Calling it now: Zay Jones will not be on the week 1 roster.

[badassgixxer05]

2 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

You mean like that time he cost us the Panthers game and the entire team tried to console him? There was plenty of reaction going on. Some on the sideline, and some in the locker room.

That was a dropped ball not a wrong route. He was wide open because he ran a good route. The team was behind him 100% after. Still not getting your point of him not running the right routes..

[BuffaloHokie13]

1 minute ago, badassgixxer05 said:

That was a dropped ball not a wrong route. He was wide open because he ran a good route. The team was behind him 100% after. Still not getting your point of him not running the right routes..

He was supposed to cut towards the back corner of the end zone and broke it flat instead (towards the front corner) which caused him to be out of position on what would have been a routine catch otherwise. It is one example of many throughout that season.

[badassgixxer05]

Just now, BuffaloHokie13 said:

He was supposed to cut towards the back corner of the end zone and broke it flat instead (towards the front corner) which caused him to be out of position on what would have been a routine catch otherwise. It is one example of many throughout that season.

But the ball wasnt thrown to the back corner of the end zone... ?

[Alphadawg7]

19 minutes ago, badassgixxer05 said:

That was a dropped ball not a wrong route. He was wide open because he ran a good route. The team was behind him 100% after. Still not getting your point of him not running the right routes..

 

No, it was a BAD, in fact VERY BAD route.  Your memory fails you on this one.

 

Zay stumbles his feet untouched on his cut and causes him to angle sharper to the sideline and turn to look for ball late.  Had he NOT done that, he walks in untouched for game winner.  But because of that, he made an easy routine catch on a wide open play into a stretched out attempt to save the play in which he failed to also make.  

 

This play was then and still is 100% on Zay.  TT critics wanted to ignore the indisputable video evidence and put it on him, but everything is right there on tape.  

 

I also think that one play was one that haunted him and led to his confidence issues and mental off field issue in the offseason.  He doesn't seem like a guy who can shake off a mistake.  And thats not a good quality to have if you are a WR given no WR ever catches 100% of the catchable balls thrown their way.  

[badassgixxer05]

4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

No, it was a BAD, in fact VERY BAD route.  Your memory fails you on this one.

 

Zay stumbles his feet untouched on his cut and causes him to angle sharper to the sideline and turn to look for ball late.  Had he NOT done that, he walks in untouched for game winner.  But because of that, he made an easy routine catch on a wide open play into a stretched out attempt to save the play in which he failed to also make.  

 

This play was then and still is 100% on Zay.  TT critics wanted to ignore the indisputable video evidence and put it on him, but everything is right there on tape.  

 

I also think that one play was one that haunted him and led to his confidence issues and mental off field issue in the offseason.  He doesn't seem like a guy who can shake off a mistake.  And thats not a good quality to have if you are a WR given no WR ever catches 100% of the catchable balls thrown their way.  

Maybe. My memory is pretty bad, because I remember this as last year, but it was indeed 2017. 2017 was a bad year for Zay I will agree. Which is why I think he grew a lot last year. Him even having an average year last year was growth(although i still think he was better then average). Here is to hoping Zay 3.0 shows up to camp and ready to roll. That would be best for everyone ?

[Punching Bag]

On 3/2/2019 at 8:58 PM, Augie said:

 

Why was he so incredibly productive as a senior, but such a mess as a rookie? I don’t that at all. 

 

My observation was that when he was promoted from assistant WR coach in mid-season for Phish it seemed detriment to WRs there. 

I commented that when he was hired he did not appear to be able to develop NFL level WRs, you got what skills they had when you hired him and basically he was there to make sure they did drills. 

Contrast that with Sanjay Lal where there are comments that from WRs from multiple teams, young and veterans, that he was always teaching them new techniques.  Sanjay however appears to be a butterfly and likes to switch teams whether to make new connections or just wants to live in different places I do not know and not heard any interviewer ask him this question but he has never been fired from a team.

[GoBills808]

Maybe but imo doubtful...not sure it's wise to get rid of your leading receiver on his rookie deal w/ no viable alternative behind him.

