Bills have released Kelvin Benjamin and Andre Holmes

[Gray Beard]

4 hours ago, klos63 said:

They corrected a mistake that cost them a 3rd round pick. Not sure this means they are ok. Yeah, they fixed a mistake, but it was a costly one.

Fixing a mistake is better than living in denial.  

Not the best case scenario, but at least they realize their mistake. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 hour ago, eball said:

 

Wow -- that is incredibly unlucky for Sammy.  Makes you wonder if his body type isn't suited to the rigors of the NFL.  Some guys just can't stay healthy.

 

.......look at your foot.......was reading that each one is comprised of 26 bones......pretty remarkable stuff......could see how ongoing issues could linger....

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I love watching McDermott and Beane operate.   They have no fear.   In particular, they have no fear of mistakes.   They make decisions, like acquiring Benjamin, and they are not afraid to admit that it didn't work.  

 

I also love how they don't waste time.   They want a young team, they want to build through the draft.   They don't want old players around unless they are really, really good players or leaders.   If you're old and not a leader or a star, you're occupying space that, in McBeane's mind, is better occupied by a young guy.   Get the old guy out of here NOW, so we can get a young guy in and see what he can do.  

 

They're going to keep changing the mix of players every chance they get.  As they've said many times, they're all about getting better at every position, all the time.  

 

McBeane's mindset changed when the game ended Sunday.   The Bills have four preseason games left in 2018.   These games are the opportunity to see and evaluate players, and the Bills have seen and evaluated Benjamin and Holmes as much as they needed.  

I think this is pretty important.....they did make mistakes along the way but did not hold onto them for a fear of ppl thinking they make mistakes.   Some HC and GM's get stubborn on this.

 

They also have hit on players.

[Augie]

1 hour ago, BurpleBull said:

No more of Benjamin stealing Zay's targets.

 

 

 

....and lowering Josh’s completion %. 

 

It’s probably a relief to Zay that he only has to get himself lined up in the right place for a change. 

 

 

. 

Edited December 5, 2018 by Augie

[Fan in Chicago]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

It's a different foot, however, and it looks like Watkins' season is pretty much toast (although he may be a spot player in the last couple of games; who knows). The issue might actually be that he has chronic, congenital foot problems, which might explain why teams like LA and Buffalo didn't try to retain him. There's a ton of medical info we are not privy too. 

If it is a chronic problem, how did the Chiefs medical staff not catch it? Seems strange that they would sign him to a rich contract knowing the foot (feet?) problems would hinder his continued availability 

[Coach Tuesday]

59 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Don't you think that should be a larger part of the discussion? 

 

Do you think it's a coincidence that two franchises whose medical staffs had an intimate view of Watkins health declined to commit to him for the long term?

 

The Rams tried "aggressively" to re-sign him dude.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

NOW who is Zay's mother going to critique?!  ?

[YoloinOhio]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000996359/article/mcdermott-on-cutting-kelvin-benjamin-it-didnt-work-for-us

We stepped up to the plate and you take a swing," McDermott said. "Some of those are going work and some aren't, but the only way you get a hit is you take a swing. 

"And just as important for us, I believe, is when things are no longer right for us as our football team and where we are, the vision we're trying to chase, that we move forward and that's what we did."

 

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000996359/article/mcdermott-on-cutting-kelvin-benjamin-it-didnt-work-for-us

 

 

 

Christ, it's even worse than everyone thought. McDermott doesn't even know what sport the Bills play. What a disaster. Fire everybody.

[Jay_Fixit]

Baseball analogies.

 

You gotta love sports.

Edited December 5, 2018 by Jay_Fixit

[klos63]

9 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000996359/article/mcdermott-on-cutting-kelvin-benjamin-it-didnt-work-for-us

We stepped up to the plate and you take a swing," McDermott said. "Some of those are going work and some aren't, but the only way you get a hit is you take a swing. 

 

 

We stepped up to the line of scrimmage and threw some passes.... I hate mixing sports analogies.

[GG]

12 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

The Rams tried "aggressively" to re-sign him dude.

 

Of course they did, and are probably happy they didn't win the bidding war that they never really participated in.

[GoBills808]

6 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

Baseball analogies.

 

You gotta love sports.

Get your own jokes dude.

[Jay_Fixit]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Get your own jokes dude.

Oh ya? How about you get your own sandwich?

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

24 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

If it is a chronic problem, how did the Chiefs medical staff not catch it? Seems strange that they would sign him to a rich contract knowing the foot (feet?) problems would hinder his continued availability 

 

I love him as a player - but i think its a chronic pain tolerance issue.  

