Ty Dunne: What Happened in Green Bay

[Warcodered]

29 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

He did this one interview a few years ago  -  can’t remember which media outlet - and they made an innocuous comment about how height. He reacted very defensively and pissed. I need to look this up now. 

 

Edit: yup, here it is. It was 60 Minutes 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/deadspin.com/aaron-rodgers-is-very-sensitive-about-his-height-5957852/amp

Wow Jennings and Matthews sound like they're taking care of a toddler.

[racketmaster]

But I thought culture did  not matter lol

[BillyWhiteShows]

4 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Super interesting in-depth article by Ty Dunne about the breakup of Aaron Rodgers and mike McCarthy in GB. Dunne covered the Packers before he covered the Bills (and has since moved on the national nfl coverage) so has some access within the organization 

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2828649-what-happened-in-green-bay

 

 

 

 

Saving this link....can’t wait to read

[KD in CA]

2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Well said.  Plenty of awful teams have good culture.  There are girl’s youth soccer teams that have good culture of drinking juice boxes after games that never score goals.  

 

Winning = culture 

 

Come on man, juice boxes are terrible.  Just sugar.

 

We bring those little oranges for the girls during halftime.

[eball]

2 hours ago, Logic said:

Did you read the whole Dunne article? It sure seems like it's more than just "QB becomes successful, QB gets big ego". He seems overly sensitive, petty, isolated, and refuses to accept blame for anything. Who knows if the article accurately represents Rodgers, but if it does, it paints him in a very negative light.

 

Don't stop him, he's on a roll...

[turftoe]

What Green Bay needs is someone who will conform to Aaron Rodgers' demands. You know, someone who smiles a lot and does what he is told. Enter Nathaniel Hackett.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

3 hours ago, Logic said:

Did you read the whole Dunne article? It sure seems like it's more than just "QB becomes successful, QB gets big ego". He seems overly sensitive, petty, isolated, and refuses to accept blame for anything. Who knows if the article accurately represents Rodgers, but if it does, it paints him in a very negative light.

 

I always thought he was kind of a jerk from The Bachelorette of all things.  His brother was on the show - and his brother basically said... he doesn't talk to anyone in the family anymore.  And the worst part was that there wasn't like - a falling out moment like you would expect in something like that.  AR didn't appear on the show or anything - didn't defend himself based on what his brother/family said.  Really weird.

[LeGOATski]

Classic narcissism for Rodgers.

 

Classic self-righteousness for McCarthy.

 

Not a good mix.

[BigdaddyinOrlando]

1 hour ago, eball said:

 

Don't stop him, he's on a roll...

Lol except you forgot:

Germans? Pearl Harbor?

[Doc]

3 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

do you have a recommended betting site?   I def want to bet over on Bills!

 

https://www.bovada.lv/?referral=P4614C95&extcmpid=rafcopy&overlay=join

 

Kirby Jackson (the poster) gets a referral bonus.

[stuvian]

sounds like McCarthy should never be a HC again

[ThurmasThoman]

This is a really, really, really good article and I encourage everyone to read it.

It's so good, in fact, that it has me curious as to how the Packers will do this coming season, and I'm looking forward to seeing how they fare in week 1.

Which THEN got me thinking: a "fun" offseason activity for us NFL junkies--collecting the best story from every team that highlights the adversity the team is facing, and what's on the line for the coming season. What is the best article that you can find for, like, the Baltimore Ravens that (as a Buffalo Bills fan) would have you on the edge of your seat to see how their season goes? It would take some serious dedication--basically scanning their boards for the pieces like this Packers one, but every team has a story, and every team is has consequences for their performance. I would love to read an article like this about the Rams, or the Saints, or the Colts--something that gives a sense of urgency to clubs I normally don't care about!

And this article would DEFINITELY be numero uno for the Packers--I challenege ANY football fan to read this and then not be curious to see how the Pack do next year! I want to feel this way about the other 30 (not Buffalo!) teams in the league next year.

[GunnerBill]

Ty is a fantastic journalist. 

[ThurmasThoman]

2 hours ago, BringBackFlutie said:

Seems like a lot of people in this thread don't understand what culture means.  NE, for instance, has the strongest culture of any organization I've ever seen.

I agree with this whole heartedly.

Culture is something that you can't begin to appreciate until you work in a company that has a bad culture. It permeates every decision-it drains people. It leaves everyone questioning everything, but most importantly, they question their own self worth. Because NO ONE likes to think that they, themselves, are the problem, people try to work harder to overcome it, which eventually leads to burnout and resentment--then finger pointing and backstabbing. This can happen at ANY company, from a 7-11 to the Buffalo Bills. If you are or have been a middle manager, and you have worked for a place with a bad culture, you understand why sports teams fail on a level that entry level employees will simply never grasp. 

