When was the last time an NFL team gave up on a HC too soon?

[BADOLBILZ]

9 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

Levy was last HC in KC more than 35 years ago.  Point is, the Bills are not trending, after 2 offseasons and 24 games toward being playoff caliber.  

 

 

Outside of Tom Coughlin I can't think of one.  With NFL HCs, if they flame out in their first job it's not typical they'll figure things out in the second.  That is, if they get a second chance because most don't.   

 

 

I think a lot of them get second chances..........but generally if you flame out at the first one the next one isn't likely to be that much better of a situation.

 

I mean Meathead Mularkey has somehow THRICE been a HC now.........and I don't think it takes owners very long to realize that he's just not exceptional.

[Boatdrinks]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

They didn't in 1996 when Belichick would have started in Baltimore if he hadn't been fired before the move.  Things would have played out completely differently.  Dilfer was a TB reject. 

Right. That’s why I stated you could insert a different name there. It almost certainly wouldn’t have been Brady. 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 minutes ago, Heitz said:

Sooooo, all we need to do is find a coach that’s never been fired and we’re good..?

 

Also, aren’t almost all NFL coaches eventually fired?

 

 

McD was even fired as DC in Philly.

 

Juan Castillo.........our esteemed OL coach.........replaced him as DC.?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

In the coming months we are going to hear a lot about how McD and Beane need more time to execute their plan etc.. and how outrageous it would be to let them go before they have 3-5 years to execute or fail miserably at their objective.

 

We used to hear the "Bills need to give (insert coach name) more time"  over and over as an excuse for not firing them for poor performance.............and the example used was Belichick being let go by the Browns when they moved to Baltimore.

 

But really........how many NFL HC's have been fired and then gone on to make that team regret it in the last 25 years?

 

Can't think of many.

 

Washington firing Marty Schottenheimer after 2001?

 

Otherwise I can't even think of any.

 

Even situations like the Eagles firing Andy Reid that seemed *possibly* ill advised based on past record have not proven to have been mistakes.

 

Seems to me that nowadays teams can get a VERY GOOD idea of the potential of a HC/GM in a pretty short amount of time on the job.

 

Interesting thread, BadOl.

 

I tend to believe the Bills let Son of Bum go too soon.  I'm not sure who hitched our star to Rob Johnson - I thought I heard at the time he was Ralph Wilson's idea.  Maybe you know.

 

It can be argued that Wade never took a team deep into the playoffs in his HC stints, but in Dallas I thought that had something to do with having a QB who wasn't "Mr Postseason".  Certainly he can put in a good claim to have been plagued by questionable reffing in both B'lo and Dallas.

 

Belichick*** is certainly the most notorious example and there's an argument to be made for "one Mo Lewis hit away from the unemployment line"

 

Wow, it hadn't sunk in with me before just how long a run Reid got in Philly.

 

[Tcali]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

In the coming months we are going to hear a lot about how McD and Beane need more time to execute their plan etc.. and how outrageous it would be to let them go before they have 3-5 years to execute or fail miserably at their objective.

 

We used to hear the "Bills need to give (insert coach name) more time"  over and over as an excuse for not firing them for poor performance.............and the example used was Belichick being let go by the Browns when they moved to Baltimore.

 

But really........how many NFL HC's have been fired and then gone on to make that team regret it in the last 25 years?

 

Can't think of many.

 

Washington firing Marty Schottenheimer after 2001?

 

Otherwise I can't even think of any.

 

Even situations like the Eagles firing Andy Reid that seemed *possibly* ill advised based on past record have not proven to have been mistakes.

 

Seems to me that nowadays teams can get a VERY GOOD idea of the potential of a HC/GM in a pretty short amount of time on the job.

def scottenheimer…...belichek in Cleveland.   Bill walsh passed over for HC in CINCY  of all places

14 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I think a lot of them get second chances..........but generally if you flame out at the first one the next one isn't likely to be that much better of a situation.

 

I mean Meathead Mularkey has somehow THRICE been a HC now.........and I don't think it takes owners very long to realize that he's just not exceptional.

Tenn looks worse though

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, Tcali said:

def scottenheimer…...belichek in Cleveland.   Bill walsh passed over for HC in CINCY  of all places

 

 

I think the further you go back there were a lot of instances.......once you get to the 2000's it's really hard to find an example.

 

Teams still make bad hires..........but proven bad firings are almost not even a thing anymore.

 

IMO it's because things move in high speed now.........much easier to evaluate the people you hire to run your team.

 

The roster Doug Pederson inherited with the Eagles was considered pretty torn up by Chip Kelly.............certainly worse than the pre-free agency roster that Rex left behind in Buffalo........and a with whole lotta' good GM'ing and exactly zero tankin'  they were beating teams down a season later on their way to a SB win.

