Hip drop tackle officially banned

[jkeerie]

1 hour ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

McKay said “mostly”…subtext: “Except when the Bills are in the divisional round, preferably attempting to bring down a Kansas City wide receiver, and imposition of the penalty would result in first and goal Kansas City, thusly ensuring a last second Patrick Mahomes win.”

They just had Dean Blandino on One Bills Live.  He talked about the potential new kick off rules...likely being tabled to the May meeting.  He also addressed the Hip drop tackle and confirmed that the initial enforcement will be through film reviews and fines, not flags...as it will be a learning curve for both players and the referees.

[MJS]

54 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

The hip drop wasnt even a thing 2 years ago and now half of you are acting like its part of the fabric of the game.

Exactly!! People just don't understand what this is. I was skeptical at first, but then I researched it. Now I'm convinced this is the right move.

[Augie]

3 hours ago, T master said:

So if you come in from behind for a tackle and hit the guy in the back to take him down is that a illegal hit in the back or a blind side tackle ? Not exactly sure how this is going to work & if enforced as such how many will just let the runner go in fear of being penalized or fined .

 

Has the league provided any video demonstrating what is allowed and what is not. Where do you draw the line? This sounds like a giant gray area, worse than “is that a catch?” 

[Process]

Scoring ^^^^^^

 

 

[The Wiz]

2 hours ago, sven233 said:

 

The problem I see with this is that a lot of these tackles happen by circumstance, not because players are trying to hurt each other.  Just about all these clips show the offensive player getting out in front of the defensive player so the defensive player has to grab the player and pull them to the ground.  I guess I am not seeing how, at full speed, they want the defensive player to tackle the guy that is trying to run away from them.  They can't go high because the offensive player will just run through it.  I guess they could try and trip them around the knees or ankles or something, but will that really limit injuries or will it create more?  This is going to result in a lot more broken tackles because offensive players are too big and strong to not just be wrapped up and dragged down.

 

I don't know.  I guess if they unanimously voted it out there must be a plan, but I just don't see a lot of ways to tackle a guy that gets ahead of you in open space without wrapping up.  It is a lot to ask of defensive players.

My first thought of this was when the Bills were playing the Patriots and Bruschi tried to make an arm tackle around someones ankles and ended up snapping his wrist like a twig.

[4merper4mer]

I’m sure this will be enforced equally on a team by team basis.

[LeGOATski]

19 minutes ago, jkeerie said:

They just had Dean Blandino on One Bills Live.  He talked about the potential new kick off rules...likely being tabled to the May meeting.  He also addressed the Hip drop tackle and confirmed that the initial enforcement will be through film reviews and fines, not flags...as it will be a learning curve for both players and the referees.

How ridiculous.

 

We've created a new rule that we assure you is completely justified, but we're not going to be able to enforce it in the game....because reasons.

 

That is absurd.

 

Can anyone think of another example where a league implemented a new rule, but didn't enforce it right away?

 

What a broken system.

 

Since they're announcing it now, they should've already done their homework and be able to implement it straight away. That's how a legitimate league would handle their business.

[LeGOATski]

 

It's not the rules that suck. It's the system. A system built to be a haven for the grey and the vague. A system willingly vulnerable to manipulation and corruption.

[Warriorspikes51]

NFL also stated this only averages around 1 per game and all 3 elements need to be met to be considered a penalty.  It sounds like it may be more fines than penalties

[VaMilBill]

3 hours ago, Saint Doug said:

I don’t understand how players are suppose to tackle anymore. 

I don’t understand how a player will tackle someone who they are trying to chase down from behind. 

[LeGOATski]

1 minute ago, VaMilBill said:

I don’t understand how a player will tackle someone who they are trying to chase down from behind. 

I guess they'll just keep doing it like they have for the past 100 years....

[Mat68]

4 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

NFL also stated this only averages around 1 per game and all 3 elements need to be met to be considered a penalty.  It sounds like it may be more fines than penalties

The play that injured Andrews. Levy a fine and move along.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

 

[DrDawkinstein]

19 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

How ridiculous.

 

We've created a new rule that we assure you is completely justified, but we're not going to be able to enforce it in the game....because reasons.

 

That is absurd.

 

Can anyone think of another example where a league implemented a new rule, but didn't enforce it right away?

 

What a broken system.

