Zay Jones drops huge catch. <radio edit>

[GaryPinC]

If the ball hits your hands you must catch it. Poorly thrown or not. It ends there.

Certainly receivers approach the game this way. In reality, when your body momentum is carrying you hard the opposite way of the ball and you only have a second or so to adjust? IMO very few, if any, receivers could have made that catch.

 

In this instance, I equate it to trying to say every right handed NFL quarterback running hard left should be able to zip in a 20 yard pass back to their right.

[r00tabaga]

 

I'm 35 and I haven't played Madden since I was 21. I also don't play fantasy football.

You want wins? Let me know how many games are won with our offensive performance yesterday.

You know what wins games....good 60 minutes of football but you don't believe in that. Complete football games aren't much to you.

I absolutely love how you throw an insult at the end of EVERY post. Mature for 35. Edited September 18, 2017 by r00tabaga

[SDS]

I absolutely love how you throw an insult at the end of EVERY post. Mature for 35.

 

Please create a reasonable title for this thread.

[r00tabaga]

[This is an automated response]

 

The topic title needs some TLC... The topic starter can edit the topic title line to make it more appropriate.

 

Thank you.

Been here many years but have only started a couple new topics. How does one change topic title? Edited September 18, 2017 by r00tabaga

[Royale with Cheese]

I absolutely love how you throw an insult at the end of EVERY post. Mature for 35.

 

You admitted in the last page that if Jones makes the catch, everything else before that is irrelevant....you even put up an exclamation point. I just brought it back up.

That's not an insult unless you're hyper sensitive.

[Crusher]

Wow, so much commentary. Read through some, but not all so please forgive if this was covered. This is what I saw from the clip:

 

Zay did a nice job with the inside fake but got too worried about the inside safety and broke off his pattern to the flag instead of continuing an outside shoulder fade to back corner of EZ like he should have run.

 

His slowing and slight stumble was him thinking too much IMO.

 

TT didn't make the best throw but we don't know if he was trying to adjust it at the last split second. Even so, if Zay was running the fade he's in a far better position and makes that grab.

 

It's a shame TT couldn't last-second adjust his throw more to get him the ball but when has he ever been able to?

 

This one's on Zay, with an acknowledgement of TT's limitations as a QB.

That last sentence makes no sense, and I'm not putting a thing on a rookie who made an incredible adjustment just to have a shot at catching it.

 

How many times will fans let Taylor slide and put it on another player, coach, or what the weather was that day?

 

It needs to stop, and TT needs to be sat down during the bye week.

[boyst]

Certainly receivers approach the game this way. In reality, when your body momentum is carrying you hard the opposite way of the ball and you only have a second or so to adjust? IMO very few, if any, receivers could have made that catch.

 

In this instance, I equate it to trying to say every right handed NFL quarterback running hard left should be able to zip in a 20 yard pass back to their right.

catching is hard in the NFL haha

[r00tabaga]

 

You admitted in the last page that if Jones makes the catch, everything else before that is irrelevant....you even put up an exclamation point. I just brought it back up.

That's not an insult unless you're hyper sensitive.

Whatever teefle. And in with the last word in 5...4..3..2.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Been here many years but have only started a couple new topics. How does one change topic title?

Hit the edit button on initial post

[Royale with Cheese]

Whatever teefle. And in with the last word in 5...4..3..2.

 

LOL...like I'm lying about what you said.

[HuSeYiN_NYC]

Even if he catches it because the ball is so badly thrown he is down and whilst we get a chance to win it we still need to score with maybe 1 most 2 shots.

 

A well thrown ball he walks in for a TD. In the NFL that isn't just open... it is wide freaking open. If your QB can't make that play he isn't worth having.

If the ball was thrown a half a second quicker with anticipation and in front of Zay while Zay was running TOWARDS the end zone, i doubt he would of been stopped and would have walked in the end zone...

 

They both were at fault honestly. If both your gloves touch the football, you gotta catch it, but I put more of the blame on TT cuz i know even Fitz would of zipped that ball in there...

[Heavy Kevi]

I haven't read through this whole thread, only the first several pages, but even though that one play was crucial, it certainly shouldn't be our focal point. But one thing I didn't mention earlier was the idea that perhaps Zay was heading towards the sideline in order to stop the clock after the reception. Who, why, and how on that one play could be speculated to death, but there will never be a clear cut answer, unless the coaches give us one.

 

The real issue is what put the Bills in that position in the first place.

