Thoughts on new Oline?

[dayman]

Can you guys help me think through the line? Los of topics about improvements which I agree with b/c we got a bunch of new guys but looking through the wiki for each quickly (since I'm not that familiar with them)...isn't the center the only one guy that's unambiguous starting quality guy? So him plus Dawkins leaving us with 2 confirmed solid Olineman? 

Edited April 5, 2019 by dayman

[Victory Formation]

Well, I'm pretty sure Mitch Morse is a huge upgrade to Russell Bodine and dare I say it he is also an upgrade over Eric Wood which says a lot and this says a lot about how good Morse is because I view #70 as an all time great. Dion Dawkins is also a better player than given credit for, I think he'll have a rebound year. He stuttered largely because of the marginal talent he was surrounded by. LG, RG and RTis still an enigma to me. Just keeping it real.

[Virgil]

I feel like we are now completely set at 4 of the positions.  We have an option at RT, but I think that's the only spot left for them to bring in competition.  I wouldn't be shocked if they went OT at 9 still.  Either way, it's infinitely better than it was before

[US Egg]

They haven't practiced together yet.

 

Outside of a know-it-all soothsayer, no one could formulate an intelligent serious opinion on the new O-line so soon.

 

Unless one is throwing darts at this.

 

 

Edited April 5, 2019 by I am the egg man

[BuffaloBillyG]

I'm no OL guru like some here, but this is how I see it.

 

-Morse is a huge improvement.

-Tellar will have to earn play time this year. Spain and Feliciano are steady players with experience.

-They brought in not 1 but 2 of the better swing tackles. One will likely win the RT job. I know Nsheke was signed first and for more money, but I like Waddles chances. 

-Dawkins had a down year but sounds really motivated to turn it around. I wouldn't count him out for a bounce back and having better talent around him will help that.

 

Wouldn't shock me to see a tackle taken high, but also wouldn't be that big a shock if they wait until late day 2 or 3.

[nucci]

I think only thing that is certain is we have a very good Center....that alone makes the line better

[TC in St. Louis]

I am an all-knowing soothsayer.  These were not random dart throws.  These are players that Beane and company feel will make us a much better team.  I think they actually have too many players now.  But that is an opinion, not a fact from an all-knowing soothsayer.  

[BuffaloBillies]

Great Center and MANY movable parts along the rest of the line that will all shake out during camp. Love the fact that they all need to compete to be starters. Dion has an inside track to at least start (LT, LG?, RT?), but the rest will need to earn a spot. The great thing is, they are all average-to-above-average players... so by the time the starting 5 is established, I don't foresee any weak links. Last year we had 3 1/2 weak links. This is the massive OL overhaul they've needed for 20 years. Love it. Go Bills.

[wppete]

Bean has put together a good Oline on paper. If they gel together this offseason and pre season we should be good.

[Doc]

Spain and Long are/were longtime starters and I expect them to win the starting OG spots.  If someone beats them out, so much the better. At RT it’s either Nsekhe or Waddle, but my money’s on Nsekhe.  

[Rufridr101]

The shady bunch 

[CaptnCoke11]

3 minutes ago, Doc said:

Spain and Long are/were longtime starters and I expect them to win the starting OG spots.  If someone beats them out, so much the better. At RT it’s either Nsekhe or Waddle, but my money’s on Nsekhe.  

I think Feliciano will be the RG and beat out Long there.  Long will be the C/G swing guy.  

Edited April 5, 2019 by CaptnCoke11

[Doc]

Just now, CaptnCoke11 said:

I think Feliciano will be the RG and beat out Long there.  Long will be the C/G swing guy.  

 

Could be. The competition will be fierce. 

[CBD]

1 hour ago, dayman said:

Can you guys help me think through the line? Los of topics about improvements which I agree with b/c we got a bunch of new guys but looking through the wiki for each quickly (since I'm not that familiar with them)...isn't the center the only one guy that's unambiguous starting quality guy? So him plus Dawkins leaving us with 2 confirmed solid Olineman? 

I'm not even sure Dawkins is truly a quality player. 

 

There will be alot of competition which will hopefully give them a league average line this year. My guess for starters is Dawkins-Spain-Morse-Long-Nsekhe. Feliciano provides guard/center depth.

[Pete]

I really like what Beane has done with the Oline.  I like that we have veterans at every position.  It is deep.  Cuts will be tough.  Dawkins-Spain-Morse-Long-Nyseke with Teller, Waddle, Feliciano, Boettger, Sirles, Fisher as reserves.  We will most likely only keep 8 OL.  So for those who still want to draft OL- we have to cut 3 reserves as is.  For every OL drafted, we will have to cut an additional OL.  I am quite pleased that OL is set.  Now we can concentrate on drafting playmakers at TE, RB, WR, and Defense!

