Bodine New Starter at Center for Week Three at MIN

[3rdand12]

8 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

I've see Bengals fans dance, nothing to brag about or use as metric.  

Insight appreciated.

 I have only seen Icky Woods Dance. and that was many many years ago

[billsfan89]

6 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

Not shocking if true. Groy has struggled, to say the least. 

 

It is the easiest change to make. Bodine is a veteran center who took a lot of snaps with the starters in training camp. This is a natural first move in gradually reshuffling the offensive line. I hope to see Teller in at guard sooner rather than later but this seems to be the easier change to make. 

 

I am shocked Groy looked so awful this season. I thought he looked solid in any chance he got in 2016 and 2017 (Although very limited in 2017) I thought he would at least be decent. I don't have much faith in Bodine but you have to try something. 

[Augie]

To make it a fair fight, we should be able to play them BOTH. I think we’d still struggle.....

15 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

Insight appreciated.

 I have only seen Icky Woods Dance. and that was many many years ago

 

The fans were dancing, but it wasn’t nearly as entertaining....

[Bob in STL]

6 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Meanwhile Wyatt Teller must be thinking "WTF do I gotta do to get the coaches attn"

 

He can start by playing better in practice.  What is the infatuation with this guy.  

 

 

[billsfan89]

36 minutes ago, Buddo said:

In respect of what someone else said earlier in the thread, I think Bodine's experience, may help more, not so much the line, but with getting Allen to recognise the protections/coverages.

 

That's another factor I didn't consider. Bodine might be able to set a lot of the protection calls reliving some pressure from Allen. 

Just now, Bob in STL said:

 

He can start by playing better in practice.  What is the infatuation with this guy.  

 

 

 

The Bills might have the worst guard combo in the league and a 5th round pick guard (who was viewed as a steal in the 5th round by some pundits) is sitting on the bench. I am thirsty to see him play since "It can't get any worse" might as well see if he sucks since we know Vlad and Miller suck. But for me I am fully aware that Teller probably won't play very well but it is more so out of desperation that I would like to see Teller get a shot at some point esp if the O-line issues continue. 

[atlbillsfan1975]

We need 2 interior linemen from draft or FA for sure. I’d also like to see RT that isn’t a journeyman cast off to compete next year in camp. 

[Bob in STL]

4 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

Suppose I will drop this in here as well:

 

"Pro Football Focus provided some stock to that assessment by the Bills’ coordinator. In particular, PFF graded both offensive guards, Vlad Ducasse and John Miller very high in their own regard.

 

Per PFF, Ducasse is the NFL’s best pass-blocking guard through the first two weeks of the season with an overall grade of 91.3. He also had a team-high 88.3 pass-blocking grade against the Los Angeles Chargers during a 31-20 loss for the Bills.

 

Miller finished Week 2 as the highest-rated Bills’ offensive player overall (pass and run blocking combined) with a score of 73.3. Between both Ducasse and Miller, the duo have only surrendered one quarterback pressure in the first two games of the season."

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2018/09/18/buffalo-bills-vlad-ducasse-john-miller-brian-daboll-pff/

 

This cant be!  The experts on TSW say the Ducasse is the worst guard in the league.  How dare a non bias grading system be put in place. 

 

As for Miller, he had a very rough first game.  Good to hear he stepped up. 

 

Ive been saying for the past two games that Groy is not getting it done.  I hope Bodine can at least make the line calls. Tired of seeing blitzes that are not picked up. 

5 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

That's another factor I didn't consider. Bodine might be able to set a lot of the protection calls reliving some pressure from Allen. 

 

The Bills might have the worst guard combo in the league and a 5th round pick guard (who was viewed as a steal in the 5th round by some pundits) is sitting on the bench. I am thirsty to see him play since "It can't get any worse" might as well see if he sucks since we know Vlad and Miller suck. But for me I am fully aware that Teller probably won't play very well but it is more so out of desperation that I would like to see Teller get a shot at some point esp if the O-line issues continue. 

Oh, you’re following the draft pundits and TSW folklore. 

 

You may know that Vlad sucks but the coaches and his grades say otherwise.   He is having a good season thus far according to more reliable data from PFF. 

 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

The change at center is the only one Id make this week. Miller and Ducasse were decent against the Chargers. Different test on the road in Minny but you don't bench them after the Chargers game. 

