Would Allen have been there at 12?

[Awwufelloff]

I'm almost positive he would have been. Giving up all we did to move up 5 spots was quite dumb, a side from drafting Allen over Rosen...

[Patrick Duffy]

yes

[26CornerBlitz]

Who knows.

[Logic]

No. Schefter reported that the Cardinals wanted him, and that had been reported by other draft analysts recently. I think they still would have traded up, but would have taken Allen at 10 instead of Rosen.

Now...would ROSEN have been available at 12? Very possibly.

[John from Riverside]

There is really no way of knowing if the cards had Alan as their next top available QB and traded up for him or even the dolphins might have moved up there’s just no way of knowing bean Did what everyone wanted him to do beast decisive and do what it takes to get his guy

[Big C]

3 minutes ago, Logic said:

No. Schefter reported that the Cardinals wanted him, and that had been reported by other draft analysts recently. I think they still would have traded up, but would have taken Allen at 10 instead of Rosen.

Now...would ROSEN have been available at 12? Very possibly.

 

Yup. But also possible that Miami would have went QB instead if one of those guys were there. 

[Doc Brown]

 

4 minutes ago, Logic said:

No. Schefter reported that the Cardinals wanted him, and that had been reported by other draft analysts recently. I think they still would have traded up, but would have taken Allen at 10 instead of Rosen.

Now...would ROSEN have been available at 12? Very possibly.

What I also wonder is what we would've had to give up to Denver to take Allen as we apparently had a deal with them as long as Chubb was taken.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Doc Brown

[Big C]

1 minute ago, Doc Brown said:

 

What I also wonder is what we would've had to give up to Denver to take Allen as we apparently had a deal with them as long as Chubbs was taken.

 

Truly a gift from the Browns. 

[Doc Brown]

1 minute ago, Big C said:

 

Truly a gift from the Browns. 

A better gift would've been for them to draft Allen at #1.

[MAJBobby]

9 minutes ago, Awwufelloff said:

I'm almost positive he would have been. Giving up all we did to move up 5 spots was quite dumb, a side from drafting Allen over Rosen...

 

No it was reported AZ tried to get into 7 for him. 

[Tyrod's friend]

5 minutes ago, Logic said:

No. Schefter reported that the Cardinals wanted him, and that had been reported by other draft analysts recently. I think they still would have traded up, but would have taken Allen at 10 instead of Rosen.

Now...would ROSEN have been available at 12? Very possibly.

Apparently the extent of their desire Arizona's desire was 1300 points. I think both QBs would have been waiting for you at 12.

But what's the difference? It is clear that the Bills wanted this guy and didn't want to take the chance that someone else would take him. I might not like the result but you have to applaud them for not wanting the guy to get away. The same thing that - in my mind - lead them to overpaying for Allen landed them what I felt was a top 5 talent in Edmunds. Knife cuts both ways.

[26CornerBlitz]

10 minutes ago, Logic said:

No. Schefter reported that the Cardinals wanted him, and that had been reported by other draft analysts recently. I think they still would have traded up, but would have taken Allen at 10 instead of Rosen.

Now...would ROSEN have been available at 12? Very possibly.

 

Miami may have taken him at 11. 

[Tyrod's friend]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Miami may have taken him at 11. 

 

Somehow the thought of Miami fielding that call from Oakland and saying no thanks sticks in my mind. After all Rosen was the guy they were supposed to be shot in the a$$ over and they didn't bust a move on him either. 

 

[Alphadawg7]

More importantly...WHO CARES.  They got the guy they wanted, and made the move to make sure it happened.

 

I mean what a bunch of hypocrites this board is full of.  Everyone was all about doing what ever we needed to go get our guy.  Now that people don't agree with who that guy was, the Bills are suddenly dumb for trading up.  People were pleading for Bills to trade 3 firsts and 2 seconds to go get Rosen at 2...a guy who lasted to the 10th pick and would have been a complete waste of picks had traded to 2 for a guy who lasted to 10.

 

Ridiculous.  

