HardyBoy Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Is Hopkins available? 14 minutes ago, Jim said: Yet Harrison Butker seemed to do fine in that same stadium. And while Bass missed in the mess in Philly, Jake Elliott was nailing 50 plus yarders in the rain. Once again in Buffalo we settle for good enough and reward that instead of looking for better. Our hope for next season is literally just that, hope. There’s no reason to think this ####### is gonna be any better next year, especially after ending our season this year. But yeah sure, he’s just gonna “bounce back” just like Gabe after his “ankle injury” last year. Do you have any actual insight into why Bass had a down year? I know that 95%-99% of us have no idea what we're truly watching, because football is so damn complex, but I'd argue that number jumps to 99.9% when it comes to kickers and punters (I’ve read that most coaches and gms have no idea what they're watching when it comes to kickers and punters). Normally I don't point that out this directly, but you seem so confident that you actually know something about what you're talking about, but I'm probably 95% safe to say you have absolutely no idea and are just group thinking with the other 95% of people without trying to understand the situation and actually try and cobble some type of insight by listening to people who know what they're talking about on the subject and synergizing ideas together. And it's all good, I'm not really judging how you do sports, have at it and have fun...I don't do it that way, I don't agree with that approach and when it gets too noisy and group thinky I push back, but enjoy your hobby as you see fit as long as you're not like sending threats to Bass or anything...my one recommendation is to realize it's something that's happening (feeling very confident that you're right about something you don't really know anything about, with a huge group of other people), because sports is one thing, but be mindful of it in other areas of life because it can be a treacherous path in other areas of life. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauleeeWalnuts Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Bass choked, it’s a common theme of the Bills. What are ya gonna do 🤷🏻♂️ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 (edited) 24 minutes ago, HardyBoy said: Is Hopkins available? Do you have any actual insight into why Bass had a down year? I know that 95%-99% of us have no idea what we're truly watching, because football is so damn complex, but I'd argue that number jumps to 99.9% when it comes to kickers and punters (I’ve read that most coaches and gms have no idea what they're watching when it comes to kickers and punters). Normally I don't point that out this directly, but you seem so confident that you actually know something about what you're talking about, but I'm probably 95% safe to say you have absolutely no idea and are just group thinking with the other 95% of people without trying to understand the situation and actually try and cobble some type of insight by listening to people who know what they're talking about on the subject and synergizing ideas together. And it's all good, I'm not really judging how you do sports, have at it and have fun...I don't do it that way, I don't agree with that approach and when it gets too noisy and group thinky I push back, but enjoy your hobby as you see fit as long as you're not like sending threats to Bass or anything...my one recommendation is to realize it's something that's happening (feeling very confident that you're right about something you don't really know anything about, with a huge group of other people), because sports is one thing, but be mindful of it in other areas of life because it can be a treacherous path in other areas of life. I have zero true beef with Bass and would never, ever personally attack an athlete or any other person with a threat, physical or otherwise. But I do think the whole Buffalo Bills way of coddling these half-assed players cuz they are “nice guys” means we get teams full of lovely guys who suck. Also, of course I have no special insight on Bass or any other player. But I do see a player who looked worse and worse during the season, culminating with him driving a stake into the heart of our season. Why should I have any hope he’s gonna bounce back? Cuz Brandon Beane says so? 16 minutes ago, PauleeeWalnuts said: Bass choked, it’s a common theme of the Bills. What are ya gonna do 🤷🏻♂️ So true. That’s what Buffalo is. Our guys are chokers. Bruce Smith, Jim Kelly, Marv Levy, Thurman Thomas. Now Josh Allen, Stef Diggs and Sean McDermott. I would add people like Dawson Knox or Gabe Davis to the list, but the truth is they aren’t really chokers. They are just guys who were never good enough in the first place that we convinced ourselves could be champions. Edited February 13 by Jim 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 29 minutes ago, Jim said: Yet Harrison Butker seemed to do fine in that same stadium. And while Bass missed in the mess in Philly, Jake Elliott was nailing 50 plus yarders in the rain. Once again in Buffalo we settle for good enough and reward that instead of looking for better. Our hope for next season is literally just that, hope. There’s no reason to think this ####### is gonna be any better next year, especially after ending our season this year. But yeah sure, he’s just gonna “bounce back” just like Gabe after his “ankle injury” last year. Butker and Elliott are better kickers, imo, but that’s not the point. The point is that Highmark is the worst stadium in the league to kick in. The wind conditions are notorious for their unpredictability as they often blow in opposite directions in one end zone vs. the other and the swirling winds can literally change from the time you’re lining up to kick to the time you kick the ball. As such, unless he was battling an undisclosed injury of some sort, I wouldn’t expect radical improvement from Bass, especially later in the season when the winds off the lake really pick up steam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 3 hours ago, JJGauna said: Bass earned his contract at the time, he had a down year no doubt, hopefully he rebounds this year. he will get his mojo back! