What does our defensive line base look like?

[Virgil]

With McD primarily running a nickel defense, what does our starting defensive line look like (also taking rotation into effect). 

 

Granted, I know we run different packages, short yardage, etc, but I’m still curious how we are going to use all of these guys in a way that justifies what we gave up for them. 

 

Oliver - #9 overall 

Star - Big Contract 

Harrison Phillips - 3rd rounder just last year 

Jordan Phillips - Just re-signed 4.5 mil

 

I’m assuming 

 

Base D - Star (2 man clog) Oliver (Rush)

Short Yardage - Star/Jordan

Pass Rush - Oliver/Harrison 

 

There’s also a wide 9 they sometimes run which might have Harrison - Star - Oliver.  

 

In any case, it seems like Harrison just got the short end of the stick to me.

 

Does Oliver line up at DE on some plays with Lorax beside him?  Lorax - Oliver - Harrison - Star - Hughes

 

Am I interpreting this the right way?

Edited April 28, 2019 by Virgil

[Juice_32]

I don’t think so, simply because of the snap counts from last season at DT. They were on a pretty even rotation.

 

Oliver is essentially replacing Kyle. All 4 of them will be getting a ton of snaps, no less than last season.

[Virgil]

Just now, Juice_32 said:

I don’t think so, simply because of the snap counts from last season at DT. They were on a pretty even rotation.

 

Oliver is essentially replacing Kyle. All 4 of them will be getting a ton of snaps, no less than last season.

 

I hope that’s not true. Because that’s a big pick for someone who’s going to rotate and share with 3 guys for 2 spots 

[CaptnCoke11]

4 minutes ago, Virgil said:

 

I hope that’s not true. Because that’s a big pick for someone who’s going to rotate and share with 3 guys for 2 spots 

Yeah I’d be willing to bet that heavy rotation goes out the window now. 

Edited April 28, 2019 by CaptnCoke11

[Kirby Jackson]

3 minutes ago, Virgil said:

 

I hope that’s not true. Because that’s a big pick for someone who’s going to rotate and share with 3 guys for 2 spots 

If the concern is the number of snaps Oliver is going to get I wouldn’t worry about it. He will be out there a lot and used to his strengths. Oliver is going to be a superstar because of that athleticism whether he’s plays 50% of the snaps, 60% or 100%. His impact won’t just be felt by his numbers either. You’ll see an uptick in production from the edge guys and in turnovers because he will be living in the backfield.

[Fixxxer]

we will se a lot of rotation within the DL, McD and Frazier like it like that and I have to say that it has been a productive way to keep everyone fresh.

[Boca BIlls]

2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

If the concern is the number of snaps Oliver is going to get I wouldn’t worry about it. He will be out there a lot and used to his strengths. Oliver is going to be a superstar because of that athleticism whether he’s plays 50% of the snaps, 60% or 100%. His impact won’t just be felt by his numbers either. You’ll see an uptick in production from the edge guys and in turnovers because he will be living in the backfield.

YOu do know he wont care people have been saying this since the moment he was drafted and Virgil cannot understand... Well refuses to b.c they didnt get the guy HE wanted.

[BuffaloRebound]

I assume he’ll get 65-70% of the snaps like Kyle had last year.  That’s what Geno Atkins, a comp to Oliver, had also.  

[Virgil]

10 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said:

YOu do know he wont care people have been saying this since the moment he was drafted and Virgil cannot understand... Well refuses to b.c they didnt get the guy HE wanted.

 

I actually didn’t have a specific guy I wanted.  But thanks for reading my mind. And now that it seems you have a personal thing for me, which is absolutely adorable, let me explain. 

 

The Top 10 pick should be an immediate impact player. Someone who should be a consistent starter.  

 

I didn’t think we stood a chance to get Bosa or Josh Allen.  Those, to me, were the biggest impact players.   When Allen fell past 5, I immediately wanted them to trade up.  Anything higher than that wasn’t worth what we’d have to give up. 

 

Once he went, I wanted Hock as that’s a huge need on our offense. 

 

So yes, I’m disappointed in Oliver.  Not because I don’t like the kid. In fact, I loved how he’s reacted and handled himself since being drafted.  My issue is how he will be used.  I don’t want any player at 9 that isn’t a full time starter.  If he’s going to make Harrison take a back seat, okay.  But it not, then I’m not a fan.  I’d have rathered a trade back, OLB, TE, or OT.  