[Tcali]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I think the further you go back there were a lot of instances.......once you get to the 2000's it's really hard to find an example.

 

Teams still make bad hires..........but proven bad firings are almost not even a thing anymore.

 

IMO it's because things move in high speed now.........much easier to evaluate the people you hire to run your team.

 

The roster Doug Pederson inherited with the Eagles was considered pretty torn up by Chip Kelly.............certainly worse than the pre-free agency roster that Rex left behind in Buffalo........and a with whole lotta' good GM'ing and exactly zero tankin'  they were beating teams down a season later on their way to a SB win.

I would agree with that

[Charles Romes]

Nick Saban

[Tcali]

3 minutes ago, Charles Romes said:

Nick Saban

bingo

[DocLawless]

I won't speak on Beane as I feel he still has a lot to prove, but my personal opinion is that very few coaches could have brought last years roster to the playoffs. I know we had some help and I know McDermotts clapping annoys people for some reason, but I think we have a good one in him. I hope he gets a couple more years. 

[Talley56]

Possibly Tampa, Dungy.  I know, they won the SB the next year but they fell hard not too long after that.

Edited November 4, 2018 by Talley56

[jr1]

Wade and the Bills. Hue and the Raiders

[njbillsman]

Did anyone think this roster was a playoff team. 50 Plus million in dead cap space. The team broke the playoff drought last year I think that should bank some credibility as a good coach. 

 

Though technically not fired, letting Doug Marone walk away could be considered  a mistake. If basing it on the level of success he has had after his departure. 

 

My personal stance is I root for the Bills and coach McD is part of the team and I hope he will be successful in rebuilding a championship caliber team. When and if he gets replaced I will be cheering just as much for the next guy. Go Bills 

[ganesh]

3 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

You know, that brings up a really interesting thought. What kind of coach would Bill Belichick even be if not for Brady? He had the one season with Matt Cassel where they went 10-6, but that's not enough of a sample size to say definitively one way or the other.

 

It's not an original thought, but I'm sure he'd love to win a ring without Brady. Obviously the whole Jimmy G thing has been discussed to death.

Wasn't he 2-5 with Drew Bledsoe before the bizarre hit by Moe!

2 minutes ago, njbillsman said:

Did anyone think this roster was a playoff team. 50 Plus million in dead cap space. The team broke the playoff drought last year I think that should bank some credibility as a good coach. 

 

Though technically not fired, letting Doug Marone walk away could be considered  a mistake. If basing it on the level of success he has had after his departure. 

 

My personal stance is I root for the Bills and coach McD is part of the team and I hope he will be successful in rebuilding a championship caliber team. When and if he gets replaced I will be cheering just as much for the next guy. Go Bills 

Doug Marrone's  career has taken an upward swing after the hire of Tom Coughlin....Till then they were a bad team. 

[BarleyNY]

3 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

The Browns and Belicheat ?

 

Ravens. They fired him right after the move.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

After Belichick, the Browns have cycled through 10 coaches if you count Greggie, but I wouldn’t say any of them are going to be missed outside of Bill. But crazy as it sounds, the last coach in Cleveland to sport a winning regular season  record, is also Marty S, and Modell waved goodbye after the 88 season—I’d say based on Cleveland time alone, Marty may be one that franchise also regrets letting slip away too soon. They haven’t recovered since. Washington and San Diego also didn’t learn this lesson where he’s concerned 

[njbillsman]

6 minutes ago, ganesh said:

Doug Marrone's  career has taken an upward swing after the hire of Tom Coughlin....Till then they were a bad team. 

Doug Marrone was a success at Syracuse. He left coming off a winning season in Buffalo. Tom Coughlin was hired the same day Marrone was officially given the head coaching job in Jacksonville. I'm not an apologist for Marrone I'm just saying he is a success with and without Tom.

[Buffalo86]

Not that he's done anything since to make them regret it, but I thought Greg Schiano should've been given a 3rd year in Tampa Bay. 

[K-9]

I’m more interested in coaches who got off to such inauspicious starts that they had their fan bases up in arms and clamoring for them to be fired but were retained and then went on to succeed. 

[BillsVet]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

I think a lot of them get second chances..........but generally if you flame out at the first one the next one isn't likely to be that much better of a situation.

 

I mean Meathead Mularkey has somehow THRICE been a HC now.........and I don't think it takes owners very long to realize that he's just not exceptional.

 

I looked at 20 seasons' worth (1999-2018) of HC hires and there were more coaches than I thought who received 2nd HC jobs.  It's an incomplete list, but I saw 37 guys hired in those years who at some point had 1 or more HC jobs.  Of that group, I'd classify only a few (Andy Reid, Vermeil, Coughlin, Kubiak, and Carroll) having similar or more success in second or later gigs than their first.  Roughly put, that's about 85% that didn't improve in their second jobs.  