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trev Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 When is beane going to be responsible for these crazy contracts. Von, Knox, Bass. Three strikes and you’re out. Can we have some accountability on this team? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 3 hours ago, Big Blitz said: No one had a problem with this after his 2022 season. I was pretty skeptical of it at the time as im not just saying this now. Kickers are so up and down in the nfl and there's really only a couple guys you can trust year in and year out. While bass was "good" his first 3 years, he was never really a top tier kicker IMO Why not just let him play out the 4th year of his contract and then make a decision from there? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 3 hours ago, st pete gogolak said: Interesting to take a quick look at kicker salaries. Tucker makes $6 million, Bass $5, Butker and Elliot $4. A few mediocre kickers make more than Bass. The real deal is the rookie on Dallas who makes 55 yarders like they are extra points. He makes less than $1. 30 years ago, Jimmy Johnson said that kickers are fungible. Not sure if that is true anymore. These days, you better have someone who you are comfortable putting out there to make 50+ yarders. If you do, you pay him. If you don’t, you don’t ( or shouldn’t). He needs a raise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 3 hours ago, VaMilBill said: I think we need to move on from Bass while we can without actually hurting us in games. That means drafting a kicker. Take the cap hit. Can’t go into The season with a terrible kicker with the yips. You’re only as good as your last season IMO Completely agree with this. Kickers are so important in the playoffs. You cannot win a Super Bowl with a shaky kicker. The margin is so close in these playoff games and most of the good teams have kickers who are automatic out to 55 yards. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78thealltimegreat Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 I would think at a minimum the Bills would bring in competition for Bass. He just didn’t look right most of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 In the NFL, that is pocket change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 9 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said: I would think at a minimum the Bills would bring in competition for Bass. He just didn’t look right most of the year. They won't. Or in true Bills style, it'll just be for looks. Some kicker that has zero chance of beating him out, just so they can say, "see we wanted to push Tyler to be the best kicker he can be!" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 4 hours ago, NoSaint said: kickers often come back around. I’m still curious if there’s more to the story here. It still doesn’t add up fully in my opinion. I thought he was hurt all year. Seemed like he wasnt comfortable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Just now, Captain Hindsight said: I thought he was hurt all year. Seemed like he wasnt comfortable Of course, anytime anybody is playing like ***** for Buffalo they are "hurt" (just like Diggs, Davis, Elam, etc). It's never that they might just have been playing like absolute garbage and that the team didn't do better to upgrade, its just fate that they got hurt and hey, there's nothing we can do about that, golly gee! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 7 minutes ago, Jim said: Of course, anytime anybody is playing like ***** for Buffalo they are "hurt" (just like Diggs, Davis, Elam, etc). It's never that they might just have been playing like absolute garbage and that the team didn't do better to upgrade, its just fate that they got hurt and hey, there's nothing we can do about that, golly gee! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJGauna Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 3 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said: Did he though? He has not had a lot of pressure kick opportunities. I have never felt super confident with him. He hit an upright in Detroit when the pressure was in but it went though. I’d say so in 2021 and 2022 he was converting 87% of his kicks. Great accuracy especially 40+ yards (18 for 23.) Bass has a powerful leg and can probably make a 60 yarder. He could be better and definitely showed signs of regression this season. If he doesn’t miss against KC this topic probably doesn’t exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 42 minutes ago, Jim said: Of course, anytime anybody is playing like ***** for Buffalo they are "hurt" (just like Diggs, Davis, Elam, etc). It's never that they might just have been playing like absolute garbage and that the team didn't do better to upgrade, its just fate that they got hurt and hey, there's nothing we can do about that, golly gee! sometimes yes, sometimes