Brand J Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 I've seen too many "who cares" posts for my liking. I for one DO CARE the Bills gave up TWO 2nd round picks. Picks that had the potential to fill one of many holes - WR, OL, another LB, DL, RB. Those 2nd rounders are premium picks and the Bills caved into the Bucs demand. Would I have been upset if the two went towards drafting Rosen? Probably not as much, so the bias of not liking the player makes it sting that much more. I sincerely hope Allen defies every single metric and becomes a top echelon QB. Lord knows the Bills need a break. But then again, the Bills have had many opportunities to create their own breaks, but time and time again they piss them away... just like those two 2nd round picks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Miami may have taken him at 11. Allen seems too much like Tannehill too me. I doubt they would have wanted to go down that road with the sequel... Edited April 27, 2018 by Lurker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awwufelloff Posted April 27, 2018 Author Share Posted April 27, 2018 1 minute ago, Lurker said: Allen seems too much like Tannehill too me. I doubt they would have wanted to go down that road with the sequel... Agreed and Arizona wanted Rosen not allen. Allen would have been there at 12. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 I'd say no. It was reported AZ was trying to move up for Allen. Rosen may have went to MIA. Regardless, it seems they may not have taken Rosen at 12 even if they had stayed put and he was there. There was something there they didn't like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 2 hours ago, Logic said: No. Schefter reported that the Cardinals wanted him, and that had been reported by other draft analysts recently. I think they still would have traded up, but would have taken Allen at 10 instead of Rosen. Now...would ROSEN have been available at 12? Very possibly. I don't think Rosen would have made it past Miami. 1 hour ago, Tcali said: getting cute and trying to get a big time steal from a draft probably would have ended in disaster. they did the right thing. agreed. I think Miami thought Rosen fell into their lap and got leap frogged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 (edited) Who knows, it's possible that the cardinals wanted Allen and the word got to the Bills and traded up. Edited April 27, 2018 by Buffalo Barbarian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan692 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 It's also why the bills paid more than cards... had to outbid them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estelle Getty Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 (edited) Throw the chart out the window when your talking about getting in the top 10 for a qb. I had him as the 3rd best qb and we took the 3rd qb of the top 10. Stop acting like this kid is a bum. Mayfield and Rudolph were the fools gold of qbs, and we avoided them. Edited April 27, 2018 by Estelle Getty 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloTX Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 Just glad they didn't take Rosen, even at 12. Love the two picks today choosing players who have the chance to become GREAT, over players who are good now but keep us at 8-8 each year. Loving the future of this team. I don't give one %$@# if Buffalo sucks this year, I trust the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 3 hours ago, Buff76ers said: what happens if he and Rosen are gone at 12? Now what? Then the bills would definitely be hurting. This way, they assured themselves a future QB. Mason Rudolph would have been better than Allen by September and likely his whole career. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 They traded up to secure talent at a position of need and BPA, its refshing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptnCoke11 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 4 hours ago, Awwufelloff said: I'm almost positive he would have been. Giving up all we did to move up 5 spots was quite dumb, a side from drafting Allen over Rosen... You be one of the morons crying if they did wait and a team jumped in front of them. You’d be posting on here how stupid Bean is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xwnyer Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 4 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: More importantly...WHO CARES. They got the guy they wanted, and made the move to make sure it happened. I mean what a bunch of hypocrites this board is full of. Everyone was all about doing what ever we needed to go get our guy. Now that people don't agree with who that guy was, the Bills are suddenly dumb for trading up. People were pleading for Bills to trade 3 firsts and 2 seconds to go get Rosen at 2...a guy who lasted to the 10th pick and would have been a complete waste of picks had traded to 2 for a guy who lasted to 10. Ridiculous. I created a thread months ago saying that whomever we drafted the “fans” on this board would hate the pick. We turned 6 picks in first three rounds into 3 picks and got the LB they wanted and the QB they wanted. We did not sell the farm as so many proposed 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweats Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 Its hard to say, but the guy our FO wanted was still in play, so i can't be too pissed off that they took a chance to climb the board and grab him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 5 hours ago, Tyrod's friend said: Frankly, Arizona didn't lose their cool. By draft chart, they expended exactly the value of the 10th pick in the draft - right around 1300 points. One should probably assume that the Bucs were offered 1500 points or damned close to it by Zona - who no doubt were happy to take 1900 from Buffalo. Your statement implies that TB would have taken closer to face value from Arizona or that for some reason, without a competing bid from Buffalo, Arizona would have felt compelled to pay a premium when there were two choices at that time at QB. That doesn't make sense to me in the least. And as I've suggested elsewhere, apparently the Dolphins were so shot in the a$$ with getting Rosen that when they got the call from Oakland, and all they had to do was offer a slight premium ... that they turned Oakland down. How likely is that? You'd have a hard time convincing someone that they ever really wanted a QB. Maybe draft analysts wanted them to want Rosen. But the minute Oakland passed on Minkah Fitzgerald, Rosen became an injured QB and Allen an inaccurate one. Yes because at that