Teams Wanting To Pick 1st in 2020.....

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

1 hour ago, Cornette's Commentary said:

That's a long-time member of the local media who openly stated that he was willing to give up on Allen after 1 year (granted, Howard hated the Allen pick and went so far as to say that he "didn't want to talk about it" on the morning after last year's draft).

Simon’s just crusty because he never gets drafted as a ‘great sportscaster’ in Schtupp’s ‘Great Sportscaster’ drafts on the afternoon show...

[PromoTheRobot]

Patriots!

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

Does anyone believe that there are NFL Teams that want to tank this season for the top draft selection? I for one do.

 

The Raiders would seem to fit this description. The will be moving to Vegas so there is little gain for them to win this year. They got rid of Amari Cooper, and now they have Peterman lol! I can see them (and btw the Dolphins too) actually throwing in the towel to draft Tua in 2020. Why not add a huge name to draw bigger fan interest and ticket sales?

 

 This thread isn't completely about Tua mind you. He could (God forbid) have a bad year or get hurt. I mean it is possible but even at that, the 2020 draft looks to be amazing. I am mainly just curious as to how many of you think that a team really would intentionally tank to get a better draft position.

 

Raiders aren’t tanking, they spent a ton of money.  They may or may not be good, but they sure are not trying to tank.  

 

Miami yes

[Ennjay]

4 hours ago, Chuck Wagon said:

The "Matt Barkley" potential on Tua is very high IMO, ie media builds him up to be sure #1 pick years in advance, then ends up going much later.

Did you mean Matt Leinart?  Barkley was a 4th round pick, so expectations weren't high.  Leinart would've been the top overall pick after his junior year, slipped to #10 (still first round) after his senior year, and finished his career as the sacrificial starting QB in the Bills' last preseason game one season.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

5 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

Does anyone believe that there are NFL Teams that want to tank this season for the top draft selection? I for one do.

 

The Raiders would seem to fit this description. The will be moving to Vegas so there is little gain for them to win this year. They got rid of Amari Cooper, and now they have Peterman lol! I can see them (and btw the Dolphins too) actually throwing in the towel to draft Tua in 2020. Why not add a huge name to draw bigger fan interest and ticket sales?

 

 This thread isn't completely about Tua mind you. He could (God forbid) have a bad year or get hurt. I mean it is possible but even at that, the 2020 draft looks to be amazing. I am mainly just curious as to how many of you think that a team really would intentionally tank to get a better draft position.

If Peterman mysteriously beats out Carr in TC and is named the starter I might buy into this.

[Bill from NYC]

2 hours ago, mannc said:

I did not know Tua was injured for those games. 

 

I have to say, the ridiculous talent that Alabama is going to be rolling out there every saturday (especially at WR) might make Tua even harder for NFL scouts to evaluate.  I mean, he's going to be throwing all day to guys who are "college open" and who can take it to the house on any given play.    

He really is and 3 of them will be draft eligible and they are stars. One of the (Ruggs) is actually faster than Foster, perhaps even by quite a bit.

I want nothing more than for the Bills to draft one of these 3.

[Ennjay]

I can see the Jets losing a lot of games as a weak roster and bad chemistry snowball.  But ownership (Christopher Johnson) has such a man crush on Darnold that I don't see them taking any QB in 2020.

 

Now in 2021, when Woody Johnson gets back . . .

[Protocal69]

4 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

Yeah, 245/355 (69.9%) - 43 TDs/6 Ints. - 199.5 Passer Rating - 2nd in Heisman Voting.....

 

That really sucks and will help the Bills!

 

Great

But how did he do vs the Big Boys ( Clemson)

[Bill from NYC]

5 minutes ago, Protocal69 said:

But how did he do vs the Big Boys ( Clemson)

He didn't have a good game and the team he faced was the better team that day.

 

Are you actually dumb enough to suggest that Tua cannot produce in the clutch, or just being a troll?

Edited May 24, 2019 by Bill from NYC

[mannc]

42 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

He really is and 3 of them will be draft eligible and they are stars. One of the (Ruggs) is actually faster than Foster, perhaps even by quite a bit.

