Bills least valuable NFL franchise per Forbes

[frostbitmic]

All they need to do is rape the tax payers of NYS for a shiny new 2Billion dollar stadium... Then we'll be relevant again.

 

Can we say FU Forbes now or later ?

 

We could build a kick*** stadium under Niagara Falls ... would be the coolest stadium ever.

[reddogblitz]

4 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said:

Just look at the winning teams Patriots were never valued that high until they started winning. Just simple facts.

 

Again, new fancy stadium.  Exactly coincided with the winning.  

 

Quote

The New England Patriots played their home games at Foxboro Stadium through 2001, then moved to Gillette Stadium at the start of the 2002 season.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_England_Patriots

 

The Chiefs win a lot, why aren't they in the top 10 and the Jets are?  Oh yeah, the Chiefs stadium is as old as ours.  Saints are at 25 and they've won a ton over the last 15 years.  Their stadium is older than ours too.

 

When it comes to team value, the stadium plays in heavy.  Wins/losses doesn't hurt, but far from the deciding factor.

[Boca BIlls]

3 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Again, new fancy stadium.  Exactly coincided with the winning.  

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_England_Patriots

 

The Chiefs win a lot, why aren't they in the top 10 and the Jets are?  Oh yeah, the Chiefs stadium is as old as ours.  Saints are at 25 and they've won a ton over the last 15 years.  Their stadium is older than ours too.

 

When it comes to team value, the stadium plays in heavy.  Wins/losses doesn't hurt, but far from the deciding factor.

Cheifs are higher up[ there b/c they win. If they lost as much as the Bills they would be even lower. WINNING plays a huge part in small market teams. You are basically proving my point by trying to not prove it, thanks.

Edited September 18, 2019 by Boca BIlls

[reddogblitz]

2 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said:

Cheifs are higher up[ there b/c they win. If they lost as much as the Bills they would be even lower. WINNING plays a huge part in small market teams. You are basically proving my point by trying to not prove it, thanks.

 

Did you read the article?  Chiefs are #24.  Saints are #25.  What do they have in coming besides winning a lot?

 

Jets are #8.  Washington is #7.  What do they have in common besides losing a lot?

[TroutDog]

Sorry all, my intent was simply to share the figures, not get into all this mess. 

 

For me, bottom line is this: it was a great investment for the Pegula’s and I am SOOOO happy they are our owners! May their returns be great. ? 

[RochesterRob]

11 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Again, new fancy stadium.  Exactly coincided with the winning.  

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_England_Patriots

 

The Chiefs win a lot, why aren't they in the top 10 and the Jets are?  Oh yeah, the Chiefs stadium is as old as ours.  Saints are at 25 and they've won a ton over the last 15 years.  Their stadium is older than ours too.

 

When it comes to team value, the stadium plays in heavy.  Wins/losses doesn't hurt, but far from the deciding factor.

   I would argue that population reached by television signal reached is most important and where the Bills perhaps get short changed especially when considering Southern Ontario.  As to the Pats the Boston Metro is just under 5 million people and then you have to consider other states and cities in New England. New England collectively is a large market and has quite a bit of wealth.  Contrast that with Pittsburgh or Indianapolis which have modern stadiums but have far less population to be reached and not overly rich into the country side.  JMO.

[Punching Bag]

6 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Did you read the article?  Chiefs are #24.  Saints are #25.  What do they have in coming besides winning a lot?

 

Jets are #8.  Washington is #7.  What do they have in common besides losing a lot?

 

Jest, Cowpokes and Washington have moronic owners - does this mean value is inversely connected to owner common sense?

[reddogblitz]

Just now, Limeaid said:

 

Jest, Cowpokes and Washington have moronic owners - does this mean value is inversely connected to owner common sense?

 

Not necessarily.

 

Stadiums have value.  Billions of dollars of value.  And while those guys are moronic, they are great business men which is how they got enough scratch together to buy a team (and coax the local yokels into building them a new stadium).

 

Do you think a stadium's value has anything to do with the team's value?

[RochesterRob]

4 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Not necessarily.

 

Stadiums have value.  Billions of dollars of value.  And while those guys are moronic, they are great business men which is how they got enough scratch together to buy a team (and coax the local yokels into building them a new stadium).

