BigDingus Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) When talking about the GOAT conversation in North American sports on PTI, they discussed Brady & now comparing him to Jordan. Then they had this exchange that made me think Kornheiser is an idiot, watch the full exchange here - Kornheiser: "You know, I'm not saying he's better, I'm saying they are shoulder to shoulder in the annals of history. Wilbon: "Yeah, and they were shoulder to shoulder already." Kornheiser: "I don't know that, I don't know that.....If they had lost this to go 5 & 4, I don't know. 6 is magic." Uh what? What makes six championships in the NFL more "magic" than five? Five had NEVER been done before by any QB, so you're telling me not only did Brady matching Joe Montana & Terry Bradshaw in the era of Free Agency not qualify, but being the first & likely only QB to ever win 5 Super Bowls, as well as having played in 8 up until that point not convince you? He had to win six...IN THE NFL...to be adequately comparable to Jordan? Why? Jordan is a legend, yes. But even if he is the GOAT, 6 rings isn't the pinnacle of his sport and isn't what cemented him as the GOAT, so why does the number 6 for championships translate to a magic number? Kareem had 6, several more have 7-10, and Bill Russell has freaking 11, so why isn't 11 the "magic number?" I mean it's just as arbitrary as 6 when applied to the NFL, so I think it's pretty stupid to say Brady's 5 before last night wasn't enough to already say he's shoulder to shoulder. Jim Kelly was a first ballot HOFer losing 4. Marino was as well losing his only 1. Favre went 1-1. Elway & Manning combined went 4-5! Brady having himself gone 5-3 up through last night, or even 5-4 had they lost, in a league where only 1 QB has ever even just PLAYED in Super Bowls let alone WIN 5, you're telling me Brady still had to win another one to qualify? Why didn't Jordan have to win 11 to qualify? Because he was so dominant anyway in the regular season & post season. In one generation, Brady & Belichick have brought the Pats from 0 Super Bowls to tying the Steelers for most all time with 6. Other historic franchises like the Packers, Cowboys, 49ers, Giants, etc. have all been surpassed by just 1 generation of QB+HC. That's insane. Tom Brady will hit #2 all time in passing yards if he plays another full season next year (he's #4 now, only 1,400+ yards from #2 behind Brees), only needs 22 TD's to pass Peyton Manning for #1 all time (though he's 3 TD's behind Brees right now), is the winningest postseason QB of all time, has the most Superbowl MVP's of all time, has 3 regular season MVPs, and countless other records that shouldn't NEED a 6th Super Bowl win to be "shoulder to shoulder" with Jordan in NA sports. I hate the guy and can't wait until he finally friggin retires. But I know I'll never see something like this in my lifetime ever again and have to respect that. In the NFL, doing what he's done puts him shoulder to shoulder with Jordan easily, and that was before winning a 6th ring. People are willing to argue Lebron is shoulder to shoulder with Jordan, and even better than Jordan, and he only has 3 rings out of 9 trips! So how the hell is 6 the magic number for FOOTBALL, but 3 is ok for basketball? I dunno why I felt the need to rant about this, but man that argument was so stupid. I'll be THRILLED if the Bills have a QB that leads us to one Superbowl win....I can only imagine how it would feel to go 9 times and win 6. Edited February 5, 2019 by BigDingus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billzgobowlin Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 I don't think Brady and Jordan should be mentioned in the same category. Jordan won 6 championships in 6 years playing. He was the top of the game for those 6 years. Brady only had about 3 years where he was the top of the game and one of those years his team (18-0 year) they lost the championship. Brady might have been the best player on the team for most of those years but definitely not the best player in the league. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 It's not a great comparison, anyway, since the NBA and NFL are about as different as two leagues can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) He isnt Shoulder to shoulder with Jordan. He isnt even the greatest in his own sport. Now Belichick to Phil Jackson is a great discussion and not so easy to make a call. Edited February 5, 2019 by formerlyofCtown 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 One team relies on 5 to 8 or so players. The other relies on so, so many more. It is a lot easier to be dominant in basketball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Gugny said: It's not a great comparison, anyway, since the NBA and NFL are about as different as two leagues can get. ....and typical Tony Baloney.....hard to believe he was on MNF............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Brady is about as athletic as Fat Albert, it would be like comparing Jack Nicklaus to Jordan. Stupid comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 7 hours ago, BigDingus said: I hate the guy and can't wait until he finally friggin retires. Because someone has a difference of opinion with you you hate? It's great to be always right I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsbackto81 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 4 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said: He isnt Shoulder to shoulder with Jordan. He isnt even the greatest in his own sport. Now Belichick to Phil Jackson is a great discussion and not so easy to make a call. I don't even think you can go there with Bill and Phil. Jackson had Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Kobe, Shaq... All Hall of Fame. Belicheck had Brady and..................? As much as I hate him Bill is the superior of the two......IMO of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 talking about Jordan now is as pointless as when oldsters talked about Bob Cousy during the Magic/Bird era.... 2 hours ago, Binghamton Beast said: One team relies on 5 to 8 or so players. The other relies on so, so many more. It is a lot easier to be dominant in basketball. Jordan won with 6 basically by himself and 2/3 of a star in Pippen, wished they would have manned up during the Magic/Bird Era, or at least beaten that Detroit team with half the talent of prior champs.