[gr8billsfan]

Some people are upset. KB runs slower than a fat chick in PE class. 

[ctk232]

21 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well OK then but who are we putting on the field?

Speed and youth: Zay, Foster, McKenzie, and Ray Ray...Thompson doesn't so much fit the youth movement much, but I hope his hands come back once he gets more rapport with Allen. 

 

Don't we typically use max 3 WR personnel packages with Clay as the 4th WR/TE? 

 

I also bet the plan is to really evaluate Zay's potential within the corps, although many of us are of the opinion he's a stout slot WR or WR2 ceiling, they may want to see how he performs more as the WR1 in certain route schemes. Just not sure what we plan to do for size...which is most useful in the red zone and third downs

[Jerome007]

21 hours ago, Buddo said:

Slightly surprising due to timing, but I don't think either of them were going to be here long term. (Or after the season)

I wasn't surprised by the timing, at all. I mean how many times have we seen KB simply jogging without a care out there?

 

But I became surprised when I realized by the article all his money is guaranteed. He's still to be paid about 2.1 millions to be on vacation!

 

BTW I thought it was a nice gamble by the Bills brass. It made sense. KB is to blame. Big time. Hell, he showed zero motivation in his contract year! No one can expect that. Who will hire his guy if it's not at vet minimum?

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, LABillzFan said:

 

You see, this is what's frustrating about reading your posts. You're qualifying other posts as something they're not to make a point that has no value.

 

Case in point...you respond to Shaw directly when you refer to fans who consider management as "untouchable" and above criticism, and yet he only last night admitted problems with McDermott, including...

 

 

They're not untouchable. There are things to criticize for a new coach and GM...even an old coach and GM. But again, you choose down side almost exclusively, and pretty much everyone else chooses up side, which bothers you for some reason to the extent that you misrepresent what others are trying to say.

 

We get it. You hate management. You're very clear about it. No need to misrepresent those who don't sing your lone note with you.

See, you just did the same thing you accused me of.  I’m constantly praising their defensive player evaluation yet you try to make it like I just trash everything they do.  That’s not true at all.  But my problem is that we have a defensive head coach who is running this franchise.  And if you look at their offensive player evaluation, they have missed far more than they have hit.

 

there was not one good thing about the KB move.  They had him in Carolina. He was fat and got worse every year he was there (and the Panthers played better without him).  So they traded 2 picks for him?  His whole time here was embarrassing but what makes it worse is they should have known it because they had him before.  

 

SM knows defense but please keep him away from the offense.  

48 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I think this is pretty important.....they did make mistakes along the way but did not hold onto them for a fear of ppl thinking they make mistakes.   Some HC and GM's get stubborn on this.

 

They also have hit on players.

The counter is they held on clear mistakes like Peterman and Benjamin longer than they should. 

[transplantbillsfan]

43 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000996359/article/mcdermott-on-cutting-kelvin-benjamin-it-didnt-work-for-us

 

 

 

 

37 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Christ, it's even worse than everyone thought. McDermott doesn't even know what sport the Bills play. What a disaster. Fire everybody.

[BringBackOrton]

10 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

See, you just did the same thing you accused me of.  I’m constantly praising their defensive player evaluation yet you try to make it like I just trash everything they do.  That’s not true at all.  But my problem is that we have a defensive head coach who is running this franchise.  And if you look at their offensive player evaluation, they have missed far more than they have hit.

 

there was not one good thing about the KB move.  They had him in Carolina. He was fat and got worse every year he was there (and the Panthers played better without him).  So they traded 2 picks for him?  His whole time here was embarrassing but what makes it worse is they should have known it because they had him before.  

 

SM knows defense but please keep him away from the offense.  

The counter is they held on clear mistakes like Peterman and Benjamin longer than they should. 

If they hit on Allen, WGAF if they missed on KB and Coleman?

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

See, you just did the same thing you accused me of.  I’m constantly praising their defensive player evaluation yet you try to make it like I just trash everything they do.  That’s not true at all.  But my problem is that we have a defensive head coach who is running this franchise.  And if you look at their offensive player evaluation, they have missed far more than they have hit.

 

there was not one good thing about the KB move.  They had him in Carolina. He was fat and got worse every year he was there (and the Panthers played better without him).  So they traded 2 picks for him?  His whole time here was embarrassing but what makes it worse is they should have known it because they had him before.  

 

SM knows defense but please keep him away from the offense.  