 

Do you think a stadium's value has anything to do with the team's value?

  Definitely should be a factor and more so if privately owned

[Augie]

4 hours ago, TroutDog said:

Yup. In the recent Athletic article, he told the guy who managed the purchase to offer what would definitively be the highest bid. They did it intentionally and their investment is now up $.5b dollars. 

 

Not bad. 

 

I’m ashamed to admit that I have made somewhat less over that same period of time. Approximately $.5b dollars less. 

[T&C]

2 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

 

At best your comparison is apples and oranges.  Dallas has huge corporate money that can help fill that stadium.  Dallas has an unemotional, oversized cavern like structure to play football in.  Personally, I hate it.

 

If you want tot see a real stadium full of real fans go out to Orchard Park.

 

There will need to be something done with the stadium situation in Buffalo.  I pray that it is a major overhaul of what they have and not a new downtown venue. 

In Dallas, after a great play is made, there is like a 2- 3 second difference to the cheering for the most part. That is the delay between the actual play and what happened on the jumbotron. A lot of fans just watch the game on that lol.

[TheFunPolice]

how long until that idiot Florio runs with this article to back up his dream of the Bills moving to Toronto?

 

 

[RochesterRob]

2 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

how long until that idiot Florio runs with this article to back up his dream of the Bills moving to Toronto?

 

 

  That and drive through Westfield, Wellsville, Warsaw, and Webster screaming out the window of his SUV that the locals are too poor to have a team.

[billsfan_34]

5 hours ago, teef said:

I’m pretty sure the 1.4 b he used to purchase the team was considered an over buy at the time.  That’s one fancy toy. 

For sure! The operating costs of an NFL franchise are enormous. Being up 500 mil after a few short years isn’t too shabby thou. Im surprised we are worth less than JAX, KC, and a few others.

[Doc]

1 hour ago, row_33 said:

they aren't "wrong" because their values don't matter in reality

 

It's almost impossible to gather the information of a private enterprise, let alone all 32 teams to come up with a useful value, zero credibility in this report

 

Forbes does this all the time, they guess at values of teams, they guess at the richest people in the world, it's a fun thing to publish, but if you won't stand by the opinion in reality, it's worthless. 

 

okay Doc, if you are working professionally in this field you can have an opinion besides reading the headline and going "WOW WHAT A GENIUS!!"

 

What an odd statement.  Is it something personal against Pegula, or just Forbes, that set you off?

 

And when Pegula bought it, primarily for the purpose of keeping the team in Buffalo for at least Kim's lifetime, he obviously knew the value of the franchise would rise as most NFL franchises do over time.  Consider it like signing a player at a huge contract now and it being a bargain in a couple years. 

 

But what do you think is the true valuation of the Bills?  Because I have no qualms saying that if the Pegulas were to put the team up for sale, they'd get at least $1.9B. 

[msw2112]

5 hours ago, RochesterRob said:

   The Packers true market is deceptive.  The very SE portion of Wisconsin is Chicago oriented and the Packers have a following in the state of Minnesota as they predate the Vikings by decades.  But yes Madison, Milwaukee, etc. are Packer territory.

 

I (respectfully) disagree with this.  I spend a fair amount of time in SE Wisconsin.  I'm actually going to be in Milwaukee tomorrow.  I also lived in Chicago for many years.  Kenosha (the SE border of WI and IL) and Racine (the next city to the north) are all very much Packer territory.  The folks in those areas have a term called "FIBS"  - "Fuc*&ing Illinois Bast*#ds."  They strongly dislike Chicago and Illinois.  They are all about Wisconsin and love the Packers.  

 

I do agree that there are some Packer fans in Minnesota as Wisconsin and Minnesota share a border and the Packers have a longer history.

[billsfan89]

Not shocking they would be bottom 5, keep in mind not only market but stadium is also factored into the value of a franchise. 

[SF Bills Fan]

I always take these lists with a grain of salt. How is Jacksonville not in bottom 5? It’s not a big market and fan support is not exactly lights out. When Bills do something with the stadium and win consistently, they’ll move up. 

[njbuff]

It has everything to do with having a new stadium.

 

Put a shiny new stadium in Buffalo itself, all of a sudden the franchise’s value skyrockets.

