Diggs traded to Texans for picks

[sunshynman]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I would do that in a heartbeat but wouldn't think this would be enough.  Both Bills #1 and #2 picks will be later in the round picks.

The Vikings might be gold but still, a second so 33 at the earliest.  The Giants could use one of these elite WR's as well.

That is a lot of capital for a receiver. Last time we moved up for a receiver it did not work out that well. There are many talented receivers in this draft. My choices would be Stay put at 38 BPA, move up a little for the right WR, or move down and grab more pics. 

[Bruffalo]

8 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

We get Nabers and keep pick 60?   SEND IT. 

Chris Trapasso said on WGR yesterday that he thinks packaging our 1st & next years 1st & the Vikings 2nd should be enough to move us to 7.  

 

It's a lot to give up, but to stabilize your WR room it's probably worth it. 

 

The other side of it makes some sense too, just wait and draft 2 talented WRs in the 1st & 2nd. It's kind of hedging your bets that one of them will be able to just take over. 

 

I know there are some Justin Shorter truthers out there who will tell you we don't need two WRs but I think it's sort of laughable. 

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Don't get me wrong, I totally get your point.  We have to wait to see how Beane uses the 2025 pick.  Most likely he trades it.

 

On another note.  I for one am not a big fan of too many "void year" contracts and too many restructures.  All it does is open risk to too much dead money.

Beane has pushed it pretty hard hoping for the rings but reality has set in and it's time to regroup.

 

What cracks me up is many fans NOW complaining about too much dead money but are the same people wanting to restructure every player on the team.

It's a balancing act that got a little out of hand and now it's time to pay the piper.  I got no problem with that.

Im still hopeful that the team can compete this year at a high level!

 

Agree generally, but let's not sidestep the implication that it's his (Beane's) MO that is responsible.  That MO was at least partially resultant from his inability to produce any elite players via his drafts over six drafts, for which he went out and took those unnecessary risks because of that.  Which is why we are where we are.  

 

It was a balancing act as you said, now he's bouncing around in the net below.  

 

It is what it is.  Now some defend it by saying it's a normal progression when it isn't necessarily.  Homers, nonetheless.  

 

BTW, I just looked at Allen's per game average under Brady.  If that's anywhere near what he does on average this season, we may be in trouble.  On top of that Allen has a new Center and we have only one WR on the team that's caught a pass from Allen this past season, and hardly a prolific one.  It's a reach that that's a recipe for even staying the course much less improvement.  Then there's the changes on D which we didn't Even bring up.  

 

We should learn a lot this season.  Unfortunately it will very likely be in the hard lessons category.  

 

 

Edited April 4 by PBF81

[Mat68]

Diggs will be productive in Hou.  Curious how his target share will look.  Averaging 160 targets over 4 years is an incredible amount.  Even the games he did not produce he had his targets.   Imo Allen will benefit from being the guy on offense.  Every skill player in the draft will be over the moon to play with Allen.   Hit the open guy, win and move on.  Everything else is just noise.    

Edited April 4 by Mat68

[MAJBobby]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I would do that in a heartbeat but wouldn't think this would be enough.  Both Bills #1 and #2 picks will be later in the round picks.

The Vikings might be gold but still, a second so 33 at the earliest.  The Giants could use one of these elite WR's as well.

Likely leveraging a relationship as well.

[Jrb1979]

5 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

Maybe if we have more corporate fans, things will get better

 

Can't have the riffraff around

 

It has nothing to do with corporate fans. The best teams have elite playmakers.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Diggs’ legacy here will be like Mario Williams. Absolutely dominant but overshadowed by weird drama and a poor exit. 

Edited April 4 by TheyCallMeAndy

[papazoid]

6 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

Diggs will be productive in Hou.  Curious how his target share will look.  Averaging 160 targets over 4 years is an incredible amount.  Even the games he did not produce he had his targets.   Imo Allen will benefit from being the guy on offense.  Every skill player in the draft will be over the moon to play with Allen.   Hit the open guy, win and move on.  Everything else is just noise.    

