Receiver competition with two games left

[Tenhigh]

2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

At the time he signed with Buffalo there were reports that several teams wanted him. Why?  Because for the last couple of years he caughtt virtually every ball that came his way.  Like the touchdown the other night.  That's what he does.  

 

 

I don't remember reading that, but i will take your word for it. Do you remember which teams?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

If you consider that the offense has specific roles then you might see it this way 

 

speed guys:

brown backed up by Foster.  Roberts probably factors in here too.  Might make Foster expendable for this spot.  

 

slot guys

cole and ?

 

McKenzie and RayRay probably are the only guys here

 

possession wr with versatility:

zay and ?

 

not sure Duke is fast enough, Roberts and Foster not good enough route tree, not sure McKenzie or Ray work here. 

 

 

 

 

[DCOrange]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

In terms if backs and receivers to be honest my thinking hasn't really changed since the start of camp. 

 

Di Marco will make it, plus Shady, Gore and Singletary. 

 

Then the 6 receivers will be Brown, Beasley, Foster, Jones, McKenzie and Roberts. 

 

This is precisely where I'm at. And I think Ray-Ray is more likely to make it than Duke for that final spot (if they decide not to keep McKenzie) simply because we need someone that can at least try to fill Beasley's role whenever he's tired/banged up.

 

To me, Duke's only chances of making the roster are if we keep 7 WRs or if one of Zay/Foster is surprisingly cut.

[Pete]

Beasley 

Brown

Foster

Roberts

Williams

Mckenzie

 

thats who I have making WR

 

Kroft PUP-Croom will keep his spot warm

Sweeney

Knox

Smith 

 

Our TEs

 

both positions are light years ahead of last season 

[Shaw66]

20 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

If you consider that the offense has specific roles then you might see it this way 

 

speed guys:

brown backed up by Foster.  Roberts probably factors in here too.  Might make Foster expendable for this spot.  

 

slot guys

cole and ?

 

McKenzie and RayRay probably are the only guys here

 

possession wr with versatility:

zay and ?

 

not sure Duke is fast enough, Roberts and Foster not good enough route tree, not sure McKenzie or Ray work here. 

 

 

 

 

I will admit that I often think of it this way, too, but I'm not sure it's correct.  

 

Speed guys, definitely.  Brown, Foster.  Roberts.  McKenzie could be there, maybe McCloud. 

 

Beyond speed, I don't this think there are categories.  I think you take your best receivers and make them work.  Almost all of them can play the slot, if necessary and if they can run routes.  Foster probably not.  But all the others can. 

 

After speed, I think it's route running, hands and blocking.  Special teams is a consideration. That's why I've always suspected it's Duke over Zay.  Same category of guy, but I think Duke is likely better.  Also, as I've been saying, I think Zay can be traded. 

 

Another factor: the more Roberts emerges as a receivee, the less you want to use him as a punt returner.  That makes McKenzie more valuable to the team. If McKenzie has good enough deep speed, then Foster is at risk.  Foster might also be tradeable.  

 

Finally, I think this week is a showcase game.  The guy who gets a lot of targets and catches may be the guy who gets traded.  I'd say Foster, Jones and Williams are the trade bait.  I doubt the Bills can keep all of them, and getting a pick for one would be good. 

[Big Turk]

22 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I haven't seen the games, so I know less than most.  

 

Beasley, Brown and Roberts seem like the only locks.  We saw very little of Jones and Foster recently.  McKenzie, Ray Ray and Williams each has had some highlights.   Of those 5, some may useful special teamers.  Some may have modest trade value.  Jones and Foster have the best experience.

 

Is it a total muddle?  

 

And for that matter, the running back spots are confused, too, principally because Wade keeps making big plays.  Does he actually have a shot at the 53?  Will he take Yeldon's spot?  Does Yeldon actually HAVE a spot?

 

Jones is a lock IMHO

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, Tenhigh said:

I don't remember reading that, but i will take your word for it. Do you remember which teams?

