we care though?

 

Not so much we care about Jones, just the rush to crown him after one game. Remember how preseason isn't supposed to mean anything?

[formerlyofCtown]

11 hours ago, njbuff said:

Why anyone would bother to listen to an idiot like Smith is beyond me. His opinion means less than nothing.

 

And we all know that Kiper has no idea what the heck he is talking about either.

 

 

Kiper is always right when he says good thongs about the Bills.?

 

Kiper has been high on JA and the Bills all offseason if I recall correctly.

[Bferra13]

https://sports.yahoo.com/a-month-after-baker-mayfield-mocked-daniel-jones-whos-laughing-now-004423422.html

 

A little early for all this Daniel Jones stuff, but maybe next time old Baker will keep his two cents to himself.

Edited September 25, 2019 by Bferra13