What are your feelings on James Cook RB1

[BarleyNY]

22 hours ago, BillMafia716ix said:

How you guys feeling on James Cook as a number 1 back? With Brady taking over full time James Cook should see an increase workload. Fumbles and drops have been an issue with him though. I still think he’s too small to be an every down back. Personally I would like to see use him like Detroit uses Gibbs and find a quality #2. I like Ty Johnson but could we find better?

 

I think we are in very good shape with Cook as RB1. I like him a lot in that role. But we need a quality RB2. Joe Marino talked about this on Locked On Bills on the RB episode. Cook had over 300 touches (315 IiRC). That is about double his next highest year, including college. He clearly broke down late in the season and in the playoffs and was less efficient overall - and more prone to drops. Notably his workload increased under Brady so this happened even with a lighter load in the first 10 games. So if Brady’s offense is going to utilize the RB as much as it did last season, getting a quality RB2 is of paramount importance. We could also use a good short yardage back whether that’s part of our RB2’s skill set or our RB3’s.

Edited February 9 by BarleyNY

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, ddaryl said:

him dropping passes is worrisome.

 

They are concentration drops though. His hands are pretty good. The number of time Josh checked down to him this year and he held the ball despite getting levelled as he caught it was considerable. It is just concentration especially in the redzone. 

[QB Bills]

He's not a heady player. Not devoid of talent but he's the kind of guy that will always have you worried that a terrible mistake is just around the corner and will lose you the game.

 

He would have fit in well with the drought era Bills among guys like McKelvin and Spiller.

[T master]

I think in his exit interviews Beane & McD told him that he really needs to emphasize his work on the jugs machine this off season !! 

[Gregg]

He is a good player. He has things to work on this offseason like every player does. But for the first time in a long time the Bills had a running game besides #17. 

[colin]

he has a couple of well mentioned bad habits, but unless they persist over time we have to assume they can be corrected.

 

he was super productive for us, and we had really good drives where we featured him.

 

he might not be as "good" as a lot of guys (say 12?  i dunno) but at the end of the day we need production.  he's very productive.  that's why knox kinda blows and kinkaid is great, dawson doesn't produce and Kinkaid does.  that's also why diggs' contract is so bloody concerning (von miller too obv).  in the case of stef, he is still really good over the last season, but his production late and particularly in the playoffs is cheeks.  

 

this is also why we'd like to keep floyd and or aj, they are productive albeit not consistently and clearly not game changing players.  i think KC copied the rams model, when we kinda have to copy, where you focus on a few total super stars and rely on them, and then everyone else can get filled in by whoever performs, including rookies and cheaper FA players.

 

KC even let a true super star (hill) go because they realized the cost of keeping him (30 a year!, like 25% more than we pay diggs but for a player is much more than 25% better IMO) vs what they get getting rid of him (a pick from miami, and all that juicy juicy cap space).  our signing of miller and so on obv ended up hurting us, but i really think our biggest mistakes were in contracts we paid to extend guys we already had (diggs, knox, keeping poy and hyde a season too long, etc).

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

11 hours ago, Chaos said:

He was not particularly effective in the Redzone. 

https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/red-zone-stats/rb.php?range=full

 

 

 

Wow. Thanks for posting this. I toggled over to QB, and you can really see how dominant Allen was on the ground inside the red zone. His YPA at 4.06 would have him in the top 10 of RB's. He also had 33 attempts which is top 25 for RB's and in the ball park ( 30 - 36 red zone attempts each) of Gibbs, Aaron Jones, Jacobs, Jonthan Taylor and Henry. All of whom had YPC in the red zone under 3.0 accept for Jones and Gibbs at 3.3

 

Among QB's Allen's YPA was double Hurts and about 0.2 higher than Lamar's.