no. if Josh started struggling to get it 30 yards downfield I’d worry he had something physical and not just a mental issue. how bass was handled down the stretch seemed more akin to that than say Josh making bad reads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Sack Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Draft a K and actually give him a shot at earning the job. Bass appeared to lose it this year, and the leg looks shot. Not a surprise considering he’s 27 and a smaller guy who has to put everything he has to create the power a bigger stronger legged kicker can create. In soccer Bass is the size of a small midfielder. Look at the good kickers, they are the size of the biggest soccer players 6’ + with much stronger legs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiracleAtRich1393 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 4 hours ago, jkeerie said: Butker should demand a huge raise! You could argue he is just as valuable as any TE, WR, or defensive player. And he should hold out until he gets it! Agreed they should prioritize him over Chris Jones for sure. Let Jones walk! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Sack Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Current NFL Kickers Butker 6’4” 199 309/327 .945 Aubrey 6’3” 208 36/38 .947 Folk 6’1” 225 382/456 .838 Fairbairn 6’ 183 175/201 .871 Dicker 6’1” 216 50/53 .945 Tucker 6’1” 188 395/438 .902 Bass 5’10” 185 107/126 .849 Historically Great Kickers Mort Andersen 6’2 225 565/709 (.797) Gostkowski 6’1 215 392/454 (.863) Vinatieri 6’ 212 599/715 (.838) Hanson 6’ 190 495/601 (.824) Gary Anderson 5’11 193 538/672 (.801) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 5 hours ago, Bob Jones said: So what? How much does Josh Allen make, and how many screw ups did he have this year? What about Stephon Diggs? I could go on and on. And I’m 100% positive that you could go around the league, and on each team, find guys who have had a down year and who are making way more than what “they are worth.” This topic is funny, it really is. This isn’t a charity we’re running here. The guy was an absolute liability down the stretch and, while I doubt our defense would get the stop, he effectively ended our season. The margins are too slim against KC in the playoffs and we already have enough guys letting down Allen .. nevermind adding a paid kicker to that list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 IIRC he took a cheap shot from a Jets player several years back and was never quite the same. I might be misremembering that though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 So I hate to point this out but kickers have bad years There is a reason why Bass was called Bassomatic for a number of years and got a new contract People need to calm the ***** down 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 6 hours ago, JJGauna said: I’d say so in 2021 and 2022 he was converting 87% of his kicks. Great accuracy especially 40+ yards (18 for 23.) Bass has a powerful leg and can probably make a 60 yarder. He could be better and definitely showed signs of regression this season. If he doesn’t miss against KC this topic probably doesn’t exist. When. I compare him to Tucker. Butger and a few others I don’t think he is in that class. but he is paid like it. There are 7 active guys who have averaged 87% for their career. Some of those play in domes for home games so that factors in. My comment is more about exuding confidence under pressure. Bass makes me nervous. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/fg_perc_career.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Returntoglory Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 11 hours ago, VaMilBill said: I think we need to move on from Bass while we can without actually hurting us in games. That means drafting a kicker. Take the cap hit. Can’t go into The season with a terrible kicker with the yips. You’re only as good as your last season IMO Too late... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Kickers are a rare breed. Their performance year on year has a much higher variance than most other positions. I think the Bills should bring in competition and have a proper kicking battle but I don't rule out a bounce back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoudyBills Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 12 hours ago, Big Blitz said: No one had a problem with this after his 2022 season. Let's just act like 2023 didn't happen. Great solution. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjv Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Is Beane just generous, or is there a reason it appears we overpay for our roster compared to other teams. Case in point, KC is 22.6 mil under the cap. Bills are 51 mil over the cap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 so joe marino had a couple good breakdowns of kcs roster and ours. they didn't REALLY draft so much better than we did since like 2019 or 2020 -- better but they had more picks from trading hill and such. anyhow, the real difference between us and them is they let aging vets walk. i don't know that knox counts as an aging vet, but they also let some above replacement guys walk if they think they can replace them w picks. bass, knox, poy, hyde, diggs, these are contracts that they almost certainly would not have gotten trapped under. i think white back when he was extended would have been extended by them as well, and i think us signing von is similar to the top dollars they have paid for OTs. they have also traded picks for players just like