No.  The reports were, I think, that several teams, like 4 or 5, were interested, and I think one or two were named.  It was clear he had choices.  At the time it seemed like he picked the team with the weakest receiving corps. It was January, I think.  Then the Bills signed Beasley and Brown and suddenly he was in a battle.  

 

Still, I think he is a special talent.  I hope he sticks. 

[ROCBillsBeliever]

21 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

I'm completely over Zay at this point. Don't care who it is, but someone should be over him. I'm thinking Zay has to have trade value still though.

 

The Giants would give a higher pick than most  considering their decimated WR corps... or, more accurately, corpse. 

[DJB]

4 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:

This is probably accurate.  We need a WR to fill in for Beasley if/when necessary.

Yes actually I am.

There were several teams interested in his services.

 

I do wonder if Foster or McKenzie could be temporary slot options were something to happen to Beasley

[formerlyofCtown]

2 minutes ago, DJB said:

 

I do wonder if Foster or McKenzie could be temporary slot options were something to happen to Beasley

Foster really improved on hit route running at the end of last season.  I think McKenzie would see time in the slot you really need a twitchy WR in the slot.

[DJB]

3 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Foster really improved on hit route running at the end of last season.  I think McKenzie would see time in the slot you really need a twitchy WR in the slot.

 

Yeah I agree.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:

This is probably accurate.  We need a WR to fill in for Beasley if/when necessary.

Yes actually I am.

There were several teams interested in his services.

 

You are 10000% correct imo. Slot WR role is integral to this offense. I’m not sure there is another guy on the roster that is even close to playing the slot with 5 option routes at the top of the break based on reads and staying in synch with the QB. 

 

I can only think on a couple league wide. 

[mrags]

9 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Keeping Dimarco who serves zero purpose on this team is just insanity. Cutting Wade or one of the te's over DiMarco is foolish. 

Agree 100%

[PirateHookerMD]

5 are a lock. It comes down to Ray Ray vs. McKenzie vs. Duke. 

 

To me, Ray Ray and McKenzie do not add a unique skillset to our stable of receivers. Duke showed on Tuesday something we otherwise do not have on the roster. That said, Ray Ray is a draft pick, and McKenzie has performed. Gonna be a tough call. 

[starrymessenger]

I think last roster spot goes to Ray Ray, McKenzie or Duke. I would take McKenzie over Ray Ray. As between McKenzie and Duke its a toss up. it will partly depend on what parts of the playbook the OC plans to run with, and the fact that McKenzie offers some versatility. Both players have strengths and limitations. On the negative side of things if his ball security is still considered in any way a liability that is a big problem for McKenzie.  In Duke's case I don't know that he has shown much appetite or ability in blocking despite his frame and he doesn't (or hasn't) played ST to my knowledge. That means his "strengths" have to be considered exceptionally strong if he is to make it. He has shown decent hands and tracking ability - a couple of slants and his TD vs the Panthers. I was interested to see whether he could be effective at least in deep intermediate zones since the long ball was a big part of his game in Canada. Barkley had one 35 yard attempt to him that fell a few yards out of bounds. Thing is what looked to be something less than a starting calibre LB was with him pretty much step for step all the way. Also his QB in Canada threw a very receiver friendly ball. Not sure Josh always does the same, not to mention he really hasn't had the chance to develop any chemistry with the starting QB, at least so far.

He apparently was called out by Coach for dogging it in practice. If so that's not a good sign. 

I think his performance in the next two preseason games (and in the practices) will go a long ways in deciding whether he makes it or not. He's still very much in the running IMO, partly because although there is a lot of competition for that spot its not really at a high level. I don't recall there being a lot of interest in him coming out of Canada. If he doesn't make the Bills I think he will be plying his trade again in Canada. I don't really see him as a candidate for the PS. Either he makes the roster or he is gone.

[purple haze]

9 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

Decent ?    He drops balls that are routinely caught by 10 year olds in the neighborhood playing 5 on 5 football 

Yes, decent.  He hasn't been what you want from that high of a pick, but he's decent.  You know who agrees with me so far?  The organization.  So, all you armchair GMs enjoy yourselves.  ??‍♂️

[Teddy KGB]

6 minutes ago, purple haze said:

Yes, decent.  He hasn't been what you want from that high of a pick, but he's decent.  You know who agrees with me so far?  The organization.  So, all you armchair GMs enjoy yourselves.  ??‍♂️

 

John Brown and Cole Beasley say hello ?? 