 

I’m happy we got Ford in the 2nd. I’m not sure how I feel about Knox as his production didn’t show up in college.  Foster’s one of the few players I can think of that’s found a way to turn it on in then NFL. 

 

So, please pick your fight elsewhere.  I overall know that the organization knows 1000% more than anyone else on this board and their drafts the past two years have the best I’ve seen.  

 

Also, please utilize grammar.  Reading your horrific syntax makes me go cross-eyed

Edited April 28, 2019 by Virgil

[Simon Says]

36 minutes ago, Juice_32 said:

I don’t think so, simply because of the snap counts from last season at DT. They were on a pretty even rotation.

 

Oliver is essentially replacing Kyle. All 4 of them will be getting a ton of snaps, no less than last season.

Kyle was 35,Oliver is ,what 21 22? Might move him outside at times,too

[Kirby Jackson]

41 minutes ago, Virgil said:

 

I actually didn’t have a specific guy I wanted.  But thanks for reading my mind. And now that it seems you have a personal thing for me, which is absolutely adorable, let me explain. 

 

The Top 10 pick should be an immediate impact player. Someone who should be a consistent starter.  

 

I didn’t think we stood a chance to get Bosa or Josh Allen.  Those, to me, were the biggest impact players.   When Allen fell past 5, I immediately wanted them to trade up.  Anything higher than that wasn’t worth what we’d have to give up. 

 

Once he went, I wanted Hock as that’s a huge need on our offense. 

 

So yes, I’m disappointed in Oliver.  Not because I don’t like the kid. In fact, I loved how he’s reacted and handled himself since being drafted.  My issue is how he will be used.  I don’t want any player at 9 that isn’t a full time starter.  If he’s going to make Harrison take a back seat, okay.  But it not, then I’m not a fan.  I’d have rathered a trade back, OLB, TE, or OT.  

 

I’m happy we got Ford in the 2nd. I’m not sure how I feel about Knox as his production didn’t show up in college.  Foster’s one of the few players I can think of that’s found a way to turn it on in then NFL. 

 

So, please pick your fight elsewhere.  I overall know that the organization knows 1000% more than anyone else on this board and their drafts the past two years have the best I’ve seen.  

 

Also, please utilize grammar.  Reading your horrific syntax makes me go cross-eyed

Sorry Virgil but you lost me at the bolded part. With the possible exception of Quinnen Williams I’m not sure that there was a player in this draft that could make more of an immediate impact than Oliver. He’s that special and has the EXACT skill set that this team is missing. That inside pressure is the new thing in this league and he is elite at it. He’s going to be a superstar. Go back and watch the clips from early in his career (before he was misused and protecting his draft status). He was absolutely dominant. 

Edited April 28, 2019 by Kirby Jackson

[chris heff]

Could you guys knock off the petty personal attacks it’s childish and annoying. 

 

Kirby Jackson is right, Oliver will make the entire d-line better, he is a disruptive force. He will get plenty of snaps. In today’s NFL inside rushers have become more important. The best way to counter a quick release is a guy in that QB’s face.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

If he is even 90% of Aaron Donald we are in for a real treat!

[Virgil]

9 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Sorry Virgil but you lost me at the bolder part. With the possible exception of Quinnen Williams I’m not sure that there was a player in this draft that could make more of an immediate impact than Oliver. He’s that special and has the EXACT skill set that this team is missing. That inside pressure is the new thing in this league and he is elite at it. He’s going to be a superstar. Go back and watch the clips from early in his career (before he was misused and protecting his draft status). He was absolutely dominant. 

 

I get it and I have.  Again, it’s not against Oliver.  It’s how we use defensive lineman.  Will McD adjust his rotations and let the kid stay out there?  If so, then I’m great with it. 

 

If the rotation continues like it has, that’s where I’m concerned.  

 

Am I taking crazy pills for thinking that way?

[billsfan1959]

14 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Sorry Virgil but you lost me at the bolder part. With the possible exception of Quinnen Williams I’m not sure that there was a player in this draft that could make more of an immediate impact than Oliver. He’s that special and has the EXACT skill set that this team is missing. That inside pressure is the new thing in this league and he is elite at it. He’s going to be a superstar. Go back and watch the clips from early in his career (before he was misused and protecting his draft status). He was absolutely dominant. 