Edited April 5, 2019 by Pete

[NWPABillsfan]

         Well a few years ago some one on here said draft a QB every year until we get a good one. Now I see this OL off season as the some what the same. Bring in a lot of OL and let them complete until the starting 5 show up and take the jobs. GO BILLS

[SCBills]

My guess is we roll with:

 

Dawkins - Spain - Morse - Long - Nsekhe

 

Waddle - Feliciano - Teller

 

Maybe it’s not a Top 5 OL out the gate, but it’s got a lot of potential, experience and depth. 

[Chuck Wagon]

I think Morse is the only one in the group with a sure spot, and the money matches that.  The other 4 spots are all up for grabs and the best guy is going to play.

[hondo in seattle]

If I were a GM or HC, I’d want 3 solid starters and 2 Pro Bowlers on my OL.   We have a bunch of decent starters and quality depth guys. We lack elite talent anywhere on the OL and I think Beane will look to the draft to fix that.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

My only fear is they spend too much time during camp "tinkering" and doesn't give the eventual starting five time to develop teamwork.  I'd go with Morse, Spain and Dawkins at three slots and unless someone comes out of the blue to beat them out, you're set there. That leaves two slots with 2 to 3 guys battling it out for each.  And again would try and settle quickly on the winner at both.

 

I will predict one of the signings will get cut as not sure you'll want to have that much money for the backups at the expense of cutting all the young cheap guys. They seem to like Sirles and not sure they are ready to give up on Ike or McDermott yet. Think if it's close between one of these three and the FA signings, one of the FA signings may be the one to be cut.

[Pete]

The Bills signed Sirles to, you guessed it, a one year extension.  He can play inside or out, and can be 6th OL when we go big.  My guess is Sirles is in Bills plans.  

 

We have much depth at OL and WR.  Cuts will be very tough.  Might Beane swing a trade?  Player trades are big in the NFL these days, especially this time of year.  Mr Beane is a dealmaker

[Kirby Jackson]

The OL is close to set. They may add another guy in the mid rounds (tackle maybe) but as it stands now they will be cutting guys that have played a lot. They absolutely aren’t taking an OL early. The plan was clearly to address OL in FA. The Bills signed a top center, 2 surefire starters that we are underrating on here in Spain and Nsekhe, Dawkins still has a spot as well. That leaves 1 open spot (RG) and Long, Teller, Feliciano, Sirles, Boettger, Bodine, Vlad etc... competing for it. Waddle is your swing tackle and a couple of the guys trying for RG as your depth. You are likely keeping 8 (at most 9) OL. 

[mjt328]

When it comes to Free Agency, always keep in mind.... There was a reason these players were allowed to leave their former teams.  All of them have flaws and question marks.  And if you are expecting us to suddenly have the NFL's best blocking unit, you will probably be disappointed.  At the same time, very good players can be found in Free Agency every single year.  Guys like Lorenzo Alexander, Micah Hyde and Jordan Poyer were fantastic upgrades that came from Free Agency.  While all of these players have question marks, every addition gives us reason to be optimistic as well.

 

 

Mitch Morse has consistently proven to be a Top 10 center in the NFL.  There is a reason he was our top target, and he's the addition most of us are excited about.  Of course, there are some concerns about his injury history - specifically with concussions.  For a team forced into tough cap decisions, the Chiefs were not willing to make a long-term commitment for that very reason.  If he stays healthy, this should be an awesome signing for us.

 

Ty Nsekhe was widely considered the best backup OT in the NFL.  He's been stuck behind a perennial Pro-Bowler in Trent Williams and pretty good RT in Morgan Moses.  Every time he's gotten into the starting lineup (16 starts in 4 years), he's performed extremely well.  As long as he fits the scheme, there is no reason to believe he won't be a tremendous upgrade for us.  The only issue here is age.  He got a late start in the NFL and already turns 34 in October.

 

Quinton Spain has been a solid starter for the Titans for the last 3-4 years.  Nothing Pro-Bowl level, but certainly better than anything we've fielded since Ritchie Incognito left.  From what I understand, he doesn't quite fit the scheme that new Titans offensive coordinator Arthur Smith wants to run.  That's what made him expendable.  For us, adding a "solid" guard is a monstrous improvement.

 

Spencer Long was a pretty good player for the Redskins, but then completely bombed after signing a decent contract with the Jets last year.  Which player are we getting?  There are many who think he just wasn't a great Center and will be better with a move-back to Guard.  Time will tell. 