 

i'm guessing they play him in the slot.....absolutely perfect for his elite route running

[Mat68]

Just now, papazoid said:

 

i'm guessing they play him in the slot.....absolutely perfect for his elite route running

What will they do with Dell?

[Warriorspikes51]

10 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Likely leveraging a relationship as well.

 

This.  Beane helped Schoen become a GM.  Time to call in the chip and get a 15% discount for #6 haha 

[Mat68]

2 minutes ago, papazoid said:

 

i'm guessing they play him in the slot.....absolutely perfect for his elite route running

With Collins and Dell I think Diggs is in a similar position with less target share. 

[Fleezoid]

1 hour ago, Jrb1979 said:

I could care less about work ethic. Elite playmakers are more important and right now they don't have many.  You need playmakers to win when it matters. Look at KC last year, they had Kelce for offense but their defense had many playmakers. 

 

Compare that to the Bills who have a bunch of good players that bring their lunch pail to work. They play good together as a team but when it matters don't have guys that are game breakers. 

 

Lunch time at One Bills Drive.....

 

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, MAJBobby said:

I would do this trade. 
 

 

I like the move a poster said earlier. Draft McConkey@28 and move back up in the second for Legette/Coleman

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

7 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

Diggs will be productive in Hou.  Curious how his target share will look.  Averaging 160 targets over 4 years is an incredible amount.  Even the games he did not produce he had his targets.   Imo Allen will benefit from being the guy on offense.  Every skill player in the draft will be over the moon to play with Allen.   Hit the open guy, win and move on.  Everything else is just noise.    

Last year even some of his big games were horribly inefficient imo.  When you’re getting 16 targets against the giants, you’d expect more than 100 receiving yards and 0 tds I’d think. 
 

that stretch of Jax-Tampa where stuff went really sideways for the offense was too many Diggs targets with too little return imo.  A lot of his damage against Jax was with the game pretty much over already 

 

5 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

What will they do with Dell?

I really don’t understand why they did this for this reason lol like they got a good deal for diggs but there’s a nonzero chance it blows up on them 

[Pete]

I loved when Diggs would play catch with the kids pregame.  Now my lasting Diggs takeaway is Diggs yelling at Josh, and Diggs choke job against the Chefs(fumble first play of game, dropping 3rd down pass, then dropping perfect pass from Josh when playoff life was on line.  Good return for declining diva, and good riddance.

[JohnBonhamRocks]

So many takes, so little time.

 

The trade is a good move overall and netted good return given the contract situation, the unsettled relationship, and compared with other recent trades of WRs around the league. The bad move was the extension that made this trade of an albatross necessary. Rather Beane grab a lifeboat than go down with the ship. Still, we are not rebuilding, just being smart and objective about bad contracts. 

 

Diggs gave us some great entertainment and production, but the sun is setting on his career. The Bills showed last season down the stretch that he is replaceable.

 

I wonder how little value we could give up to get in position for one of the big 3 WRs in this draft.
 

Also, yes, the money freed up next year can be used for a new deal if we were to trade for a WR - just need to structure the hits that way. 

[jjmac]

22 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Reed wasn't half the player Diggs is.

We will not see Diggs in a gold jacket in Canton, Ohio. 

[Royale with Cheese]

15 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I like the move a poster said earlier. Draft McConkey@28 and move back up in the second for Legette/Coleman

 

I would 100% do this.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

4 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Agree generally, but let's not sidestep the implication that it's his (Beane's) MO that is responsible.  That MO was at least partially resultant from his inability to produce any elite players via his drafts over six drafts, for which he went out and took those unnecessary risks because of that.  Which is why we are where we are.  

 

It was a balancing act as you said, now he's bouncing around in the net below.  

 

It is what it is.  Now some defend it by saying it's a normal progression when it isn't necessarily.  Homers, nonetheless.  

 

BTW, I just looked at Allen's per game average under Brady.  If that's anywhere near what he does on average this season, we may be in trouble.  On top of that Allen has a new Center and we haven't only one WR on the team that's caught a pass from Allen this past season, and hardly a prolific I've.  It's a reach that that's a recipe for even staying the course much less improvement.  

 

We should learn a lot this season.  Unfortunately it will very likely be in the hard lessons category.  