 

Some want to knock Allen for his 15 rushing TD's with about 5 of them being tush pushes this year, nearly all of them 5 coming in the final 5 games of the season too for some reason. But his rushing success in the red zone puts him on par with the good running backs in the league. Nobody would knock a RB for carrying the ball and doing well in the red zone. 

[ddaryl]

31 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They are concentration drops though. His hands are pretty good. The number of time Josh checked down to him this year and he held the ball despite getting levelled as he caught it was considerable. It is just concentration especially in the redzone. 

Yeah.. I know there was 1 game where I thought we were seeing the 2nd coming of Thruman Thomas... But the drops I remember after that game we're like you said  "concentration" drops because he was so wide open and yet the ball hit the ground.

hopefully he can fix it, but like Knox I worry

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

39 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Cook, statistically averaged 2 yards after contact and had 482 yards after contact on the season. 
 

For a 200 pound RB, that isn’t bad. 

 

Yeah, I thought he was actually really good picking up tough yards. It may have been the first New England game that we blew where I really noticed he was turning carries that should have been stopped for no gain into 3-4 yard gains consistently. 

[Mister Defense]

12 hours ago, BillMafia716ix said:

How you guys feeling on James Cook as a number 1 back? With Brady taking over full time James Cook should see an increase workload. Fumbles and drops have been an issue with him though. I still think he’s too small to be an every down back. Personally I would like to see use him like Detroit uses Gibbs and find a quality #2. I like Ty Johnson but could we find better?

 

I think the lack of talk about the need for a very high quality back in the draft or free agency is missing element of off season talk so far.

 

Cook is great, will be a  superb weapon.

 

But he will be much better, more dynamic, and last a lot longer once the Bills get a young, PHYSICAL back, who could block well, to compliment him.  You can't just keep using Cook as that type of back, as he is very slight, one of the smallest backs I have seen in the NFL--not a pound it into the line kind of back, not a wear down the defense physically kind of back.

 

While fans have not said much about this, the Bills' commitment to the running game with Brady, indicate to me they know how important of a need this is. 

I am confident that they will aggressively pursue this need in the off season.

 

Johnson is also a good 3rd back to have and I assume they will resign him as well.

 

 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

11 hours ago, BillMafia716ix said:

How you guys feeling on James Cook as a number 1 back? With Brady taking over full time James Cook should see an increase workload. Fumbles and drops have been an issue with him though. I still think he’s too small to be an every down back. Personally I would like to see use him like Detroit uses Gibbs and find a quality #2. I like Ty Johnson but could we find better?

Couldn't agree with u more he needs to be used like Gibbs. He also needs some serious time working on the jugs machine this off-season as well as working with Josh Allen and getting there timing down. 

 

Cook is not built for 325 touches maybe 200-240 the most but anything over that is to much. He wore down towards the end of the season and his play dropped drastically. He can use another 5-10 lbs of muscle but on that frame not sure its douable. 

 

I truly believe Cook season was not necessarily because he's great at RB but because he's a product of Josh Allen and fact that we see less 6 man boxes then any team in the NFL not only that but the oline was awesome this season. Now I won't take away from him that he did get much better last off-season and that he'll probably even get better this off-season but I'm a true believe if the Bills had an elite RB he would be much better and would make more of a difference for us then Cook had vs the Chiefs in the playoffs. Now does that mean we should try to sign Barkley? I'm not on board with that because of his price but that shouldn't hold the Bills back from trying to find a better player in the mid to late rds of the draft or to bring in someone to compete with him via free agency. 

[KentuckyBillsFan]

Good player but I don't think he's a long term 3 down back. Bills should invest in a mid-late round RB pick in my opinion. Gladly welcome the Bills finally making a competent running game a focus.

[Deadstroke]

100%

[Don Otreply]

12 hours ago, Westside said:

He seems to disappear in games. I would love to see more consistent next year.

