Augie Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 I understand, and as I've said it's not a judgment based on two games. I just wonder if he is best suited as a slot reciever rather than an outside reciever. The knock on him coming out of college was his inability to get separation from good DB's, lack of big play ability, and being more of number two WR than a number one. I worry that McD wants him to be something that he isn't. I could see him lighting it up as a slot receiver for a good team. I'm not certain that throwing him on the outside as a rookie with his skill set is the best thing for his young career. Oh, you were clear. I think he can be a great piece of a good WR group.....for a team that can actually pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 True. It's disturbing that the guy known for having great hands in college has dropped 3 passes in the first 2 games. Maybe my expectations were too high. He is a rookie after all. Considering our draft history, I think that we all get skittish when a rookie has some early struggles. I'm guilty of it. Oh, you were clear. I think he can be a great piece of a good WR group.....for a team that can actually pass. I agree. I just don't see him as a number one, and that's what McD wants him to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offsides#76FredSmerlas Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Zay had him ripped, throw the pass where it should go and he walks in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 I know this is early, and bash me if you want, but does anyone else worry that Jones will become the next Josh Reed? For a second round pick, I don't see him as a number one WR or an explosive slot guy. I just haven't seen anything that looks like playmaking potential in this guy. I'm not judging this based on results of only two games. I'm judging this based on the skill set that I see. Because he lacks elite speed and strength, he will have to make his living with tough catches like this one that he dropped. It's still way too early to know if he can be a consistent target in the NFL like he was in college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Zay had him ripped, throw the pass where it should go and he walks in. Late to the party with the incorrect assessment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Considering our draft history, I think that we all get skittish when a rookie has some early struggles. I'm guilty of it. I agree. I just don't see him as a number one, and that's what McD wants him to be. How do you know that? He's just got to work with what he's got.... TODAY. Rome wasn't built in a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 How do you know that? He's just got to work with what he's got.... TODAY. Rome wasn't built in a day. I tend to think that's the idea when you trade your number one WR. Unless McD intends on drafting another WR in a high round which wouldn't make much sense anytime in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 I tend to think that's the idea when you trade your number one WR. Unless McD intends on drafting another WR in a high round which wouldn't make much sense anytime in the near future. A lot of great WR's come in rounds 2-3. Sammy was going to cost too much to keep, and was too risky health-wise. How much does a run oriented team want to invest in the WR position? It will take some time to see how it all comes together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusher Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Not to me. It looked like a ball that hit the receiver in the hands and fell to the ground. After watching the replay way too many times, and seeing what the Bills players/coaches said, it is just more obvious now that Zay had a bad play. I don't know what Bills fans want from Tyrod. If they want him to be Tom Brady, of course that isn't happening. If they want him to be Russell Wilson, I think he could do that. Wilson's offenses don't always score. Especially the past couple seasons they have struggled. But you can trust him to hold down the fort in a game. The Seahawks have had a TON of games like ours today that they end up winning. Their offense does next to nothing for 50 straight minutes, elite defense keeps things close, then they score in the final minute and win something like 10-3. I don't expect our brand new offense to execute that situation as well as the Seahawks do, with a rookie WR as our #2, a WR who has had barely any practice with our offense as our #1, and a new offensive scheme/coach. I watched a lot of football today. In every game you see QBs overthrowing wide open receivers a couple times. I'm not talking about open like Zay was, I mean WIDE open. Passes sailing over the head of certain 1st downs. I wonder how many Bills fans see these things. I watched Matt Ryan today throw a deep incompletion to Taylor Gabriel, and the broadcast replay showed Julio Jones crossing over the middle wide open as the ball is coming out. That single play if it was Tyrod would be a whole thread on this board. I wonder if Bills fans know how common this is? I certainly don't because no one tracks it. But a number of people here talk like they know exactly how many wide open receivers Tyrod is missing, and they know that it's worse than the league average. Then on this play Tyrod does what everyone wants - throws a nice anticipatory throw on a 4th down for the game. The thing about anticipatory throws is they're going to lead to more incompletions. If the receiver has a different read on the coverage it will almost certainly be incomplete, or even a pick. Do people realize this when they ask for Tyrod to do that more? Last week Tyrod tries giving Clay a chance at the ball and Clay fails completely. What should have been an incompletion at worst turns into a red zone pick. But what do people here say, "I don't care if there's more picks as long as Tyrod gives his receivers a chance!" Until that exact scenario happens and suddenly it was a mistake of a throw. So I really don't know what Bills fans want. Well, wins. We all want wins. He could never in a million years be Russell Wilson. Russell Wilson has a tremendous feel for the position and is not limited as a passer like TT. These thoughts work in your mind, but are not nearly as well applied in real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 A lot of great WR's come in rounds 2-3. Sammy was going to cost too much to keep, and was too risky health-wise. How much does a run oriented team want to invest in the WR position? It will take some time to see how it all comes together. All good points. I didn't mind the Sammy trade at the time, and I still don't. I just wonder, even in a run heavy system if Jones has the skill set to be an outside receiver in the pros. As a run heavy team, we will still need a passing game. Shady is an elite talent. He doesn't have much time left. Will we be afforded the luxury of being a run heavy team when he is gone? You need a decent RB to be a run heavy team. I'm just concerned that McD doesn't have the ability to be flexible and game plan around what he has. Otherwise, I absolutely understand what you are saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimKellyTryouts Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 His scouting report was eerily similar to Robert Woods. "polished route runner" "NFL ready" "good hands" etc. Similarly like Woods, he doesn't seem to excel at anything that will make him a primary passing option, but a good #2 once a better QB is in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