 

Taylor played rather poorly up until the last several minutes of the game, no question about it. But the offense as a whole was pathetic. The first half was one of the worst 30 minutes of offense that I can remember watching. The play calling was horrendous, our run game was non existent for much of the game, especially in the first half. The passing attack was a non factor. The Bills were still trying to get past page one of their scripted stuff in the second quarter...and even though nothing was working, they were too stubborn to change their approach.

 

On defense, the Panthers had converted their first 3 3rd downs, and were 4/5 on 3rd down after that (I stopped keeping track at that point). The holes in our zone D were huge, and they knew exactly how to attack this defense. Run D was sharp all game, and the Panthers knew it would be going in. But the D kept the Bills in it, and could have had 3 INTs, two of which probably should have been INTs. They were also aided by untimely Panthers penalties that took them out of FG range, keeping the score closer. The pass rush really came alive in the 2nd half.

 

But in the end, the Bills were in pretty good position, all things considered. They had TOs, but did not use them correctly. I was screaming for a TO, but the Bills instead let the clock bleed, only to call TO as the play clock neared zero, wasting about 30 crucial seconds of clock.

 

Bottom line, this loss doesn't fall squarely on the players' shoulders. Play calling was terrible, and game management in certain situations was even worse.

 

The Bills had no business winning yesterday, and they were lucky to be in a position for Zay to win it in the end. Whether it was on Zay or Taylor is not what we should be focused on.

I agree on many points you made.

 

I do not understand why Zay would be going to the sideline though. Ball was snapped with :13 left (if I remember correctly), and they still had a TO. They are not going to have time to run more than 2 plays anyway, so you would take that TO after the catch had happened, if of course it had.

[r00tabaga]

Hit the edit button on initial post

Ahhh. Had to use full version on my mobile.

 

LOL...like I'm lying about what you said.

1

[Nanker]

So did anybody do a McLovin' lawn job on the rookie's front yard? Seems like Zay might be getting sized up for run out of town by a torch-carrying mob.

[GaryPinC]

That last sentence makes no sense, and I'm not putting a thing on a rookie who made an incredible adjustment just to have a shot at catching it.

 

How many times will fans let Taylor slide and put it on another player, coach, or what the weather was that day?

 

It needs to stop, and TT needs to be sat down during the bye week.

If you refuse to consider that Zay ran the wrong route or made the wrong adjustment then I understand why things don't make sense to you.

[Captain Murica]

From what I keep reading and hearing, Tyrod expected Zay to be where he threw it since he held the safety in the middle of the field with his eyes. Both can be blamed to a point, throw was high and Zay wasn't where he should have been. Happens when you do not have much time to gel and develop synergy. If the bills show any competence on offense they win the game by 7 if not more.

 

The offense was just complete watery dog s$&@. Can't gain much when running 2-3 yard out routes.

[Crusher]

If you refuse to consider that Zay ran the wrong route or made the wrong adjustment then I understand why things don't make sense to you.

I can consider it, but you said it's on Zay, so apparently you have decided it was his fault without having the knowledge of what the play or route was.

 

I tend to believe that if the route was wrong, then TT should have thrown to the spot where he was headed to and open...not behind him where the safety was making his way over to also.

[JerseyBills]

Where the !@#$ is he going?

He was crying after game, so , there was tremendous guilt on him and shows this team expected a W in Charlotte.

Where the ball is placed it almost looks like Zay should have simply ran a go route and likely score a TD if done right.

Whatever, these things happen. Offense has no excuse for letting it come down to one play,even if it was a helluva call, and throw.

Zay will be okay , hope he and the whole O grow from this and come out quick versus Denver.

[GunnerBill]

@steviejohnson13

Keep your head up @zayjones11. You're going to catch a lot of balls, for a lot of yards and TDs...oh and make a ton of money while doing it.

 

@andre_reed83

For sure @StevieJohnson13 we all miss ones we thought we should of caught.Keep grindin youngin,game winners are in you👍🏾

Props to both.

[JerseyBills]

I can consider it, but you said it's on Zay, so apparently you have decided it was his fault without having the knowledge of what the play or route was.

 

I tend to believe that if the route was wrong, then TT should have thrown to the spot where he was headed to and open...not behind him where the safety was making his way over to also.

CRUSHER, we've butted heads, look the O was bad man. No excuses, that type of play is unacceptable and I believe Shady,Tyrod, Dennison and Co figure things out.

I do think Zay was shocked at how wide open he was , should have ran more of a go route, ball placement looks good. Either way, the O needs to play better vs Denver.

I hope this game showed you we can play on the road, versus high end competition.

 

I think 2 top 5 defenses were flexing yesterday and both Cam and Taylor are not as bad as they looked

Props to both.

