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Stephon Gilmore is Trending

Max Fischer

By Max Fischer
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billsfan89 All Pro

billsfan89

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He has been ugly this season. Bills made the right move to not overpay for him, granted I thought he was a pretty solid corner in his time here but far too up and down to make him the 8th highest paid corner in the league when realistically he played somewhere in the range of the 22nd to 32nd best corner in the league in his time here. Tre has been a stud far better than anyone could project so the Bills not only went with the cheaper option but they went with the better option.

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The Dean Hall of Famer

The Dean

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Yeah, it's been a problem for a few years. It's been talked about pretty consistently on this board; by far his biggest issue. Though IMO it's never kept him from being a very good player.

 

It has, however, kept him from being the best he's capable of being.

 

 

This is my take, as well.

 

But there is something I don't quite get. Why all the Gilmore hate? I get reveling in his failure because he plays for the Pats*, but this seems to be something more. Was he a bad guy here? Did he shame the Bills on the way out? And I'm not even talking about the posts that say "He sucked from day one with the Bills" (or things of that nature), because I just write off those comments to stupidity. But there seems to be something that is driving real hate toward him, and I can't figure out what it is.

 

If it's just about the $$, then Bills fans should LOVE the fact he's getting it elsewhere (especially from the Pats*).

 

Fred Smerlas s#it all over Buffalo (the city), the Bills and their fans, yet everyone seemed to love him after he left (and to this day, it seems).

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Boatdrinks Hall of Famer

Boatdrinks

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This is my take, as well.

 

But there is something I don't quite get. Why all the Gilmore hate? I get reveling in his failure because he plays for the Pats*, but this seems to be something more. Was he a bad guy here? Did he shame the Bills on the way out? And I'm not even talking about the posts that say "He sucked from day one with the Bills" (or things of that nature), because I just write off those comments to stupidity. But there seems to be something that is driving real hate toward him, and I can't figure out what it is.

 

If it's just about the $$, then Bills fans should LOVE the fact he's getting it elsewhere (especially from the Pats*).

 

Fred Smerlas s#it all over Buffalo (the city), the Bills and their fans, yet everyone seemed to love him after he left (and to this day, it seems).

I can't speak for anyone else , but there are a few factors here. The largest of which is that he wasn't interested in doing the dirty work such as tackling and run support. He was quick to point at others when beat, took penalties and seemed aloof. Just not a guy that's going to endear himself to a fan base. And he wasn't a great player, which fans want at his draft spot. Just a theory. Some throw shade his way for pouting when the Bills drafted him but I can't imagine he held that grudge for 5 years.

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Max Fischer Veteran

Max Fischer

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I can't speak for anyone else , but there are a few factors here. The largest of which is that he wasn't interested in doing the dirty work such as tackling and run support. He was quick to point at others when beat, took penalties and seemed aloof. Just not a guy that's going to endear himself to a fan base. And he wasn't a great player, which fans want at his draft spot. Just a theory. Some throw shade his way for pouting when the Bills drafted him but I can't imagine he held that grudge for 5 years.

My take as well. Never struck me as a team player who was interested in doing what it took to win. Like many, perhaps constant coaching changes stunted his growth but he lack consistency in all aspects of the game. Positioning, instincts, etc.

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thebandit27 Hall of Famer

thebandit27

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This is my take, as well.

 

But there is something I don't quite get. Why all the Gilmore hate? I get reveling in his failure because he plays for the Pats*, but this seems to be something more. Was he a bad guy here? Did he shame the Bills on the way out? And I'm not even talking about the posts that say "He sucked from day one with the Bills" (or things of that nature), because I just write off those comments to stupidity. But there seems to be something that is driving real hate toward him, and I can't figure out what it is.

 

If it's just about the $$, then Bills fans should LOVE the fact he's getting it elsewhere (especially from the Pats*).

 

Fred Smerlas s#it all over Buffalo (the city), the Bills and their fans, yet everyone seemed to love him after he left (and to this day, it seems).

 

Not sure Dean.

 

I think a lot of it has to do with that he was a high draft pick during a regime that took power in the latter years of the current drought, claimed they were going to bring change, and never produced the results on the field.

 

The "he's always sucked" comments are rightly ignored; they have zero basis in fact; it's a purely emotional argument that cannot, in any way whatsoever, be supported by any real data.

 

As for yesterday, what a cluster NE's defense is looking like right now. I'm not a big Rodney Harrison fan (mostly because he's a proven cheater and nobody appears to care about that at all), but he's right when he says that there's clearly huge communication issues. I mean, just look at the Whittaker TD yesterday:

 

 

Gilmore is calling out a zone swap when McCaffrey goes in motion, McCourty looks to be calling for a man-pass to Gilmore (but he ends up following McCaffrey anyway), and Kyle Van Noy seems to think he's got the motion back in man coverage as well.