I'm not going to sit here and say it's Rogers or McCarthy's fault, because I don't follow the Packers. But I will say that fixing something like this can take years, and often times requires a full house cleaning. As hard as it might be to conceptualize, the Pack might be better off trading Rogers and starting from scratch. Maybe they go 11-5 next year and lose in the divisional round with him, and 4-12 without him, but longterm it might be their best bet.

But again--I don't know, because I'm not there. And I quoted you because YES, full stop YES, the Patriots have, bar none, the best culture in professional sports, not just the NFL. I know someone below you quoted their morality guru leaving as a sign of their demise, but no--culture is not tied to any one individual, or the morality of any particular person. That is what makes culture so magical--it transcends personality. People subjugate their own desires and benefits for the betterment of the whole, which in turn provides better opportunities for each individual, giving them a greater chance to be successful, which in turn creates a fertile ground for individual growth and sacrifice, which in turn leads to greater success. I mean--this isn't some wishy washy, new age foo foo talk--companies pay millions and millions of dollars to try to create it. All I can say is that in my limited time on this planet--it seems more like lightening in a bottle than specific, formulaic work. Some people just ***** "click" together and end up becoming the Beatles, or the Patriots, and it's magical--and some people have all the talent in the world, like Guns N Roses, or the Packers, and youre left asking "what could have been", because egos get in the way, or leadership is lacking, or Culture just isn't there to make it work.

This is just awesome, awesome stuff! Love the article, love the opinions!

[Toesy]

IMO Rodgers is the GOAT-other than drafting the guy, GB management has been pretty lousy his whole time there-it would bug anybody.

[BringBackFlutie]

58 minutes ago, JohnnyGold said:

I agree with this whole heartedly.

Culture is something that you can't begin to appreciate until you work in a company that has a bad culture. It permeates every decision-it drains people. It leaves everyone questioning everything, but most importantly, they question their own self worth. Because NO ONE likes to think that they, themselves, are the problem, people try to work harder to overcome it, which eventually leads to burnout and resentment--then finger pointing and backstabbing. This can happen at ANY company, from a 7-11 to the Buffalo Bills. If you are or have been a middle manager, and you have worked for a place with a bad culture, you understand why sports teams fail on a level that entry level employees will simply never grasp. 

I'm not going to sit here and say it's Rogers or McCarthy's fault, because I don't follow the Packers. But I will say that fixing something like this can take years, and often times requires a full house cleaning. As hard as it might be to conceptualize, the Pack might be better off trading Rogers and starting from scratch. Maybe they go 11-5 next year and lose in the divisional round with him, and 4-12 without him, but longterm it might be their best bet.

But again--I don't know, because I'm not there. And I quoted you because YES, full stop YES, the Patriots have, bar none, the best culture in professional sports, not just the NFL. I know someone below you quoted their morality guru leaving as a sign of their demise, but no--culture is not tied to any one individual, or the morality of any particular person. That is what makes culture so magical--it transcends personality. People subjugate their own desires and benefits for the betterment of the whole, which in turn provides better opportunities for each individual, giving them a greater chance to be successful, which in turn creates a fertile ground for individual growth and sacrifice, which in turn leads to greater success. I mean--this isn't some wishy washy, new age foo foo talk--companies pay millions and millions of dollars to try to create it. All I can say is that in my limited time on this planet--it seems more like lightening in a bottle than specific, formulaic work. Some people just ***** "click" together and end up becoming the Beatles, or the Patriots, and it's magical--and some people have all the talent in the world, like Guns N Roses, or the Packers, and youre left asking "what could have been", because egos get in the way, or leadership is lacking, or Culture just isn't there to make it work.

This is just awesome, awesome stuff! Love the article, love the opinions!

Yes.  This is what I was getting at.  Culture is not morality or honesty or whatever individual thing people come up with.  It's a common way of being, across an organization, that is not only inherently part of every employee's actions, but also understood by them.  Culture is so much closer to "what it means to be a Bill," than it is that "players here have good character."  I don't care if it's a team of scum bags; if everyone is on the same page, works together towards a goal, adhering to and believing in a system, doing what everyone else does and understanding why that's important, that's a good culture (although I hesitate to define it, since a good culture can be so so much more and come in different flavors).