He needs it, was in tears after, growing pains

[yungmack]

Given the offense was a complete disaster all day, obsessing on this one play seems kinda futile, but I guess we must. So :

 

(1) A lot of people here fall into two camps : The "if the receiver gets two hands on the ball it should be a catch" folk, or the "Jones had to jump so it was a bad throw" folk. Both views aren't fair to the players involved and way too simplistic.

 

(2) On the other hand, a lot of people here get very sophisticated with analysis of routes and safety / cornerback coverage. The problem there is what we don't know. I can assume it was a pylon throw bumped slightly to the left to lead away from the cornerback, but that's just speculation.

 

(3) But here's what I see : Jones looks back for the ball over his right shoulder. At this point all he needs to do is continue two strides, look over his left shoulder, and the ball drops into his hands as he crosses the goal line. Instead he takes one stumbling stride, plants & leaps straight up. It was an extremely awkward play on the ball. That seems to me the most relevant point.

Excellent analysis. This should end the discussion right there. But of course it won't, we're fans.

[starrymessenger]

Absolutely not concerned about Zay Jones. He is going to be a very productive WR and very possibly a star.

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

I agree on many points you made.

 

I do not understand why Zay would be going to the sideline though. Ball was snapped with :13 left (if I remember correctly), and they still had a TO. They are not going to have time to run more than 2 plays anyway, so you would take that TO after the catch had happened, if of course it had.

They did have a TO left, although better clock management under 2 minutes would have yielded more time on the clock, and perhaps still had a TO left. But Zay is a rookie, and the play call itself may have been with the intention of a sideline route to stop the clock. A vet WR notices the hole in the coverage, and doesn't flatten out the route as much, anticipating his QB sees the same thing, and "throws him open".

 

The problem with this one play is that there are so many people that want so desperately to see Taylor holding a clipboard, that they'll use whatever they can to give their opinion support. I like Taylor, and want him to succeed, but I won't claim that he's something that he's not. If he's not the guy going forward, so be it. But personally, I thought he put the ball in the right place, watching live, and watching several replays. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

Thing is, even if Zay runs the route differently, catches a GW TD, that wouldn't have erased the rest of a poor overall performance by Taylor, yet there would be people here claiming that Taylor is our savior, while completely dismissing the rest if the game. It was very similar to the Bills @ Titans game a couple years ago. Defense was stout, offense was anemic for 3 quarters. Taylor converted a 3rd and 23 with his legs, hit a deep pass to Hogan, and shortly after that, a TD pass. That kind of clutch play started to show yesterday near the end, but just couldn't haul in the deep pass.

 

Ugly game on offense.

If you refuse to consider that Zay ran the wrong route or made the wrong adjustment then I understand why things don't make sense to you.

"Crusher the Crusader"

 

Don't bother with him...

[r00tabaga]

 

"Crusher the Crusader"

 

Don't bother with him...

Good, get him off my case. I thought it was just me. Dude is unstable now.

 

Best of luck to young Zay. Gonna need him.

Edited September 18, 2017 by r00tabaga

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Watkins wouldn't have caught it.

[TakeYouToTasker]

Watkins wouldn't have caught it.

What do you mean? Tyrod didn't throw it anywhere near the tub.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

What do you mean? Tyrod didn't throw it anywhere near the tub.

I'm sticking with my take. He would have caught it, fell to the ground and been out for the year.

[AdamK]

What do you mean? Tyrod didn't throw it anywhere near the tub.

 

Burn.

[buffalostu2]

Zay trips over the foot of the CB which doesn't help the route but I am wondering how Tyrod throws that any better WITHOUT the zone corner getting a hand on it?

 

It is a corner route not a sideline route. Tyrod throws to the space doesn't he? It is also important to note that Tyrod let's it go way before Zay turns his head.

 

30 yd throws are low percentage and I think we understand why today. I just don't think it is accurate to say it was a horrible throw under those conditions.

[Tenhigh]

If the route was supposed to be a straight line from the break to the pylon, he ran the route incorrectly. May have still been a back shoulder catch, but would have been resulted in a touchdown. And before I get hammered for being an apologist, cultist, or whatever you guys think of people who don't blame every shortcoming of the Bills on Taylor, he was not a very good QB yesterday, and leaves a LOT of plays on the field.

[H2o]

Zay clearly looked to be running a Post Corner Route. Tyrod looked like he was scared to throw the ball towards the sideline then threw it too far and high at his back shoulder. Zay did everything he could to turn around and get the ball. If Tyrod throws that ball to the right spot then Zay walks into the endzone. Should have been a big W for our team on the road. This year has the makings of 2014 all over again. Lights out defense, but middling offense. To be fair though, Cam missed some throws in the Redzone that could have been TD's for Carolina.

