Start Josh Allen (healthy) or Matt Barkley?

[MarkAF43]

1 minute ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

It was a road game against a very good defense, in the division and the guy has only been on the team for 12 days. We scored 41 points and he threw more TDs in 15 completions then we have in the last 3 games

 

I’d hardly call 18th overall in Defense a very good defense. 

 

Im not taking anything away from Barkley and his day. I’m saying you don’t abort the plan for a gem from a guy who doesn’t consistently put up gems. 

[Augie]

18 minutes ago, NCDAWG said:

Barkley...Let Josh learn.

 

 

I get that, but you learn by doing. 

[Warcodered]

5 minutes ago, MJS said:

Why would you not want to start Barkley until he sucks it up? It will give Allen more time to sit and learn.

because it's not the beginning of the season.

[MJS]

1 minute ago, Warcodered said:

because it's not the beginning of the season.

 

Why does that matter? Is it now impossible for Allen to learn while sitting?

[Warcodered]

2 minutes ago, MJS said:

 

Why does that matter? Is it now impossible for Allen to learn while sitting?

He's done that the last 4 weeks. At some point a QB has to learn by playing and when he was playing it didn't seem to be completely overwhelming him.

[Chicken Boo]

Barkley.  He's earned it.  

 

In a perfect scenario, Allen shouldn't have started a single game this year and let's be real, he hasn't looked anywhere near as good as Barkley did today.

[PetermansRedemption]

The fact that people are seriously discussing benching the guy who just led the Bills to their best offensive output in forever is ludicrous to me. Allen has been far from impressive, it will not hurt him at all to sit and watch (and hopefully learn). If Barkley played like Peterman or Anderson then sure, start Allen. It would be going from the bottom of the barrel to an unknown at that point. Right now, Barkley has had one game as a Bill and thrived. There is absolutely zero reason to start Allen right now. It will not hurt him at all to sit and learn until Barkley falters. In all likelihood, he will sooner rather than later. 

[The Wiz]

15 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I get that, but you learn by doing. 

It really depends on the person but I agree.  Allen is a learn by doing as opposed to a book smart learner.

 

I write programs and websites and can look at code all day and not know how it works until I actually start typing it myself.

Edited November 12, 2018 by The Wiz

[CincyBillsFan]

Play Allen & sit Barkley.  No one is going to believe that Allen, who was almost able to go today is still not recovered enough to go in 2 weeks.  My reasons are simple:

 

*  The let Allen sit and learn crowd have a good point ONLY if Allen wasn't named the starter in week 2.  At that point "sit & learn" went out the window.  There are consequences to benching the 7th pick in the draft for getting injured.  Allen had the starting job and when he's healthy, which looks to be now, he gets it back. 

 

*  We know exactly what we have in Barkley.  And it's good news - he looks to be a competent back up QB.  However to look at him in any other way is to ignore the mans body of work which was accumulated over 6 years in the NFL.   

 

*  We think we know what we have in Allen, otherwise he's not a high first round draft pick, but we don't know for sure.  It's critical that we find out.  And when you spend the 7th pick in the draft on a QB you have to give them at least 2 seasons to make the assessment.  If Allen doesn't see the field the rest of the year then we're looking at 2020 before we know whether we've got our guy or if it's back square one at QB.  There is NO other question facing this franchise more important then this one. 

 

*   And it's more then just figuring out if Allen is the guy.  Even if he is the guy, we still have to develop him and the only way to do that at this point is to give him NFL reps.  And to be fair, in the 6 games that Allen started or had significant playing  time, he faced teams that are all probably going to the playoffs.  In the last 6 games only New England is a likely playoff team.  I for one would like to see what Allen & this offense can do playing defenses that aren't in the top 10.

 

*  I think Allen has shown that he's pretty tough mentally but everyone has their limits.  So let's say that McDermott goes with Barkley and tries to skirt the issue when questioned by the media by claiming that Allen still isn't 100%?  What does Allen say when the media asks him?  Do we really want Allen claiming he is healthy and dispute his head coach.  Am I the only one that can see how this turns into a mess real fast.  This isn't fantasy football here, these are human beings with real emotions and how they react to this kind of stuff can be unpredictable.

 

*  Oh and for the record if they start Allen he may very well not play as good as Barkley.  Starting Allen is something you do for the long-term good of the franchise.  But then again if the Bills think Barkley is their best chance to win then maybe they should trade Allen (I'm being facetious here).  As an aside folks bring up Mahonnes but KC was a legit playoff contender and Alex Smith was a PROVEN starting NFL QB.  The Bills are not playoff contenders and Barkley is not a starting QB. 