 

So I ask myself: how can 3 different guys think that 3 different things are going on in the same defense? Gilmore had a lousy game yesterday, but the above issues are systemic in nature.

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PromoTheRobot Hall of Famer

PromoTheRobot

Posted
Posted

 

 

This is my take, as well.

 

But there is something I don't quite get. Why all the Gilmore hate? I get reveling in his failure because he plays for the Pats*, but this seems to be something more. Was he a bad guy here? Did he shame the Bills on the way out? And I'm not even talking about the posts that say "He sucked from day one with the Bills" (or things of that nature), because I just write off those comments to stupidity. But there seems to be something that is driving real hate toward him, and I can't figure out what it is.

 

If it's just about the $$, then Bills fans should LOVE the fact he's getting it elsewhere (especially from the Pats*).

 

Fred Smerlas s#it all over Buffalo (the city), the Bills and their fans, yet everyone seemed to love him after he left (and to this day, it seems).

Actually I hate Fat Freddie for the reasons you stated.

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CommonCents All Pro

CommonCents

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Not sure Dean.

 

I think a lot of it has to do with that he was a high draft pick during a regime that took power in the latter years of the current drought, claimed they were going to bring change, and never produced the results on the field.

 

The "he's always sucked" comments are rightly ignored; they have zero basis in fact; it's a purely emotional argument that cannot, in any way whatsoever, be supported by any real data.

 

As for yesterday, what a cluster NE's defense is looking like right now. I'm not a big Rodney Harrison fan (mostly because he's a proven cheater and nobody appears to care about that at all), but he's right when he says that there's clearly huge communication issues. I mean, just look at the Whittaker TD yesterday:

 

 

Gilmore is calling out a zone swap when McCaffrey goes in motion, McCourty looks to be calling for a man-pass to Gilmore (but he ends up following McCaffrey anyway), and Kyle Van Noy seems to think he's got the motion back in man coverage as well.

 

So I ask myself: how can 3 different guys think that 3 different things are going on in the same defense? Gilmore had a lousy game yesterday, but the above issues are systemic in nature.

They swapped Logan Ryan out and put Gilmore into a ready made secondary. You can defend him to the end of the world but the same "communication issues" that plagued the Bills are now a big problem in NE.

 

Gilmore is getting fried over here by all the local guys who spend time with the actual team. Why was he benched?

 

I'm glad McBeane isn't blinded by these "stats" and is getting some real football players in here. It's a lot more enjoyable watching guys who play together and go full speed 100 percent of the time.

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bigduke6 Veteran

bigduke6

Posted
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so Gilmore appears to not be worth the money, exactly why OBD waived bye bye to him. Hes a serviceable starting CB in this league, just isnt worth the cash he wanted. NFL is a business. When this team makes business moves people go crazy. OMG, we let our (insert half ways decent player who wants huge $$$$ cuz he has leverage over a team that seems desperate) best player goooo!

 

Clements

Byrd

Gillmore

etc

etc

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thebandit27 Hall of Famer

thebandit27

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They swapped Logan Ryan out and put Gilmore into a ready made secondary. You can defend him to the end of the world but the same "communication issues" that plagued the Bills are now a big problem in NE.

 

Gilmore is getting fried over here by all the local guys who spend time with the actual team. Why was he benched?

 

I'm glad McBeane isn't blinded by these "stats" and is getting some real football players in here. It's a lot more enjoyable watching guys who play together and go full speed 100 percent of the time.

 

Wait, are you really asking why he got benched? Anyone can answer that quite easily: because he had an awful game. The two catches that he allowed were killers, and his two penalties were both unnecessary and poorly-timed. Can't show those kinds of lapses and expect to float on a Belichick-coached team.

 

You can keep making the Gilmore discussion about "stats" (which only you seem to be arguing), but you're missing the forest for the trees. There's absolutely no fact-based argument that Gilmore "has always sucked"...it's purely emotional.

 

The communication issues that plagued Rex's Bills didn't have much of an impact on Gilmore (or Darby) in 2015, when they both played very good football. Both regressed a bit in 2016, though Gilmore made the pro bowl.

 

And again, it's not about defending Gilmore, though you (and a few others) seem to always want to make it about that. I call it like I see it; when a guy plays well, I'm going to say so...when a guy plays poorly, I'm going to say so. I do not have an agenda, unlike folks that want to claim that Gilmore "has always sucked"--that's an agenda-driven argument.

 

Now, on the play above--which is what you most-recently responded to--it's very clear that 3 guys (Gilmore, McCourty, Van Noy) are all doing something different. Are you really trying to tell me that it's Gilmore's fault that 3 guys at different positions are all playing a different coverage? There's no way you think that; that, good sir, is a coaching issue.