[dollars 2 donuts]

@Alphadawg7

 

Alpha, in light of possible recent events may I change my comment that Jones will be the Bills leading receiver in 2019?

 

[racketmaster]

I almost forgot that Jones was the wr targeted by Taylor at the end of the Carolina game. He does stumble at the top of his route and fails to make a catch that is made by wrs on a regular basis (not a routine catch but would not have been a wow catch either). He drops the 3rd and 10 pass along the sideline against Miami right before the final play (this was an even more egregious drop). So I'll add not being clutch to the list of complaints I have with Jones' play. Bills are clearly looking to upgrade the wr position and if Jones cannot excel on special teams he will most likely be the odd man out.

[34-78-83]

Zay improved quite a bit last season and will likely continue to. He'll be either the 2nd, 3rd or 4th WR and safely on the team. Progression is huge for NFL staffs to see in their draft picks. When they see it, especially in a player they drafted that high, they hold on to them. They certainly saw it from Zay last season. Barring a trade or injury Zay is a 100% lock to make the 2019 Roster.

[eball]

Good call Alpha. I was wrong. Highly unlikely Zay is around on W1. 

[Just Joshin']

2 minutes ago, eball said:

Good call Alpha. I was wrong. Highly unlikely Zay is around on W1. 

I also thought no way to lose Zay but not looking good.  Will wait until he is gone for the official mea culpa.

Edited March 12, 2019 by Just Joshin'

[BillsCuse]

Still don't see a reason to cut him.  He's on a low contract.  Even if he ends up as WR #4 or #5, keep him for depth

[racketmaster]

Signing Brown and Beasley to those contracts spell the end to Zays time in Buffalo. Hopefully, Beane can trade Zay for another player or at least a late round pick. 

[FeelingOnYouboty]

Zay Jones is starting

[SectionC3]

On 3/4/2019 at 12:01 PM, GunnerBill said:

 

To me Zay is not a fit in the slot in the offense Daboll wants to run. He wants shifty, quick change of direction types in there. Zay was rafted for a different offense by different coaches. Dennison and Kubiak have utilised "big slot" types to good effect in their offenses. Daboll less so.

 

EDIT: Not saying Zay won't make the team..... I don't think he is a lock though..... and if he makes it I suspect it is outside not in the slot on this offense.

This.  Daboll wants quickness and speed in the slot.  We saw that last year after the bye.  I think Zay is in trouble, but I don’t see why they wouldn’t bring him to camp.  

 

Based on the collection of WRs, I wonder if DiMarco/TE3 might be in trouble.  I realize that the plan is to be flexible on the offensive side of the ball, but stacking speed in the slot works well for Allen.  Might not need to go four deep with that type of player. 

[John from Riverside]

I am not auto going to say Zay is not on this team with our new signings.....

 

I WILL say the honeymoon is over for Zay Jones.....and balls that hit him right in the hands and dropped will no longer be tolerated.......

 

What has really happened here is that while there is no identified number one.....the quality of the WR's from 1 through 5 have GREATLY improved.......

 

John Brown and Robert Foster on the outside.....insane speed

Slot guys Beasely/Zay/McKenzie

This does not factor in Duke (because we dont know what we have there) from the CFL.....and it does not factor if one of those 10 picks is used on another WR from the draft

 

What the stable does have are proven veteran guys......and a player in Robert Foster with IMMENSE upside

[Real McClappy]

It's way, way to early to give on on Zay Jones. He's producing on a WR#2 level in his first couple seasons and building with Josh as we all witnessed as the season went on. 

 

Trading Zay would honestly be stupid.

[oldmanfan]

And I still say Jones catches a TD pass week one.  Now, it is possible he gets traded for something.  But released outright, no way. 

[racketmaster]

1 minute ago, Real McCoy said:

It's way, way to early to give on on Zay Jones. He's producing on a WR#2 level in his first couple seasons and building with Josh as we all witnessed as the season went on. 

 

Trading Zay would honestly be stupid.