100DollarBills Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Late to the party with the incorrect assessment. Nope try again. A real QB puts that in an area that would allow Zay to walk into the endzone. Zay was wide open, shame, I feel bad for Zay. That's not true. If Peterman was in we would have completed about 20 passes that didn't exist and our offense would have worked in a rhythm and made about 30 first downs in a row even though he never did three in a row in preseason and he would have led us to a 28-9 lead so we never would have needed the last drive. How hard is it to have more than 25 yards passing in the first half? You could of had 25 yards for crying out loud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Zay had him ripped, throw the pass where it should go and he walks in. He did. Who runs an out pattern to go OB at the three yard line with 15 seconds to go. Because that is what you are asking us to believe. That Zay ran the right route, TT threw a wildly inaccurate pass, and it should have hit him in stride, even though he wasn't running in stride, so he can got OB and stop the clock instead of walking into the endzone for a game winning TD. Nope try again. A real QB puts that in an area that would allow Zay to walk into the endzone. Zay was wide open, shame, I feel bad for Zay. How hard is it to have more than 25 yards passing in the first half? You could of had 25 yards for crying out loud. Could HAVE had. No one could OF had. Bronko Nagurski, Jim Brown, Walter Payton could not of had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 He did. Who runs an out pattern to go OB at the three yard line with 15 seconds to go. Because that is what you are asking us to believe. That Zay ran the right route, TT threw a wildly inaccurate pass, and it should have hit him in stride, even though he wasn't running in stride, so he can got OB and stop the clock instead of walking into the endzone for a game winning TD. Could HAVE had. No one could OF had. Bronko Nagurski, Jim Brown, Walter Payton could not of had. We could in fact make the world a slightly better place here at TBD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
100DollarBills Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 (edited) He did. Who runs an out pattern to go OB at the three yard line with 15 seconds to go. Because that is what you are asking us to believe. That Zay ran the right route, TT threw a wildly inaccurate pass, and it should have hit him in stride, even though he wasn't running in stride, so he can got OB and stop the clock instead of walking into the endzone for a game winning TD. Could HAVE had. No one could OF had. Bronko Nagurski, Jim Brown, Walter Payton could not of had. Yay, slightly more enlightened now. Who would have thought I'd learn grammar techniques on a football forum. Wish fans were more concerned about the product on the field though... Edited September 18, 2017 by 100DollarBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Yay, slightly more enlightened now. Who would have thought I'd learn grammar techniques on a football forum. Wish fans were more concerned about the product on the field though... Grammar is like fundamentals. You can break the rules only after you know them. So I can't correct your grammar and understand football at the same time? They're interrelated some way? I decided to criticize your poor grammar instead of the poor take. Maybe it was just easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Yay, slightly more enlightened now. Who would have thought I'd learn grammar techniques on a football forum. Wish fans were more concerned about the product on the field though... Then again, those who can competently speak their native tongue may have more credibility when it come to the complex nuances of professional football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Then again, those who can competently speak their native tongue may have more credibility when it come to the complex nuances of professional football. You should of known better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 You should of known better. What does I know? I'ms just trying to make me point. (That almost sounded like a crazy pirate!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 What does I know? I'ms just trying to make me point. (That almost sounded like a crazy pirate!) Yeah. No one should ever say something like that without a parrot on their shoulder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Yeah. No one should ever say something like that without a parrot on their shoulder. Damn birds crap everywhere.....last place I want is on my shoulder! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r00tabaga Posted September 18, 2017 Author Share Posted September 18, 2017 https://mobile.twitter.com/YardsPerPass/status/909511839784034307/video/1/ I don't see this stumble that some of you are talking about... I just see a terribly thrown football by a running back trying to play quarterback. Well that's more of a "you thing" then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 This post and link needs to be pinned. Everyone talks about Zay and consolingly him. Several different guys in several different ways. There is no way imo you can read that link and think TT made a bad pass. It's impossible. Yup, and bump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 In the cold light of dawn, it's increasingly clear to me from watching the overhead view posted by 26cb that that was basically a perfect throw. Jones really screwed the pooch on that one--no field or time awareness plus a late stagger that occurred after taylor released it. Jones