 

Jon Feliciano was considered strong depth for the Raiders.  LaAdrian Waddle was considered strong depth for the Patriots.  Last year, both of these guys would have been unquestioned starters on the Bills, because our roster was so weak.  I imagine both will be given the chance to win a starting position.  But if not, they will give us strong depth.

 

 

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

When it comes to Free Agency, always keep in mind.... There was a reason these players were allowed to leave their former teams.  All of them have flaws and question marks.  And if you are expecting us to suddenly have the NFL's best blocking unit, you will probably be disappointed.  At the same time, very good players can be found in Free Agency every single year.  Guys like Lorenzo Alexander, Micah Hyde and Jordan Poyer were fantastic upgrades that came from Free Agency.  While all of these players have question marks, every addition gives us reason to be optimistic as well.

 

 

Mitch Morse has consistently proven to be a Top 10 center in the NFL.  There is a reason he was our top target, and he's the addition most of us are excited about.  Of course, there are some concerns about his injury history - specifically with concussions.  For a team forced into tough cap decisions, the Chiefs were not willing to make a long-term commitment for that very reason.  If he stays healthy, this should be an awesome signing for us.

 

Ty Nsekhe was widely considered the best backup OT in the NFL.  He's been stuck behind a perennial Pro-Bowler in Trent Williams and pretty good RT in Morgan Moses.  Every time he's gotten into the starting lineup (16 starts in 4 years), he's performed extremely well.  As long as he fits the scheme, there is no reason to believe he won't be a tremendous upgrade for us.  The only issue here is age.  He got a late start in the NFL and already turns 34 in October.

 

Quinton Spain has been a solid starter for the Titans for the last 3-4 years.  Nothing Pro-Bowl level, but certainly better than anything we've fielded since Ritchie Incognito left.  From what I understand, he doesn't quite fit the scheme that new Titans offensive coordinator Arthur Smith wants to run.  That's what made him expendable.  For us, adding a "solid" guard is a monstrous improvement.

 

Spencer Long was a pretty good player for the Redskins, but then completely bombed after signing a decent contract with the Jets last year.  Which player are we getting?  There are many who think he just wasn't a great Center and will be better with a move-back to Guard.  Time will tell. 

 

Jon Feliciano was considered strong depth for the Raiders.  LaAdrian Waddle was considered strong depth for the Patriots.  Last year, both of these guys would have been unquestioned starters on the Bills, because our roster was so weak.  I imagine both will be given the chance to win a starting position.  But if not, they will give us strong depth.

 

 

Great post!!

[Mickey]

As bad as the line was last year, this new line could hardly help being better. Is it play off caliber though? I have no opinion on that until I see them actually play together as a unit. In the end though, there is no question that we are moving in the right direction.

[BuffaloHokie13]

11 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

The OL is close to set. They may add another guy in the mid rounds (tackle maybe) but as it stands now they will be cutting guys that have played a lot. They absolutely aren’t taking an OL early. The plan was clearly to address OL in FA. The Bills signed a top center, 2 surefire starters that we are underrating on here in Spain and Nsekhe, Dawkins still has a spot as well. That leaves 1 open spot (RG) and Long, Teller, Feliciano, Sirles, Boettger, Bodine, Vlad etc... competing for it. Waddle is your swing tackle and a couple of the guys trying for RG as your depth. You are likely keeping 8 (at most 9) OL. 

Wouldn't it be wild if the line actually ends up being Nsekhe, Dawkins, Morse, Spain, Waddle? Or even swap Waddle for Jawaan Taylor, for argument's sake.

[IgotBILLStopay]

There are two reasons to expect an improvement.

 

First the talent upgrade - as pointed out above Morse, Nsekhe, Waddle and even Long could have been Bills' starters last year purely on talent. The talent upgrade is particularly for pass blocking and I am still unsure how good these guys are in run blocking (that has always been Spain's weakness).

 

Second is continuity. Last year we did not have a set line and were subbing guys in and out through the season. Now hopefully, a clear rotation will be established in TC and that should see some benefits. People forget that knowing each other's tendencies is crucial for a disciplined and effective OLine.

[TigerJ]

There is a 100% certainty that Dawkins and Morse will start.  I think the odds are 80% or better that Nsekhe and Spain will win starting jobs at their positions.  That leaves one spot where in my mind there is a lot of uncertainty.  At the remaining guard spot, my best guess is that Feliciano and Teller have the best opportunity to compete to start.  Long has the best versatility on the interior of the line and I think McDermott will be tempted to use him as a swing guard/center in relief.

[Victory Formation]

51 minutes ago, CBend said:

I'm not even sure Dawkins is truly a quality player. 