 

Also found it noteworthy that during this time there were 137 HC hires made, so on average 7 teams are changing HCs every year.  

 

At this point, I'd expect to see significant improvement in year 3 or it's on to someone else.  Turnover is not bad when something shows no sign of improving. 

Edited November 4, 2018 by BillsVet

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I’m more interested in coaches who got off to such inauspicious starts that they had their fan bases up in arms and clamoring for them to be fired but were retained and then went on to succeed. 

No. Focus on the negative. That's the point of this exercise.

[reddogblitz]

Even though technically not fired, Doug Marrone.

Pete Carroll a couple of times.

Bruce Arians

Mike Mulrkey won a playoff game last year

George Allen

Gene Stallings although he won his Championship in college football

Marv Levy

Dan Reeves fired by Denver and got Atlanta to SB

Chuck Knox got Seahawks to AFC Championship game after leaving Buffalo

Tony Dungee

John Gruden

 

 

[BigDingus]

Oddly enough, Hue Jackson being fired after 1 year with the Raiders.

He actually had that team moving in the right direction, but the Davis family likes those splashy guys.

[GunnerBill]

9 hours ago, K-GunJimKelly12 said:

49ers with Harbaugh.

 

If anything they fired him a year too late. He had fallen out with everyone in the building at least a year before he left. Including most of his players. 

 

Good thread Badol. I will have a think. 

27 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

Oddly enough, Hue Jackson being fired after 1 year with the Raiders.

He actually had that team moving in the right direction, but the Davis family likes those splashy guys.

 

I might even say Jack Del Rio.... firing him to bring in Gruden was a mistake. 

6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

McD was even fired as DC in Philly.

 

Juan Castillo.........our esteemed OL coach.........replaced him as DC.?

 

Decisions which both prove why Reid out in Philly was not a mistake. He had lost his way at the end.... firing a decent DC and replacing him with an offensive line coach. 

 

The change was good for everyone. 

6 hours ago, Charles Romes said:

Nick Saban

 

No. Saban isn't made for the NFL. He knows it too. 

[BigDingus]

6 hours ago, Charles Romes said:

Nick Saban

 

15 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

No. Saban isn't made for the NFL. He knows it too. 

 

Also, he wasn't fired. He quit.

[GunnerBill]

I am struggling to think of one. I always thought Brian Billick might have been canned a bit early in Baltimore but then they replaced him with another Head Coach who has been hugely successful served for a decade and won a Superbowl. So that doesn't make it.

 

The one I think might is Schwartz. I have a feeling he will be a really good Head Coach 2nd time around (and I think he will have a job next year). 

[Dafan]

9 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Brees didn't become a great QB until he hooked up with Sean Payton who brought out his best.  The Chargers have done well by having Rivers.

Thats not correct.  Brees' played amazing the year they drafted Rivers...over a 100 rating with 27 tds to 7 picks.  Problem was SD didnt given him enough time and jumped on the rivers campaign.

Edited November 4, 2018 by Dafan

[26CornerBlitz]

25 minutes ago, Dafan said:

Thats not correct.  Brees' played amazing the year they drafted Rivers...over a 100 rating with 27 tds to 7 picks.  Problem was SD didnt given him enough time and jumped on the rivers campaign.

 

It is correct. One amazing season doesn't translate to a great QB as he came back the next season with 24 TD passes to 15 INTs. See Nick Foles.  Besides that, Brees suffered a torn labrum that put his future career success in doubt. 

[formerlyofCtown]

12 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

In the coming months we are going to hear a lot about how McD and Beane need more time to execute their plan etc.. and how outrageous it would be to let them go before they have 3-5 years to execute or fail miserably at their objective.

 

We used to hear the "Bills need to give (insert coach name) more time"  over and over as an excuse for not firing them for poor performance.............and the example used was Belichick being let go by the Browns when they moved to Baltimore.

 

But really........how many NFL HC's have been fired and then gone on to make that team regret it in the last 25 years?

 

Can't think of many.

 

Washington firing Marty Schottenheimer after 2001?

 

Otherwise I can't even think of any.

 

Even situations like the Eagles firing Andy Reid that seemed *possibly* ill advised based on past record have not proven to have been mistakes.

 

Seems to me that nowadays teams can get a VERY GOOD idea of the potential of a HC/GM in a pretty short amount of time on the job.

Philly pretty much admitted the mistake and hired an Andy Reid guy.  Just like the Andy Reid guy we got.

[PlayoffsPlease]

12 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

The whining is at epic proportions.  Everyone on this board, every single person, knows there are no firings coming.  Yet we are deluged with these same type threads on a constant basis.