Absolutely spot on. Had Oliver not sustained the knee injury and had he not been misused, he would have been a top 2 or 3 pick. He will make Star, Jerry and even Shaq better as well (not to mention the LBs behind him). 

 

A special player.

[Da webster guy]

McD has always said he adjusts his Dline rotation based on in-game analysis and how his line is handling their matchups.

 

If Ed is consistently winning and doesnt seem gassed you can expect him to stay in.  He does that with Jerry when he gets hot.  Remember that Kyle and Star are older dudes carrying more weight.

 

If Ed plays like we hope he will, there isn't a sub-package I can think of that wouldn't include that guy.  Penetrating 3 techs are great vs run, pass, short yardage, goal line, 3rd and longs etc 

 

 

 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

Rotation, rotation, rotation.

[Kirby Jackson]

27 minutes ago, Virgil said:

 

I get it and I have.  Again, it’s not against Oliver.  It’s how we use defensive lineman.  Will McD adjust his rotations and let the kid stay out there?  If so, then I’m great with it. 

 

If the rotation continues like it has, that’s where I’m concerned.  

 

Am I taking crazy pills for thinking that way?

I wouldn’t say that you are taking crazy pills but you are over analyzing it. You are equating impact to snap count. Kyle Williams and Jerry Hughes both played about 65% of the snaps last year. Whether it was Allen, Bosa or Oliver the Bills were looking to rush the passer. Oliver has the clearest path to the field of any of those guys because no one on the roster can rush from the inside. I’ve advocated playing Shaq at the 3 technique on certain plays over the last couple of years. This was a massive need. I’m thinking that Oliver will be somewhere between the 65% of snaps that those guys played and the 80% that a guy like Fletcher Cox played. I’m thinking he’s around 70% and they will be impactful.

[chris heff]

I could post this in about three different threads, and have said it before. The road to any success for the Buffalo Bills goes through New England and Tom Brady. WRs are nice, as are TEs and OTs, but if you want to beat Brady you have to rush four or five, you have have pressure up the middle and constantly be in his face. Ladies and gentlemen I give you Ed Oliver.

[vincec]

It will be a heavy rotation. McDermott and Frazier aren't going to change their basic philosophy over a rookie. Maybe if he actually does turn into Aaron Donald they will make some adjustments but not at this point.

Edited April 28, 2019 by vincec

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Hmmm... so the DT depth is too good?

 

First world problems. 

[Bookie Man]

I could see Oliver playing 70% of snaps and possibly a little more. I like DL rotation. Those big dudes can get gassed out lol! I like that in the 4th quarter our guys are going to be fresher than yours. 

[Rocket94]

53 minutes ago, Virgil said:

 

I get it and I have.  Again, it’s not against Oliver.  It’s how we use defensive lineman.  Will McD adjust his rotations and let the kid stay out there?  If so, then I’m great with it. 

 

If the rotation continues like it has, that’s where I’m concerned.  

 

Am I taking crazy pills for thinking that way?

I think that you are right on. Just the fact that Beane explored the possibility of Frank Clark, Ziggy Ansah and perhaps Clowney, tells me that the Bills want to address the Dline and edge further. I would like to see another player that has a similiar skill set of Olivers. Someone to compliment Hughes as well. The current group is simply not good enough. 

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, Virgil said:

 

I hope that’s not true. Because that’s a big pick for someone who’s going to rotate and share with 3 guys for 2 spots 

 

DTs are always rotational and we got one that can make a big impact in that rotation immediately. 

 

you are also overrating Harrison Phillips 

1 hour ago, Virgil said:

 

I get it and I have.  Again, it’s not against Oliver.  It’s how we use defensive lineman.  Will McD adjust his rotations and let the kid stay out there?  If so, then I’m great with it. 

 

If the rotation continues like it has, that’s where I’m concerned.  

 

Am I taking crazy pills for thinking that way?

 

On some level I’ve got to ask if you are really concerned about the shift in about 5 or so snaps a game between 2-3 guys?

[BillsFan17]

1 hour ago, Juice_32 said:

I don’t think so, simply because of the snap counts from last season at DT. They were on a pretty even rotation.