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Jordan, Gretzky, Brady, Woods, Ruth... You can argue if they're the GOAT, but it doesn't matter. In the end, they're just THE NAME everyone knows. The GNOAT. Soft G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 1 hour ago, billsbackto81 said: I don't even think you can go there with Bill and Phil. Jackson had Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Kobe, Shaq... All Hall of Fame. Belicheck had Brady and..................? As much as I hate him Bill is the superior of the two......IMO of course. Gronk, Moss Welker, Bruschi... He had plenti. But I dont necessary disagree. The only player Belichick has had thats the GOAT as his position was Gronk. Maybe Viniteri. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetermansRedemption Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 It is SO much more difficult, as a superstar, to dominate a sport where 11 men are on the field compared to 5. I would argue the easiest sport to create a dynasty would be the NBA. In no other sport can your star play so often, with so few opponents on the court or field. One dominate player can run a dynasty in the NBA relatively easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Sack Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 If you get to the Super Bowl 9 times with the same coach chances are play for an elite organization. Belichick even found a way to get to 11 wins with Matt Cassel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 53 minutes ago, LeGOATski said: Jordan, Gretzky, Brady, Woods, Ruth... You can argue if they're the GOAT, but it doesn't matter. In the end, they're just THE NAME everyone knows. The GNOAT. Soft G. LaGNOATski? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark80 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 6 hours ago, Billzgobowlin said: I don't think Brady and Jordan should be mentioned in the same category. Jordan won 6 championships in 6 years playing. He was the top of the game for those 6 years. Brady only had about 3 years where he was the top of the game and one of those years his team (18-0 year) they lost the championship. Brady might have been the best player on the team for most of those years but definitely not the best player in the league. This is not quite true. Jordan came back the year before his second three peat during the middle of the season and they lost in the playoffs with him that year. Granted, he wasn't quite himself yet, but it was technically 6 in 7 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) I don't think there's any real merit to it, but it's something that talking heads will bring up. The number of titles in football is vastly different than the number of titles in basketball as has been pointed out. I do think it's something people will naturally discuss as MJ is widely considered the greatest athlete of all time(debatable I'm aware). The fact that they both have six titles is naturally going to get attention. This is pretty much what they do on PTI. Meh. Edited February 5, 2019 by LSHMEAB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 4 hours ago, Binghamton Beast said: One team relies on 5 to 8 or so players. The other relies on so, so many more. It is a lot easier to be dominant in basketball. This. Numerous players throughout NBA history have won 5 or more titles. Many of the actual super star players too, not just role players who jumped around from winning team to winning team like Robert Horry. In the NFL you have two players Tom Brady and Charles Haley. Haley obviously falling more under the category of the Robert Horry type. Winning 5+ titles in the NFL or playing in 6+ super bowls is a far greater achievement. You just aren't supposed to do that in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 12 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said: This. Numerous players throughout NBA history have won 5 or more titles. Many of the actual super star players too, not just role players who jumped around from winning team to winning team like Robert Horry. In the NFL you have two players Tom Brady and Charles Haley. Haley obviously falling more under the category of the Robert Horry type. Winning 5+ titles in the NFL or playing in 6+ super bowls is a far greater achievement. You just aren't supposed to do that in the NFL. Charles was a devastatingly important part of most of those 5 titles, maybe his 5th he wasn't in top form. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 9 minutes ago, row_33 said: Charles was a devastatingly important part of most of those 5 titles, maybe his 5th he wasn't in top form. Yeah saying he was Horry is slighting him too much. But he's not at the Duncan, Magic, Kobe, Jordan, Russell level either. Somewhere between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 6 hours ago, Billzgobowlin said: I don't think Brady and Jordan should be mentioned in the same category. Jordan won 6 championships in 6 years playing. He was the top of the game for those 6 years. Brady only had about 3 years where he was the top of the game and one of those years his team (18-0 year) they lost the championship. Brady might have been the best player on the team for most of those years but definitely not the best player in the league. Laughable. Jordan was done by 34. Brady is 41. In a sport with 10 other teammates he has dominated for nearly 20 years. 1/2 of the time he ends up in the Championship Game, 1/3 of the time he wins, 3/4 he’s playing for his conference title. And his Playoff resume dwarfs everyone at all other positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsbackto81 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, formerlyofCtown said: Gronk, Moss Welker, Bruschi... He had plenti. But I dont necessary disagree. The only player Belichick has had thats the GOAT as his position was Gronk. Maybe Viniteri. Gronk maybe HOF but he wasn't the GOAT at his position. Moss was as much a Patriot as Farve was a Jet. Welker was a product of the QB and he proved that in Denver. Bruschi probably would qualify for the Hall of Pretty Good. Viniteri I believe will make it one day though they usually dismiss special teams. Plus... I'm a Knicks fan and despise Phil Jackson with all my being. Edited February 5, 2019 by billsbackto81 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Basketball and