I want nothing more than for the Bills to draft one of these 3.

The guy who really flashed for me was Waddle.  (I know he's not draft-eligible this year.)  The touchdowns he scored against Auburn and Georgia were just insane.  I mean, he totally embarrassed a bunch of NFL caliber DBs after he caught the ball.  And he has hands, too.

Edited May 24, 2019 by mannc

[Protocal69]

50 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

He didn't have a good game and the team he faced was the better team that day.

 

Are you actually dumb enough to suggest that Tua cannot produce in the clutch, or just being a troll?

Im being dead serious. No way would I draft Tua before the 3rd round. What makes you think Tua is THAT guy

[Doc Brown]

My guess is there's going to be a Tua/Herbert/Fromm debate next year like there were with the four QB's in 2018.  My guess is the Raiders, Bengals, Bucs, and Dolphins will all be potential suitors.  Maybe the Chargers, Saints, or Patriots (god help us) trade up.  I'm still laughing at the Giants btw.

 

The WR class next year has the potential to be as highly touted as the '14 class so if we don't have a good year we'll be able to get Allen a true #1 WR next draft.

[WideNine]

6 hours ago, NewEra said:

Imo, the only guy in college worth tanking for is Lawrence

 

That hippy can ball.

 

 

 

[The Senator]

 

I hope Tua Tagovailoa works out as well for the Raiders as JaMarcus Russell did. ?

.

[HOUSE]

Whom in the 2020 draft is worth tanking for? NOBODY

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, Protocal69 said:

Im being dead serious. No way would I draft Tua before the 3rd round. What makes you think Tua is THAT guy

Have you seen a lot of Tua? His game doesn’t have a lot of (or really any) holes. Accurate, smart, experienced, athletic, with an elite pedigree doesn’t lead to a lot of questions for me. His size maybe is a concern but other than that he’s a big time prospect. He has a very, very, very high floor.

[Bill from NYC]

3 hours ago, Protocal69 said:

Im being dead serious. No way would I draft Tua before the 3rd round. What makes you think Tua is THAT guy

I'm sorry, I really did think that you were trolling.

 

Tua is VERY accurate and has a very good arm. Do you like "process" guys? Nick Saban invented the term and he LOVES this kid. Tua said that chose Alabama because he would get the most exposure and he wants to build his father (a minister) a church. I have actually seen him put his arm around Saban. NOBODY does that, and Saban talks about what a great kid he is.

 

He sees the field like nobody else in the NCAA in terms of reading defenses and is really smart. He has a strong lower body and can run. Is he clutch? You tell me. He came into a championship game in the 2nd half as a true freshman, with his team down, and getting beat. He brought them back to a tie and the Bama kicker missed a chip shot FG for the win, forcing the game into OT. Georgia scored a FG. It was looking so, SO bad. And then this:

 

 

[LSHMEAB]

I don't think any team goes into the season with the intention of tanking. I do think there comes a point in the season where they start to think about it. It's just really difficult to pull off. Do you sit your QB? Sit all your best players for long stretches? Very tough. The only position you'd tank for is QB, so all the stars have to align to make it worth your while.

 

GM's in baseball have much longer leashes so you see a ton of major rebuilds. It's far more beneficial to tank in basketball because one top 5 pick(at any position) can immediately transform your team AND it's easier to convince your players to "have a little fun out there." Take (unnecessary) chances. Much more difficult with football.

 

 And obviously, players are not down with a tank so you have to be sly about it.

Edited May 25, 2019 by LSHMEAB

[Dave Allen]

So signing Peterman to compete for the third QB spot behind Carr and Glennon is a sign the Raiders are planning to tank? Wow. 

[mannc]

3 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

I don't think any team goes into the season with the intention of tanking. I do think there comes a point in the season where they start to think about it. It's just really difficult to pull off. Do you sit your QB? Sit all your best players for long stretches? Very tough. The only position you'd tank for is QB, so all the stars have to align to make it worth your while.