Zay was dreadful as a rookie and just below average last year. Only reason why he has been on the field so much is that the wr position was gutted before he arrived and he was a high draft pick of this regime. Man would have been cut as a rookie if he was a lower pick or drafted by previous regime. Unless he suddenly starts running faster, becomes quicker and develops stronger hands then he will not play over Foster, Brown and Beasley. At best it puts him at 4 but Williams offers the size and physicality the Bills need at the position and no other wr on the roster offers that. Zay is the #5 and has not been a special team performer. If we can get anything of value back, he needs to be traded now before he is released in September. 

[Big Gun]

The only way he isnt on the team is if they trade him, he does have value, I don't see that and I can't see them cutting him outright, he's cheap.

 

He'll be lining up on opening day.

[racketmaster]

I forgot to add that Beasley wears #11 so that gives the Bills another reason to move on from Jones. Lol 

[C.Biscuit97]

Not a Zay fan (wanted JuJu).  But there is no point in cutting him now. He has basically no trade value so you let him compete for a job.  Maybe the light comes on in year 3.  But it’s better to have too many receivers than not enough.

 

and if they get rid of him after year 2 after trading up for him, that’s a horrific move. For their own egos, they will keep him.

[Alphadawg7]

34 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

And I still say Jones catches a TD pass week one.  Now, it is possible he gets traded for something.  But released outright, no way. 

 

Not sure why people keep bringing up "released" or "cut".  Said in my Original Post I thought he would be TRADED and said it many times over in this thread.  Never said Zay had no value and would be just outright cut.  If Beane can't find a trade partner, I think they would keep him as a 4th or 5th WR still over cutting him.  

Edited March 12, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[oldmanfan]

20 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Not sure why people keep bringing up "released" or "cut".  Said in my Original Post I thought he would be TRADED and said it many times over in this thread.  Never said Zay had no value and would be just outright cut.  If Beane can't find a trade partner, I think they would keep him as a 4th or 5th WR still over cutting him.  

Yep, missed that.  My bad.

[FeelingOnYouboty]

He was our best WR last year. He's going into his 3rd year. There's no reason to cut him. I think he takes a leap next year.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

Zay Jones is starting

 

Of course, as always:

 

11 minutes ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

He was our best WR last year. He's going into his 3rd year. There's no reason to cut him. I think he takes a leap next year.

 

 

Only if that window breaks this time...

[Alphadawg7]

12 minutes ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

He was our best WR last year. He's going into his 3rd year. There's no reason to cut him. I think he takes a leap next year.

 

He was outplayed by Foster.  

[FeelingOnYouboty]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

He was outplayed by Foster.  

 

Foster came on late but he was not. Jones was reliable all year while Foster got cut during the season. I'm happy we have both and they'll be a big part of our growth going forward.

[Alphadawg7]

35 minutes ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

 

Foster came on late but he was not. Jones was reliable all year while Foster got cut during the season. I'm happy we have both and they'll be a big part of our growth going forward.

 

Reliable all year?  He had 56 catches as a full time starter.  He had a bad catch rate, he bobbled many of the catches he did make, he failed to consistently get open, and made most of his production on broken plays where Allen had to scramble.  And thats because he wasn't getting open on his actual route often enough.  He was also man handled by physical corners, and is terrible against press coverage.  

 

Zay is literally the definition of unreliable last year. 

 

Food for thought:  

Foster, three 100 yard games in his 7 games.  Zay, zero 100 yard games in his 30 game career.  In fact, Zay has had less than 40 yards in 22 of his 30 games, including 10 in 2018 alone.  

 

You have an interesting definition of "reliable".

Edited March 12, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[Alphadawg7]

Posted this in the other thread...

 

Does everyone realize that the "Year 3 breakout" for WR's has been debunked many times?  There is no year 3 breakout, in fact WR's are slightly more likely to break out in Year 1 or Year 2 rather than Year 3.  And if you combine Years 1 and 2 together versus year 3, they are 65% more likely to break out sometime during the first 2 yeas than they are in year 3.

 

This is some fan and media myth that still lives on for some reason.  So everyone banking on Zay breaking out just because its his "3rd year" are not realizing there is no statistics that make his breakout in year 3 anymore likely than years 1 or 2.  In fact, its slightly less likely than it would have been in year 2.  