[Success]

Doubt it.  They did the right thing - if you like a qb, you don’t risk waiting.

 

Still can’t believe they did it and kept their other 1st rounder.

[Buff76ers]

what happens if he and Rosen are gone at 12? Now what? Then the bills would definitely be hurting. This way, they assured themselves a future QB. 

[GunnerBill]

I actually agree with Alpha here... who cares?

 

I don't hate the process on Allen at all. They did a good job holding fire and paying a reasonable price. I hate the evaluation. But if you think he is your QB and he is there at #7 and you have a deal that makes sense you do the deal and take your guy. 

[zoid8jr]

We kept all firsts and got our guy.  He will embody Buffalo and we are going to love him and he has a cannon to boot.  Stop complaining everyone.  The Edmunds pick was over the top.  We needed an athlete linebacker and got him.  We won the draft...Cleveland however, yikes.

[Doc Brown]

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

More importantly...WHO CARES.  They got the guy they wanted, and made the move to make sure it happened.

 

I mean what a bunch of hypocrites this board is full of.  Everyone was all about doing what ever we needed to go get our guy.  Now that people don't agree with who that guy was, the Bills are suddenly dumb for trading up.  People were pleading for Bills to trade 3 firsts and 2 seconds to go get Rosen at 2...a guy who lasted to the 10th pick and would have been a complete waste of picks had traded to 2 for a guy who lasted to 10.

 

Ridiculous.  

Most people on this board had Allen as a bust so I don't see any hypocrisy here.

[Alphadawg7]

Just now, Doc Brown said:

Most people on this board had Allen as a bust so I don't see any hypocrisy here.

 

Well many people here had Tebow as a must draft.  Many people here felt Geno Smith was a must draft.  Many people here felt Watson would be a bust.  Many people here thought Wilson was too small.  

 

People can feel whatever they want, they are almost always wrong.  The best minds in NFL history are wrong more than they are right.  Fans have an even worse batting average.  Yet all they will ever remind you of is the occasional time their guess was right while conveniently leaving out the 1000 players they were wrong about.  

 

So to spend so much energy tonight wallowing in the failures of a player that haven't happened yet seems like a waste of time.  Its over...just be excited we got a guy with a ton of upside and lets see what he does before we condemn him.  

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Most people on this board had Allen as a bust so I don't see any hypocrisy here.

 

Agree. It would be hypocrisy to change one's mind just because the Bills took him. 

 

But I still don't think it matters in the context of THIS question. Should they have traded up? If they thought he was their guy, yes absolutely. I hate the evaluation not the move. 

[Ol Dirty B]

22 minutes ago, Tyrod's friend said:

Apparently the extent of their desire Arizona's desire was 1300 points. I think both QBs would have been waiting for you at 12.

But what's the difference? It is clear that the Bills wanted this guy and didn't want to take the chance that someone else would take him. I might not like the result but you have to applaud them for not wanting the guy to get away. The same thing that - in my mind - lead them to overpaying for Allen landed them what I felt was a top 5 talent in Edmunds. Knife cuts both ways.

 

I don't quite understand this. AZ still goes up, gets Allen if you wait.

 

Or do you think they'd figure Miami will pass on both, bills take one and they are happy with either that falls to them at 15?

 

Edited April 27, 2018 by Ol Dirty B

[KD in CA]

Maybe, maybe not.  The point is, the Bills couldn't take the risk of coming away with nothing.

 

They played it right by not moving up higher.  They waited just long enough.

[Doc Brown]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Agree. It would be hypocrisy to change one's mind just because the Bills took him. 

 

But I still don't think it matters in the context of THIS question. Should they have traded up? If they thought he was their guy, yes absolutely. I hate the evaluation not the move. 

The question was would he have been there at #12 and based on Schefter's reporting he wouldn't have been.  So, I agree that if they think he's their franchise guy you have to pull the trigger at a position as important as QB.  I just hate the pick.

[Magox]

12 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

More importantly...WHO CARES.  They got the guy they wanted, and made the move to make sure it happened.