 

GM's in baseball have much longer leashes so you see a ton of major rebuilds. It's far more beneficial to tank in basketball because one top 5 pick(at any position) can immediately transform your team AND it's easier to convince your players to "have a little fun out there." Take (unnecessary) chances. Much more difficult with football.

 

 And obviously, players are not down with a tank so you have to be sly about it.

The most obvious NFL tank job I can remember was the Bills last game of the 2016 season, when they fired Rex, started EJ, and lost to the hapless Jets.  It worked like a charm.  But you’re right; NFL teams don’t tank an entire season.  Not fair to guys who are putting their bodies on the line every Sunday.

Edited May 25, 2019 by mannc

[Ol Dirty B]

9 hours ago, JoeF said:

This might be crazy, but I also think Darnold is on shaky ground this year too.  If the Jets have a bad start, I could see Gase wanting to toss out Darnold for Tua...I think our Josh is on much more stable ground than Darnold or Rosen when it comes to prospects for longevity with his current team. 

 

I never really thought about it before Rosen but rookie QBs on their first contract are really a tradeable and cut losses commodity in the slotting era...You may not get back huge value -- but the only way you are trading them is if you have a very high draft pick for a replacement.  From then, trading the existing guy like the Cards did with Rosen is just cutting your losses.

 

I know he just successfully ran the gm out of town, but the ownership of that organization will pick Darnold over Gase.

 

Gase will be fired at the end of the year if he pulls some crap like that. I can't see a guy with already a questionable ability to work with both players and executives, and having nothing to show for his head coaching experience getting that done in NY of all places.

 

We may like Josh more, but almost all othera have liked Darnold more from pre-draft through their first season.

Edited May 25, 2019 by Ol Dirty B

[Buffalo716]

4 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

I'm sorry, I really did think that you were trolling.

 

Tua is VERY accurate and has a very good arm. Do you like "process" guys? Nick Saban invented the term and he LOVES this kid. Tua said that chose Alabama because he would get the most exposure and he wants to build his father (a minister) a church. I have actually seen him put his arm around Saban. NOBODY does that, and Saban talks about what a great kid he is.

 

He sees the field like nobody else in the NCAA in terms of reading defenses and is really smart. He has a strong lower body and can run. Is he clutch? You tell me. He came into a championship game in the 2nd half as a true freshman, with his team down, and getting beat. He brought them back to a tie and the Bama kicker missed a chip shot FG for the win, forcing the game into OT. Georgia scored a FG. It was looking so, SO bad. And then this:

 

 

Ok I like Bama but I’ve seen a good amount of guys put their arms around Saban and hug him lol

 

Tua is a stud and I liked him back to HS but I wouldn’t use that as your benchmark lol

 

talk about his high football IQ and ability to split the cover 2 

[gobills1212]

Grass is green,

The sky is blue,

tank for tua?

Its up to you!

[Bronxbomber21]

I can only see teams tanking for QB T. Lawrence out of Clemson. When is he coming out of school?

[Buffalo Barbarian]

16 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

Does anyone believe that there are NFL Teams that want to tank this season for the top draft selection? I for one do.

 

The Raiders would seem to fit this description. The will be moving to Vegas so there is little gain for them to win this year. They got rid of Amari Cooper, and now they have Peterman lol! I can see them (and btw the Dolphins too) actually throwing in the towel to draft Tua in 2020. Why not add a huge name to draw bigger fan interest and ticket sales?

 

 This thread isn't completely about Tua mind you. He could (God forbid) have a bad year or get hurt. I mean it is possible but even at that, the 2020 draft looks to be amazing. I am mainly just curious as to how many of you think that a team really would intentionally tank to get a better draft position.

 

probably waiting for Trevor Lawrence.

 

 

16 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I am not convinced yet on Tua. As for teams tanking..   Miami and Cincy are top of my list. I actually think Oakland will be improved. Not good yet, but better. 

 

Some poster on here said during the Alabama championship that we should tank for Tua, LOL , for two whole years , idiot .