[purple haze]

4 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

John Brown and Cole Beasley say hello ?? 

Yep, and who is in the starting lineup with them? Hmmm?  Like I said, decent.   And I never said they couldn't do better.   But the narrative that Jones does nothing right, ever, is asinine.

Edited August 19, 2019 by purple haze

[BobbyC81]

On 8/18/2019 at 9:17 AM, ddaryl said:

Looks like some of you may get your wish.. 

 

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/players/zay_jones_trade_rumors_gaining_traction

 

A-hole!  I think some of you actually like looking at that freak.

 

 

6 hours ago, starrymessenger said:

I think last roster spot goes to Ray Ray, McKenzie or Duke. I would take McKenzie over Ray Ray. As between McKenzie and Duke its a toss up. it will partly depend on what parts of the playbook the OC plans to run with, and the fact that McKenzie offers some versatility. Both players have strengths and limitations. On the negative side of things if his ball security is still considered in any way a liability that is a big problem for McKenzie.  In Duke's case I don't know that he has shown much appetite or ability in blocking despite his frame and he doesn't (or hasn't) played ST to my knowledge. That means his "strengths" have to be considered exceptionally strong if he is to make it. He has shown decent hands and tracking ability - a couple of slants and his TD vs the Panthers. I was interested to see whether he could be effective at least in deep intermediate zones since the long ball was a big part of his game in Canada. Barkley had one 35 yard attempt to him that fell a few yards out of bounds. Thing is what looked to be something less than a starting calibre LB was with him pretty much step for step all the way. Also his QB in Canada threw a very receiver friendly ball. Not sure Josh always does the same, not to mention he really hasn't had the chance to develop any chemistry with the starting QB, at least so far.

He apparently was called out by Coach for dogging it in practice. If so that's not a good sign. 

I think his performance in the next two preseason games (and in the practices) will go a long ways in deciding whether he makes it or not. He's still very much in the running IMO, partly because although there is a lot of competition for that spot its not really at a high level. I don't recall there being a lot of interest in him coming out of Canada. If he doesn't make the Bills I think he will be plying his trade again in Canada. I don't really see him as a candidate for the PS. Either he makes the roster or he is gone.

 

I saw Duke on a coverage team vs Carolina.   It was the one where McCloud made the tackle.

Edited August 20, 2019 by ColeB

[Wayne Arnold]

22 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

Well, we have Brown who is potentially a legit #1, and we have Beasley who is definitely a legit slot receiver. Then we have Roberts who is a legit kick/punt returner. After that we are deep in average WRs. What good does that really do us to keep so many?

 

I keep reading about how deep we are at RB. But, in all honesty, Shady is a legitimate concern coming off his worst season, and showing less speed, and agility. Gore is 36, and Singletary is a rookie. I would be surprised if we didn't keep four RBs. And, we'll have a minimum of three TEs. Four would not surprise me there, either. Either way, seven WRs seems highly unlikely to me.

 

Guys like Foster, McKenzie, McCloud and D'haquille have the potential to develop into above-average receivers. The Bills have invested in those players already - it would be tough to let them go then see another team benefit with the fruits of Buffalo's labor. Especially when (not if) one or more of our top 5 receivers go down with injury.

[Freddie's Dead]

My list:

 

Brown

Beasley

Foster

McKittrick

Williams

Roberts

 

YEAH, I SEDDIT!  Bye-Bye Zay-Zay and Ray-Ray!  Hopefully I can trade Zay for a 5th rounder, but he's been outplayed by everyone on this list.  We need Williams for the size alone.  Roberts is clearly our PR, KR guy, with McKittrick as backup.  Maybe I try to get Ray-Ray on the PS, but I have had enough of Zay Jones, so I'm saying when. 