point there was only 1 team bidding - so they were not competing against another team. What we do not yet know is how teams had them rated, but the Cards did not have a ton of ammo - so if the Bills felt Allen was the guy and had him rated significantly higher than Rosen- great go get him. It sounds like the cards had Allen rated higher also and tried, but maybe had them closer. If we don’t trade up - you have TB sitting there to take another defensive player - a likely scenario is taking either Smith or Fitzpatrick - with Chicago taking the other - so the question is Miami sat still because they had a choice of Rosen or Fitzpatrick going to them because of the trade ups. Everything changes if the Bills decide to stay put - they may get Rosen or they may get shut out and based upon how they acted Rosen was not their pick - so either would have been bad. Look - I am on record as saying Allen was not the QB I wanted - I love watching Rosen play, but these guys look at so much more and if they think Allen is who they want based on talent and personality- then I would rather they get him and go all in than taking someone they are less happy with. I would much prefer they get their guy than not get a QB - the potential was there that if they wait they lose out and therefore they went up to get their guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thandGoal Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 6 hours ago, Awwufelloff said: I'm almost positive he would have been. Giving up all we did to move up 5 spots was quite dumb, a side from drafting Allen over Rosen... Allen would have went to the Cardinals at 10 and rosen to the dolphins at 11--- we would have been stuck with mason rudolph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, 4thandGoal said: Allen would have went to the Cardinals at 10 and rosen to the dolphins at 11--- we would have been stuck with mason rudolph this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrod's friend Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 6 hours ago, Estelle Getty said: Throw the chart out the window when your talking about getting in the top 10 for a qb. I had him as the 3rd best qb and we took the 3rd qb of the top 10. Stop acting like this kid is a bum. Mayfield and Rudolph were the fools gold of qbs, and we avoided them. Really??? Arizona paid EXACTLY the value chart to get to ... NUMBER 10 TO TAKE A QB. Stop being an apologist for a novice GM that got taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 Nobody knows if Allen would have been there at 12. Beane paid a stiff price to move up to 7 to get his guy, and as one of the talking heads statted yesterday morning when talking about moving up to draft a QB... If the QB ends up being successful, everyone forgets what you gave up to select him. If the QB fails, the GM probably loses his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stokes84 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 Wyoming's OC was on WGR and let it slip that Buffalo was "the one team invested in Josh." That quote bothered me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgrochester55 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 (edited) Clearly the answer is no. Teams do not give up draft picks for fun. There was a market for Allen and Rosen, plus the chance of Miami picking them. We needed to trade up to get someone. I think the front offices in the NFL know a little more about the draft than the sudden outbreak of amateur keyboard analysts that come out of the woodwork after draft day? Was Allen the right guy? I'm worried about that, it remains to be seen. We all knew coming in that Buffalo needed to trade up and give up picks to get one of the top quarterbacks in this class. I do not know why this is such a huge surprise to everyone. Edited April 27, 2018 by dgrochester55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buff76ers Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 14 hours ago, BullBuchanan said: Mason Rudolph would have been better than Allen by September and likely his whole career. That’s weird, I didn’t hear Rudolph’s name last night. Did you? For him being so much better I would have figured he would be a 1st round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 20 minutes ago, Buff76ers said: That’s weird, I didn’t hear Rudolph’s name last night. Did you? For him being so much better I would have figured he would be a 1st round pick. You could say the same thing about Carr, Wilson, and Cousins. Hindsight is weird, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 (edited) Shefter literally came live on air, after the Cardinals pick, and said the Cardinals had tried trading up for Allen but were outbid by Buffalo. Id say that’s about a 100% guarantee that Allen wouldn’t be there at 12. Edited April 27, 2018 by SCBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 11 hours ago, 4thandGoal said: Allen would have went to the Cardinals at 10 and rosen to the dolphins at 11--- we would have been stuck with mason rudolph That was the fear Although I was also a Lamar Jackson fan.....but if Beane had identified HIS guy....then go GET HIM and that is what he did 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 Of we would’ve waited and AZ made the trade and Allen was taken by the Bills, this would’ve been the most epically fail draft ever imo. They wanted someone and they got that someone. Coulda shoulda woulda is garbaggio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraBills Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 He wouldn't have been there at 12 and I think he was their #2 QB so rather than losing out on him they pulled the trigger. There was nothing they could do to get their #1 guy, namely Darnold. When thinking about it in that sense, I'm not too mad with it because Allen was most likely their #2 and they couldn't do anything about Darnold, especially when Cleveland took Mayfield #1. Once that happened you knew Darnold was going to the Jets. And just like many people said about a month ago, the Giants are not trading #2 for anything and it showed last night. Gettleman had to chance to take Darnold and didn't so that tells me he wasn't trading out regardless. He took his guy and didn't take a chance of losing out on him. I get mad initially but it's starting to sink in. These are the cards we've been dealt. Just hope we can play the best hand we can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanForever19 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 Nope. He was long reported as Arizona's 1st choice. Seeing what we paid and what they paid for 10 says to me that we were competing