 

 

 

I'd say - much like a midseason addition at WR struggling to make an impact - an offensive coordinator replacement always somewhat has their hands tied.  It felt like we went to a lot of similar concepts and checks, option route concepts, we ran the ball a LOT, and relied on josh's running ability more than we should have.  But the team was floundering at 6-6 and looking at missing the playoffs, so you just.. do what you gotta do to win.  

[Matt_In_NH]

9 minutes ago, jjmac said:

We will not see Diggs in a gold jacket in Canton, Ohio. 

Are you sure about that? 

[CaliBills]

Weirdly, I think Josh has a better year than the last 2 years with Diggs and Davis gone.

 

Sometimes we think the current situation is better than the future (look at him and his ex-gf where it definitely impacted him mentally during the season they ended things to now dating Hailee Steinfield and seemly super happy). 

 

Granted the unknown is scary but it is also exciting because it allows for a different opportunity to thrive.

 

Now we at least know we will see something different on the field with out our EX WR1 and WR2.  

Exciting!!

 

  

[PBF81]

25 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

Diggs will be productive in Hou.  Curious how his target share will look.  Averaging 160 targets over 4 years is an incredible amount.  Even the games he did not produce he had his targets.   Imo Allen will benefit from being the guy on offense.  Every skill player in the draft will be over the moon to play with Allen.   Hit the open guy, win and move on.  Everything else is just noise.    

 

Diggs should be productive not in the slot where Brady had him playing often.  It's difficult to envision that wasn't a huge part of Diggs' discontent.  If he returns to his usual productivity it will tell us a lot.

 

The concern for Allen which I have yet to see anyone mention, apart from the fact that if he only averages what he did under Brady, he's headed for more of a 2019 passing season rather than his recent ones, is that he's not a high-percentage short passing QB.  That's far from his forte.  But those are the WRs he's now saddled with unless someone steps up to provide what Diggs has provided over the past four seasons.  Shakir seems to be out best prospect for that right now which isn't exactly reassuring.  

 

It's all but a given that we need to draft a WR at 28th, and possibly at 60th too, or maybe a trade up in the 2nd as a safety valve.  

 

While Diggs may not have put up great numbers under Brady, he still drew coverage of some sort.  As many that have covered this trade have pointed out, which should be obvious, we don't currently have a WR that's any opposing DC is concerned about in the matchup category.  That's an issue.  And all a mere three weeks prior to the Draft.  

 

 

[Process]

My first reaction when the news broke was 1. shock and 2. disappointment we only got a 2025 pick

 

But after some time I'm liking the move more and more. 2025 2nd round pick is actually a great return for him, when you consider his age, contract and recent lack of production. 

 

Sets us up with ammo to make a move for a stud WR in the draft and get younger, cheaper and hopefully better. 

[Real McClappy]

39 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

What will they do with Dell?

Dell is basically a young Diggs 2.0.

 

I wish we just traded players 1:1 and called it a day.

[dollars 2 donuts]

19 minutes ago, CaliBills said:

Weirdly, I think Josh has a better year than the last 2 years with Diggs and Davis gone.

 

Sometimes we think the current situation is better than the future (look at him and his ex-gf where it definitely impacted him mentally during the season they ended things to now dating Hailee Steinfield and seemly super happy). 

 

Granted the unknown is scary but it is also exciting because it allows for a different opportunity to thrive.

 

Now we at least know we will see something different on the field with out our EX WR1 and WR2.  

Exciting!!

 

  

 

 

If this is the case, and Hailey helped Josh to be happy and take things to the next level, then we (and mostly Josh) might as well go big or go home...

 

 

 

 

Git'er done, Beane.  Make Josh super happy and get this Town its first Super Bowl.

 

...AND FIND A BILLS "17" JERSEY THAT FITS THIS WOMAN, PRONTO!*

 

 

(* It doesn't necessarily have to fit)

 

Go Bills

 

 

 

 

Edited April 4 by dollars 2 donuts

[PBF81]

12 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

I'd say - much like a midseason addition at WR struggling to make an impact - an offensive coordinator replacement always somewhat has their hands tied.  It felt like we went to a lot of similar concepts and checks, option route concepts, we ran the ball a LOT, and relied on josh's running ability more than we should have.  But the team was floundering at 6-6 and looking at missing the playoffs, so you just.. do what you gotta do to win.  

