Bodine New Starter at Center for Week Three at MIN

[Luka]

50 minutes ago, blacklabel said:

 

Properly execute his assignments. He struggled with the X's and O's a lot through camp with that.

As if the rest of them aren't struggling to execute their assignments...

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

That's about it.

 

 

Too simplistic.  I've been trying to tease apart the horrid run blocking with some help from other members on a couple of plays.

That's our biggest problem right now on OL IMO

Daboll (or whoever is designing the run game, but the buck stops with Daboll),  is trying to be too frickin' cute.

 

Take a look on all-22 at the run play, 1st and ten at the LAC21 with 0:34 left in the 1st Q.  It is intended to be a fake end-around HB slam.

(With me so far? Took a couple views to decide how to describe the intended play)

 

The blocking scheme starts with Groy and the R side of the line shifting R and Holmes shifting to seal off the end as though it's gonna be a run to RT.

Meanwhile, Jones comes across for the fake end-around.  Groy chips then Ducasse and Dawkins are supposed to cut block the DT and DE.  Croom at TE is (we think) supposed to pull and take out the OLB.  Defense is supposed to think "whups, NO, not run to RT, end-around!"

After all that, Shady takes the handoff and heads up the gut behind Groy - where he finds Ducasse prone body, Dawkins prone body, and the un-cut DT, DE and OLB on their feet ready to meet-n-greet him.

 

That's Shady behind Miller, who is blocking the RDE.  Groy is heading out to block, but Ducasse and Dawkins are on the turf after unsuccessful cuts and the DT Mebane is on his feet waiting for Shady.  Croom is also on the turf, hidden by DE Ingram who is about to hurdle him and close on Shady.

Here's Mebane saying "come to Papa, Shady" while Ingram and the OLB seal off the space not blockaded by Ducasse getting up

 

It's not even that Groy or Miller or anyone else is bad on the play.  It's that they can't finesse the complicated timing and nail the cut blocks reliably IMO

 

Why not try a simpler play, with say, Croom pulling to lead Shady up the gut after Groy?  It really couldn't look any worse, and I can't believe all this pointless throwing themselves to the turf is helping our OL's physique.

 

DABOLL:  ALL THIS FAKERY IS NOT WORKING.  OUR OL CAN'T EXECUTE IT RELIABLY.  NO ONE IS BEING FOOLED BUT YOU. 

 

 

 

...so then is his system far too complex?...other than Shady, quite a bit of newness on offense......isn't the OL is already struggling with Castillo's scheme?...is Daboll's scheme yet another layer?.....remember when Deadskins hired KC's former OC Al Saunders.....purported to have had a 700 PAGE playbook.......seriously?.......

Edited September 21, 2018 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Luka said:

As if the rest of them aren't struggling to execute their assignments...

 

This.  Free clue to Castillo and Daboll: if your entire OL can't execute their assignments, but were able to do so in previous years and a previous scheme, it is time to look at your scheme and maybe CHANGE THEIR ASSIGNMENTS

1 minute ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...so then is his system far too complex?...other than Shady, quite a bit of newness on offense......isn't the OL is already struggling with Castillo's scheme?...is Daboll's scheme yet another layer?.....remember when Deadskins hired KC's former OC Al Saunders.....purported to have had a 700 PAGE playbook.......seriously?.......

 

Yes, I think it's too complex.  I don't remember seeing all the cut blocks last year.  I don't know who is responsible.  All I know is on every freakin' snarl of a mess I see, if you run it in slowmo you can clearly see 1-3 OLmen on the ground.  They weren't wrestled down, they are trying to cut block and FAILing.  I have yet to see a DL or a LB on the turf, but it's easy as pie to find our OLmen rolling around, imposing additional obstacles to McCoy in his desperate quest for yardage. 

 

It doesn't seem like rocket science to me: if you have a scheme your guys can't do, change it to one they can.