 

 

[PetermansRedemption]

6 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

He's done that the last 4 weeks. At some point a QB has to learn by playing and when he was playing it didn't seem to be completely overwhelming him.

? let’s not pretend Allen was good. He averaged 150 yards per game started and has 2 TDS vs 5 INTS. Even counting his rushing TD’s he has 5 with 5 INTS. I want to see Allen succeed as much as the next guy, but he absolutely doesn’t give the Bills the best chance to win right now and can definitely learn from sitting behind an actual competent QB. 

[The Wiz]

Just now, Bills2ref said:

? let’s not pretend Allen was good. He averaged 150 yards per game started and has 2 TDS vs 5 INTS. Even counting his rushing TD’s he has 5 with 5 INTS. I want to see Allen succeed as much as the next guy, but he absolutely doesn’t give the Bills the best chance to win right now and can definitely learn from sitting behind an actual competent QB. 

Maybe they dont care if he wins right now but gets the game experience under his belt.

 

Not saying you're wrong, just saying.

[PetermansRedemption]

2 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

Maybe they dont care if he wins right now but gets the game experience under his belt.

 

Not saying you're wrong, just saying.

If this will help him come along faster, I will be all for it. I’m just not sure the best way to go right now isn’t letting him sit for a little while. He has not been watching and learning the past 4 weeks, we want him to learn absolutely nothing from Peterman or Anderson. With Barkley we may have an average to slightly below average QB to learn from. Instead of the pure trash that is Peterman or Anderson. 

Edited November 12, 2018 by Bills2ref

[billsfan_34]

Allen all day- he needs the reps for development. Were not going anywhere this year. 

[PetermansRedemption]

13 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

He's done that the last 4 weeks. At some point a QB has to learn by playing and when he was playing it didn't seem to be completely overwhelming him.

What we want Allen to retain from Peterman or Anderson from the past four weeks is precisely nothing. 

[The Wiz]

Just now, Bills2ref said:

If this will help him come along faster, I will be all for it. I’m just not sure the best way to go right now is letting him sit for a little while. He has not been watching and learning the past 4 weeks, we want him to learn absolutely nothing from Peterman or Anderson. With Barkley we may have an average to slightly below average QB to learn from. Instead of the pure trash that is Peterman or Anderson. 

 

Well at the very least he has learned what not to do while he has been out.

 

Like I said, it all depends on what the team is trying to do.  If they want Allen to get the reps regardless of their record then go for it if he is healthy.  If they are looking for wins, I say go with the hot hand.

 

Either way, I'll be happy to see either of them on the field in 2 weeks.

[26CornerBlitz]

6 minutes ago, Bills2ref said:

? let’s not pretend Allen was good. He averaged 150 yards per game started and has 2 TDS vs 5 INTS. Even counting his rushing TD’s he has 5 with 5 INTS. I want to see Allen succeed as much as the next guy, but he absolutely doesn’t give the Bills the best chance to win right now and can definitely learn from sitting behind an actual competent QB. 

 

They are 3-7, so who cares?

[Adam727]

Start Allen.  But, I would like to see Barkley get one more game at some point this year to see if today was a fluke.  I think I'd like to see the Bills try to bring Barkley back next year on a reasonable 1 year deal.  

[Peace Frog]

No matter what, Peterman should be gone tomorrow morning.  Trade him for a bag of ice or something of equal value.

[CincyBillsFan]

17 minutes ago, Bills2ref said:

? let’s not pretend Allen was good. He averaged 150 yards per game started and has 2 TDS vs 5 INTS. Even counting his rushing TD’s he has 5 with 5 INTS. I want to see Allen succeed as much as the next guy, but he absolutely doesn’t give the Bills the best chance to win right now and can definitely learn from sitting behind an actual competent QB. 

 

I agree that overall Allen didn't play well but he had a gem of a game against Minnesota and led a 4th quarter rally against Tennessee - both teams which are likely to be in the playoffs.  In fact Allen faced by far the toughest competition of the Bills QB's this season.  I believe every defense he faced is in the top half of the leagues rankings. 

 

He started or had significant playing time against a 6 game gauntlet of likely playoff teams.  And now I'm deeply curious as to how Allen would do against the next 6 teams of which only 1 is a likely playoff team.  IMO the Bills organization should be even more curious then me about this. 