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CommonCents All Pro

CommonCents

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

Wait, are you really asking why he got benched? Anyone can answer that quite easily: because he had an awful game. The two catches that he allowed were killers, and his two penalties were both unnecessary and poorly-timed. Can't show those kinds of lapses and expect to float on a Belichick-coached team.

 

You can keep making the Gilmore discussion about "stats" (which only you seem to be arguing), but you're missing the forest for the trees. There's absolutely no fact-based argument that Gilmore "has always sucked"...it's purely emotional.

 

The communication issues that plagued Rex's Bills didn't have much of an impact on Gilmore (or Darby) in 2015, when they both played very good football. Both regressed a bit in 2016, though Gilmore made the pro bowl.

 

And again, it's not about defending Gilmore, though you (and a few others) seem to always want to make it about that. I call it like I see it; when a guy plays well, I'm going to say so...when a guy plays poorly, I'm going to say so. I do not have an agenda, unlike folks that want to claim that Gilmore "has always sucked"--that's an agenda-driven argument.

 

Now, on the play above--which is what you most-recently responded to--it's very clear that 3 guys (Gilmore, McCourty, Van Noy) are all doing something different. Are you really trying to tell me that it's Gilmore's fault that 3 guys at different positions are all playing a different coverage? There's no way you think that; that, good sir, is a coaching issue.

Gross misjudgment by BB on that signing and it didn't take

long for it to show itself. Jeff Howe had a good point this morning, days before FA opened the Patriots were ridiculing teams for signing high priced FA's the opening day of FA without ever meeting with them or putting them infront of a series of play calls and seeing how they would adjust.

 

Days later FA opened and BB and the Pats made this same mistake with Gilmore. I said it at the time and I will say it again if they got Bouye things would have been much worse for us Bills fans. I'm very interested in seeing how Gilmore responds this week, he might be the next David Price for the Boston media and my guess is he melts just as fast.

 

He is a better athlete than Logan Ryan but Ryan was a better fit opposite Butler. Now they have a pissed off Butler, an always confused Gilmore, and no pass rush. Heck, just from looking at the predraft hype for Gilmore and the lack there of for White I'd guess he posted better numbers at the combine.

Edited by Commonsense
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Magox Hall of Famer

Magox

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Some people wonder why there is all this "hate" for Gilmore.

 

It's a combination of things.

 

A) He was a high draft pick and some people don't believe he was worth the pick. I don't quite fall in that category but that is part of it

 

B) He went to Patriots. Do we really need to say more about that?

 

C) He went to the Patriots and made some comments that can easily be interpreted as backhanded insults to the Bills.

 

D) He never endeared himself to Bills fan base sorta like Sammy. Gilmore comes across as aloof, smug and that never is anything really completely his fault.

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thebandit27 Hall of Famer

thebandit27

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Gross misjudgment by BB on that signing and it didn't take

long for it to show itself. Jeff Howe had a good point this morning, days before FA opened the Patriots were ridiculing teams for signing high priced FA's the opening day of FA without ever meeting with them or putting them infront of a series of play calls and seeing how they would adjust.

 

Days later FA opened and BB and the Pats made this same mistake with Gilmore. I said it at the time and I will say it again if they got Bouye things would have been much worse for us Bills fans. I'm very interested in seeing how Gilmore responds this week, he might be the next David Price for the Boston media and my guess is he melts just as fast.

 

He is a better athlete than Logan Ryan but Ryan was a better fit opposite Butler. Now they have a pissed off Butler, an always confused Gilmore, and no pass rush. Heck, just from looking at the predraft hype for Gilmore and the lack there of for White I'd guess he posted better numbers at the combine.

 

It was definitely a surprise signing, and one that I'm sure they're second-guessing at this point.

 

As for the bold; we can only hope.

 

I never close the book on Belichick's teams; they typically get their poop in a group at some point.

Edited by thebandit27
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bigduke6 Veteran

bigduke6

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Posted (edited)

 

It was definitely a surprise signing, and one that I'm sure they're second-guessing at this point.

 

As for the bold; we can only hope.

 

I never close the book on Belichick's teams; they typically get their poop in a group at some point.

ya lots of season left, its possible that Gilmore cleans up his play. Pats have more issues on the d than just Gilmore.

 

the way the Pats approached this offseason makes me think that the Hoodie knows that Brady is just about done and he tried to stack the team for one last run. Pats used to develop through the draft, but that takes time. Signing high priced FAs isnt their norm.

Edited by bigduke6
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SlimShady'sSpaceForce Hall of Famer

SlimShady'sSpaceForce

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Posted (edited)

Tom Brady is being asked to do way too much. He was hit seven times and sacked three more in another 300-yard game. Brady engineered two beautiful fourth quarter drives to tie this game up, but at other times all the pressure appeared to be rushing him into some missed open throws.