[bills11]

7 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

 

At best your comparison is apples and oranges.  Dallas has huge corporate money that can help fill that stadium.  Dallas has an unemotional, oversized cavern like structure to play football in.  Personally, I hate it.

 

If you want tot see a real stadium full of real fans go out to Orchard Park.

 

There will need to be something done with the stadium situation in Buffalo.  I pray that it is a major overhaul of what they have and not a new downtown venue. 

To be fair though their stadium fits within the culture of the state...they have highschools stadiums in Texas worth millions with state of the art facilities ..Texas is all about grandeur when it comes to sports 

[GunnerBill]

11 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

The Bills will always be the least valuable franchise. But the Pegulas did everyone a favor by raising the value of every NFL team with their bid.

 

Team values are mostly illusion anyway.

 

Yep. The "value" of a modern NFL team is basically just the price to enter a rich man's dividend fund where you are all but guaranteed profit. 

 

It is why the modern breed of NFL owners shouldn't be getting inducted into the HoF in my mind. I can see HoF status for the pioneers of pro football both in the NFL and AFL. Those were guys taking risks when the stakes were high and there was a chance you could lose. The Pegulas couldn't lose buying the Bills. Nor could the fella who bought the Panthers last year. The entry criteria no longer includes risk appetite. Just ever deeper pockets. 

 

[formerlyofCtown]

If Im not mistaken Forbes didnt have them isted at the 1.4 they sold for.

[Dr.Sack]

He’s definitely gained in value what he’s spent on reinvesting in the team and then some.

[iinii]

14 hours ago, Distorted One said:

Yeah $1.9 billion ain't peanuts and I'm pleasantly surprised by that number.  They bought for what $1.4 billion.  That's quite a return so far.  If memory serves me, the bidding for the team was probably in the $900 mil to $1.1 billion range and they came in with that fat $1.4 billion to make everyone else give up and go home.  So they essentially paid a couple hundred million $ just to get it over with and guarantee they'd win?  That's some real love for this team and Buffalo as a whole community.

Or greed.....

[Búfalo Blanco]

Undervalued, under the radar underdogs... mostly ignored by the corporate machine.

 

That’ll make it all the sweeter when this “poverty stricken” small market bunch of orphans knocks off the silver star-studded, silver spoon up their pristine derrière choir Boys or Golden Fleece Rams. 

 

Shock the world, street urchins... and pick Jerruh’s pockets while you’re at it. 

[JoPar_v2]

6 minutes ago, Búfalo Blanco said:

Undervalued, under the radar underdogs... mostly ignored by the corporate machine.

 

That’ll make it all the sweeter when this “poverty stricken” small market bunch of orphans knocks off the silver star-studded, silver spoon up their pristine derrière choir Boys or Golden Fleece Rams. 

 

Shock the world, street urchins... and pick Jerruh’s pockets while you’re at it. 

 

This is excellent. And, by the way, there is next to nothing concrete in any of these forbes “valuations.”

 

pretty sure Jeffery Epstein was listed as a forbes “billionaire” until he got caught up in certain things and the feds counted up his money and he had about half that.

[dollars 2 donuts]

For years we’ve seen Terry and Kim’s net worth hovering around 3.8 billion mark.

 

I’m assuming and hoping this gets them well over 4 billion.

 

Yes...I want my local sports owners richer than ever.  It helps our franchises, like with the new training center for the Bills, which in turn makes the team more attractive to free agents...unless your Vontae Davis’ wife.

Edited September 19, 2019 by dollars 2 donuts

[Billzgobowlin]

With the Redskins listed so high it obviously has nothing to do with winning or quality of stadium.

[PromoTheRobot]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yep. The "value" of a modern NFL team is basically just the price to enter a rich man's dividend fund where you are all but guaranteed profit. 

 

It is why the modern breed of NFL owners shouldn't be getting inducted into the HoF in my mind. I can see HoF status for the pioneers of pro football both in the NFL and AFL. Those were guys taking risks when the stakes were high and there was a chance you could lose. The Pegulas couldn't lose buying the Bills. Nor could the fella who bought the Panthers last year. The entry criteria no longer includes risk appetite. Just ever deeper pockets. 