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

This.  Free clue to Castillo and Daboll: if your entire OL can't execute their assignments, but were able to do so in previous years and a previous scheme, it is time to look at your scheme and maybe CHANGE THEIR ASSIGNMENTS

 

 

...if, IF I remember correctly, Schwartz was hired as DC and had a specific scheme in mind......yet he changed his scheme to fit the strengths of the personnel he had to work with..results?...pretty darn good and sign of a GOOD coach IMO.....Ditka always said, "you can have the greatest scheme in the world, but without the personnel to execute it, you're done"....TrainWrecks whined about needing HIS players to fit HIS scheme......so we set the club back two years catering to the blowhard....so is it ego or ignorance?...

[RunTheBall]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

DABOLL:  ALL THIS FAKERY IS NOT WORKING.  OUR OL CAN'T EXECUTE IT RELIABLY.  NO ONE IS BEING FOOLED BUT YOU. 

 

 

 

For what it's worth, I talked to a friend who's a former OC who now breaks down film for NFL Network and Sirius. He agrees with the above quote 100 percent. His take was that it looked like a college offense and none of that trickery or RPO stuff is fooling anyone and is hard to execute for many offensive lineman. Not saying I agree, I think more aspects of the college game will be infiltrating the NFL, but might explain our inability to run block effectively.

 

RTB

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

27 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

This.  Free clue to Castillo and Daboll: if your entire OL can't execute their assignments, but were able to do so in previous years and a previous scheme, it is time to look at your scheme and maybe CHANGE THEIR ASSIGNMENTS

 

Yes, I think it's too complex.  I don't remember seeing all the cut blocks last year.  I don't know who is responsible.  All I know is on every freakin' snarl of a mess I see, if you run it in slowmo you can clearly see 1-3 OLmen on the ground.  They weren't wrestled down, they are trying to cut block and FAILing.  I have yet to see a DL or a LB on the turf, but it's easy as pie to find our OLmen rolling around, imposing additional obstacles to McCoy in his desperate quest for yardage. 

 

It doesn't seem like rocket science to me: if you have a scheme your guys can't do, change it to one they can.

 

 

.....so then where the hell is McD in all of this?.......isn't he the OVERALL Manager?.......or because his background is defensive leaning, he gets to put his head in the sand (OR elsewhere) and defer those decisions?........NOT part of "the process" IMO......

[LabattBlue]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

This.  Free clue to Castillo and Daboll: if your entire OL can't execute their assignments, but were able to do so in previous years and a previous scheme, it is time to look at your scheme and maybe CHANGE THEIR ASSIGNMENTS

 

Yes, I think it's too complex.  I don't remember seeing all the cut blocks last year.  I don't know who is responsible.  All I know is on every freakin' snarl of a mess I see, if you run it in slowmo you can clearly see 1-3 OLmen on the ground.  They weren't wrestled down, they are trying to cut block and FAILing.  I have yet to see a DL or a LB on the turf, but it's easy as pie to find our OLmen rolling around, imposing additional obstacles to McCoy in his desperate quest for yardage. 

 

It doesn't seem like rocket science to me: if you have a scheme your guys can't do, change it to one they can.

 

If true, sounds like a coach who insists on fitting a square peg into a round hole, instead of modifying their scheme to play to the players strengths

[Happy]

Hopefully blocking scheme will be one of, if not the biggest, change to the Oline this week and going forward.  These guys just are not athletic enough to pull off zone blocking or cut blocks.  Let them go straight ahead and power block, the results might surprise and Miller might automagically turn into a good guard.

[3rdand12]

2 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

.....so then where the hell is McD in all of this?.......isn't he the OVERALL Manager?.......or because his background is defensive leaning, he gets to put his head in the sand (OR elsewhere) and defer those decisions?........NOT part of "the process" IMO......

it's a painfully slow process is all.

2 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

Hopefully blocking scheme will be one of, if not the biggest, change to the Oline this week and going forward.  These guys just are not athletic enough to pull off zone blocking or cut blocks.  Let them go straight ahead and power block, the results might surprise and Miller might automagically turn into a good guard.

can you play all defenses that way ? or should it be game to game ? It probably is their strength, power run.