 

Since they're announcing it now, they should've already done their homework and be able to implement it straight away. That's how a legitimate league would handle their business.

 

It's not that it wont be enforced. It's how it will be enforced that is a little different.

 

But we already have this in the NFL. There are plenty of hits and behavior that doesnt get flagged in the moment, but gets fined later on.

 

And frankly, I'd rather have it that way than stopping the game and letting the refs influence the whole thing.

 

12 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

 

It's not the rules that suck. It's the system. A system built to be a haven for the grey and the vague. A system willingly vulnerable to manipulation and corruption.

 

Well if it's going to be enforced mostly through film and fines then it wont be very vulnerable to manipulation and corruption, so what more do you want?

 

 

Good video for everyone wondering what and why...

 

 

 

Edited March 25 by DrDawkinstein

[LeGOATski]

4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

It's not that it wont be enforced. It's how it will be enforced that is a little different.

 

But we already have this in the NFL. There are plenty of hits and behavior that doesnt get flagged in the moment, but gets fined later on.

 

And frankly, I'd rather have it that way than stopping the game and letting the refs influence the whole thing.

 

 

Well if it's going to be enforced mostly through film and fines then it wont be very vulnerable to manipulation and corruption, so what more do you want?

Like every other rule, it will be called in game. What other rule never gets called in game?

[Goin Breakdown]

I can see this being another one of those calls that benefit certain teams, bailing them out of less than desired situations. 
"Awesome, we held them. good win guys....wait, wth...."

"Illegal tackle, automatic first down"

The chiefs go on to score. Were all

mad because it wasn't called when they did a similar thing and so on. 

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, LeGOATski said:

Like every other rule, it will be called in game. What other rule never gets called in game?

 

Dean Blandino, Rick McKay, and Troy Vincent all say otherwise. They are initially going to address it through film review and fines before throwing flags. Sure, a blatantly obvious one that causes an injury will likely draw a flag, and rightfully so.

 

How often do they get horse collar tackles wrong, calling them when it wasnt a horse collar? Rarely if ever?

 

 

[LeGOATski]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Dean Blandino, Rick McKay, and Troy Vincent all say otherwise. They are initially going to address it through film review and fines before throwing flags. Sure, a blatantly obvious one that causes an injury will likely draw a flag, and rightfully so.

 

How often do they get horse collar tackles wrong, calling them when it wasnt a horse collar? Rarely if ever?

 

 

So, they WILL call them in game. Thanks.

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, LeGOATski said:

So, they WILL call them in game. Thanks.

 

And you will be FURIOUS about it!

[Buffalo716]

A hip drop is not a standard tackle

 

It does not even happen 10% of the time... Not even 5% of the time

 

And it's always been very dangerous...

 

You'll never see somebody like Ray Lewis hip drop tackle somebody because they know how to properly tackle

 

It's basically akin to grabbing a runner from the back... And dropping to a sitting position..  putting your entire body weight and force on to the back of his legs

 

While snapping his leg in half

Edited March 25 by Buffalo716

[BananaB]

Game keeps getting dumber and dumber

[Big Turk]

Playing defense just keeps getting harder. I mean pretty soon it's going to be if the receiver catches the ball they can't be touched and can just waltz into the endzone.

[LeGOATski]

45 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

And you will be FURIOUS about it!

And you'll be furious that I'M furious!

[frostbitmic]

Add another thing to make it more difficult for the Defense, why does anyone want to draft anything but Offense ?

[Jon in Pasadena]

4 hours ago, Motorin' said:

 

So how are you supposed to tackle a guy from behind. 

 

You wrap two arms and then what? 

 

You enjoy your 20 yard pony ride.

[Buffalo716]

This really only effects bad tacklers and players who play with bad technique

 

This will not impact the game that much because there are not a lot of players who hip drop tackle regularly.. again it's kind of a poor technique thing

 

If a player gets past you, diving for their ankles or grabbing a leg has been the way for a hundred years... Grabbing them and dropping your entire body weight onto their lower body has not been the technique and is very dangerous

 

That's not and has never been a good tackle.. always been semi dirty

1 hour ago, VaMilBill said:

I don’t understand how a player will tackle someone who they are trying to chase down from behind. 