football are both team games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Dumb analogy. First and foremost, no one is out there asking if it was MJ or Phil Jackson.... i think the discussion can end right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Success said: Basketball and football are both team games. one man can dominate hoops a man invented the bogus Triangle O which meant dicking around until you got the ball to Michael or Kobe or Shaq and then they singlehandedly worked to get the basket the Triangle failed miserably when it revolved around Kwame or Eddy Curry or Frankie Smokes Edited February 5, 2019 by row_33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) 38 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said: Gronk maybe HOF but he wasn't the GOAT at his position. Moss was as much a Patriot as Farve was a Jet. Welker was a product of the QB and he proved that in Denver. Bruschi probably would qualify for the Hall of Pretty Good. Viniteri I believe will make it one day though they usually dismiss special teams. Plus... I'm a Knicks fan a despise Phil Jackson with all my being. Oh so Jackson had all these guy their whole careers. I really didnt think that was the case. I thought Rodman came from a team other than the bulls. ? As to your last statement. You need to learn to be more objective. You need to realise their are alot of players on an NFL team that contribute. There are only so many touches to go around. As for Gronk, tell me who is and justify it dont just give a name. Also remember TE is not WR so you can forget Gonzales and Graham. Edited February 5, 2019 by formerlyofCtown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsbackto81 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 9 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said: Oh so Jackson had all these guy their whole careers. I really didnt think that was the case. I thought Rodman came from a team other than the bulls. ? As to your last statement. You need to learn to be more objective. You need to realise their are alot of players on an NFL team that contribute. There are only so many touches to go around. As for Gronk, tell me who is and justify it dont just give a name. Also remember TE is not WR so you can forget Gonzales and Graham. Are we debating coaches or players? I'm saying Belicheck was a far better coach than Jackson. As far as TEs go. http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap3000000816049/gil-brandt's-14-greatest-nfl-tight-ends-of-all-time Maybe you'll agree with someone who knows a little more about football than me and you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 4 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said: Brady is about as athletic as Fat Albert, it would be like comparing Jack Nicklaus to Jordan. Stupid comparison. You do realize he was drafted out of HS into the MLB right? he may not look like your typical athlete... but after all he’s done... he’s obviously a phenomenal athlete ... tremendously gifted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMIEBUF12 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 But remember I think Yogi Berra has like 8 rings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsfaninChicago Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Man these “hot takes” are getting dumber and dumber. I suppose he is going to need 16 titles to compare shoulder to shoulder with John Cena then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Brady is still winning championships at his age , Jordan was not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 4 hours ago, billsbackto81 said: I don't even think you can go there with Bill and Phil. Jackson had Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Kobe, Shaq... All Hall of Fame. Belicheck had Brady and..................? As much as I hate him Bill is the superior of the two......IMO of course. HoFers Gronk and Edelman. Ty Law. Etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 1 hour ago, billsbackto81 said: Are we debating coaches or players? I'm saying Belicheck was a far better coach than Jackson. As far as TEs go. http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap3000000816049/gil-brandt's-14-greatest-nfl-tight-ends-of-all-time Maybe you'll agree with someone who knows a little more about football than me and you. You'll have to forgive me for thinking for myself and not bowing before a washed up has been. Tony Gonzalez was the best pass catching TE. Not the best all around TE. Now we are the ones having the convo her and all you did was give a name and some elses opinion. Im not debating Brandt Im talking to you. Judging by his list he is overly impressed with the recieving stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodneykm Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 I honestly think he wants 7. If he gets that, its nearly impossible to dispute that he's not only the best to play in the NFL but that he's the best to play a sport period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibum Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 This is a Bills forum. Why do we have to ride Brady’s jock in here? I’m sure there’s a few hundred Pats forums you could bring this to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Jordan played offense and defense Jordan was not carried by his team to any titles. Jordan took time off in the middle of his dominant career Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) whatever How many suspensions did MJ get for cheating? Edited February 5, 2019 by reddogblitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plano Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 No JORDAN never lost a championship. Brady lost multiple. /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsbackto81 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 13 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: whatever How many suspensions did MJ get for cheating? Zero! Which BTW is how many championships he's lost.. Case closed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsbackto81 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 1 hour ago, BringBackOrton said: HoFers Gronk and Edelman. Ty Law. Etc. Gronk- Eventually Law- Borderline Edelman- No way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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