 I know the answer perhaps ?
The Coach can devise ways to beat the Opposing team on Sundays.

 The trick is knowing how flexible each player is.

 Maybe shoulda learned that in camp etc.

Some players are just limited.

 Hopefully Daboll Castillo and McD can either simplify or just adapt to the lack of range with this O line.

[vincec]

15 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

Hopefully blocking scheme will be one of, if not the biggest, change to the Oline this week and going forward.  These guys just are not athletic enough to pull off zone blocking or cut blocks.  Let them go straight ahead and power block, the results might surprise and Miller might automagically turn into a good guard.

How about just running the ball more. They have thrown it on 65% of their offensive plays. Can't get into any kind of running game rhythm doing that.

[Happy]

14 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

it's a painfully slow process is all.

can you play all defenses that way ? or should it be game to game ? It probably is their strength, power run.

 I know the answer perhaps ?
The Coach can devise ways to beat the Opposing team on Sundays.

 The trick is knowing how flexible each player is.

 Maybe shoulda learned that in camp etc.

Some players are just limited.

 Hopefully Daboll Castillo and McD can either simplify or just adapt to the lack of range with this O line.

 

 My guess is McD deferred the offense and blocking schemes to Daboll and Castillo.  He's starting to see (maybe) that he needs to be (even) more involved on the offensive side, at least as a sanity check, and force a change/modification if the original plan isn't working - which it does not appear to be.  This kind of concerns me about Daboll, assuming we have been seeing his blocking scheme imposed on our OLinemen who are not built to execute it.  

[ColoradoBills]

6 minutes ago, vincec said:

How about just running the ball more. They have thrown it on 65% of their offensive plays. Can't get into any kind of running game rhythm doing that.

 

Bills started out with a run, run, sack, punt 1st possession in the Chargers game.

It was like 3rd and 10.

The run game has been anemic to say the least.

But the big reason is when a team is down by 21 points in the beginning of the 2nd quarter it kind of takes the run game out of it.

 

Josh has been pretty good on 1st down short passes for 4-6 yards.  That is one thing that is working.

There has been way too many -2   to  +2 runs.

[Happy]

7 minutes ago, vincec said:

How about just running the ball more. They have thrown it on 65% of their offensive plays. Can't get into any kind of running game rhythm doing that.

 

Yeah, I thought that was the plan going into the season - run the ball more.  Maybe that changed when Daboll saw the OLine was doing a poor job at run blocking, as Hapless pointed out in his post.  When 1-3 OLinemen whiff on their blocks, none of our RBs are going to make any headway.  Pass blocking does seem to be better, but ironically the receivers are not that good.  Bad problems to have.

[GoodHands15]

On 9/19/2018 at 6:56 PM, billsfan89 said:

 

That's another factor I didn't consider. Bodine might be able to set a lot of the protection calls reliving some pressure from Allen. 

 

 

You had me, and then you lost me.

 

i before e except after c and also there should be an e there.

Edited September 22, 2018 by GoodHands15

[ColoradoBills]

5 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

 My guess is McD deferred the offense and blocking schemes to Daboll and Castillo.  He's starting to see (maybe) that he needs to be (even) more involved on the offensive side, at least as a sanity check, and force a change/modification if the original plan isn't working - which it does not appear to be.  This kind of concerns me about Daboll, assuming we have been seeing his blocking scheme imposed on our OLinemen who are not built to execute it.  

 

I got no proof but I am starting to think that Castillo is nothing more than a "yes man" to anyone above him.

Daboll was brand new at the beginning of the season.  A blind man could see that the OL had issues.

Castillo is the OL coach along with the Run Game Coordinator.

They had to ask him about the available talent and the signing of Bodine and Newhouse.

They (Beane McDermott and Daboll) had to have asked him if he could make this unit work.