 

I mean what a bunch of hypocrites this board is full of.  Everyone was all about doing what ever we needed to go get our guy.  Now that people don't agree with who that guy was, the Bills are suddenly dumb for trading up.  People were pleading for Bills to trade 3 firsts and 2 seconds to go get Rosen at 2...a guy who lasted to the 10th pick and would have been a complete waste of picks had traded to 2 for a guy who lasted to 10.

 

Ridiculous.  

 

Exactly!   This is who they wanted, this was their guy.   They didn't get the consolation prize and settled on their pick.  They went, traded up and got their guy.   This argument is almost, not quite as silly as Beane's main criteria for selecting Allen because he can throw in the snow.  Our fans on this board are a bunch of nincompoops. 

[PrimeTime101]

No way.. Miami would of said "Thank You"

[Boatdrinks]

15 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Most people on this board had Allen as a bust so I don't see any hypocrisy here.

I think the hypocrisy he's referring to is regarding the strategy. Not the player. We as fans can not like the pick or whatever, but Beane probably played it as well as possible. I doubt there'd be much outcry if they had done the same thing and took Rosen . People would be giving Beane the key to the city . 

Edited April 27, 2018 by Boatdrinks

[Doc Brown]

Just now, Boatdrinks said:

I think the hypocrisy he's referring to is regarding the strategy. Not the player. We as fans can not let me the pick or whatever, but Beane probably played it as well as possible. I doubt there'd be much outcry if they had done the same thing and took Rosen . People would be giving Beane the key to the city . 

The key to the city?  I would've given him my first born daughter.

[Tcali]

getting cute and trying to get a big time steal from a draft probably would have ended in disaster. they did the right thing.

[Tyrod's friend]

8 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

I don't quite understand this. AZ still goes up, gets Allen if you wait.

 

Or do you think they'd figure Miami will pass on both, bills take one and they are happy with either that falls to them at 15?

 

Frankly, I meant to say either one of them would have been available at 12. 

I just don't think a QB was a priority for Miami at 11. They may well take one tomorrow or on the weekend, but they must have received a call from Oakland and told them they weren't interested. 

[Rochesterfan]

42 minutes ago, Awwufelloff said:

I'm almost positive he would have been. Giving up all we did to move up 5 spots was quite dumb, a side from drafting Allen over Rosen...

 

 

Based on repots - nope - Arizona would of taken him at 7 instead of the Bills.

 

Then the question is would the Bills have moved up for Rosen or does he get picked by Miami - where the ESPN guys were predicting him to go before the trades.

 

So the real question is how do you feel if we stayed and 12 and got no QB and both the Jets and Dolphins got 2 of the top 4 QBs?

[Tcali]

3 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

 

Based on repots - nope - Arizona would of taken him at 7 instead of the Bills.

 

Then the question is would the Bills have moved up for Rosen or does he get picked by Miami - where the ESPN guys were predicting him to go before the trades.

 

So the real question is how do you feel if we stayed and 12 and got no QB and both the Jets and Dolphins got 2 of the top 4 QBs?

right on......all this 20/20 fools hindsight woulda been a disaster. how do you spell concussion>?

[Fadingpain]

45 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

A better gift would've been for them to draft Allen at #1.

AMEN TO THIS!
 

Honestly, I won't give the Bills too much grief about the trade up.

 

We had to come home with a QB and it's possible Allen/Rosen would not be available at 12.  They had to make sure we got one of them and the move up did that.  

 

Staying at 12 and not having any of the big name guys available is a contingency that would not have been acceptable, so as I say, I understand why the urgency to move up a bit and do the trade with Tampa.

 

 

Edited April 27, 2018 by Fadingpain

[Tyrod's friend]

9 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

No way.. Miami would of said "Thank You"

 

why?

The Dolphins certainly took a call from Oakland at 10, with Arizona on the other line. Which means they declined an opportunity to take a QB. It's not like the opportunity wasn't there.

Miami took what some analysts felt was the 5th best player in the draft and to that point only the second DB off the board. Their choice was a blue chip prospect or someone that was going to sit on the bench at QB that frankly had issues. Miami taking a QB in the first was a mirage - just like it was for New England,  and for the Giants.