 

There will be alot of competition which will hopefully give them a league average line this year. My guess for starters is Dawkins-Spain-Morse-Long-Nsekhe. Feliciano provides guard/center depth.

I think Dawkins will be fine with a lil bit of stability on that OL. The rest of what you said is spot on.

[BmarvB]

Well, the new guys can't be any worse than what we had last season. That's a plus already.

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Wouldn't it be wild if the line actually ends up being Nsekhe, Dawkins, Morse, Spain, Waddle? Or even swap Waddle for Jawaan Taylor, for argument's sake.

It’s possible for sure!! I think that the OG additions ensure that Dawkins remains at tackle but the OL will look WAY different. 

[BuffaloHokie13]

3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

It’s possible for sure!! I think that the OG additions ensure that Dawkins remains at tackle but the OL will look WAY different. 

I agree re: Dawkins. But I find it interesting that they have 2 guys who are perceived as 'better on the left'. So that lineup was where I ended up when trying to follow the 'play your best 5' mentality.

[YattaOkasan]

1 hour ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

There are two reasons to expect an improvement.

 

First the talent upgrade - as pointed out above Morse, Nsekhe, Waddle and even Long could have been Bills' starters last year purely on talent. The talent upgrade is particularly for pass blocking and I am still unsure how good these guys are in run blocking (that has always been Spain's weakness).

 

Second is continuity. Last year we did not have a set line and were subbing guys in and out through the season. Now hopefully, a clear rotation will be established in TC and that should see some benefits. People forget that knowing each other's tendencies is crucial for a disciplined and effective OLine.

Spain's tape on playside reach and combo blocks is really good.  He has seemed to struggle pulling and walling off the backside.  

 

Generally I think the line will be above average but not great.  I think that with an above average receiving corp will result in a lot of good.  Crazy to think we are only like 17th in OL spending after this FA (similar with WR).

[DrDawkinstein]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Could be. The competition will be fierce. 

 

1 hour ago, Chuck Wagon said:

I think Morse is the only one in the group with a sure spot, and the money matches that.  The other 4 spots are all up for grabs and the best guy is going to play.

 

Looks like we're going to have a real Camp Competition for starting spots and NFL jobs along a good portion of our OL. Let the big boys loose! Should be fun!

 

Plus, all that competition on the OL will help drive the DL to be better too!

 

Can't Wait!

 

 

Edited April 5, 2019 by DrDawkinstein

[Kirby Jackson]

15 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

I agree re: Dawkins. But I find it interesting that they have 2 guys who are perceived as 'better on the left'. So that lineup was where I ended up when trying to follow the 'play your best 5' mentality.

FWIW, I think that Nsekhe is their best OT. That could certainly be their best 5.

[Logic]

I feel great about 4 out of the 5 spots.

I'd like to see the Bills add one more legitimate tackle via the draft.

[billspro]

Really excited to see how the oline battle plays out in TC. 

[JM57]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

The Bills signed Sirles to, you guessed it, a one year extension.  He can play inside or out, and can be 6th OL when we go big.  My guess is Sirles is in Bills plans.  

 

We have much depth at OL and WR.  Cuts will be very tough.  Might Beane swing a trade?  Player trades are big in the NFL these days, especially this time of year.  Mr Beane is a dealmaker

I think Jake Fisher, if he shows decently in camp, throws a wrench in the Sirles plans. There's not really as much of a need to go into a tackle eligible package like they did with Sirles late in the year when you have a pretty big former OT at TE to be that 6th OL

[Dkollidas]

2 hours ago, SCBills said:

My guess is we roll with:

 

Dawkins - Spain - Morse - Long - Nsekhe

 

Waddle - Feliciano - Teller

 

Maybe it’s not a Top 5 OL out the gate, but it’s got a lot of potential, experience and depth. 

This looks about right.

 

I could see Feliciano starting over Long. 

 

I could also see Waddle starting over Nsekhe.

 

i think they draft one more tackle deeper in the draft. 

 

Ducasse will be cut. McDermott, Sirles and Boettger are the odd men out. 

 

I would go with:

 

LT- Dawkins / Waddle

LG- Spain / Teller

C- Morse / Bodine

RG- Long / Feliciano 

RT- Nsekhe / *Rookie*

 

could see them putting Teller on practice squad as well. 

[Kelly the Dog]

Just posted this in Spain thread but it belongs here.... It’s impossible to know, it’s easy to argue against, but the optimist in me can see an advantage in all new guys, as vets, with a new coach, being able to gel quicker because they are all starting from same place, together, versus 3-4 guys who played together for a couple years in one system under same coach trying to learn a new way with 1-2 additions, likely rookies, which is the way it normally happens. 

 

Especially with top, vet, cerebral C calling shots.