Edited April 4, 2019 by BringBackFlutie

[ColoradoBills]

[Cripple Creek]

8 hours ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

in my opinion the GOAT QB.

ummmmmm, no

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

6 hours ago, Logic said:

Did you read the whole Dunne article? It sure seems like it's more than just "QB becomes successful, QB gets big ego". He seems overly sensitive, petty, isolated, and refuses to accept blame for anything. Who knows if the article accurately represents Rodgers, but if it does, it paints him in a very negative light.

....good observation bud and I agree.....hell he could be a BIGGER disruptive diva/pariah than Big Ben......

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Super interesting in-depth article by Ty Dunne about the breakup of Aaron Rodgers and mike McCarthy in GB. Dunne covered the Packers before he covered the Bills (and has since moved on the national nfl coverage) so has some access within the organization

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2828649-what-happened-in-green-bay

 

Wow.  Just Wow. 
 

Thanks for the find, Yolo

 

9 hours ago, whatdrought said:

Dang. Rodgers is a bit of an A-Hole....

 

What does these new revelations about Rodgers mean for the Favre - Rodgers relationship? Do we still believe the simple answer that Favre was a curmudgeonly old man?

 

Well.  It is reported that when Rodgers met Favre, he greeted him with "good morning, Grandpa!".  Rodgers denies this, but doesn't deny calling Favre "Grandpa" during their joint time in Green Bay.

 

You do the math

[whatdrought]

21 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Wow.  Just Wow. 
 

Thanks for the find, Yolo

 

 

Well.  It is reported that when Rodgers met Favre, he greeted him with "good morning, Grandpa!".  Rodgers denies this, but doesn't deny calling Favre "Grandpa" during their joint time in Green Bay.

 

You do the math

 

I find the first part hard to believe because Rodgers didn’t have a broken jaw before the first camp... lol 

 

i guess i never realized Rodgers was such a nice guy...

Edited April 5, 2019 by whatdrought

[Fan in Chicago]

Egos should be managed especially if they belong to great QBs. It is much easier to find a decent coach who can ride a great QB to the Superbowl than the other way around. What surprises me is how obstinate the GB front office has been over the McCarthy era. Seeing the dynamics between Rodgers and MM, they should have canned the coach and hired someone who can work within Rodgers ego to win Superbowls. My favorite example is the Bulls' Phil Jackson. 

Plenty of blame to go around, and I am not excusing Rodgers, but sometimes the grand goal is more important than the means (within rules and regulations ofcourse). 

[Poleshifter]

It seems incredible that Rodgers held his draft day grudge against the 49ers OC (McCarthy).

 

Knowing that the GM typically makes the call on draft choices, how does Rodgers justify holding his grudge against the OC?

 

I had no idea Aaron Rodgers was such an irrational person.

 

[billsredneck1]

12 hours ago, stuvian said:

sounds like McCarthy should never be a HC again

i believe the firing of avp was a big butt burn for rodgers. i could be wrong.

[Toesy]

McCarthy is easily replaceable-not Rodgers.

[dollars 2 donuts]

Outstanding article.  Not a surprise that it is a Dunne article.

 

Too bad, though, they couldn't have the great "touchy-feely" relationship that Brady and Belichick have.

[Andy1]

What a mess and waste of talent. Those rookie receivers must have had their heads spinning trying to figure out which route to run. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

12 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Wow.  Just Wow. 
 

Thanks for the find, Yolo

 

 

Well.  It is reported that when Rodgers met Favre, he greeted him with "good morning, Grandpa!".  Rodgers denies this, but doesn't deny calling Favre "Grandpa" during their joint time in Green Bay.

 

You do the math

 

Yikes.  Know your role... You were drafted to be heir apparent, and you are eventually literally taking his job.  You should be wanting to learn from the guy, and be humble.  

[Shaw66]

Great article.  

 

When i listen to McD it sounds like they're building to avoid this kind of thing.  Article should be required readi.g for McBeane and Allen.

 

Belichick and Brady got this right, and that's why they have the rings and McCarthy and Rodgers don't.

 

If haven't read it, it's worth it.  

Edited April 5, 2019 by Shaw66

[Watkins90]

I think the blame goes all the way around with the Packers' demise. Some is lopped on Aaron, more is lopped on the ineptitude of McCarthy, but the most blame should go to Ted Thompson. All of this could have continued to be hidden under the rug if the guy would have embraced building a team with balance. What I mean by that is using both free agency and the draft to build the team, not just the draft. 

 

Rodgers got a Packers team with the 32nd ranked defense in the league to a 15-1 record. Think about that, a 15-1 record with the worst statistical defense in the league. They lost the wild card that year, I believe, 51-45. If I was a QB, I would be ***** pissed off. 