He doesn’t disappear, his usage disappears at times. This comes back to personnel usage discussions we see brought up here with some regularity. The usage “issue” is part in parcel of why our offense looks disjointed/awkward at times. It is on the OC and his staff to utilize our “weapons” in a seamless fashion, it comes down to play design ,play call sequences and situational awareness.  Dorsey was pounded for his inability to achieve those things with regularity.  Situational  awareness during games is key to keeping the offense humming, it is my belief/hope that Brady and Company will achieve a higher level of situational awareness during games and call plays that in turn benefit the following plays that are called…, a guy can hope right? 

[Realist]

57 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They are concentration drops though. His hands are pretty good. The number of time Josh checked down to him this year and he held the ball despite getting levelled as he caught it was considerable. It is just concentration especially in the redzone. 

I believe all of his drops were when he had running room, not when he was about to get hit. It seems like he's looking where to go before he pulls in the ball. Agree, concentration issue.

[PBF81]

Apart from the Dallas game where the entire team was hitting on all cylinders, Cook averaged a pathetic 3.7 yards-per-carry under Brady.

 

We'll see whether that continues.

 

Any perceived increase in team rushing production came from Allen.

 

It is what it is.  

 

 

Edited February 8 by PBF81

[Logic]

I like Cook a lot. 

He had 1500 yards from scrimmage and six touchdowns. That's a VERY good running back season in the 2024 NFL!

What I'd like to see going forward to get as much mileage out of him as humanly possible is this:

1. Draft or sign a high quality RB2. Yes, I like Ty Johnson. He's a very good RB3. I'd like a 1b to Cook's 1a, solely because with Cook's size, I'd like to keep him fresh and healthy. Cook, while talented, is also not a great red zone running back, and having JOSH ALLEN SMASH be your primary red zone run play is not sustainable long term.

 

2. Draft and sign downfield receiving threats and spend the offseason scheming up the deep game and attempting to fix the "no explosive plays" problem that crept in this season. As the downfield passing game opens up, there should be more room for Cook to operate in the running (and short passing) game.

 

And lastly...has anyone else noticed that the dude seems to have loosened up, dropped his shoulders, and actually smiles and seems to be having fun now? Love that. 

The future is bright for James Cook. It'll be even brighter if we get him a complimentary back and a deep passing game.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

Definitely a number #1 in the current NFL. The current model seems to be "by committee" unless you have a special back, and honestly CMC and Cook fall into that category. Even they have #2 support. Solid #2 hard running options are usually cheap to pick up (see Damien Harris and Ty Johnson)

[bigK14094]

13 hours ago, Beast said:

 Cook was 3rd in yards from scrimmage for all running backs. What else needs to be said?

What about turnover ranking though?

[phypon]

He's a bargain on a rookie contract.  Easily replaceable and nothing exceptional.  When a practice squad guy can come in and pick up the more difficult yardage you let him test the market when the time comes.  I know, his brother that put him on the map also has the same last name. He's not elite, he's adequate.  Has some fumbling and catching issues.  He's fine for now, but he's no Thurman Thomas.  I'd prefer a bruising back as the number 1 and a back like cook as the number 2.

[phypon]

@WhitewalkerInPhilly. If you think Cook is Thurman Thomas, I don't want what you're smoking.  Cook is Singletary 2.0.  Unfortunately, Pacheco is > Cook.  

[BuffaloBillyG]

31 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

Definitely a number #1 in the current NFL. The current model seems to be "by committee" unless you have a special back, and honestly CMC and Cook fall into that category. Even they have #2 support. Solid #2 hard running options are usually cheap to pick up (see Damien Harris and Ty Johnson)

Cook is a very talented player. Not debating that at all. But putting him into the same sentence as CMC is laughable. Cook has all the skill to be a productive, useful and popular player. But he's someone that's destined to fall back into a committee backfield unless he can clean up:

 

-Drops

-Fumbles

-And just as important: Pass Protection

 

There are going to be several guys that could be an inexpensive #2 RB that would make sense for the Bills to sign. Possible FAs this year include familiar faces (Zach Moss and Motor) as well as guys that have past success against the Bills (CEH: who also has spent time with Joe Brady). Wouldn't shock me if one of them are back to take some responsibility off Cook.