 

[Nelius]

On 8/18/2019 at 3:06 PM, {::'KayCeeS::} said:

 

I wasn't referring to you, actually.  I'm a big fan of your posts.  I should have quoted others.  My bad.  That being said, I think Foster is an absolute lock.  For an UDFA to have contributed as much as he did last year, and then to all of a sudden just throw him to the curb... doesn't make sense to me.

 

I think it makes far more sense than throwing a 2nd round pick to the curb, especially one that that this entire regime from Pegula on down has backed numerous times. Zay is going to get three years to prove himself. 

 

I like Robert Foster a lot, but to assume that he's safe and Zay Jones isn't, especially when Zay was still our leading wide receiver last year despite all of the late season Foster hype, it just doesn't make sense to me. I'd love to keep them all, plus McKenzie. Good problem to have, I guess, but I think people are overrating Foster if they think he's a lock. A UDFA with under 600 career yards that can't shine in preseason isn't a lock now that there's depth.

Edited August 20, 2019 by Nelius

[Nelius]

17 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:

This is probably accurate.  We need a WR to fill in for Beasley if/when necessary.

 

Totally. It's got to be McKenzie.

 

The sad reality for seemingly everyone is that Duke is probably getting cut. Most realistic scenario seems to be Zay, Foster, and McKenzie stay, while Duke and Ray Ray get cut. Here's hoping Duke uses these next two games to make it impossible. Preseason whatever, his TD was beautiful and nobody else on the roster is making that catch.

Edited August 20, 2019 by Nelius

[LSHMEAB]

I don't personally see any reason to keep Ray Ray. There's not really even a Ray Ray/McKenzie competition in my mind. Everything Ray Ray does, McKenzie does better. I'm not a Williams guy myself, but wouldn't have a problem if they found a way to keep him and see what happens. The one thing they could do to make me angry is to keep Ray Ray and dump McKenzie.

[ALF]

Bills 53-man roster projection, mid-preseason      BILLSWIRE

 

Running back (4): LeSean McCoy, Frank Gore, Devin Singletary, Patrick DiMarco

 

Wide receiver (6): Cole Beasley, John Brown, Zay Jones, Robert Foster, Andre Roberts, Isaiah McKenzie

 

Tight end (4): Tyler Kroft, Lee Smith, Dawson Knox, Tommy Sweeney

 

Interior offensive line (5? Mitch Morse, Spencer Long, Jon Feliciano, Quinton Spain, Wyatt Teller

 

Outside offensive line (3): Dion Dawkins, Ty Nsekhe, Cody Ford

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2019/08/19/buffalo-bills-53-man-roster-projection-mid-preseason/

[ganesh]

21 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

If you consider that the offense has specific roles then you might see it this way 

 

speed guys:

brown backed up by Foster.  Roberts probably factors in here too.  Might make Foster expendable for this spot.  

 

slot guys

cole and ?

 

McKenzie and RayRay probably are the only guys here

 

possession wr with versatility:

zay and ?

 

not sure Duke is fast enough, Roberts and Foster not good enough route tree, not sure McKenzie or Ray work here. 

 

 

 

 

Don't forget that Roberts will be taking up one of those WR spots.

[GunnerBill]

53 minutes ago, ALF said:

Bills 53-man roster projection, mid-preseason      BILLSWIRE

 

Running back (4): LeSean McCoy, Frank Gore, Devin Singletary, Patrick DiMarco

 

Wide receiver (6): Cole Beasley, John Brown, Zay Jones, Robert Foster, Andre Roberts, Isaiah McKenzie

 

Tight end (4): Tyler Kroft, Lee Smith, Dawson Knox, Tommy Sweeney

 

Interior offensive line (5? Mitch Morse, Spencer Long, Jon Feliciano, Quinton Spain, Wyatt Teller

 

Outside offensive line (3): Dion Dawkins, Ty Nsekhe, Cody Ford

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2019/08/19/buffalo-bills-53-man-roster-projection-mid-preseason/

 

That is exactly how I would call it (Morse and Kroft health allowing). 

[buffalo2218]

15 hours ago, purple haze said:

Yep, and who is in the starting lineup with them? Hmmm?  Like I said, decent.   And I never said they couldn't do better.   But the narrative that Jones does nothing right, ever, is asinine.