 

Honestly you guys saying the line sucks, the line sucks.... you should go and watch the all 22 from this week. None of them are perfect but beyond Groy who was poor again the other 4 were serviceable and the guards were pretty good. 

 

I didn't expect to see it either. But Joe B and PFF are not making it up. Our guards played well last week. 

[billsfan89]

14 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

 

This cant be!  The experts on TSW say the Ducasse is the worst guard in the league.  How dare a non bias grading system be put in place. 

 

As for Miller, he had a very rough first game.  Good to hear he stepped up. 

 

Ive been saying for the past two games that Groy is not getting it done.  I hope Bodine can at least make the line calls. Tired of seeing blitzes that are not picked up. 

Oh, you’re following the draft pundits and TSW folklore. 

 

You may know that Vlad sucks but the coaches and his grades say otherwise.   He is having a good season thus far according to more reliable data from PFF. 

 

 

 

 

I am going off the eyeball test, for sure Miller and Vlad are grading out better than fans think but when I watch the games it seems like the O-line is getting consistently beat and it isn't just coming from Groy. I make no disillusions of grandeur that I know better than many forms of advanced metrics that were saying that the O-line beyond Groy played well or at least not as bad as previously thought. 

 

I also didn't say I would put Teller in right now (I think Bodine is the right and easy call to make for a change as Groy has under-performed and Bodine had spent a lot of time with the starting crew. I was more so stating why fans are so obsessed with Teller. Fans think the guards are playing poorly and they think that Teller a mid round pick could have been a steal and they think he could be better. 

 

The fans may not be right of course but that's the fan philsophy. I actually just saw the All-22. I am kind of shocked at their grades. Most players graded at a B- or better. Seems like if most of your players did an average or better job the game wouldn't have been so lopsided. I expected good grades on the defensive side and worse ones on the offensive side. 

Edited September 19, 2018 by billsfan89

[dollars 2 donuts]

6 hours ago, Lurker said:

Ugh.  Trading a dollar for 100 cents (or possibly less)...

 

Has I have mentioned before, we have free agency dollars but I don't think there is going to be anything of quality there available with respect to OLinemen.

 

WR?  Sure, but not OL.

 

honestly we gotta find a way to draft three starters next year.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

8 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Meanwhile Wyatt Teller must be thinking "WTF do I gotta do to get the coaches attn"

 

Or he may be thinking, Damm these guys are alot better than what I faced in the ACC.  And the coaches likely also realize he's not anywhere yet ready in spite of everything fanatics who see very little of how he's actually doing think.  Will he be ready in a few  more weeks to replace one of them maybe, or will he be ready by next week if one of the starters got hurt, likely yes then he will become as ready as he can be.  But right now the people who actually do this as a a living do know more.

[Turk71]

Bodine was one of the lowest rated ol the last few years and I don't expect him to be any better, even with the great supporting cast and the great Juan Castillo coaching him. If the plan wasn't to tank, these off-season moves have been mindboggling. 

   Putting your rookie QB behind this garbage line with no wrs is even more.

  

 

[vincec]

2 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

...didn't Groy fill in decently when Wood went down?......what the hell happened between then and now?......can we solely attribute the slide to Richie no longer being on his left side?....

Greg Romans system is very OL friendly. Remember that Kouandjio and Miller both looked good back then too. He had a better OL coach as well.

Edited September 20, 2018 by vincec

[NewEra]

7 hours ago, JoPar_v2 said:

Thing is, if Bodine is so absolutely atrocious, Cincinnati would not have started him for 4 years. If he can’t play at all, he would’ve been replaced rather quickly.

And if he was worth keeping they would’ve matched our puny offer

3 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

...didn't Groy fill in decently when Wood went down?......what the hell happened between then and now?......can we solely attribute the slide to Richie no longer being on his left side?....

Who’s coaching him now?  Mmhmmmm.  Says a lot imo.  Get rid of Castillo and replace him with someone credible and we’ll see our offense improve immediately 

[JoPar_v2]

26 minutes ago, NewEra said:

And if he was worth keeping they would’ve matched our puny offer

 

 

If his contract is puny and inconsequential  and the other center sucks then who cares who we start at center why we even having this debate?

 

cincy did offer him money he declined.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 hours ago, skibum said:

Bengals fans were dancing in the streets when this guy shipped off for Buffalo. I would not expect any improvement whatsoever. 