The counter is they held on clear mistakes like Peterman and Benjamin longer than they should. 

On Peterman.......you have to factor in the injuries that happened at the time as well..   Peterman was just drafted last year and played well in pre season so he was going to be on the roster at the start of this year.....then he had to play and looked terrible....but then we took on injuries........I mean on of these guys is STILL not out of concussion protocal.

 

On KB......the guy has had a 1000 yard season and was a high draft pick.......our wr core is a disaster and we didnt have the cap to go after players this year......it made sense to hold onto him and see if he could turn it around as Josh Allen became more aclimated to the NFL......finally they cut him loose but they DID cut him loose.   The situation with KB is bizaaare because he SHOULD be better then he is because he HAS been better then he is in the past......but it is what it is.

[Magox]

It's like we are living in 2 alternative realities. 

 

You have the delusional Bills fans who believe that Sammy Watkins "Potential" is his actual worth, believing he is some sort of 90 receptions 1400 yard 12 TD per year receiver who deserves to be paid $17 million a year.

 

Then there are the Bills fans who actually are living in the real world and see a guy who has had a lousy attitude, often-injured and has averaged 50 receptions, 700 yards receiving and 6 TD's per year throughout his career who think that you'd have to be a complete moron to believe that the Bills should have paid him elite WR money.

 

 

[BringBackOrton]

7 minutes ago, Magox said:

It's like we are living in 2 alternative realities. 

 

You have the delusional Bills fans who believe that Sammy Watkins "Potential" is his actual worth, believing he is some sort of 90 receptions 1400 yard 12 TD per year receiver who deserves to be paid $17 million a year.

 

Then there are the Bills fans who actually are living in the real world and see a guy who has had a lousy attitude, often-injured and has averaged 50 receptions, 700 yards receiving and 6 TD's per year throughout his career who think that you'd have to be a complete moron to believe that the Bills should have paid him elite WR money.

 

 

We could have not paid Sammy elite money and had him on the roster this year. We then wouldn’t have had to cut his replacement.

[Misterbluesky]

21 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

  Isaih overall better player but has fumble issues/

3 in 15 nfl games,that's a problem.

[BurpleBull]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

....and lowering Josh’s completion %. 

 

It’s probably a relief to Zay that he only has to get himself lined up in the right place for a change. 

 

 

. 

 

...or blocking Ray-Ray's sunrays.

 

He was enjoying the Miami sun until Benjamin decided to check himself out of the game for a play, and stand directly in front of him on the sideline.

[Kelly the Dog]

28 minutes ago, Magox said:

It's like we are living in 2 alternative realities. 

 

You have the delusional Bills fans who believe that Sammy Watkins "Potential" is his actual worth, believing he is some sort of 90 receptions 1400 yard 12 TD per year receiver who deserves to be paid $17 million a year.

 

Then there are the Bills fans who actually are living in the real world and see a guy who has had a lousy attitude, often-injured and has averaged 50 receptions, 700 yards receiving and 6 TD's per year throughout his career who think that you'd have to be a complete moron to believe that the Bills should have paid him elite WR money.

 

 

The "real world" is Andy Reid is one of the top football minds in the world and decided to pay Sammy Watkins just under 17m a year and you're one of the top three football minds on your couch.

[SWATeam]

9 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

The "real world" is Andy Reid is one of the top football minds in the world and decided to pay Sammy Watkins just under 17m a year and you're one of the top three football minds on your couch.

And Sean McVay didn't...  Is he not a top football mind?

 

I hate this type of lazy logic.  It's like praising every move the Patriots make, because, they're the Patriots.

Edited December 5, 2018 by SWATeam

[Magox]

16 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

The "real world" is Andy Reid is one of the top football minds in the world and decided to pay Sammy Watkins just under 17m a year and you're one of the top three football minds on your couch.

The real world is we are the Buffalo Bills and our situation isn't anywhere near the same.

 

 

Not to mention that they are paying $17 million a year for him to be somewhere around 750 yards receiving by the end of year when he just came off a sub 600 yard season.

 

That's the real world

Edited December 5, 2018 by Magox

[Kelly the Dog]

17 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

And Sean McVay didn't...  Is he not a top football mind?

 

I hate this type of lazy logic.  It's like praising every move the Patriots make, because, they're the Patriots.

McVay wanted him. They made an offer. He came out publicly and said several teams were throwing out crazy numbers and they weren't likely to match them.  

12 minutes ago, Magox said:

The real world is we are the Buffalo Bills and our situation isn't anywhere near the same.