just blew it. There's really nothing more to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 It looks like a bad throw because Zay tripped breaking to the corner. Just watch it... That said, TT could have certainly had a better game. No support from the O-line in the run game either. Yes, he stumbled in his beak and therefore was late getting his head around. Ball was already in the air because it's an anticipation throw everyone says Tyrod can't make from 35 yards away. If Zay has a smooth break and gets his head around, he tracks it over his shoulder as he trots into the end zone. If tryrod throws where Zay was running it's tough for him to stay in bounds and catch. Blame who you want, I think he threw to the right spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simpleman Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 (edited) But Sammy does. That is all I could think at the time. If that had been Sammy, we would have won that game and are 2-0. This lose is on management for gutting the team this year for a gamble on possible unknown gains in next year's draft. A Sammy or an OBJ makes that catch. Edited September 18, 2017 by simpleman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 For those who blame Tyrod- he probably won't be here next year, and if he is he's a place holder for a rookie. But hey... we were right there in a game where our number 1 rushing attack had like 10 yards, go D! For those who blame Zay - he's a rookie and he's honestly probably pressing a bit because he has to. This is why it's rare to see rookie WRs make a huge jump unless they're supremely talented, he's struggling to get open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 https://mobile.twitter.com/YardsPerPass/status/909511839784034307/video/1/ I don't see this stumble that some of you are talking about... I just see a terribly thrown football by a running back trying to play quarterback. America 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 In the cold light of dawn, it's increasingly clear to me from watching the overhead view posted by 26cb that that was basically a perfect throw. Jones really screwed the pooch on that one--no field or time awareness plus a late stagger that occurred after taylor released it. Jones just blew it. There's really nothing more to it. Correct. And like you and I have said, he also slowed down. He started trotting to the sideline, then seemed surprised to see the ball coming towards him and fought the catch with his hands. It was a disaster of a route and demonstrated a disturbing lack of focus and situational awareness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 It hit both his hands and he is an NFL receiver. It's clutch time and TT atleast GAVE HIM A REAL CHANCE. That's on Zay So are we giving Taylor a pass for the first 58 minutes because he made one throw that may or my not have been catch-able? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 It was a bad throw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r00tabaga Posted September 18, 2017 Author Share Posted September 18, 2017 It was a bad throw Says who? You? I trust my eyes, the experts and Zay Jones' own words but carry on. So are we giving Taylor a pass for the first 58 minutes because he made one throw that may or my not have been catch-able? Everyone gets a pass if you win. That's all I'm concerned with. If my defense gets gashed for 1,000 yards but makes the game-winning goal line stand...yes, they get a pass. Tyrod did enough on the last drive to earn us a victory. Unfortunately, we lost (or fortunately for some "fans") so let's move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Says who? You? I trust my eyes, the experts and Zay Jones' own words but carry on. Because a rookie WR is going to throw his QB under the bus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offsides#76FredSmerlas Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 (edited) Nope try again. A real QB puts that in an area that would allow Zay to walk into the endzone. Zay was wide open, shame, I feel bad for Zay. Agree How hard is it to have more than 25 yards passing in the first half? You could of had 25 yards for crying out loud. Edited September 18, 2017 by offsides#76FredSmerlas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r00tabaga Posted September 18, 2017 Author Share Posted September 18, 2017 Because a rookie WR is going to throw his QB under the bus? Question. Why would he blame Taylor? Serious question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraBills Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 In the cold light of dawn, it's increasingly clear to me from watching the overhead view posted by 26cb that that was basically a perfect throw. Jones really screwed the pooch on that one--no field or time awareness plus a late stagger that occurred after taylor released it. Jones just blew it. There's really nothing more to it. The way I'm starting to look at this is that it was good that TT had trust in a rookie WR to make that play in that situation. He had that much faith in Zay. I like that. The flip side is, damn, a great deal of pressure is being placed on a rookie to make clutch potential game winning plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtDart Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 It hit him in the hands because he made an incredibly quick adjustment inside on an outside route. Blaming Jones is amateur hour analysis Luckily we didn't play a 100% Cam Newton. He was inaccurate today just coming off rotator surgery. That game would have been way more out of control. The D did a real nice job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraBills Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 So are we giving Taylor a pass for the first 58 minutes because he made one throw that may or my not have been catch-able? Taylor's first 58 minutes were atrocious no doubt. The Panthers front seven is actually good too so let's not lose that in the discussion. That said, the Panthers revealed a weakness to TT and this offense. They stacked the box and took McCoy away and dared TT to make plays to the WR's. It didn't happen. Weaknesses revealed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Tyrod hits him in stride and he's walking in for the game winner. Major breakdown by the Panthers and Tyrod couldn't take advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r00tabaga Posted September 18, 2017 Author Share Posted September 18, 2017 Tyrod hits him in stride. Yes fify- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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