I don’t think the narrative “does nothing right” is accurate as opposed to inconsistency. I really can’t say I’d lose any sleep if Jones is dealt, at least at this point. The 3rd preseason game will tell the tale on that

[ALF]

We'll see if they showcase a player in the next game trying for a trade.

[Shaw66]

7 hours ago, Nelius said:

 

I think it makes far more sense than throwing a 2nd round pick to the curb, especially one that that this entire regime from Pegula on down has backed numerous times. Zay is going to get three years to prove himself. 

 

 If Zay makes it it won't be for these reasons.  It's all about competition and the future.  Where he was drafted or what Kim Pegula may have thought about him won't matter.  No one "gets" anything.  They have to earn it.  

[Rocket94]

7 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

I don't personally see any reason to keep Ray Ray. There's not really even a Ray Ray/McKenzie competition in my mind. Everything Ray Ray does, McKenzie does better. I'm not a Williams guy myself, but wouldn't have a problem if they found a way to keep him and see what happens. The one thing they could do to make me angry is to keep Ray Ray and dump McKenzie.

I hope McKenzie stays. It has been a very spirited effort by Mcloud, but we do we expect. There is probably a small core here that will remain in 2020...the rest are on borrowed time.  Providing Josh Allen with the best weapons to succeed is what this is all about. 

[Mat68]

On 8/18/2019 at 11:23 AM, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Yeldon is toast.

 

I sure hope they keep Wade on the 53. I think there is a reasonably good chance (50/50) Gore is cut or McCoy is traded or possibly cut. 

 

Where exactly has John Brown been? I believe he has two targets and 1 catch in two pre-season games with a goose egg in the last game. I'm sure his spot is safe, but he has seen very little action. I didn't think it was possible at first but I just don't see the value in keeping Zay Jones. He's being consistently outplayed or at least matched by guys drafted much lower than him. If he were not a high draft pick it wouldn't even be a debate about whether he would be cut or not. Maybe they try work a trade for him as it is likely another team could see value in him still and think they can get more out of him. Maybe Washington or the New York Giants? Send Washington Zay and a 2nd rounder for Trent Williams?

Its preseason.  I expect them to continue to utilize the vertical passing attack that was implemented last year. 

 

Brown and Foster will be huge peices of the offense.  To me Daboll is just running basic concepts that NE has used for years.  Working Beasley and the backs underneath to work Allen's consistency on those routes. 

 

I still think Zay will be a part of the offense.  You cant read too much into preseason.  They want to see imo if Roberts can be a legitimate Wr in rotation.  Those reps come from someone.  They are seeing if he can be the 5th Wr if not I expect them to keep 6 wrs.

 

For the running backs, the last 2 games will be crucial.  Yeldon has looked pretty good barring that fumble.  Beane likes Gore way too much to bring him in just to cut him. 

 

I dont expect anyone trading for Shady worth anything.  An expensive 30 yr old RB coming off the worst year of his career is bringing anything more than a late rd conditional pick.  

 

The wild card is still Wade.  He made the 2 best plays of the Bill's preseason thus far.  The whole mantra McDermott spouts that spots are earned in games, no one has made the most of their opportunities then Wade.  I think Wade earned the reps after Singletary.  Give him a larger role in preseason game 3.  See what he does vs better competition.

[purple haze]

2 hours ago, buffalo2218 said:

I don’t think the narrative “does nothing right” is accurate as opposed to inconsistency. I really can’t say I’d lose any sleep if Jones is dealt, at least at this point. The 3rd preseason game will tell the tale on that

Inconsistent is true, but not the narrative.  Read some of these posts over the past several months.  And if Jones is as bad as those people say why would anyone trade for him?  And If he's got enough value to trade him, why not keep him? 

[buffalo2218]

1 hour ago, purple haze said:

Inconsistent is true, but not the narrative.  Read some of these posts over the past several months.  And if Jones is as bad as those people say why would anyone trade for him?  And If he's got enough value to trade him, why not keep him? 