 

I definitely think Cook has a prominent role on the offense, but seems like he's a guy that may be able to be more explosive with fewer touches (similar to the Dolphins Achane)

Edited February 8 by BuffaloBillyG

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

19 minutes ago, phypon said:

@WhitewalkerInPhilly. If you think Cook is Thurman Thomas, I don't want what you're smoking.  Cook is Singletary 2.0.  Unfortunately, Pacheco is > Cook.  

 

6 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Cook is a very talented player. Not debating that at all. But putting him into the same sentence as CMC is laughable. Cook has all the skill to be a productive, useful and popular player. But he's someone that's destined to fall back into a committee backfield unless he can clean up:

 

-Drops

-Fumbles

-And just as important: Pass Protection

 

There are going to be several guys that could be an inexpensive #2 RB that would make sense for the Bills to sign. Possible FAs this year include familiar faces (Zach Moss and Motor) as well as guys that have past success against the Bills (CEH: who also has spent time with Joe Brady). Wouldn't shock me if one of them are back to take some responsibility off Cook.

 

I definitely think Cook has a prominent role on the offense, but seems like he's a guy that may be able to be more explosive with fewer touches (similar to the Dolphins Achane)

 

Delicious brisket. Possibly some wings this weekend.

 

And note, I said current NFL. Name the current bellcow backs in the NFL. Derrick Henry? Joe Mixon? Saquon Barkley? Cook had 45 less rushing yards than Henry (not counting receiving) and ran for more than Mixon, Barkley and Pacheco.

 

This is the model of the current NFL. Derrick Henry is probably this generation's epitome of a bellcow back, probably the highest standard of an every down rusher and he might be out of the league next year. The model right now for smashmouth football is the Niners. Right now I would say that Cook isn't Singletary 2.0, he's a poor man's CMC. Not as good, but that he had a year roughly in the same stratosphere are CMC is pretty darn good, and that we can work on a niche for that in our schemes.

[HankBulloughMellencamp]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

I like Cook a lot. 

He had 1500 yards from scrimmage and six touchdowns. That's a VERY good running back season in the 2024 NFL!

 

That's a Pro Bowl RB in his year 2!

 

And will be playing for relative peanuts for two more seasons!

 

Agree on keeping Ty Johnson around, a perfect RB3 "spell" guy to complement Cook's role. On a decent gain, you don't have to really change what play you'd call next if Cook should need to come out for a blow.

 

Cook's drops are an easier fix, as they are mostly concentration issues when he is wide open. I do think he has good, natural hands otherwise. Different from a guy like Dawson Knox and his seemingly 33% drop rate, which I believe boils down to just not having very good hands. Fights the ball too much. Not a natural set of mitts.

Edited February 8 by HankBulloughMellencamp

[Logic]

Just now, HankBulloughMellencamp said:

 

That's a Pro Bowl RB in his year 2!

 

And will be playing for relative peanuts for two more seasons!

 

Agree on keeping Ty Johnson around, a perfect RB3 "spell" guy to complement Cook's role. On a decent gain, you don't have to really change what play you'd call next if Cook should need to come out for a blow.

 

Cook's drops are an easier fix, as they are mostly concentration issues when he is wide open. I do think he has good, natural hands otherwise. Different from a guy like Dawson Knox and his seemingly 33% drop rate, which I believe boils down to just not having very good hands. Fights the ball too much. not a natural set of mitts.

Agreed on not being concerned about Cook in the passing game moving forward. In fact, I'd like to seem get even MORE involved in the passing game.

Once Joe Brady came aboard, we started to see more wheel routes and isolation matchups on linebackers where Cook went deep. We also saw him more meaningfully and consistently be targeted on swing routes.