 

To be fair, I think it's a wash between Bodine and Groy for physical skill.  They both get pushed back and thrown on their butt too much. 

 

I'm wondering if they want the center to set the protections for now to lighten Josh's workload and hopefully keep him cleaner - I believe this varies from team to team and it's not uncommon for an experienced center to do so with a young QB behind him.  If that's the case, Bodine and his 4 years as a starting center might be better equipped to take that on.

 

 

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

The change at center is the only one Id make this week. Miller and Ducasse were decent against the Chargers. Different test on the road in Minny but you don't bench them after the Chargers game. 

 

Honestly you guys saying the line sucks, the line sucks.... you should go and watch the all 22 from this week. None of them are perfect but beyond Groy who was poor again the other 4 were serviceable and the guards were pretty good. 

 

I didn't expect to see it either. But Joe B and PFF are not making it up. Our guards played well last week. 

 

I second what GunnerBill said.  Watching All 22, the pass protection was serviceable - much better than I expected.  There were lapses in blitz pickup some of which may have been on Allen.  He had time, most plays.  Daboll seemed to have simplified from Week 1, and it worked much better.

 

The run blocking IMHO was still kind of a hot mess - OK, less of a hot mess than last week, maybe a lukewarm mess.  I'm not sure what to make of that, I couldn't figure out what was supposed to be some of the time.  Simplification may be called for there, too.

 

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

One bum for another.

 

 

[Buddo]

10 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

...didn't Groy fill in decently when Wood went down?......what the hell happened between then and now?......can we solely attribute the slide to Richie no longer being on his left side?....

 

My best guess would be a combination of factors. Different schemes, coaches and players. Was Kromer (Kramer?) the O-Line coach then - because he was the best we had had for some time - and far superior to Castillo.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Buddo said:

 

My best guess would be a combination of factors. Different schemes, coaches and players. Was Kromer (Kramer?) the O-Line coach then - because he was the best we had had for some time - and far superior to Castillo.

 

Yes, O-line coach was Kromer when Groy filled in capably, and guards were Miller (voted "most improved guard" that year and excellent vs run) and Cog.

[T master]

20 hours ago, BeefCurtns said:

They need to slide Groy to G Bench Miller and start Teller at the other guard. See what you got. It can't be much worse.

 

According to different articles i have read it's not the O line though as much as it is the QB ? One article on Rumblings today said the O line did rather well last week when they broke down the film .

 

I wonder where they got their film from & it said Ducasse did good too I wonder how many beers in they were when they saw that part of the film ??

[BrooklynBills]

22 hours ago, Blokestradamus said:

 

Brandon Thorn, one of the OL guys that I follow, absolutely loves Marpet. You can review some of his tweets about him (some with videos) here.

 

Not sure how he'll hold up this year at LG but he's already got some really good tape at C & RG.

He's a natural G. Bucs signing Jensen has really improved their OL because it allowed them to improve two positions on their OL by moving Marpet back to G.

[RoyBatty is alive]

Groy is getting manhandled

[CLTbills]

22 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

From Chris Brown's Quick Hits Presser Summary:

 

Battles being waged on offensive line

After leaving the door open on Monday for some potential changes on Buffalo’s offensive line, McDermott would not confirm that any had or would take place. He did however, leave that option open to him and his offensive staff.

 

“We’ve got some guys in there that are battling and competing with that first group and that second group,” said McDermott. “So, we’re going to continue to look at that.”

 

The Bills currently rank 31st in total offense, 25th in rushing, 31st in passing and 31st in first downs.

Hey, we've improved one position in passing from last year!!

[nucci]

When your offense plays so poorly it's not just one group's fault...I'm guessing and hopeful they will improve each week as Allen gets more comfortable

Edited September 20, 2018 by nucci

[Luka]

Where are all the posters here that claimed Wood was over rated?

 

Whoops.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

Guess we'll have to wait to see.

 

 

[Fan in Chicago]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Guess we'll have to wait to see.

Isnt this evaluation meant for the pre-season ? Or are these designated starters offseason stars like Peterman ?

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, Fan in Chicago said:

Isnt this evaluation meant for the pre-season ? Or are these designated starters offseason stars like Peterman ?

 

They evidently haven't figured out which of their Centers is worse. 