 

 

Not to mention that they are paying $17 million a year for him to be somewhere around 750 yards receiving by the end of year when he just came off a sub 600 yard season.

 

That's the real world

I guarantee that McVay was very happy with him last year and that Andy Reid was very happy with him this year, except when he didn't have him.

[Solomon Grundy]

Let the DK Metcalf watch begin!!

[SWATeam]

3 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

McVay wanted him. They made an offer. He came out publicly and said several teams were throwing out crazy numbers and they weren't likely to match them.  

 

So how is this different than the Bills realizing that they weren't going to be willing to match what Sammy would be looking for when he got to free agency?

[HappyDays]

5 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

McVay wanted him. They made an offer. He came out publicly and said several teams were throwing out crazy numbers and they weren't likely to match them.  

 

A year after trading a 2nd round pick for Sammy, they let him go to another team, then paid a 1st round pick and a $16.2 million average salary for a different receiver. Whatever McVay said about it, he lied. They could have saved a 1st round pick in exchange for an extra $800,000 in average annual salary. They didn't think Sammy was worth that. And for the record Chiefs fans aren't happy with what he's contributed at all.

[Augie]

43 minutes ago, BurpleBull said:

 

...or blocking Ray-Ray's sunrays.

 

He was enjoying the Miami sun until Benjamin decided to check himself out of the game for a play, and stand directly in front of him on the sideline.

 

Yeah, you gotta love the 6’5” WR who checks himself out in the Red Zone. That’s very telling all by itself. 

[Kelly the Dog]

1 minute ago, SWATeam said:

So how is this different than the Bills realizing that they weren't going to be willing to match what Sammy would be looking for when he got to free agency?

The Rams already had two solid WR and the best RB in football who caught a lot of balls. And when they lost out on the Sammy sweepstakes they paid a fortune for his replacement, Cooks.

 

The FACT is, the two architects of the two best offenses in the last two decades BOTH traded for or paid a fortune to acquire Sammy Watkins, in consecutive years.

[Rochesterfan]

5 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

He’s playing very well and he’d instantly be the best receiver on the Bills and his skill set is perfect for Josh Allen.  Jason Peters, Sammy Watkins - Bills fans never tire of misevaluating players who ask to be paid.

 

 

I am not sure about very well - currently in the high tempo fast paced KC offense - Watkins has 1 less catch than Zay Jones and 1 less TD than Jones and about 50 more yards.  All that “production” with a CAP hit this year 5X as high and nearly 12 times next year versus Jones.

 

So he is being outpaced by Jones, but the Bills have thrown the ball 60+ fewer times than KC.

 

Sammy is not bad, but the KC offense has not missed him the last 3 games and he is just getting into the contract.

[Magox]

10 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

McVay wanted him. They made an offer. He came out publicly and said several teams were throwing out crazy numbers and they weren't likely to match them.  

I guarantee that McVay was very happy with him last year and that Andy Reid was very happy with him this year, except when he didn't have him.

 

You can guarantee all you want but it wont take away from the fact that the Rams decided to go with Cooks over Watkins for about the same money and that Watkibs was a sub 600 yard performer last year and was 4th on the team with receptions and is now set for around a 700-800 yard season and be 3rd or 4th again this year.

 

 

The Bill's would have been idiots to try to sign him at at that price.  A) it doesnt make sense for this team and B) he is nowhere near worth it based on his production

[HappyDays]

7 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

The FACT is, the two architects of the two best offenses in the last two decades BOTH traded for or paid a fortune to acquire Sammy Watkins, in consecutive years.

 

And one let him go immediately, in exchange for the lost value of a 1st and 2nd round pick, and I guarantee the other is having buyer's remorse right now. You think if Reid could go back in time and trade his contract for a secondary, he wouldn't do it?

[SWATeam]

25 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

The Rams already had two solid WR and the best RB in football who caught a lot of balls. And when they lost out on the Sammy sweepstakes they paid a fortune for his replacement, Cooks.

 

The FACT is, the two architects of the two best offenses in the last two decades BOTH traded for or paid a fortune to acquire Sammy Watkins, in consecutive years.

These discussions are amazing...  Sammy was the 4th leading receiver on the Rams and the 3rd leading receiver on the Chiefs.  He's still dealing with chronic feet issues, and yet, people still think it would have been a good idea to pay him 20M a year- or whatever ridiculous premium it would have taken to entice him to want to stay in Buffalo...

[One Buffalo]

Interesting stat that confirms what many are saying... definitely an addition by subtraction move.