 

 

[GunnerBill]

12 hours ago, TigerJ said:

Anything is possible, Joe.  I know Arizona's situation was unique in that they just signed a new coach who is committed to an offensive system that to this point has not existed in the NFL in it's pure form.  Andy Reid incorporated some elements because Pat Mahomes is is QB, but Kingsbury wanted the best QB he could get for his system, and Rosen was not it.   I don't know who is the Jets' OC but I think Gase is philosophically in the West Coast family.  At this point there is no reason to think Darnold won't be able to handle a Gase offense, but if for some reason Darnold is just awful or Gase is arrogant enough to lust after his own QB despite Darnold proving to be a solid starter in 2019, he could decide to cut bait and trade him.  I don't think it is the most likely future for the Jets, but I can't rule it out.

 

If the Jets ditch Darnold to keep Adam Gase they deserve everything they get. Darnold is going to be a good one and Gase is a clown.

[GunnerBill]

Just on Tua - I agree with the comments about his receiving talent but what I really think makes him a hard e v a l is the quality protection. Most of last season he was standing back there in clean pockets and demonstrating his arm and his accuracy. But in those playoff games against better competition (and I do take Bill's point about injury) but I thought when pressure started to get home - especially against Clemson - he got a little rattled, his usually immaculate footwork fell apart and his timing was suddenly off and as a result the ball placement suffered). None of which is particularly unusual for a young kid who is suddenly under siege back there but as an evaluator you want to see how he grows and learns the next time he is in that scenario - it is part of maturing as a Quarterback. The problem is you might have to wait until the playoffs again next year to see it. I like Tua. I think the kid can play. But I am not totally sold on him as a top 10 of the 1st type QB yet.... the thing is I don't know when I will get to see what I want to see that will convince me because his team is so good. 

[Albany,n.y.]

10 hours ago, mannc said:

The most obvious NFL tank job I can remember was the Bills last game of the 2016 season, when they fired Rex, started EJ, and lost to the hapless Jets.  It worked like a charm.  But you’re right; NFL teams don’t tank an entire season.  Not fair to guys who are putting their bodies on the line every Sunday.

That was more a case of not playing Tyrod Taylor because he had a clause that guaranteed his next season's salary if he got injured at a time when the team wasn't sure if they were going to keep him for 2017.   

[mannc]

2 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

That was more a case of not playing Tyrod Taylor because he had a clause that guaranteed his next season's salary if he got injured at a time when the team wasn't sure if they were going to keep him for 2017.   

It was both.  And it put them in position to draft not one, but two, franchise QBs.?

[TPS]

On 5/24/2019 at 9:48 AM, Bill from NYC said:

Does anyone believe that there are NFL Teams that want to tank this season for the top draft selection? I for one do.

 

The Raiders would seem to fit this description. The will be moving to Vegas so there is little gain for them to win this year. They got rid of Amari Cooper, and now they have Peterman lol! I can see them (and btw the Dolphins too) actually throwing in the towel to draft Tua in 2020. Why not add a huge name to draw bigger fan interest and ticket sales?

 

 This thread isn't completely about Tua mind you. He could (God forbid) have a bad year or get hurt. I mean it is possible but even at that, the 2020 draft looks to be amazing. I am mainly just curious as to how many of you think that a team really would intentionally tank to get a better draft position.

Tua would be a good match for the “las Vegas” Raiders. There are a lot of islanders that live in Vegas, having left because they can’t afford to live in Hawaii. You’d get plane loads flying in for the home games too. 

 

[Doc Brown]

The reason it's hard to tank is that players care more about money than the future of the franchise as they should considering it's just a job.  They'll play their absolute best to obtain job security, future contracts, meeting contract incentives, etc...  GM's also have to at least make it look like they are trying to field a winning team to keep the fan base engaged and sell tickets.  I'd argue the Raiders were trying to tank last year in getting rid of Mack and Cooper yet they still couldn't finish with the worst record.

[H2o]

On 5/24/2019 at 10:56 AM, mannc said:

Very much agree.  He’s played poorly in the few games in which Alabama was not able to completely out-match its opponent.  I’m not even convinced Tua’s a first-rounder.