I think there's actually a lot of meat left on the bone with regard to usage of Cook in the passing game. I think he can be even MORE productive there with a full offseason of Brady installing his own offense. It is my hope that Cook continues to be heavily involved in the offensive gameplan as a pass catching target.

[LABILLBACKER]

25 minutes ago, HankBulloughMellencamp said:

 

That's a Pro Bowl RB in his year 2!

 

And will be playing for relative peanuts for two more seasons!

 

Agree on keeping Ty Johnson around, a perfect RB3 "spell" guy to complement Cook's role. On a decent gain, you don't have to really change what play you'd call next if Cook should need to come out for a blow.

 

Cook's drops are an easier fix, as they are mostly concentration issues when he is wide open. I do think he has good, natural hands otherwise. Different from a guy like Dawson Knox and his seemingly 33% drop rate, which I believe boils down to just not having very good hands. Fights the ball too much. not a natural set of mitts.

I hate to break this to fans but Cook's drop problems are NOT easily fixable. He drops easy passes because he doesn't focus. This isn't a technique or physicality issue.  Rolling in a jugs will not solve this.  Obviously we're all rooting for him to improve the fumbles (4) and dropped tds (4). But it's only happening with a sense of mental focus.

[JaCrispy]

14 hours ago, BillMafia716ix said:

How you guys feeling on James Cook as a number 1 back? With Brady taking over full time James Cook should see an increase workload. Fumbles and drops have been an issue with him though. I still think he’s too small to be an every down back. Personally I would like to see use him like Detroit uses Gibbs and find a quality #2. I like Ty Johnson but could we find better?

Probably not, at the same price

[hondo in seattle]

Before the season, I thought of Cook as a third-down back who would be a good safety valve out of the backfield.

 

He's a better runner than I thought.  Good vision and burst.  Effective up the middle which I doubted.

 

But he's a worse receiver than I thought.  The drops were killer.  

 

 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

He's good but not great. I think his stats this year were mostly a result of being healthy and playing on a good offense. 

 

1) Drops. 4 easy TDs dropped this season

 

2) Fumbles

 

3) Unwillingly to lower his head for extra yards. He had a few plays this year where he made a 'business decision' to quit on plays rather than try to plow ahead for a 1st. Not a good look when your teams QB is looking for more contact than your RB1 

 

Mildly disappointing for a 2nd rd RB pick, but he's fine for now. No need to look for an upgrade until his rookie contract is up

[PayDaBill$]

15 hours ago, Westside said:

He seems to disappear in games. I would love to see more consistent next year.

A lot of factors can attribute to this beyond his control.  Defenses adjust, play calling, strength of opponent run etc…

 

Overall he was pretty productive.

[technobot]

33 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I hate to break this to fans but Cook's drop problems are NOT easily fixable. He drops easy passes because he doesn't focus. This isn't a technique or physicality issue.  Rolling in a jugs will not solve this.  Obviously we're all rooting for him to improve the fumbles (4) and dropped tds (4). But it's only happening with a sense of mental focus.

 

This worries me as well. From my unscientific perspective I'm guessing that he loses concentration, and perhaps this was one of the things McDermott was punishing him for earlier in the year. Also wondering if it's something that comes up in practice, which would feed McD's annoyance (intense dude, after all).

 

If he fixes that, loving most of what else was shown, he's got the burst, he can rack up big yards even after some contact, and he's certainly a threat in the passing game. But the inexplicable layup-type drops were "a thing" by season's end.

[HankBulloughMellencamp]

46 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I hate to break this to fans but Cook's drop problems are NOT easily fixable. He drops easy passes because he doesn't focus. This isn't a technique or physicality issue.  Rolling in a jugs will not solve this.  Obviously we're all rooting for him to improve the fumbles (4) and dropped tds (4). But it's only happening with a sense of mental focus.