 

 

I hear ya, but really I think we are at the crest of football team values. I can see team values falling in the not too distant future when the pool of talent starts to dwindle. American kds are not playing the sport as much any more from fears of head trauma. Sometimes I think that's the real push behind the NFL's international outreach.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I hear ya, but really I think we are at the crest of football team values. I can see team values falling in the not too distant future when the pool of talent starts to dwindle. American kds are not playing the sport as much any more from fears of head trauma. Sometimes I think that's the real push behind the NFL's international outreach.

 

Their push to be international is very much, in part, about expanding the talent base. You could be right about values peaking. We will have to see. 

[SoCal Deek]

3 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

For years we’ve seen Terry and Kim’s net worth hovering around 3.8 billion mark.

 

I’m assuming and hoping this gets them well over 4 billion.

 

That means they earn about $200 million a year even investing conservatively! Twenty million a month. Or one million each week day. Or $120 thousand per hour! Not too shabby.

[Doc]

57 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I hear ya, but really I think we are at the crest of football team values. I can see team values falling in the not too distant future when the pool of talent starts to dwindle. American kds are not playing the sport as much any more from fears of head trauma. Sometimes I think that's the real push behind the NFL's international outreach.

 

The values will keep increasing as long as people keep watching on TV.  At some point that may decrease but when/if that happens remains to be seen.  

[MrSarcasm]

I'm shocked by this news. How does a booming Mega City such as Buffalo not beat out the likes of Los Angelos, Houston and Philadelphia?

 

?

[PromoTheRobot]

1 minute ago, MrSarcasm said:

I'm shocked by this news. How does a booming Mega City such as Buffalo not beat out the likes of Los Angelos, Houston and Philadelphia?

 

?

 

What about world class cities like Jacksonville and Green Bay?

[Canadian Bills Fan]

They may be the least valuable franchise but to me they are priceless

[MrSarcasm]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

What about world class cities like Jacksonville and Green Bay?

 

Good point it's not like any of these teams are historically good or popular and we all know Buffalos population handily beats out Jacksonvilles 900,000+ population.

 

?

[PromoTheRobot]

6 minutes ago, MrSarcasm said:

 

Good point it's not like any of these teams are historically good or popular and we all know Buffalos population handily beats out Jacksonvilles 900,000+ population.

 

?

 

Don't confuse city populations with metropolitan population. Jax is 1.53MM, Buffalo is 1.13MM. Bigger but not by that much.

 

Oh, and Green Bay/Appleton/Oshkosh? 235K.

Edited September 19, 2019 by PromoTheRobot

[RochesterRob]

19 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Don't confuse city populations with metropolitan population. Jax is 1.53MM, Buffalo is 1.13MM. Bigger but not by that much.

 

Oh, and Green Bay/Appleton/Oshkosh? 235K.

  Don't be fooled by Buffalo's 1.13M Metro.  The league would have never approved the Pegula's purchase for such a short market reach.  The Pegula's approval happened based on television signals reaching approximately 3M people west of I-81 in New York and some of PA's Northern Tier.  3 million people is not at the bottom of the barrel NFL wise lessening the pressure for a quick relocation to San Antonio, Portland, OR, etc..

[PromoTheRobot]

Just now, RochesterRob said:

  Don't be fooled by Buffalo's 1.13M Metro.  The league would have never approved the Pegula's purchase for such a short market reach.  The Pegula's approval happened based on television signals reaching approximately 3M people west of I-81 in New York and some of PA's Northern Tier.  3 million people is not at the bottom of the barrel NFL wise lessening the pressure for a quick relocation to San Antonio, Portland, OR, etc..

 

It's not complicated. There were $1.4B reasons why the Pegulas were approved.

[BuffaloBill]

13 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  Don't be fooled by Buffalo's 1.13M Metro.  The league would have never approved the Pegula's purchase for such a short market reach.  The Pegula's approval happened based on television signals reaching approximately 3M people west of I-81 in New York and some of PA's Northern Tier.  3 million people is not at the bottom of the barrel NFL wise lessening the pressure for a quick relocation to San Antonio, Portland, OR, etc..

 

You forgot to mention the southern Ontario draw.  Personally, i think if a new stadium is going to be built they should simply bulldoze most of Niagara Falls and put it up there.  Then you really do cement the team to the Ontario market.  The stadium, of course, is not going to be built in NF......