 

Doesnt mean he cant, just saying the likelihood of it is not enhanced just because of the Year 3 myth about WRs

[Real McClappy]

15 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Posted this in the other thread...

 

Does everyone realize that the "Year 3 breakout" for WR's has been debunked many times?  There is no year 3 breakout, in fact WR's are slightly more likely to break out in Year 1 or Year 2 rather than Year 3.  And if you combine Years 1 and 2 together versus year 3, they are 65% more likely to break out sometime during the first 2 yeas than they are in year 3.

 

This is some fan and media myth that still lives on for some reason.  So everyone banking on Zay breaking out just because its his "3rd year" are not realizing there is no statistics that make his breakout in year 3 anymore likely than years 1 or 2.  In fact, its slightly less likely than it would have been in year 2.  

 

Doesnt mean he cant, just saying the likelihood of it is not enhanced just because of the Year 3 myth about WRs

Agreed if with 1 QB. I think Zay has played under 4 QB's now in 2 years now? Give him one more year with Allen and see how it goes.

[billsfan_34]

- Zay improved from year 1

- Zay is still on his rookie deal

- Zay adds depth

- Zay had pretty good Chemistry with JA

- Zay was drafted in the second rd by the current regime

IMO Zay isn’t going anywhere

[Clyde Smith]

Nah! I think he stays. 

[Jay_Fixit]

3 hours ago, eball said:

Good call Alpha. I was wrong. Highly unlikely Zay is around on W1. 

You two will both be incorrect.

[Alphadawg7]

21 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

Agreed if with 1 QB. I think Zay has played under 4 QB's now in 2 years now? Give him one more year with Allen and see how it goes.

 

I wasn't saying Zay cant, I was stating that the "Year 3" factor has been mentioned many times in several threads and that the "Year 3" theory on WR's has been debunked many times.  

 

So the point was, any WR going into their 3rd year does NOT have a higher chance of breaking out just because its their 3rd year.  That "3 year" WR theory has been debunked many times.  

[BillsFan130]

3 hours ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

Zay Jones is starting

For which team?

[Alphadawg7]

2 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

You two will both be incorrect.

 

Hey, we very well may be incorrect.  This was never some arrogant guarantee, just my gut feeling based on what McD and Beane have consistently said and based on how many new WR's I expected them to bring in.  So far, they have brought in 3 and are very likely to bring in at least one prominent rookie.  

 

And now, looking at the WR room, I would put Zay already 4th on the depth chart today behind Foster, Brown, and Cole.  Not to mention Duke can still challenge to start or at least for relevant playing time too.  Then you still have McKenzie.  

 

Now add a rookie into the mix, and where does Zay fit so "easily"?  Cole Beasley just took his slot job.  That means Zay now has to complete to start as WR1 or WR2 or he will be a bench and rotational guy.  Brown wasn't signed to sit behind everyone, so he is at least penciled into one of those 2 spots.  Foster already passed Zay in most peoples eyes, and then you will have Duke and a rookie pushing those guys too.  

 

Zay may end up on this roster, but its FAR from a lock.  Slot is gone, Cole is the 100% for sure slot WR this year.  He we have 4 WRs who will challenge for the top 2 WR spots already...Foster, Brown, Zay, Duke plus a 5th one likely to get into the mix from the draft.  Not sure why anyone has great optimism that Zay will beat 3 or 4 other WR's to secure a starting spot. 

 

He will likely be given the chance to, but he hasn't done well in pressure situations prior to this.  And if he doesn't beat out those guys for a starting spot, I think he will be traded for something like a 5th round pick to get some value before spending a season on the bench diminishes all trade value.  

[Patrick Duffy]

2 hours ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

 

Foster came on late but he was not. Jones was reliable all year while Foster got cut during the season. I'm happy we have both and they'll be a big part of our growth going forward.

LOL.If that's your definition of reliable then I would definitely have to disagree.

[Nitro]

Zay Jones will garner interest just after the draft.  He can be moved for a future late round draft pick.