The same way they did for a hundred years

 

You dive and grab there ankles or legs... You ankle pick them

 

Grabbing them from the back.. and using your leverage to drop down on them and take them down by snapping their legs is never been the way to tackle

Edited March 25 by Buffalo716

[Jauronimo]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

This really only effects bad tacklers and players who play with bad technique

 

This will not impact the game that much because there are not a lot of players who hip drop tackle regularly.. again it's kind of a poor technique thing

 

Some players don't want to square up correctly so they grab from the side and back and drop their body weight onto the opposing players lower body snapping their leg

 

That's not and has never been a good tackle.. always been semi dirty

The same way they did for a hundred years

 

You dive and grab there ankles or legs... You ankle pick them

 

Grabbing them from the back.. and using your leverage to drop down on them and take them down by snapping their legs is never been the way to tackle

Nahhh dude.  This hip drop thing which was never part of the game until recently is absolutely integral to the sport.  Without broken ankles it may as well be figure skating!

[stuvian]

Lingerie football is here

[peterpan]

5 hours ago, papazoid said:

way too many  injuries from hip drop tackles

 

reckless and dangerous....just like a horse collar tackle

 

will it be hard to apply with consistency from ref to ref....yes, just like lots of other rules

Can anyone name two players injured by the horse collar tackle? 
 

1: Terrell Ownens

2: ???!!!!??!?!?! 

58 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

This really only effects bad tacklers and players who play with bad technique

 

This will not impact the game that much because there are not a lot of players who hip drop tackle regularly.. again it's kind of a poor technique thing

 

If a player gets past you, diving for their ankles or grabbing a leg has been the way for a hundred years... Grabbing them and dropping your entire body weight onto their lower body has not been the technique and is very dangerous

 

That's not and has never been a good tackle.. always been semi dirty

The same way they did for a hundred years

 

You dive and grab there ankles or legs... You ankle pick them

 

Grabbing them from the back.. and using your leverage to drop down on them and take them down by snapping their legs is never been the way to tackle

I don’t know any football coach that teaches diving at ankles.  I know many that teach hit with the shoulder and wrap up with both arms. 

[Buffalo716]

19 minutes ago, peterpan said:

Can anyone name two players injured by the horse collar tackle? 
 

1: Terrell Ownens

2: ???!!!!??!?!?! 

I don’t know any football coach that teaches diving at ankles.  I know many that teach hit with the shoulder and wrap up with both arms. 

I'm talking when you're chasing someone from behind

 

For a hundred years the safe option was ankle picking or grabbing a leg.. 

 

Horse collar is illegal

 

Hip drop is grabbing them from the back... But then collapsing your body weight on to the back of their legs

 

You can't do that in a proper chest to chest tackle.. 

 

Hip drops are always from behind or from the side.. and it takes zero technique to just sit down your entire body weight on somebody's lower half

 

Nobody gets hip dropped from the front... It's always the back or side

 

Edited March 25 by Buffalo716

[oldmanfan]

Might as well just make it flag football.  

[Dr. Who]

6 hours ago, Saint Doug said:

I don’t understand how players are suppose to tackle anymore. 

Well, first the other fella has to sign a consent form.

[SirAndrew]

1 hour ago, Buffalo ill said:

When kc gets a game changing first down in the playoffs because a Bills db "hip drop tackles" Taylor Swift's boyfriend, I hope you stooges who support this will be happy.

Yep, and anyone thinking Josh Allen is going to get all these calls are fooling themselves. 

[hondo in seattle]

5 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

I think so. I've tackled people from behind without needing to curl up my body the way the defenders in that video do.

 

Sure.  But when you tackle, do you think, "This is a hip drop" as opposed to "This is a swivel hip drop"?   

I understand the risk of injury and the need for a rule.  But I also think most defenders are just trying to get the guy down, not trying to hurt anybody.  And the NFL rulebook keeps getting longer and more complicated.  

 

 

[FireChans]

3 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

NFL also stated this only averages around 1 per game and all 3 elements need to be met to be considered a penalty.  It sounds like it may be more fines than penalties

We have seen this happen before, it’s going to be a “point of emphasis” and will be called all the time, largely wrongly. 
 

@MJS do you remember the stupid “can’t put body weight” on the QB rule? The one that was a reactionary rule change because Rodgers broke his collarbone getting piled driver? They called it a bunch for two years, then the NFL community and refs realized how absolutely stupid it was and it’s basically never called now.