 

[LABILLBACKER]

51 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

There is really no way of knowing if the cards had Alan as their next top available QB and traded up for him or even the dolphins might have moved up there’s just no way of knowing bean Did what everyone wanted him to do beast decisive and do what it takes to get his guy

If Rosen turns out to be the better qb I will lose my mind....

[John from Riverside]

I won’t like it either there is just a strong possibility that the injuries he is taking in college yet amplified in the NFL we will have to wait and see how it plays out

[MarlinTheMagician]

Nope - both Shefter and Rapport reported that Cards wanted him.  They settled for Rosen.  We did the right thing, went up and got our guy.  Plus, as another poster insightfully put it: WHO CARES.  Highest drafted Bills QB ever - this management goes for what it wants (Allen, Edmunds, Zay, Dawkins), and it is so refreshing.

[PrimeTime101]

3 minutes ago, Tyrod's friend said:

 

why?

The Dolphins certainly took a call from Oakland at 10, with Arizona on the other line. Which means they declined an opportunity to take a QB. It's not like the opportunity wasn't there.

Miami took what some analysts felt was the 5th best player in the draft and to that point only the second DB off the board. Their choice was a blue chip prospect or someone that was going to sit on the bench at QB that frankly had issues. Miami taking a QB in the first was a mirage - just like it was for New England,  and for the Giants.
 

 

Why not? Do they have a potential Franchise QB? nope.

 

how do you no Miami couldn't get a deal done to trade to 10, 7, 6?

 

I think if one of them dropped to them.. THEY take it.

[Tyrod's friend]

10 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

 

Based on repots - nope - Arizona would of taken him at 7 instead of the Bills.

 

Then the question is would the Bills have moved up for Rosen or does he get picked by Miami - where the ESPN guys were predicting him to go before the trades.

 

So the real question is how do you feel if we stayed and 12 and got no QB and both the Jets and Dolphins got 2 of the top 4 QBs?

Frankly, Arizona didn't lose their cool. By draft chart, they expended exactly the value of the 10th pick in the draft - right around 1300 points. One should probably assume that the Bucs were offered 1500 points or damned close to it by Zona - who no doubt were happy to take 1900 from Buffalo. 

Your statement implies that TB would have taken closer to face value from Arizona or that for some reason, without a competing bid from Buffalo, Arizona would have felt compelled to pay a premium when there were two choices at that time at QB. That doesn't make sense to me in the least.

And as I've suggested elsewhere, apparently the Dolphins were so shot in the a$$ with getting Rosen that when they got the call from Oakland, and all they had to do was offer a slight premium ... that they turned Oakland down. How likely is that? You'd have a hard time convincing someone that they ever really wanted a QB. Maybe draft analysts wanted them to want Rosen. But the minute Oakland passed on Minkah Fitzgerald, Rosen became an injured QB and Allen an inaccurate one. 
 

[Tyrod's friend]

24 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

 

Why not? Do they have a potential Franchise QB? nope.

 

how do you no Miami couldn't get a deal done to trade to 10, 7, 6?

 

I think if one of them dropped to them.. THEY take it.

Because they valued Minkah Fitzgerald more. A lot more, as the mattress guy says.

Not any one of the QBs, but  presumably THE ONE they wanted was there for the taking at 10. They CERTAINLY took a call from Oakland, and the offer Oakland took was 1300 Draft Value points - exactly the required amount for the trade to be a draw. But in taking the call, Miami also knew with certainty that Minkah would fall directly into their laps. 

It's just game theory. Would they have taken Rosen if Oakland hadn't made the trade, and Oakland had taken Minkah Fitzgerald? Maybe. Not enough information to say so; Miami might have just taken Vita. But based on what we can presume what happened (a call from Oakland), and what we knew what happened (Oakland taking frankly a ****ty offer), I think it's safe to say Miami just had what they felt was a Pro Bowl S as a better bet than a whiny Cali QB. 

Edited April 27, 2018 by Tyrod's friend