 

I suppose, but our wins were not all impressive.  Remember, we needed unlikely defensive TDs to beat Miami and NE.  

 

I'm in the minority on thinking that Brady's not going to be good.  

 

Also controversial, although for the life of me I don't know why, is the take that we should be doing everything that we can to build around and support Allen, particularly the passing game.  (WRs/OL). Rather, we have a coach that insists on focusing on the D and running game whether that running game is provided by a RB or QB being indifferent.  Remember, Cook doesn't run on 3rd-downs.  

 

Our current situation is very unsettling.  

 

BTW, Allen ran twice as much under Brady.  His rushing attempts went from 4.7/game to 9.1.  

 

 

[Solomon Grundy]

37 minutes ago, Pete said:

I loved when Diggs would play catch with the kids pregame.  Now my lasting Diggs takeaway is Diggs yelling at Josh, and Diggs choke job against the Chefs(fumble first play of game, dropping 3rd down pass, then dropping perfect pass from Josh when playoff life was on line.  Good return for declining diva, and good riddance.

Diggs was a great player and great in the community here in Buffalo. He's now a Houston Texan. Can we show some grace as fans, appreciate his time here and let him go on with his life without bashing the guy? Aren't we better than that? #BillsMafia

[Ya Digg?]

1 minute ago, PBF81 said:

 

I suppose, but our wins were not all impressive.  Remember, we needed unlikely defensive TDs to beat Miami and NE.  

 

I'm in the minority on thinking that Brady's not going to be good.  

 

Also controversial, although for the life of me I don't know why, is the take that we should be doing everything that we can to build around and support Allen, particularly the passing game.  (WRs/OL). Rather, we have a coach that insists on focusing on the D and running game whether that running game is provided by a RB or QB being indifferent.  Remember, Cook doesn't run on 3rd-downs.  

 

Our current situation is very unsettling.  

 

BTW, Allen ran twice as much under Brady.  His rushing attempts went from 4.7/game to 9.1.  

 

 

I don’t care about impressive wins-you know who didn’t have a whole lot of impressive wins last year (and even the year before that)? The Chiefs. All that matters is they win the games 

[BeastMaster]

11 minutes ago, jjmac said:

We will not see Diggs in a gold jacket in Canton, Ohio. 

If he's a major contributor in the Texans winning a Lombardi, I would take that bet

 

He's gonna have the numbers. The question will be whether he can help take a team to the promised land

 

I have no idea what kind of impact Diggs will have, but I would imagine he will be a factor for at least his first couple years

[PBF81]

3 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

I don’t care about impressive wins-you know who didn’t have a whole lot of impressive wins last year (and even the year before that)? The Chiefs. All that matters is they win the games 

 

The point is that we're not going to win enough games to win the division on defensive TDs and getting to play teams that have their the best players out due to injury.  

 

 

[Mat68]

48 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Last year even some of his big games were horribly inefficient imo.  When you’re getting 16 targets against the giants, you’d expect more than 100 receiving yards and 0 tds I’d think. 
 

that stretch of Jax-Tampa where stuff went really sideways for the offense was too many Diggs targets with too little return imo.  A lot of his damage against Jax was with the game pretty much over already 

 

I really don’t understand why they did this for this reason lol like they got a good deal for diggs but there’s a nonzero chance it blows up on them 

In NFL trade terms a middle to high second pick for a 30 plus wr is above market.  

[Logic]

 

 

 

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, jahnyc said:

A few thoughts below:

 

1. The Diggs trade puts more pressure on Allen both in terms of play and leadership, which seems the opposite of what should be happening with Allen already shouldering too much overall responsibility.

 

I actually think it may take pressure off Allen. 