 

We can agree to disagree on how easy it is to fix his 'wide open' pass drops. I'd rather have a guy who has soft hands and 'needs to focus' over a guy who isn't a good hand catcher of the ball to begin with.

 

I think his fumbles have mostly been from not protecting the ball well enough at the time of the tackle, and/or a second defender coming in with the punch-out while he gets wrapped up. That's as great a play by the well-coached defender as it is a bad play by the 'unfocused' ball carrier. I do think this can also be improved with coaching/experience over a length of time!

 

Players get better or worse, nothing is absolute!

[The Firebaugh Kid]

55 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

Before the season, I thought of Cook as a third-down back who would be a good safety valve out of the backfield.

 

He's a better runner than I thought.  Good vision and burst.  Effective up the middle which I doubted.

 

But he's a worse receiver than I thought.  The drops were killer.  

 

 

That's the reason I think he needs more targets, to help get him into a rhythm. Plus he's FANTASTIC after the catch. 

[TheBrownBear]

What about resigning Damien Harris on the cheap or was his injury potentially career ending?  I still think he'd provide a nice complement to Cook, assuming he's healthy.

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, phypon said:

I'd prefer a bruising back as the number 1 and a back like cook as the number 2.

 

The people who don't think Cook is a 1 pretty much all fall into this camp. When they say "Cook isn't a #1 back" they mean "Cook doesn't meet my stylistic preference."

[phypon]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The people who don't think Cook is a 1 pretty much all fall into this camp. When they say "Cook isn't a #1 back" they mean "Cook doesn't meet my stylistic preference."

No.  The "people" in this camp don't think he meets YOUR stylistic preferences.  I plainly said that I don't think Cook is anything special.  He's not a TT or a CMC type back.  To think otherwise is foolish.  I never said he is a bad back.  I like having him as our back right now.  He's doing pretty well.  I'm fine with exploring other options at the RB position and, at this point from what I've seen, I would not re-sign him to a big contract once he hits FA.

[Chaos]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The people who don't think Cook is a 1 pretty much all fall into this camp. When they say "Cook isn't a #1 back" they mean "Cook doesn't meet my stylistic preference."

It the Bills case, Josh Allen is RB 1 in the red zone.   The desire for a bruising style runner to compliment and take the burden off of Allen is more important to the Bills, than anything the RBs do between the 20's.  

The best stat in sports is baseball's WAR.  WAR does not work quite as easily in the NFL.  My personal OPINION is that there are at least 20 other backs in the NFL that would have allowed the Bills to finish 11-5, and lose in the divisional round of the playoffs.  And that there are less than five backs, who individually would have moved the dial forward in terms of wins or loses for the Bills.  As mentioned Cook is fine.  He is a solid RB on a rookie salary. Perfect for the Bills needs.  So was Singletary. And Cook will be likely be gone when he is no longer on a rookie contract, to be replaced by the next guy. 

[eball]

4 minutes ago, phypon said:

would not re-sign him to a big contract once he hits FA

 

There are extremely few RBs who should be signed to "big" contracts.  That's not particularly relevant to the question of whether Cook is an above-average RB1.  I think the statistics (and eye test) clearly show that he is.

 

[TheBrownBear]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I disagree. His yards after contact were the same as Derrick Henry's this year. He is absolutely fine between the tackles. 

You seem to be getting a lot of pushback on this, but I agree with you.  His tackle breaking and YAC in 2023 were probably his biggest areas of improvement over his rookie year.  I just watched all of his plays from three different games (yes, one was the fantastic Dallas game) and he broke plenty of tackles and racked up a bunch of yards after contact.  He's never going to be a battering ram given his slim build, but he did a much better job this season of going downhill and at least falling forward in piles which can often lead to extra 1.5 yards on those plays.  

[BaaadThingsMan]

I love Cook. The inconsistent hands need to get better. 

 

I'd sign Derrick Henry in a heartbeat (for 1 season) if given a chance though.