 

What it comes down to between the "start Allen" & "start Barkley" folks is what is more important - possibly winning a couple of more games this season or getting a quality read on your top 10 draft pick QB.  I get the desire to win games and watch an offense that looks competent.  But isn't that what we've been looking at for the last 19 years with ONE playoff appearance to show for it?  To me it's an obvious choice - you go all in with Allen until he proves he's either a bust or your franchise QB. 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2018 by CincyBillsFan

[Chicken Boo]

Put me on record stating that starting Allen next week is a colossal mistake.  Especially if he stinks it up.

 

Trial by fire isn't the best thing for such a raw talent like Allen, IMO.  He has a lot to work on and now has 2 vet QBs to guide him. 

 

What's the rush?

[CincyBillsFan]

3 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

No matter what, Peterman should be gone tomorrow morning.  Trade him for a bag of ice or something of equal value.

 

This is probably something most of us can agree on.  At this point the guy is a distraction.  It's bad enough that he stole the majority of first team reps over the summer. 

[26CornerBlitz]

7 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

No matter what, Peterman should be gone tomorrow morning.  Trade him for a bag of ice or something of equal value.

 

The trade deadline has passed, but even if it hadn't he has no trade value. 

[CincyBillsFan]

2 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

Put me on record stating that starting Allen next week is a colossal mistake.  Especially if he stinks it up.

 

Trial by fire isn't the best thing for such a raw talent like Allen, IMO.  He has a lot to work on and now has 2 vet QBs to guide him. 

 

What's the rush?

 

It's 2 weeks which gives the Bills a chance to come up with an imaginative offensive game plan and fully integrate Allen into it.  One of the pleasant surprises for me today was how clever the Bills were on offense. 

 

And yes in a perfect world Allen would sit and learn and everyone would have the patience to let this raw talent develop.  But this is far from a perfect world.  I mean it seems like at least one quarter of the Bills fan base is ready to declare Allen a bust.  Whether we like it or not the clock is ticking and I think that at this point he learns more on the field then on the sideline.

 

There's also the fact that Allen has gotten a taste of playing.  Sure it was more bad then good but when you hear the guy talk he is chomping at the bit to get back out there.  I think that the risk of McDermott not playing him at this point outweighs the risk of playing him.  Again Allen was thrown to the wolves and he sort of survived it.  Now is not the time to get queasy about him getting back into the fray.

 

But you make a good point.  Allen is a rookie and if he gets put back in as the starter he's going to have a couple of bad games in the last 6.  And his first game back could be stinker with the home crowd booing him.  But because of the mistakes made by the Bills with respect to QB in the off season that's the situation we're stuck with.  Maybe the way to look at it that there are two poor options here but one of them is worse then the other. 

 

 

[MJS]

46 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

He's done that the last 4 weeks. At some point a QB has to learn by playing and when he was playing it didn't seem to be completely overwhelming him.

 

He was getting by with his pure athleticism. He wasn't effectively reading the defense or understanding what he was seeing pre-snap.

 

Mahomes sat and learned for a year. It appears to have helped him. Allen, who is more raw than Mahomes was, would probably benefit from doing the same.

[hondo in seattle]

I've been saying for weeks that this season is preseason for 2019.  We're not going to the playoffs this year so let the young guys get experience.  

 

Barkley looked good today but he's not the future.  I voted Allen.  

[BullBuchanan]

Barkley. Allen looks good holding that clipboard.

[fridge]

It's an incredibly weird situation, we can all agree on that. If we weren't on the trajectory of being the worst offense since the pass was invented (before today) this would be easier to answer.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Need to develop the franchise.

 

 

[HomeskillitMoorman]

Allen. 

 

Barkley has the potential to be a solid backup but that's what he is. We're really not going to get anything out of him starting games.

[keepthefaith]

Allen for the next 4 games or so if fully healthy.  The game experience will help him.  Barkley might be a good backup candidate for next year and beyond.  He's just come off an injury and is still learning the offense.  Give Josh some starts and Barkley some weeks to heal a bit more and time to get into better game shape and play Barkley the last couple games to see if they think he's a keeper.  DA can help coach them both up for the rest of the year. 

[Virgil]

Barkley, unless he looks like he's costing us games.  Allen is part of the long term plan and learning was the plan from day 1.  If we have a guy that can win us games while Allen learns, then great.  

 

Allen shouldn't play unless we feel he has to.  If Barkley tears it up like today, isn't that a win win?