 

I'm not trying to absolve Rodgers of blame, but at the end of the day, the team won because of him.

[blacklabel]

Really great piece. Ty is super talented, always turns out good stuff.

 

The hang up with this article though, is that it's a lot of "he said this, and then they said that" type of stuff. You have guys like Jennings and Finley who are like, "Rodgers was a baby" while you have Ryan Grant saying, "He's a perfectionist and that's part of what makes him great." And now, some of the players mentioned in the story (but who did not contribute a quote) have spoken out. John Kuhn tweeted earlier that he was never aware of his coach missing any meetings for a massage nor was he ever thrown under the bus by his QB. So... while I'm sure there is merit to all the things that were said, like anything, there are multiple sides to each story. Everyone quoted is speaking from their own perspective with their own feelings mixed in with it. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle and I wonder if we'll see some more players who were around during this whole situation speak up.

 

Either way, definitely a good read and it's really hard to dispute that Rodgers doesn't have a super fragile ego. Even before this piece came out, he's always been seen as a guy who doesn't lead well and a guy who seems to cut out anyone who isn't marching to the beat of his drum. McCarthy on the other hand, has gotta be clueless if he thinks it was his schemes that caused all the success. Seems like both guys probably just needed to swallow their pride some, hash it out and move forward. But they're both too stubborn and arrogant to do that and therefore the whole team suffered. 

 

Ted Thompson and Mark Murphy sure seem like they could share in the blame as well. Both guys were in authoritative positions but never intervened. I understand most executives wanna let their HC's run the show when it comes to matters directly related to the team but sometimes you gotta go step in.

 

It'll be interesting to see how things play out. 

[HomeTeam]

6 minutes ago, Watkins90 said:

I think the blame goes all the way around with the Packers' demise. Some is lopped on Aaron, more is lopped on the ineptitude of McCarthy, but the most blame should go to Ted Thompson. All of this could have continued to be hidden under the rug if the guy would have embraced building a team with balance. What I mean by that is using both free agency and the draft to build the team, not just the draft. 

 

Rodgers got a Packers team with the 32nd ranked defense in the league to a 15-1 record. Think about that, a 15-1 record with the worst statistical defense in the league. They lost the wild card that year, I believe, 51-45. If I was a QB, I would be ***** pissed off. 

 

I'm not trying to absolve Rodgers of blame, but at the end of the day, the team won because of him.

This is just disappointing that Rodgers would act in this way. While his talent is undeniable, if not the best ever (statistically speaking), this irrational behaviour tarnishes my image of him (if true- which we can assume given all the evidence over the years). 

 

Blame can go all around but you expect your quarterback to be the leader of the team. You expect him to be proactive in solving problems and creating a good working environment. I guess the argument can be made that QBs are not always the leaders of the team, even though you'd hope they were. 

 

Makes you appreciate Tom Brady that much more. Half the physical talent of Rodgers but twice the leader. That's why Tom is considered the GOAT and Aaron Rodgers is "just" a really really good HOF quarterback. 

 

I'm hoping he can do some self reflecting and develop some humility and turn things around because he's an exceptional talent. 

 

Hopefully, Josh Allen can be the guy because fortunately, his intangibles are off the charts. 

[Kelly the Dog]

That's one helluva article. Dunne at his best. He's truly one of the best football writers anywhere. 

[Reed83HOF]

I assume Dunne is now on Rodgers bad side - no balls being thrown his way anymore

[Gugny]

McCarthy was not a great Head Coach.

 

Rodgers may be the biggest douchebag in the history of the sport.

 

Tom Brady might scream, yell and throw stuff on the sidelines - but at the end of the day, he respects his teammates and his coaches.  That's what makes Brady, "Brady."  And Rodgers' lack of respect for anyone is what makes him, "Rodgers."

 

McCarthy didn't ruin Aaron Rodgers.   And I don't think Rodgers necessarily ruined McCarthy.  McCarthy allowed Rodgers to call the shots; he allowed Rodgers to disrespect and undermine him.  That's what ruined McCarthy's career.  

 

It's my opinion that the Packers' failures during Rodgers' tenure are mostly on Aaron Rodgers.  Of course ... he's scoff at the idea.  Because he's such a douche.  And I hope that's his legacy.

[ComradeKayAdams]

18 hours ago, Toesy said:

IMO Rodgers is the GOAT-other than drafting the guy, GB management has been pretty lousy his whole time there-it would bug anybody.

 

Why do people keep calling this guy the GOAT?! Brady beats this clown by a mile for that title. This isn't even a debatable topic.