I would love to have heard the answer.

 

As to the Daboll blocking scheme I'm starting to think Hapless is right.

Though blocking schemes and changes to it is definitely above my pay grade of knowledge something has to give.

Either the talent (players) have to learn it fast or the scheme has to change.

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

What ive learned through this whole saga is those few posters who thought wood was bad, were wrong 

[Happy]

9 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I got no proof but I am starting to think that Castillo is nothing more than a "yes man" to anyone above him.

Daboll was brand new at the beginning of the season.  A blind man could see that the OL had issues.

Castillo is the OL coach along with the Run Game Coordinator.

They had to ask him about the available talent and the signing of Bodine and Newhouse.

They (Beane McDermott and Daboll) had to have asked him if he could make this unit work.

I would love to have heard the answer.

 

As to the Daboll blocking scheme I'm starting to think Hapless is right.

Though blocking schemes and changes to it is definitely above my pay grade of knowledge something has to give.

Either the talent (players) have to learn it fast or the scheme has to change.

 

 

Good post...makes sense.  The players are not learning it quick enough, so I would look for it to change.  I really doubt McD wants to go 3-13 or 0-16; even though he cautioned that the Bills would take a step back, that bad of a season is both embarrassing and a headache for a coach.  McD has to take charge at this point and force his coaches to change things up to actually fit the player's talents.

[ColoradoBills]

5 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

Good post...makes sense.  The players are not learning it quick enough, so I would look for it to change.  I really doubt McD wants to go 3-13 or 0-16; even though he cautioned that the Bills would take a step back, that bad of a season is both embarrassing and a headache for a coach.  McD has to take charge at this point and force his coaches to change things up to actually fit the player's talents.

 

I totally agree about McDermott wanting to win as many games a s possible.  This tanking talk is not in his vocabulary.

 

There is a definite problem with the OL (look at all the OL guys coming in for visits) so Beane and McD know it.

Is it a Daboll issue or a Castillo issue or is it both?  That's what I would like to know.

 

Got to give credit to the management, so far no leaks about anything going on at OBD.

[3rdand12]

1 hour ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

Yeah, I thought that was the plan going into the season - run the ball more.  Maybe that changed when Daboll saw the OLine was doing a poor job at run blocking, as Hapless pointed out in his post.  When 1-3 OLinemen whiff on their blocks, none of our RBs are going to make any headway.  Pass blocking does seem to be better, but ironically the receivers are not that good.  Bad problems to have.

seems so

 I might guess Daboll is still figuring out what little he has to work with right now.
 

maybe his is part of the test for Brian ?
how do YOU deal with a badly dealt hand on game day.
Building character the hard way. 

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=imgres&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjQg97DvM3dAhWn3YMKHTFsBBsQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pinterest.com%2Fpin%2F394627986077416994%2F&psig=AOvVaw3kXnUy-a6EuGwA6kzW_3NE&ust=1537666579546305

not sure at all about B Daboll and his new relationship with Juan Castillo.
perhaps. an just a maybe.. Mr D is already looking for a fresh young yet strong  forceful and  flexible new O Line team of Coaches. maybe TES and WRS Coaches as well.
First year in you should be making friends And seeing who is capable of executing his vision.

 he will get get his free pass this year from me. Castillos and Friends ? not so much

[skibum]

Bodine at Center and Groy at RG is probably the best they can do with what's available. Might as well give it a shot and see how it goes, because it can't get much worse. 

Edited September 22, 2018 by skibum

[26CornerBlitz]

 

 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[Boatdrinks]

On 9/21/2018 at 6:16 PM, LabattBlue said:

If true, sounds like a coach who insists on fitting a square peg into a round hole, instead of modifying their scheme to play to the players strengths

That would be Castillo. Good description. 

[JaCrispy]

On 9/21/2018 at 9:38 PM, 3rdand12 said:

seems so

 I might guess Daboll is still figuring out what little he has to work with right now.
 

maybe his is part of the test for Brian ?
how do YOU deal with a badly dealt hand on game day.
Building character the hard way. 