For me, it’d be hard to pass on McKenzie, I think he brings quite a bit to the table. With Jones, this is his 3rd year. While I can’t say what others have said to a certain extreme, I can say that I haven’t really seen enough to believe he’s made the kind of progress we all hoped he would.

 

I realize I may get flamed for saying this, but that drop against the Colts didn’t set well with me, primarily because he does carry a history of drops. That’s the only form of consistency he has up to this point. And when trying to bring along a franchise QB, that’s one thing that’s gonna kill a WR. I’m pretty sure it didn’t set well with McDermott either

Edited August 20, 2019 by buffalo2218

[badassgixxer05]

Zay has had a good camp. He drops one ball and gets his head taken off and all of a sudden he is trash again. Duke Williams catches a couple of balls against a bunch of scrubs and he should be our new #1. People are funny. ? Zay will be on this roster. If Duke is too, it will be at Ray Ray/Mckensie's expense. 

[Nelius]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

 If Zay makes it it won't be for these reasons.  It's all about competition and the future.  Where he was drafted or what Kim Pegula may have thought about him won't matter.  No one "gets" anything.  They have to earn it.  

 

I think it's fair to assume that a 2nd round pick that this regime made may have a slightly longer leash than an UDFA, but whatever, I agree, and the exact same goes for Foster. My response was to somebody who said Foster was a "lock", so we may be going in circles a bit. Doesn't an UDFA that played himself out of the league early last season have to earn his role as well? Seems most are giving him a free pass now

Edited August 20, 2019 by Nelius

[Matt_In_NH]

4 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

 If Zay makes it it won't be for these reasons.  It's all about competition and the future.  Where he was drafted or what Kim Pegula may have thought about him won't matter.  No one "gets" anything.  They have to earn it.  

 

That is how it should work in a perfect world but I dont think most teams do that in reality.  I am confident the Pats operate that way.   Most teams though marry themselves to their high draft picks and will keep them even when the performance does not dictate that.

[Mat68]

Imo they are playing and designing plays for players on the bubble.  Wr is coming down to these couple of questions.   

 

1.  Can Roberts contribute as a regular wr?

 

If yes, then it's a real possibility Buffalo keeps 5 wrs opening day.  Brown, Beasley, Jones, Foster, and Roberts.  Than it's on one of the other players to make some plays to warrant the spot.  Right now I think they are fine keeping 5.

 

2.  Do you want to keep a back up return man on the roster at all times?

 

If you do, McKenzie is the next best punt returner behind Roberts.  This is not a necessity.  Hyde can field punts, and Singeltary could return kicks.  

 

3.  Has any wr outside the top 5 earned a roster spot?

 

I think McKenzie and Williams have both helped themselves the most thus far.  Williams brings a different dimension to the team.  McKenzie fits in to what they already do and can spell multiple positions on offense.  I dont think either has stamped their place on the 53 man roster.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Shaw66]

7 hours ago, Nelius said:

 

I think it's fair to assume that a 2nd round pick that this regime made may have a slightly longer leash than an UDFA, but whatever, I agree, and the exact same goes for Foster. My response was to somebody who said Foster was a "lock", so we may be going in circles a bit. Doesn't an UDFA that played himself out of the league early last season have to earn his role as well? Seems most are giving him a free pass now

I think there are very few guys who DON'T have to earn their spots.  As I've said, I think Beasley and Brown are locks on talent, Roberts as a kick returner.  No one else is a lock.  I think Foster, Duke and Zay may be tradeable.   I think its wide open.  I think it does NOT come down to who is the best.  I think it also depends on special teams play and potential.  I think Zay's problem is he played for two years and didn't stand out.  His potential may be limited. 

[without a drought]

9 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I think there are very few guys who DON'T have to earn their spots.  As I've said, I think Beasley and Brown are locks on talent, Roberts as a kick returner.  No one else is a lock.  I think Foster, Duke and Zay may be tradeable.   I think its wide open.  I think it does NOT come down to who is the best.  I think it also depends on special teams play and potential.  I think Zay's problem is he played for two years and didn't stand out.  His potential may be limited. 

Duke has no trade value.