-In the talk piece I linked with Shady et al, one of the hosts (Acho?) made a big point of the pressure it puts on a QB when you have a top receiver demanding the ball, that it can influence the play calling and the QB's decision making.  Shady disagreed.  But it's a point: Josh has said he's a bit of a "people pleaser".  Are some of the times when Josh was forcing the ball to Stef or to Gabe with poor results, influenced by his desire to "get them their bag"?  Did it influence play selection?  Was Diggs "don't listen to him" (referring to Dorsey) because Josh was trying to follow progressions and not look to Diggs first?

-Josh has said he doesn't like to "be an #######" and "call people out" about performance.  IF it's true that Diggs was "going off" on Josh not only on the sidelines but in the locker room and sometimes practice to the point where it was detrimental to the team, does it take confliction away from Josh if he doesn't have that in his face and need to make that decision?  Or was that "in his face" actually helping Josh?  Maybe it helped initially in 2020 and 2021, but now it's a weight on him?
-It's been notable to me when Josh has talked about new receivers coming in, he's repeatedly mentioned "works hard, doesn't complain".  Now Diggs has always been noted for working hard.  But maybe there's been a lot of complaining, and that's been Josh's indirect way of calling that out (and not getting through)
 

1 hour ago, jahnyc said:

2. Have to think Diggs wanted out, probably for awhile, and may have specified the Texans as where he wanted to go.  Given this potential dynamic, I don't think Allen had any power to keep Diggs from being traded.

 

I don't think Diggs preferences on where he wanted to go were given any weight whatsoever.  Why would you think so? 

I also don't think Diggs wanting out was given too much weight.  I think the "wanting" was on the side of the Bills brass and possibly Josh.

 

I do think there may have been a precipitating factor that made the Bills willing to move on at a fire sale price.  Maybe Allen asked Diggs to "get in the lab" with him and Diggs declined to do so.  Maybe the Bills gave Diggs a rehab or a conditioning program and it's been clear he hasn't been following it - Beane specifically mentioned "fashion" and "he's back working out now".  Coaches can't talk football to players, but they can call to check in or for social reasons, maybe there were 'relationship building' calls that were swatted down.

 

I personally think the Bills have been fishing for the right balance as well as the right talent in the WR room since Beasley and Brown then Sanders left.  In hindsight, I think moving on from Chad Hall and McKenzie last season while bringing in new WR in Hardy and Sherfield AND a new WR coach, may have been an attempt to change the energy in the room as well as to upgrade (the upgrade obviously failed).  Chad Hall was notably buddies with his WR and Diggs praised him to the skies.  If Diggs had a 'tude, maybe Hall wasn't willing to get in Diggs grill.  McKenzie was the guy who talked to Diggs on the phone after 13 seconds.  Maybe they felt he'd become a buddy and enabler of Diggs 'tude so "bye Felicia".

In film clips of '23 minicamp after Diggs showed up, that any time Diggs and Allen were talking the WR coach was RIGHT THERE, to the point that I remarked on it.
 

I do think that Allen could have "gone to the mat" to keep Diggs and that would have had a lot of weight, but I don't think he did.  McCoy and company pulled no punches and made no bones about Allen and Diggs relationship: "it's bad".

 

1 hour ago, jahnyc said:

3. The Bills have lost a lot of leadership this offseason.  On offense, to maintain continuity, I would have kept Morse if the plan was to trade Diggs.  I wouldn't be surprised if this makes it more likely that Hyde returns to the Bills this season.

 

I think Morse is another guy where the Bills made a decision to move on a year early rather than a year late.   

But you're right about the leadership and Beane acknowledged as much.

 

1 hour ago, jahnyc said:

4. If trading Diggs was the plan, I am surprised that the Bills did not take the max amount to restructure Allen this offseason.  That extra cap space would have been helpful to address the WR situation and other holes on the roster this year.

 

You shouldn't be surprised.  Beane's MO is that he only restructures as needed to make moves.  So if Beane feels he can make a good trade for someone, he won't hesitate, but he also won't do it until just before he needs it.

 

1 hour ago, jahnyc said:

 

5. Will be interesting to see Beane's strategy to replace Diggs.  It certainly would make sense to draft a WR in the first round this year and possibly use draft resources to move up for a desired WR.  Also makes sense from a financial perspective to have control over a drafted player for at least the next four years.  Alternatively, is it possible that Beane views the potential availability of some top WRs next offseason as the more attractive option to replace Diggs?  I guess whether we draft a WR or defense in the first round will be a potential indication of the strategy.