 

New England has no explosive element in the run game (80 yards total) and a defense that can't get stops. At a certain point, Brady is going to buckle under all this weight.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000854377/article/what-we-learned-during-sundays-week-4-games

 

If the Bills are able to find a breakthrough on offense, this team will be extremely hard to stop.Tyrod Taylor's only deep threat seems to be tight end Charles Clay, who finished Sunday as the team's leading receiver with five catches for 112 yards. It's not for lack of trying -- Taylor has the ability to hit receivers on deep passes and lofted a few beautiful downfield balls on Sunday -- but something still seems stagnant on offense.

Edited by ShadyBillsFan
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Doc Hall of Famer

Doc

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Posted

Someone made the comment after he signed with the Cheaters that people in Buffalo were mean to him. I said then "wait until he screws up and the Cheaters fans go after him."

 

As for disliking him, again (and as the pic above shows) he was extremely unhappy to be drafted by the Bills and IMHO I thought it showed in his play. But despite the claim that the Cheaters "expect more from you," he's still the same hot and cold CB who shies away from contact and points fingers.


Tom Brady is being asked to do way too much. He was hit seven times and sacked three more in another 300-yard game. Brady engineered two beautiful fourth quarter drives to tie this game up, but at other times all the pressure appeared to be rushing him into some missed open throws.

 

New England has no explosive element in the run game (80 yards total) and a defense that can't get stops. At a certain point, Brady is going to buckle under all this weight.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000854377/article/what-we-learned-during-sundays-week-4-games

 

But, but, but, they have Mike Gillislee. I guess he too is still trying to live up to their expectations.

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RoyBatty is alive Veteran

RoyBatty is alive

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Posted

Couldn't be happening to a nicer guy.

 

I never thought he was worth the money he was going to demand similar to that of Watkins.

 

These will be 2 decisions that I believe we will look back at and thank the FO for making.

Absolutely agree 100% and I said that when we did it, even if S Watkins lights it up this year.

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thebandit27 Hall of Famer

thebandit27

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Posted (edited)

ya lots of season left, its possible that Gilmore cleans up his play. Pats have more issues on the d then just Gilmore.

 

the way the Pats approached this offseason makes me think that the Hoodie knows that Brady is just about done and he tried to stack the team for one last run. Pats used to develop through the draft, but that takes time. Signing high priced FAs isnt their norm.

 

I actually felt like it said more about Belichick being close to the end than Tommy Boy.

 

I thought I read somewhere that Belichick said that--at this point in his career--he's more interested in coaching established vets that love the game than he is at trying to develop young guys. I'll have to see if I can find that on the Internets...

 

EDIT: found what I was remembering, but it wasn't quite as I remembered reading it...

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/bill-belichick-explained-patriots-roster-philosophy-urban-meyer-2017-4

Edited by thebandit27
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RoyBatty is alive Veteran

RoyBatty is alive

Posted
Posted

 

 

This is my take, as well.

 

But there is something I don't quite get. Why all the Gilmore hate? I get reveling in his failure because he plays for the Pats*, but this seems to be something more. Was he a bad guy here? Did he shame the Bills on the way out? And I'm not even talking about the posts that say "He sucked from day one with the Bills" (or things of that nature), because I just write off those comments to stupidity. But there seems to be something that is driving real hate toward him, and I can't figure out what it is.

 

If it's just about the $$, then Bills fans should LOVE the fact he's getting it elsewhere (especially from the Pats*).

 

Fred Smerlas s#it all over Buffalo (the city), the Bills and their fans, yet everyone seemed to love him after he left (and to this day, it seems).

Fred Smerlas was a great player for the Bills great, five time pro bowler for Us, Gilmore not even close.. I was not aware Smerlas dumped on Buffalo after he left, shame if he did he was respected and well liked here.

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Nanker Hall of Famer

Nanker

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Posted

Tom Brady is being asked to do way too much. He was hit seven times and sacked three more in another 300-yard game. Brady engineered two beautiful fourth quarter drives to tie this game up, but at other times all the pressure appeared to be rushing him into some missed open throws.

 

New England has no explosive element in the run game (80 yards total) and a defense that can't get stops. At a certain point, Brady is going to buckle under all this weight.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000854377/article/what-we-learned-during-sundays-week-4-games

That gets me deep. I'll try to start a collection plate for them soon. :w00t:

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Mat68 Veteran

Mat68

Posted
Posted (edited)

Very simple BB is no longer building in NE he is at the point of maintaining. I thought that was the case when they traded a lot of picks for players this past year. Ealy they traded a 2nd for was cut. The machine that is NE is no longer there now. Brady is great, they will be in it as long as he is their QB. When Brady leaves or diminishes they will falter.

Edited by Mat68
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