 

Oliver is essentially replacing Kyle. All 4 of them will be getting a ton of snaps, no less than last season.

We all love Kyle, but let's be honest, Oliver at nine is vastly different than Kyle Williams at the end of his career.

[nedboy7]

Oliver could end up being more impactful than Bosa or JA.  I am super excited for this pick.  He is perfect for this team. 

[HappyDays]

I feel like a move for another DE is coming. We didn't add a single edge rusher until the 7th round. No way they believe in Shaq Lawson and Trent Murphy that much. I also expect Hughes to get an extension.

[NewEra]

I think Oliver should be in every sub package as long as he’s not winded.  He’s amazing in short yardage situations and that actually might be his best sub package

2 hours ago, Virgil said:

With McD primarily running a nickel defense, what does our starting defensive line look like (also taking rotation into effect). 

 

Granted, I know we run different packages, short yardage, etc, but I’m still curious how we are going to use all of these guys in a way that justifies what we gave up for them. 

 

Oliver - #9 overall 

Star - Big Contract 

Harrison Phillips - 3rd rounder just last year 

Jordan Phillips - Just re-signed 4.5 mil

 

I’m assuming 

 

Base D - Star (2 man clog) Oliver (Rush)

Short Yardage - Star/Jordan

Pass Rush - Oliver/Harrison 

 

There’s also a wide 9 they sometimes run which might have Harrison - Star - Oliver.  

 

In any case, it seems like Harrison just got the short end of the stick to me.

 

Does Oliver line up at DE on some plays with Lorax beside him?  Lorax - Oliver - Harrison - Star - Hughes

 

Am I interpreting this the right way?

Oliver can line up anywhere.  He’s that good. Keeping him fresh will allow him to be more impactful.  He’s in the perfect situation. 

[Paul Costa]

Oliver is a smidge undersized. Buts he’s crazy quick for the position. Less is more with him. His snaps will be quality snaps. He will be defining the game from the inside. Kyle was slightly above average the last couple of years. He made pro bowls the last two years more out of respect for the man than his actual body of work. Go back and watch him even 3 or 4 years ago and you see a big difference. I didn’t reply to piss on Kyle. I replied to say that I think Oliver is going to make this defense a lot better, especially Star @ Jerry. And he doesn’t have to be in there every play. My guess would be 60-65%.

[FLFan]

13 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

 

 

 

you are also overrating Harrison Phillips 

 

I think many Bills fans have been guilty of over estimating the role and potential impact of Phillips, which is perhaps the cause of so many being down on him now.  He is not an elite penetrator and was not drafted to be one.  In fact the Bills did not draft him as a 3-tech, although they have used him there at times.  I think he will be a very productive player for the Bills but he is certainly not in Oliver's class, or Kyle's for that matter.  

[Virgil]

27 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

On some level I’ve got to ask if you are really concerned about the shift in about 5 or so snaps a game between 2-3 guys?

 

I guess it’s about investment to me.  We paid a bunch for Star. A 3rd round pick isn’t a throw away.  Jordan hasn’t been a lot, thankfully. And now a 9th overall. 

 

From that perspective, I really would hope to see this line dominate and free up our DE’s and LBs

[Chandler#81]

No love for high priced DL Trent Murphy? What? Oft injured? PED-ophile? At a minimum, he’s going to bring heat with Oliver busting up the middle!

[Jerome007]

32 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said:

We all love Kyle, but let's be honest, Oliver at nine is vastly different than Kyle Williams at the end of his career.

Kyle was a 6th time pro bowl selection? Sure he had lost a few steps, and I hope Oliver is better than him, a real gem, a 95% Darnold! But so far, he is an unproven rookie, while Kyle delivered for years and years. People are so in love with draft picks. Milano is a 5th rounder that turned out pretty damn good. Many undrafted guys have been impact players. And... many 1st rounders have been "busts", and not as in Canton HoF busts.... What matters is NFL play, not potential or draft rank.

 

 

[papazoid]

murphy - star- oliver- hughes

[billspro]

55 minutes ago, Virgil said:

With McD primarily running a nickel defense, what does our starting defensive line look like (also taking rotation into effect). 