[JerseyBills]

Zay trips over the foot of the CB which doesn't help the route but I am wondering how Tyrod throws that any better WITHOUT the zone corner getting a hand on it?

 

It is a corner route not a sideline route. Tyrod throws to the space doesn't he? It is also important to note that Tyrod let's it go way before Zay turns his head.

 

30 yd throws are low percentage and I think we understand why today. I just don't think it is accurate to say it was a horrible throw under those conditions.

Zay clearly loses a split second out his break,it's a low percentage throw, Taylor sticks it where only Zay had a chance. I think that split second was the reason we aren't 2-0.

 

Nonetheless, why wasn't this thrown more often? If we caught them while expecting the throw,why not take shots when they're stacking the box!??

[reddogblitz]

Because a rookie WR is going to throw his QB under the bus?

Would you feel better if he said the pass was too hard for him to catch?

[PolishDave]

Zay clearly loses a split second out his break,it's a low percentage throw, Taylor sticks it where only Zay had a chance. I think that split second was the reason we aren't 2-0.

 

Nonetheless, why wasn't this thrown more often? If we caught them while expecting the throw,why not take shots when they're stacking the box!??

 

Like how about the first quarter instead of the last friggin offensive play of your game.

 

Dennison sucked monkey balls. Put his ass up in the booth where he belongs.

[34-78-83]

Yes, he stumbled in his beak and therefore was late getting his head around. Ball was already in the air because it's an anticipation throw everyone says Tyrod can't make from 35 yards away.

 

If Zay has a smooth break and gets his head around, he tracks it over his shoulder as he trots into the end zone.

 

If tryrod throws where Zay was running it's tough for him to stay in bounds and catch.

 

Blame who you want, I think he threw to the right spot.

I was actually defending the accurate throw TT made there. Stating that Zay stumbled a little and bent the route off too much toward the sideline, which he did. That play is for sure supposed to be thrown to the pylon considering the position of the deep and inside safety. Anyway... just clarifying for you. I think most understand (other than the hopeless) by now it was the right throw. Regardless of that, TT and the offense as a whole had a poor outing still.

[JerseyBills]

Zay clearly looked to be running a Post Corner Route. Tyrod looked like he was scared to throw the ball towards the sideline then threw it too far and high at his back shoulder. Zay did everything he could to turn around and get the ball. If Tyrod throws that ball to the right spot then Zay walks into the endzone. Should have been a big W for our team on the road. This year has the makings of 2014 all over again. Lights out defense, but middling offense. To be fair though, Cam missed some throws in the Redzone that could have been TD's for Carolina.

To be fair, the O had a great game, dominant against the Jets, and a terrible game @Car..

I think the D will be better than 14 and the O will be much better, let's not rush to labels after 2 weeks. Happy we have a very good defense to bounce back on.

 

Like how about the first quarter instead of the last friggin offensive play of your game.

 

Dennison sucked monkey balls. Put his ass up in the booth where he belongs.

Yup, instead of running Shady into a top 3 or better front 7 , get some of these throws in, where the D at least has to account for it.

 

Terrible game plan,but I really think our leadership and Dennison learn from this and bounce back nicely versus Denver.

[Tenhigh]

Zay clearly looked to be running a Post Corner Route. Tyrod looked like he was scared to throw the ball towards the sideline then threw it too far and high at his back shoulder. Zay did everything he could to turn around and get the ball. If Tyrod throws that ball to the right spot then Zay walks into the endzone. Should have been a big W for our team on the road. This year has the makings of 2014 all over again. Lights out defense, but middling offense. To be fair though, Cam missed some throws in the Redzone that could have been TD's for Carolina.

Wasnt that route supposed to go to the back pylon in a straight line from the break? Edited September 18, 2017 by Tenhigh

[reddogblitz]

Wrong

Thanks Trump.

 

Wrooooooooooooong

 

It's the QBs job to put the football on the receivers hands. It's the receivers job to catch it when it hits his hands.

 

Are you saying that pass was too hard for poor little ole Zay to catch?

Edited September 18, 2017 by reddogblitz

[Freddie's Dead]

Donald Jones just explained that based on the safety's positioning, Zay Jones was supposed to "stay high" (go to back pylon), but instead, Zay "went flat" (towards the sideline). So supposably TT threw the ball to where Zay "should" have been (remember Fitz's INT when TJ ran the wrong route?). So Donald Jones lays it at Zay's feet, but I still hate Tie-rod!!

[Royale with Cheese]

After hearing Donald Jones explain the play, I put it now more on Zay.

 

Zay needed to break it high and he cut it short.