The condescension is if epic proportions.  Everyone on this board, every single person, knows that the McDermott is never winning a Super Bowl.  Yet we are deluged with these same comments defending every inane move the Bills make. 

[oldmanfan]

41 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

The condescension is if epic proportions.  Everyone on this board, every single person, knows that the McDermott is never winning a Super Bowl.  Yet we are deluged with these same comments defending every inane move the Bills make. 

You do not know that at all.  We do know he's not getting fired this year.  That is definitive.

 

There was a thread pages long starting Tuesday that Beane should be fired the next day.  Well, it's Sunday now and guess what?

 

What exact purpose do threads calling for phantom firings serve?

[dave mcbride]

12 hours ago, stuvian said:

I must have missed those meaningful games Rivers has won

Oh man. It's a TEAM game. QBs don't win and lose games; teams do. Rivers has taken Chargers teams to far above where they should have been given their overall talent level.

Edited November 4, 2018 by dave mcbride

[Big Gun]

19 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

You do not know that at all.  We do know he's not getting fired this year.  That is definitive.

 

There was a thread pages long starting Tuesday that Beane should be fired the next day.  Well, it's Sunday now and guess what?

 

What exact purpose do threads calling for phantom firings serve?

Link?

 

It's annoying when people spout out opinions as fact and have nothing to back it up!

[dave mcbride]

13 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

In the coming months we are going to hear a lot about how McD and Beane need more time to execute their plan etc.. and how outrageous it would be to let them go before they have 3-5 years to execute or fail miserably at their objective.

 

We used to hear the "Bills need to give (insert coach name) more time"  over and over as an excuse for not firing them for poor performance.............and the example used was Belichick being let go by the Browns when they moved to Baltimore.

 

But really........how many NFL HC's have been fired and then gone on to make that team regret it in the last 25 years?

 

Can't think of many.

 

Washington firing Marty Schottenheimer after 2001?

 

Otherwise I can't even think of any.

 

Even situations like the Eagles firing Andy Reid that seemed *possibly* ill advised based on past record have not proven to have been mistakes.

 

Seems to me that nowadays teams can get a VERY GOOD idea of the potential of a HC/GM in a pretty short amount of time on the job.

Good thread idea. Where would you put Marrone? He wasn't fired, but with no extension offered and the retention of Whaley, he clearly thought that the situation was untenable. 

 

Another good one to think about: Mularkey was fired after getting the team to the playoffs (and his second straight winning season), but I personally thought it was the right move. That team played below their level of ability because of the offensive game planning, in my view.

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

If anything they fired him a year too late. He had fallen out with everyone in the building at least a year before he left. Including most of his players. 

 

Good thread Badol. I will have a think. 

 

I might even say Jack Del Rio.... firing him to bring in Gruden was a mistake. 

 

Decisions which both prove why Reid out in Philly was not a mistake. He had lost his way at the end.... firing a decent DC and replacing him with an offensive line coach. 

 

The change was good for everyone. 

 

No. Saban isn't made for the NFL. He knows it too. 

I think Harbaugh got on the bad side of the poisonous people in that organization (Trent Balke etc.) They fired the wrong person.

[Scott7975]

Its kind of tough to answer this question.  There isn't that much data.  For the most part a team hires a coach and he is given time. He either turns out to be a decent to great coach, in which the team keeps him, or the coach is bad and then fired.

 

There aren't too many teams that have fired a good coach.  There are a lot of teams that fired a bad coach.  Almost all coaches get a few years to prove that one way or another.  Some of those have received poor help from their GMs along the way though.

Edited November 4, 2018 by Scott7975

[oldmanfan]

16 minutes ago, pop gun said:

Link?

 

It's annoying when people spout out opinions as fact and have nothing to back it up!

He's not getting fired this season.  And you know that.

[Big Gun]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

He's not getting fired this season.  And you know that.

No I don't know that and neither do you. 

 

Not For Long league applies not only to players but coaches also.

[plenzmd1]

I agree with you @BADOLBILZ with a minor tweak. The key to me is hiring guys behind the coach/GM who do not have a radically different scheme so as to need a complete tear down of the franchise. 

 

I think continuity for continiuity sake sake is idiotic. Continuity comes cause ya win, ya don’t win cause ya have continuity. 

[uticaclub]

The mishandling of the QB situation is almost inexcusable. Not sure you can trust McDermott to make other tough decisions after ***** up something this important, this early in his coaching career. Josh Allen is almost guaranteed to be a bust with the way this was handled

[thebandit27]

I suppose one could argue Pete Carroll, but I think he learned a lot from his stint with USC 

 

Aside from that, the only examples I can think of that could apply are the Raiders with Mike Shanahan, and perhaps the Jags with Tom Coughlin