[Watkins90]

5 minutes ago, Gugny said:

McCarthy was not a great Head Coach.

 

Rodgers may be the biggest douchebag in the history of the sport.

 

Tom Brady might scream, yell and throw stuff on the sidelines - but at the end of the day, he respects his teammates and his coaches.  That's what makes Brady, "Brady."  And Rodgers' lack of respect for anyone is what makes him, "Rodgers."

 

McCarthy didn't ruin Aaron Rodgers.   And I don't think Rodgers necessarily ruined McCarthy.  McCarthy allowed Rodgers to call the shots; he allowed Rodgers to disrespect and undermine him.  That's what ruined McCarthy's career.  

 

It's my opinion that the Packers' failures during Rodgers' tenure are mostly on Aaron Rodgers.  Of course ... he's scoff at the idea.  Because he's such a douche.  And I hope that's his legacy.

How can it be his fault, when the results on the field tell you it isn't. The guy went 15-1 with the 32nd ranked defense in the NFL. How could them losing that Wild Card be his fault when they scored 45 points in a wild-card game and lost. 

 

There is no way it is mostly on Aaron Rodgers. He gets a portion of the blame but without him, the Packers wouldn't have been nearly as successful. 

5 minutes ago, MichaelAbdallah said:

 

Why do people keep calling this guy the GOAT?! Brady beats this clown by a mile for that title. This isn't even a debatable topic.

You can be considered the greatest QB raw talent wise without being the best player in NFL history. IMO. 

[Gugny]

Just now, Watkins90 said:

How can it be his fault, when the results on the field tell you it isn't. The guy went 15-1 with the 32nd ranked defense in the NFL. How could them losing that Wild Card be his fault when they scored 45 points in a wild-card game and lost. 

 

There is no way it is mostly on Aaron Rodgers. He gets a portion of the blame but without him, the Packers wouldn't have been nearly as successful. 

 

I'm talking about the lack of Packers success during his tenure (as the starter).  The year they went 15-1, their defense was ranked 32 in yards; not total defense.  Let's not pretend that GB's defense has been horrible while Rodgers has been the starting QB.  It's not even close to the truth.  What is truthful is that he's had a lot of talent around him for most of his time in GB and - as a team - they have underachieved.

 

Individual stats-wise ... yes, Rodgers has been awesome.  First ballot HOF, hands down.

 

My opinion is that if he wasn't such a selfish, pompous, arrogant ***** - then the Packers would have won far more than one Super Bowl during his time as the starter.

[Watkins90]

3 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I'm talking about the lack of Packers success during his tenure (as the starter).  The year they went 15-1, their defense was ranked 32 in yards; not total defense.  Let's not pretend that GB's defense has been horrible while Rodgers has been the starting QB.  It's not even close to the truth.  What is truthful is that he's had a lot of talent around him for most of his time in GB and - as a team - they have underachieved.

 

Individual stats-wise ... yes, Rodgers has been awesome.  First ballot HOF, hands down.

 

My opinion is that if he wasn't such a selfish, pompous, arrogant ***** - then the Packers would have won far more than one Super Bowl during his time as the starter.

If the Packer's defense didn't implode every January then they would have won more than one SuperBowl. Dude, look at the results on the field. His arrogance has nothing to do with the defense being utter ***** when it mattered most. Do we not forget the absolute heroics this man has put on display to get his team wins in the Playoffs. If it wasn't for him, after the Packers defense blew a lead against the Seahawks in the 2015 NFC Championship game, it never would have gotten to overtime. He wasn't the one refusing to sign veteran players and letting other guys walk in favor of cheaper rookies like the front office was doing. 

 

Does the guy deserve some blame. Absolutely. But, the Packer's wouldn't even have been as successful as they were without Rodgers. 

[Gugny]

10 minutes ago, Watkins90 said:

If the Packer's defense didn't implode every January then they would have won more than one SuperBowl. Dude, look at the results on the field. His arrogance has nothing to do with the defense being utter ***** when it mattered most. Do we not forget the absolute heroics this man has put on display to get his team wins in the Playoffs. If it wasn't for him, after the Packers defense blew a lead against the Seahawks in the 2015 NFC Championship game, it never would have gotten to overtime. He wasn't the one refusing to sign veteran players and letting other guys walk in favor of cheaper rookies like the front office was doing. 

 

Does the guy deserve some blame. Absolutely. But, the Packer's wouldn't even have been as successful as they were without Rodgers. 

 

One Super Bowl is ridiculous after 11 years.  He's the common denominator.