 

Granted, I know we run different packages, short yardage, etc, but I’m still curious how we are going to use all of these guys in a way that justifies what we gave up for them. 

 

Oliver - #9 overall 

Star - Big Contract 

Harrison Phillips - 3rd rounder just last year 

Jordan Phillips - Just re-signed 4.5 mil

 

I’m assuming 

 

Base D - Star (2 man clog) Oliver (Rush)

Short Yardage - Star/Jordan

Pass Rush - Oliver/Harrison 

 

There’s also a wide 9 they sometimes run which might have Harrison - Star - Oliver.  

 

In any case, it seems like Harrison just got the short end of the stick to me.

 

Does Oliver line up at DE on some plays with Lorax beside him?  Lorax - Oliver - Harrison - Star - Hughes

 

Am I interpreting this the right way?

 

Base will probably be Hughes- Star-Oliver- Murphy 

 

Run stop Oliver- Harrison- Star- Shaq

 

Pass Rush- Hughes- Shaq- Oliver- Alexander

[Dopey]

2 hours ago, Virgil said:

 

I get it and I have.  Again, it’s not against Oliver.  It’s how we use defensive lineman.  Will McD adjust his rotations and let the kid stay out there?  If so, then I’m great with it. 

 

If the rotation continues like it has, that’s where I’m concerned.  

 

Am I taking crazy pills for thinking that way?

I'm thinking there will be an adjustment. Kyle was 35 yrs. old. We now have a young stud(hopefully), who should be able to handle more snaps. Now if Harrison is playing well enough to keep the rotation the same as laat year, that's a good problem to have.

[The Now Moment]

35 minutes ago, Virgil said:

 

I guess it’s about investment to me.  We paid a bunch for Star. A 3rd round pick isn’t a throw away.  Jordan hasn’t been a lot, thankfully. And now a 9th overall. 

 

From that perspective, I really would hope to see this line dominate and free up our DE’s and LBs

Quality snaps over quantity.  Yes they have invested a lot up front but if they rotate and get quality snaps and quality push, why complain? You know what drives me nuts, watching a player be overused up front and they just lean on the offensive lineman essentially taking the play off.  What good is that to the defense?  

 

Doesn't matter if Ed gets 60% of snaps or 90% as long as he is getting quality snaps along with the rest of them.  That's the point in the rotation right?  So if he can handle 90% of the snaps and they are all quality snaps, then so be it but if he can't...let him rest and bring in another quality guy ready to make a push.  

 

What happens WHEN injuries hit that group?  I'd rather have quality backups than some no name that gets pushed around like we always have year after year.  Relax and enjoy the depth my friend.  Don't overthink it

[Boatdrinks]

47 minutes ago, Virgil said:

 

I guess it’s about investment to me.  We paid a bunch for Star. A 3rd round pick isn’t a throw away.  Jordan hasn’t been a lot, thankfully. And now a 9th overall. 

 

From that perspective, I really would hope to see this line dominate and free up our DE’s and LBs

Can’t care too much about what guys are getting paid ( maybe at contract time) or what was given up. This FO is building something in their vision. As long as the overall cap situation is good, the compensation part doesn’t matter much. McDs scheme is a rotation , and that won’t change. They knew KE retiring left a huge hole and they got the perfect player to fill it. That was never going to be Phillips 

[ganesh]

3 hours ago, Juice_32 said:

I don’t think so, simply because of the snap counts from last season at DT. They were on a pretty even rotation.

 

Oliver is essentially replacing Kyle. All 4 of them will be getting a ton of snaps, no less than last season.

Also remember that College Players usually don't last a full 16-game season.  Their body is used to a 12+1 season in college and it takes them a year to adjust to a full 16 games + playoffs.   Oliver will be brought on slowly and he is very likely to hit the rookie wall!

[Buddo]

Chances are, as someone else pointed out, Oliver will naturally play more snaps than Kyle did, due to being a dozen or so years younger.

 

Anyone who thinks that top 10 picks in todays NFL see every snap on their side of the ball, is not paying attention.

 

I'm sure Oliver is going to have a serious impact for the Bills D, but that impact might be lessened, if he isn't used to the best advantage, which will mean some rotation to keep him fresh.

 

Explosiveness has a physical cost, and for all these guys are professional athletes, it's nigh on impossible to keep up throughout a game.