 

This penalty will go the same way (if they even assess it as a penalty.) it will be a hot topic for 2 years, ruin a couple games, everyone will realize it’s dumb, and it will go away.
 

 

[GoBills808]

2 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

This really only effects bad tacklers and players who play with bad technique

 

This will not impact the game that much because there are not a lot of players who hip drop tackle regularly.. again it's kind of a poor technique thing

 

If a player gets past you, diving for their ankles or grabbing a leg has been the way for a hundred years... Grabbing them and dropping your entire body weight onto their lower body has not been the technique and is very dangerous

 

That's not and has never been a good tackle.. always been semi dirty

The same way they did for a hundred years

 

You dive and grab there ankles or legs... You ankle pick them

 

Grabbing them from the back.. and using your leverage to drop down on them and take them down by snapping their legs is never been the way to tackle

correct

 

for the guys who never played- the hip drop they're trying to legislate out (we used to call it bulldogging in hs) is 100% the way you'd tackle someone you either didn't like or wanted to hurt

 

 

[LeGOATski]

1 minute ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Sure.  But when you tackle, do you think, "This is a hip drop" as opposed to "This is a swivel hip drop"?   

I understand the risk of injury and the need for a rule.  But I also think most defenders are just trying to get the guy down, not trying to hurt anybody.  And the NFL rulebook keeps getting longer and more complicated.  

 

 

By the examples in the video, there's a clear intent by tacklers to curl their lower body into the back of the runner's legs. It's a way to get all your weight on them and also trip them up. I do think they're just doing whatever they can to bring the guy down, but it's also more dangerous and something that can be cleaned up easily. 

 

Typically you just grab the runner and go limp, your legs stay behind you. You either drag them down by the waist or you slide down and wrap up their legs.

 

Maybe people are confusing wrapping up the legs with a hip drop tackle. These things are not the same. So tacklers from behind can still wrap up a runner and it won't be called.... Ideally (We all know refs will screw this up.)

[JerseyBills]

What are the odds this penalty goes against the Bills in a big game? 

[MJS]

56 minutes ago, FireChans said:

We have seen this happen before, it’s going to be a “point of emphasis” and will be called all the time, largely wrongly. 
 

@MJS do you remember the stupid “can’t put body weight” on the QB rule? The one that was a reactionary rule change because Rodgers broke his collarbone getting piled driver? They called it a bunch for two years, then the NFL community and refs realized how absolutely stupid it was and it’s basically never called now.

 

This penalty will go the same way (if they even assess it as a penalty.) it will be a hot topic for 2 years, ruin a couple games, everyone will realize it’s dumb, and it will go away.

No, I think it will be like the horse collar tackle. Players will adapt and stop tackling that way, except rarely, like the horse collar.

 

And I think players adapted to the body weight rule (which I do think is ridiculous and should be removed. A QB should be able to be tackled just like any other player. I'm not a proponent of protecting QB's. I think all players should be treated roughly the same. I'm also not a big fan of the defenseless receiver rule, apart from head shots. Head shots should be illegal regardless of position). You see guys try to let up instead of driving them into the ground like they used to. So, I would say it had the intended impact, even though I don't agree with it.

12 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

What are the odds this penalty goes against the Bills in a big game? 

Very small if the Bills tackle correctly. Very high if they tackle illegally.

 

I do wish that this is reviewable, however. But it won't be, since it is a penalty.

Edited March 25 by MJS

[MJS]

1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Sure.  But when you tackle, do you think, "This is a hip drop" as opposed to "This is a swivel hip drop"?   

I understand the risk of injury and the need for a rule.  But I also think most defenders are just trying to get the guy down, not trying to hurt anybody.  And the NFL rulebook keeps getting longer and more complicated.  

The way you do it legally is you drop your butt to the ground instead of launching your body into the player. It is just as effective and does not injure players. You see it in rugby.

 

The clear indicator of the illegal version is if you leave your feet and pull yourself into the player you are tackling. It causes a really awkward twist of the player and you usually land with all your weight on one or both of their legs. The allowed version you don't see them leave their feet like that.

 

This is an actual technique that people do on purpose. It is not generally something that just happens by accident. It is a relatively recent technique that players are using.

 

Here's a good video:

 

Edited March 25 by MJS