 

I honestly think Beane and his scouts analysis of the WR quality will drive this.  It's notable that the 1st year contribution of last year's WR was:

1. 5th round Puka Nacua

2. 2nd round Rashee Rice

3. 1st round Jordan Addison

 

Addison was the 4th WR taken in the 1st.

Rice was the 3rd WR taken in the 2nd, and the 7th WR overall.

If I'm counting right, Nacua was #20.  (Obviously there's a stroke of luck there.)
 

Keep in mind Allen was the 3rd QB drafted.  My point is that Beane and Co trust their personnel evaluation.  They'll move up if they think it's critical, but they're more likely to be strategic about it than others think, because there is that "crap shoot" element to the draft.

[Augie]

31 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

Are you sure about that? 

 

Yes, because I would not tune in to see it.   😋

 

Moving on, appreciate what we got and no hard feelings. No huge surprise it ended this way. Again. 

[Commish]

https://youtube.com/shorts/H9PlqiN4idk?si=kzKFXxBAXs_6P6MD

 

Benchwarmerbran video, wish I knew how to embed better...

 

 

Edited April 4 by Commish

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, Commish said:

https://youtube.com/shorts/H9PlqiN4idk?si=kzKFXxBAXs_6P6MD

 

Benchwarmerbran video, wish I knew how to embed better...

 

 

 

That's actually pretty funny.  

[PBF81]

At the end of the day, this team is missing nearly 2,000 yards and 15 passing TDs of production from Diggs & Davis on last year's team.  That's about half of Allen's passing production.

 

If it were that easy to replace that with a pair of 5th round WRs and a seven year vet that's averaged 500 yards & 3 TDs, then we wouldn't be talking about drafting a WR in rounds 1 & 2 or if possible, getting a high-priced veteran WR.  

 

We're looking more like the Ravens than ever.  

 

 

Edited April 4 by PBF81

[4merper4mer]

2 hours ago, Jrb1979 said:

I could care less about work ethic. Elite playmakers are more important and right now they don't have many.  You need playmakers to win when it matters. Look at KC last year, they had Kelce for offense but their defense had many playmakers. 

 

Compare that to the Bills who have a bunch of good players that bring their lunch pail to work. They play good together as a team but when it matters don't have guys that are game breakers. 

You’re right.  Working hard is meaningless.  If you dress up pretty for the Kentucky Derby and have talent that should cover it.

[Beck Water]

7 minutes ago, Logic said:

 

 

 

 

I think this guy Taylor has it:

I think the Bills are trading Diggs sooner than they planned to, and for less than they hoped to get - the rest of the league may see him as Cosell calls it, from tape, "not a #1 WR, a good WR".

 

The Bills probably made a mistake re-structuring Diggs when they did, and they're eating more than they should in dead cap as a consequence, but not every decision a GM makes can be right.
 

[Logic]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

I think this guy Taylor has it:

I think the Bills are trading Diggs sooner than they planned to, and for less than they hoped to get - the rest of the league may see him as Cosell calls it, from tape, "not a #1 WR, a good WR".

 

The Bills probably made a mistake re-structuring Diggs when they did, and they're eating more than they should in dead cap as a consequence, but not every decision a GM makes can be right.
 

Thanks for this. Agreed on all counts.

Also, the dead cap hurts, but as someone said on Twitter yesterday: "What player of consequence were you realistically signing at this point in the offseason anyway?". It's not the fans' money, so it's weird that the fans get so bent out of shape about it.

For me, the fact that all the dead money hits THIS year -- when the Bills were likely done spending big money in free agency anyway -- makes it palatable. Starting in 2025, Diggs is completely off the books, frees up about $25 million, and the Bills will have a very healthy cap situation going forward.

So yes, in the moment and in a vacuum, it looks and feels bad and everyone craps on the Bills. In the long run, I think they'll still be good and still make the playoffs this year, and then will be younger and cheaper and more dynamic going forward, and with a healthier cap situation to show for it.

....but the dead cap!