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=imgres&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjQg97DvM3dAhWn3YMKHTFsBBsQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pinterest.com%2Fpin%2F394627986077416994%2F&psig=AOvVaw3kXnUy-a6EuGwA6kzW_3NE&ust=1537666579546305

not sure at all about B Daboll and his new relationship with Juan Castillo.
perhaps. an just a maybe.. Mr D is already looking for a fresh young yet strong  forceful and  flexible new O Line team of Coaches. maybe TES and WRS Coaches as well.
First year in you should be making friends And seeing who is capable of executing his vision.

 he will get get his free pass this year from me. Castillos and Friends ? not so much

In addition, I don’t believe Dabol  has been able to bring in his own staff yet...they hired him I don’t recall any other new hires on offense...therefore I could see castillo being gone and a real QB coach brought in after the season

Edited September 23, 2018 by JaCrispy

[3rdand12]

1 minute ago, JaCrispy said:

In addition, I don’t believe Dabol  has been able to bring in his own staff yet...they hired him I don’t recall any other new hires on offense...therefore I could see castillo being gone and a real QB coach brought in after the season

fair post i think.

[McBean]

Bodine starting?

 

Championship

[3rdand12]

Just now, McBean said:

Bodine starting?

 

Championship

he might better call the Line play over Groy?

 and you might as well see what you paid good money for eh ?

[Formerly Allan in MD]

31 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Sad

[26CornerBlitz]

Much better OL performance today with Bodine as the Pivot.

[NewEra]

Didn’t notice if he returned after the injury.  I’m assuming he did?  I was too excited to pay attention 

[BillsFan4]

Yeah, the offense seemed to function better with Bodine at center. 

 

It looked like he was calling out/setting protections at the line/helping to identify pressure.  

I don’t know if Groy was doing that.

 

It is something Eric Wood used to do, and something that I think can be very helpful to Josh Allen. He struggles to recognize pressure, as most rookie QBs do. Having an experienced center that can him in that regard is a good thing for the entire offense, 

Edited September 24, 2018 by BillsFan4

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, NewEra said:

Didn’t notice if he returned after the injury.  I’m assuming he did?  I was too excited to pay attention 

 

He did return and he's fine.

 

 

[The Now Moment]

Written off as a bust signing already haha.  Glad to see him succeed out there.  Build on the positives.

[K-9]

7 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

He did return and he's fine.

 

 

And just in time, too. Groy got his ass handed to him, especially on that sack/fumble that Allen recovered. One of the worst plays I've ever seen a center make. Literally. 

[Watkins90]

4 minutes ago, K-9 said:

And just in time, too. Groy got his ass handed to him, especially on that sack/fumble that Allen recovered. One of the worst plays I've ever seen a center make. Literally. 

I thought the line looked the best when Groy was playing the guard spot for Ducasse. Although, I would have him replace Miller because Vlad hasn't been terrible. 

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, Watkins90 said:

I thought the line looked the best when Groy was playing the guard spot for Ducasse. Although, I would have him replace Miller because Vlad hasn't been terrible. 

 

Miller was very good today.

[Nick the Greek]

2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Miller was very good today.

Ducasse was good too. 

[Watkins90]

3 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Miller was very good today.

I'm just saying. Miller has probably been the weakest, other than Groy at center. IMO, the team looked best when Groy was playing guard. 

[26CornerBlitz]

6 hours ago, Idandria said:

Ducasse was good too. 

 

The OL was much more stable and organized with Bodine.  His ability to call out blocking assignmnents was a factor is my guess. 

[26CornerBlitz]

8 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

The OL was much more stable and organized with Bodine.  His ability to call out blocking assignmnents was a factor is my guess. 

 

Just heard Chris Brown talking on OBL about this very same thing with regard to Bodine that he attributed to his 64 games of NFL experience.