we have, and they have had hits and misses on picks like us. i think they might have skipped out on long deals for von aged guys, but we will see w chris jones and the like. so our teams are super close, but our cap is not because mcbean love love love old slow expensive d guys. i think part and parcel of that is his allergy to playing young guys, hence dorian williams only had a chance to stop one drive in the divisional round while aj klien hummed jimmy buffet songs from 5 yards back. 5 yards back from the correct gap, mind you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 I remember watching a YouTube video of the Bills being interviewed in the lockerroom directly after SB25. The WKBW reporter was talking to Norwood. He was talking about the missed kick and the mechanics that went through his head. This was probably within 30 mins of the game ending. I just think, wow you miss a kick that big it has to weigh on your mind for every future big kick. That's what worries me about Bass. That miss vs KC cut him deep. Will he overthink future kick? Will he improve or decline as his career goes on. Must be nice to have a kicker like Butker who never seems to miss a big kick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaMilBill Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 14 hours ago, JJGauna said: If he doesn’t miss against KC this topic probably doesn’t exist. Disagree. He was bad in the regular season. Cost us the Eagles and Patriots (first matchup) games. Against the Steelers he was even worse. The KC game wasn’t as bad because even if he made that kick, we probably still lose based on how much time was left. 13 hours ago, The Red King said: IIRC he took a cheap shot from a Jets player several years back and was never quite the same. I might be misremembering that though. That was carpenter 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FilthyBeast Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 One of the biggest criticisms I've had with Beane is that he's made some very poor extensions, especially in the case of Bass, Knox, etc because there's virtually no way for this team to get out of these deals now. I guess with Bass you still have to give him the benefit of the doubt since it's only one bad season. Also I still don't blame him for missing a game tying field goal because it should have never happened and a real head coach would have known that you had to go for that 4th down in those circumstances because even if Bass ties the game, Mahomes and the Chiefs just make a few plays to get in FG range to win it anyway, with tons of time left on the clock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaMilBill Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 2 hours ago, zow2 said: I remember watching a YouTube video of the Bills being interviewed in the lockerroom directly after SB25. The WKBW reporter was talking to Norwood. He was talking about the missed kick and the mechanics that went through his head. This was probably within 30 mins of the game ending. I just think, wow you miss a kick that big it has to weigh on your mind for every future big kick. That's what worries me about Bass. That miss vs KC cut him deep. Will he overthink future kick? Will he improve or decline as his career goes on. Must be nice to have a kicker like Butker who never seems to miss a big kick. It’s not only that miss against KC. It’s the collection of absolute duds he had last season. Even if he goes on a great run, he will still have in the back of his mind, “what if I start sucking again?” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWATeam Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 6 minutes ago, VaMilBill said: That was carpenter lol, you’re both wrong. It was house money 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheyCallMeAndy Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 (edited) You know what’s funny? Last season HB connected on 75% of his FGs. It’s almost like you should let good kickers have the chance to bounce back… Edited February 13 by TheyCallMeAndy 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 19 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said: Why don't we wait till someone is actually good before we throw money at him with these extensions. And maybe the wind will stop blowing in Orchard Park... ...Won't we get wind baffles soon enough? 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 2 hours ago, zow2 said: I remember watching a YouTube video of the Bills being interviewed in the lockerroom directly after SB25. The WKBW reporter was talking to Norwood. He was talking about the missed kick and the mechanics that went through his head. This was probably within 30 mins of the game ending. I just think, wow you miss a kick that big it has to weigh on your mind for every future big kick. That's what worries me about Bass. That miss vs KC cut him deep. Will he overthink future kick? Will he improve or decline as his career goes on. Must be nice to have a kicker like Butker who never seems to miss a big kick. https://arrowheadaddict.com/2022/12/20/kc-chiefs-harrison-butker-become-liability/ https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2022/12/20/23519218/chiefs-harrison-butker-defends-tommy-townsend-holder-controversy Because he was cheating too... https://www.footballzebras.com/2023/01/officials-told-to-watch-for-illegal-foreign-objects-used-for-fg-and-xp-attempts/ Maybe Bass needs to build his confidence up by cheating... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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