Not true. Watch the 2nd half of the 2018 title game. 

[mannc]

40 minutes ago, H2o said:

Not true. Watch the 2nd half of the 2018 title game. 

Garbage time

[H2o]

8 hours ago, mannc said:

Garbage time

Uhhhhhhh, he brought his team back to win. 

[atlbillsfan1975]

I don’t think teams ‘tank’. I do think new coaches come in and learn and evaluate. I think we are going to begin to see a pattern with new coaches being hired and moving on from aging QB’s. 

Not sure about this next year, Cincy would make the most sense. New coach, wants his guy at QB. Dalton’s days are numbered, AJ isn’t getting any younger. 

 

As for the 2021 draft I can see Carolina firing Ole River Boat Ron after this season and the new coach giving Cam a season before moving on for Lawrence. Cam had surgery in the offseason and hasn’t had a great season the last few years. Take away the Super Bowl year and he is slightly above average QB who makes some spectacular plays occasionally. He has another mediocre year followed by a bad year Carolina will gladly move on. 

 

Tua is good. He had two bad games but he was also hurt, and those were good defenses he was playing against. 

This year will really show what Tua is. UGA and Clemson played against Tua in 2017. They had first hand knowledge of what he does and then a total years worth of tape on him. Pretty mush everyone Tua plays this year will be able to say the same thing. I will reserve judgement till after the college year is complete.

Edited May 26, 2019 by atlbillsfan1975

[mannc]

4 hours ago, H2o said:

Uhhhhhhh, he brought his team back to win. 

Sorry, thought you were referring to this year’s Clemson game...

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

On 5/24/2019 at 5:33 PM, HOUSE said:

Whom in the 2020 draft is worth tanking for? NOBODY

...leave it to the Jets.....seeing Gase in action is well worth the price of admission....think he could orchestrate "tankology" without much effort.....

[formerlyofCtown]

On 5/24/2019 at 9:48 AM, Bill from NYC said:

Does anyone believe that there are NFL Teams that want to tank this season for the top draft selection? I for one do.

 

The Raiders would seem to fit this description. The will be moving to Vegas so there is little gain for them to win this year. They got rid of Amari Cooper, and now they have Peterman lol! I can see them (and btw the Dolphins too) actually throwing in the towel to draft Tua in 2020. Why not add a huge name to draw bigger fan interest and ticket sales?

 

 This thread isn't completely about Tua mind you. He could (God forbid) have a bad year or get hurt. I mean it is possible but even at that, the 2020 draft looks to be amazing. I am mainly just curious as to how many of you think that a team really would intentionally tank to get a better draft position.

Yes that is why the Raiders added all that talent.  It was so they could tank.?

Edited May 27, 2019 by formerlyofCtown

[4merper4mer]

On May 24, 2019 at 4:27 PM, Doc Brown said:

My guess is there's going to be a Tua/Herbert/Fromm debate next year like there were with the four QB's in 2018.  My guess is the Raiders, Bengals, Bucs, and Dolphins will all be potential suitors.  Maybe the Chargers, Saints, or Patriots (god help us) trade up.  I'm still laughing at the Giants btw.

 

The WR class next year has the potential to be as highly touted as the '14 class so if we don't have a good year we'll be able to get Allen a true #1 WR next draft.

It probably won't cost the Pats much to trade up from 6.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

On 5/24/2019 at 7:13 AM, GunnerBill said:

 

If Josh sucks this year I am for full tank in 2020 to be in position for Lawrence. I think that kid would be in the top half of the league for QBs right now. 

 

Edit: I should say I am not expecting Josh to suck. I think he will take a step forward. 

Would you fire Beane and McD if Josh sucks? Would you give them another draft to get a QB?

On 5/24/2019 at 5:15 PM, Dave Allen said:

So signing Peterman to compete for the third QB spot behind Carr and Glennon is a sign the Raiders are planning to tank? Wow. 

No but letting him start against the Ravens was