with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JinxedBill1 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 (edited) What gets me is that it seems the giants gave the bills the option to get to 2 but it cost too much. So in a few years we will have to revisit if Allen and what we get today is greater than Darnold and limited picks for the best few years. Plus Darnold is with the Jets. Darnold > Allen, edmounds, picks today and next year or Allen, edmounds, picks today and next year > Darnold. Edited April 27, 2018 by JinxedBill1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hsker4life Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 (edited) Schefter is pretty good at what he does, and he claims Arizona wanted Allen over Rosen. Regardless, if you think you have your franchise QB, you don't let giving up two 2nd round picks stop you from ensuring you get him. Edited April 27, 2018 by Hsker4life 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmel Corn Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 I also doubt he would have been there. Between AZ and Miami, they would have grabbed both Josh's before 12. Most Miami fans doubt that Tannehill can take them to a championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meistersinger Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 As for the first part of the question, I do not believe Allen would have been there at 12 if we just stayed put. It's possible Rosen might have been, since Arizona might have traded up and taken Allen leaving Rosen. It's also possible that teams like New England or New Orleans might have traded up to 10 or 11, but couldn't put together enough to get to 7, so as the guy keeps falling, more teams are now willing to pay the smaller price it takes to move up and get him. Or possibly Miami liked Allen but didn't like Rosen - if Miami offered their 1 and 2 to TB, both picks being better than our 1 and 2, we would obviously have to beat that price to make the deal. Maybe Miami didn't make that offer but TB told us they did - then Beane got snookered. Or maybe TB heard that this was the offer we gave to Denver, so if we were willing to give up that much for Allen to Denver, why not give the same thing to TB for Allen? Did we overpay by giving up 2 second rounders? I think that is a yes, but some times you have to do that. A lot depends on how enthusiastic they were for Allen. These were the possible options the Bills could have offered: (point values come from a commonly referenced trade chart) Both firsts - Pick 12 for 1200 points, pick 22 for 780 points, total of 1980 1 first plus 2 seconds - Pick 12 for 1200, pick 53 for 370, pick 56 for 340 - total of 1910 1 first plus 1 second plus 1 third - Pick 12 for 1200, pick 53 for 370, pick 65 for 265 - total of 1835 1 first plus 1 second - Pick 12 for 1200, pick 53 for 270 - total of 1570 - this would have been fair value at this point. Here are the points needed for various picks 4 - 1800 points 5 - 1700 points 6 - 1600 points 7 - 1500 points It has been reported that the Bills had an agreement with both the Browns and the Broncos for a deal - at a minimum, that would have required at least our first pick in each of the first, second and third rounds to get Cleveland to say yes. I doubt Cleveland would have considered any deal that did not include both firsts - they already have a huge pile of picks, so no need to stockpile more in the later rounds. Basically, I think Beane had arrived at the conclusion that he would be willing to give up 1 first and both seconds to Denver in order to get Allen. Once he decided he would give up that much for Allen, don't think of it as trading for a "pick" but trading for a "player". Presumably, we would not have given up that much for any other elite player on the board like Chubb or Barkley, even though the point value would have been the same. The Bills need for a QB, coupled with the Bills determination that they liked Allen a lot more than Rosen, forced them to pay up. And it's possible they liked Allen better than any QB, including Mayfield and Darnold - neither of whom are sure-fire can't-miss prospects either. So if they were really getting the best QB in a QB rich draft, then that would be a small price to pay. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 20 hours ago, Awwufelloff said: I'm almost positive he would have been. Giving up all we did to move up 5 spots was quite dumb, a side from drafting Allen over Rosen... no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 20 hours ago, Logic said: No. Schefter reported that the Cardinals wanted him, and that had been reported by other draft analysts recently. I think they still would have traded up, but would have taken Allen at 10 instead of Rosen. Now...would ROSEN have been available at 12? Very possibly. I was so happy to see if one of them would have fallen to 12. I don''t know why the Cards would want Allen so bad, Rosen and Fitz seem like the perfect pairing. Accuracy to a guy that finds the perfect spot every play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 (edited) 21 hours ago, Awwufelloff said: I'm almost positive he would have been. Giving up all we did to move up 5 spots was quite dumb, a side from drafting Allen over Rosen... If you're almost positive, it must be the truth. That's the beauty of saying something else should have happened. Edited April 28, 2018 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billspro Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 20 hours ago, Success said: Doubt it. They did the right thing - if you like a qb, you don’t risk waiting. Still can’t believe they did it and kept their other 1st rounder. Very true, you don’t mess around if you believe in a guy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceman_16 Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehfeuh57 Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 It was amazing enough he dropped to 7, and your talking about 12?! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 22 hours ago, Awwufelloff said: I'm almost positive he would have been. Giving up all we did to move up 5 spots was quite dumb, a side from drafting Allen over Rosen... Maybe, maybe not. I personally don’t think he would have been there at #12. And, if you have one guy above the others you don’t chance it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QB12 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Yes, he would have still been there for the taking at the 12th pick if the Bills didn't move up to take him before then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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