[Philo]

Just now, Fan in Chicago said:

Isnt this evaluation meant for the pre-season ? Or are these designated starters offseason stars like Peterman ?

 

If I recall correctly, Groy and Bodine were considered pretty even throughout preseason. Neither outplayed the other. At that point, I would have thought Bodine would get the nod due to 4 years of experience at C, so I am not really sure how Groy got the job. Perhaps familiarity with teammates? 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[GG]

3 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Would make sense.  Miller has been awful

[Dablitzkrieg]

Miller sucks, Groy sucks less, Bodine, sucks less than Groy.  DuCasse is actually serviceable, I can't believe I just typed that.  We really need 4 new olineman next year

[GunnerBill]

32 minutes ago, GG said:

Would make sense.  Miller has been awful

 

He was awful week one, but outplayed Groy, and was actually above average week 2.

3 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Miller sucks, Groy sucks less, Bodine, sucks less than Groy.  DuCasse is actually serviceable, I can't believe I just typed that.  We really need 4 new olineman next year

 

So far this season Groy as sucked the most of our OL and comfortably so. 

[Dablitzkrieg]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He was awful week one, but outplayed Groy, and was actually above average week 2.

 

So far this season Groy as sucked the most of our OL and comfortably so. 

Miller is bad as well!

[Ittakestime]

Our TE provide so little in passing game, I would rather have a Newhouse be a TE and use him for blocking.  Pretty much roll with 6 o lineman.

[Philo]

I am a little surprised Khari Lee has not been active to help block. Swap him with Logan Thomas, who has already whiffed big time on a block.

[GunnerBill]

36 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Miller is bad as well!

 

He sucked week 1 was alright week 2.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

They evidently haven't figured out which of their Centers is worse. 

 

 

That's about it.

 

48 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

(Miller) He sucked week 1 was alright week 2.

 

Too simplistic.  I've been trying to tease apart the horrid run blocking with some help from other members on a couple of plays.

That's our biggest problem right now on OL IMO

Daboll (or whoever is designing the run game, but the buck stops with Daboll),  is trying to be too frickin' cute.

 

Take a look on all-22 at the run play, 1st and ten at the LAC21 with 0:34 left in the 1st Q.  It is intended to be a fake end-around HB slam.

(With me so far? Took a couple views to decide how to describe the intended play)

 

The blocking scheme starts with Groy and the R side of the line shifting R and Holmes shifting to seal off the end as though it's gonna be a run to RT.

Meanwhile, Jones comes across for the fake end-around.  Groy chips then Ducasse and Dawkins are supposed to cut block the DT and DE.  Croom at TE is (we think) supposed to pull and take out the OLB.  Defense is supposed to think "whups, NO, not run to RT, end-around!"

After all that, Shady takes the handoff and heads up the gut behind Groy - where he finds Ducasse prone body, Dawkins prone body, and the un-cut DT, DE and OLB on their feet ready to meet-n-greet him.

 

That's Shady behind Miller, who is blocking the RDE.  Groy is heading out to block, but Ducasse and Dawkins are on the turf after unsuccessful cuts and the DT Mebane is on his feet waiting for Shady.  Croom is also on the turf, hidden by DE Ingram who is about to hurdle him and close on Shady.

Here's Mebane saying "come to Papa, Shady" while Ingram and the OLB seal off the space not blockaded by Ducasse getting up

 

It's not even that Groy or Miller or anyone else is bad on the play.  It's that they can't finesse the complicated timing and nail the cut blocks reliably IMO

 

Why not try a simpler play, with say, Croom pulling to lead Shady up the gut after Groy?  It really couldn't look any worse, and I can't believe all this pointless throwing themselves to the turf is helping our OL's physique.

 

DABOLL:  ALL THIS FAKERY IS NOT WORKING.  OUR OL CAN'T EXECUTE IT RELIABLY.  NO ONE IS BEING FOOLED BUT YOU. 

 

 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

We will need a new O-Line coach or nobody will get better. The coaching at the O-Line position is putrid, not one player is getting better on a yearly or weekly timetable. Castillo is garbage.

[blacklabel]

On 9/19/2018 at 12:29 PM, John from Riverside said:

Meanwhile Wyatt Teller must be thinking "WTF do I gotta do to get the coaches attn"

 

Properly execute his assignments. He struggled with the X's and O's a lot through camp with that.