[TheFunPolice]

Counting today, Barkley (who has been in the league since 2013) has a career 10 TD and 18 INT and just over 2100 yards passing.

 

His 232 yards today were good for 15th in the league, and his 2 TDs were 13th in the league.

 

Not bad, but if Barkley's career and performance today keep the 7th overall pick on the bench when you're 3-7 then you might have made a mistake drafting Allen there.

 

I guess we have to waste a game or two starting Barkley for show... it is what it is.

 

Either way history has shown how the Barkley story goes. It won't be long, but it's a shame to waste valuable reps. At least there won't be a controversy when Allen comes back in.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2018 by TheFunPolice

[Mat68]

1 hour ago, The Wiz said:

Maybe they dont care if he wins right now but gets the game experience under his belt.

 

Not saying you're wrong, just saying.

Was Barkley beating a terrible jets team more impressive than Allen vs Minnesota?  No.  Is Barkley a franchise Qb? No.  Why when you are 3-6 would you go with a guy on the team 3 weeks over your first rd draft pick?  Its lunacy to have the discussion.  

[reddogblitz]

I voted Barkley for 2 reasons. 

 

1. He threw as many TD passes today as the other 3 combined.  We need at least competent QB play for a while at least to determine if these WRs and Oline guys are any good.  Today the WRs were able to get separation and catch the ball which they hadn't been so good at with the other guys.  Protection seemed a little better.  We need to develop them too.

 

2. I don't think Allen is ready. If Barkley can put a few more games like this together, it could be a good learning experience for Josh. Would also give him time to work on fundamentals which he dearly needs if he is ever to be good.

 

When we get to the final few games if we are indeed out, then start Josh the last few games of the year.  When he was in before it didn't look to me like he learned much and was likely developing bad habits with the pass rush etc.

[Mango]

If Allen can’t beat out Peterman over the course of an offseason, and Barkley just getting off the couch,  I think we have our answer on JA. 

[Prickly Pete]

2 hours ago, OJ Tom said:

 

You say that Allen needs more time to heal, and start Barkley. 

Simple.

 

"Impossible"?

Get a grip, it doesn't have to be believeable, just practical. 

 

Letting Barkley play is no big deal. 

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

Depends on what you want out of the season...are you trying to win or is your goal to give Allen experience?  There is no right or wrong answer...but your answer should depend on what you want out of this season.

 

That being said, I couldn’t care less either way...Go Bills!

Considering we're about 90% out of the playoffs I'd start Barkley 1-2 more games to see if today was a fluke or maybe he can be a good long term backup. Then let Josh finish off the last 4 games. Best of both worlds. Treat the rest of this season as auditions for next year. Today answered alot of questions. 

[KOKO NFL]

I think everyone agrees we need to develop Josh Allen to see what we have in him. The issue isn't whether to start him again, it's a matter of when! The original plan was to bring in AJ McCarron and have the kid learn for a year. That plan was dropped when AJ was jettisoned, Peterman fizzled and, in the absence of any other alternative, Allen started. This to rather predictable uneven results (for a rookie most have judged still very raw.) 

 

Let's say JA is picked to start in two weeks against a tough Jaguars D and plays poorly. The hometown fans will be screaming for "Barkley" given his inaugural success. I don't believe that extra pressure will be good for the kid's development. (And he does need to develop: make quicker reads, stay longer in the pocket; improve his accuracy). Starting Barkley for another game or two, or until the veteran struggles, will benefit the kid in numerous ways. And allow the team, and offensive players in particular, to gain some momentum.

[BobbyC81]

 

Let’s temper our enthusiasm over Barkley’s performance.  Yes, he played very well but there are reasons this is his 6th team and he was available now. He’s been very inconsistent in his career.  

 

I think if Allen is healthy, he should play as he’s expected to be the future.

If he’s not 100%, let him sit and see what Barkley can do with more action.

 

Having Barkley now, I think Anderson can go back to the mentor role.

[Dadonkadonk]

3 hours ago, iinii said:

Barkley. I have been in the sit Allen camp all year. Allen last week said watching has helped a lot and I believe beating up a rookie is not the key to success especially considering how raw he is. 

Goff and Trubisky would disagree

This board is absolutely nuts.  95 % of you ran TT out of town wanting a new shiny first round QB.  Now you want to stick with a popgun has-been on his 6th team as the QB of the future?  For God's sake. It was the Jets.  And the Jets dropped two interceptions.  

Allen is the future.  He plays when he is healthy.  He is the best QB on the team.