I contend that this team's problem isn't coaching, it's talent.

[Warriorspikes51]

We have the opportunity to add WR’s similar or better than Zay Flowers & Rashee Rice

[Not at the table Karlos]

19 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

With one of Bernard or Milano healthy we’re in the afc championship right now…kind of shocked K.C. just snuck by a team with aj klein getting victimized all game 

 

ed oliver was amazing this year lol  I legitimately think the vast majority of people that know football take him over metcalf 

It could have been Oliver and metcalf. Taking Cody Ford was the bigger problem than taking Oliver. 

[BillsFanForever19]

2 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

If you had to ask me to choose whether to fire beane or McDermott, I choose beane. Why? While he's overall built a competitive roster, he's utterly failed at drafting gane-changing players. 

 

You know my position on some of his picks, but ask yourself honestly: would you rather have a Metcalf or an Oliver? Basham or Humphrey? AJE or Uche? I could go on, but beane seems to prefer a whole roster of average over high ceiling guys (oddly, with the exception of the QB).

 

Also, this team lacks speed all over the field on both offense and defense, and I'd argue that the lack of speed on defense is the most notable reason why this team has failed in the postseason.

 

Lastly, beane's cap management and free agent acquisitions have been suboptimal, and the cap issues are going to do us in this coming season, I get the feeling. So, if you're asking me who's holding the bag of failure, it's Brandon Beane.

 

It's so easy to look at past Drafts and the success of players and say "you should have taken (so and so) instead". For most of those that you mentioned, we went with the higher rated prospect. They just didn't end up being the better player. 

 

The Oliver or Metcalf comparison makes no sense. Oliver was selected 9th overall and was universally a Top 5-10 talent in that Draft. DK Metcalf was the 9th WR to come off the board, selected 64th overall at the bottom of Round 2. 8 different teams, who were specifically picking WR, went with a different WR.

 

People would have thought we were on Crack to take Metcalf in the Top 10. Now if you say Cody Ford or DK Metcalf, that makes more sense. However, even then, Ford was considered the better prospect. He was considered a steal at the top of Round 2, a 1st Rounder who fell. Metcalf on Draft Day was considered a workout warrior who didn't show up on Game Day in College and was a major question mark who was as big a Boom or Bust prospect as they came. It just so happened, he was a Boom.

 

Epenesa over Uche, again, Epenesa was the higher rated prospect. Considered a 1st Round Pick who fell. Also a true Defensive End when we were in the market for one. Uche was considered more of a tweener. A LB who could pass rush situationally. 

 

Creed Humphrey was Drafted after Year 1 of handing Mitch Morse a massive contract to be our Center for years to come. So logically, why then would we Draft a Center that soon after having solidified the position with Morse?

 

Again, it's so easy to look back at the success of Drafted players by other teams in hindsight and build an all time team. Players like Metcalf, Uche, and Humphrey were passed by all other teams at least once, if not twice, or three times.

 

Beane has built a successful team. Consistently in the Top 2-4 teams in the AFC and 4-8 in the NFL. Many fanbases would kill to be in the situation we consider a failure. There's been a number of things that have kept us from getting over that hump.

 

To point at Beane and say his Drafting is the reason is silly in my opinion. The Draft is a crap shoot. You take the highest rated player at a position of need when you pick and hope for the best. Sometimes the higher rated prospect is a total bust. Sometimes you find a late Round Pick who was on no one's board and they turn into a Superstar. Beane has picked some real winners. No GM is 100% when it comes to hitting on picks and every GM has picks they'd second guess in hindsight.

 

If you think there isn't teams and fanbases pointing at some of the guys we got when we got them and wish they'd have picked them instead, you're wrong. And none of the miscues we had are at the level of "I wish we drafted Josh Allen instead".

Edited January 28 by BillsFanForever19

[Eastport bills]

6 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Ed Oliver was utterly invisible for the majority of his career and in this year's postseason.

 

He's like the football equivalent of Mr. September 

Tre white's career is probably over 

Why don’t you mention Oliver’s  season and by the way,the whole defense sucked against Mahomes with backups and bad coaching. Oliver  was arguably an all pro this season. Look at his #s.  With all your Beane criticism, Bass hits a chip shot , we’ re tied with a minute left against the champs.

[Tim Tindale]

4 minutes ago, Fetou said:

I have no confidence in the McDermott playoff defense against a good coach & QB even if everybody was healthy. I sympathize this year with the depletion and in isolation I think it would be perfectly acceptable to have a bad defensive performance, but they've been gutted with little resistance every time they've played Mahomes/Burrow in January for nearly half a decade now

The Chiefs have 17 at halftime against the best defense in the league.  This is starting to look like a beat down. Ravens should fire Harbaugh, I guess. He has thrown away two MVP Lamar seasons in the last five years. 

[Casey D]

Are you watching KC Ravens.  Bills are the best team outside KC.  And with KC it is whoever gets the bounce.

[NewEra]

We haven’t won a Super Bowl due to many things.  Partially talent.  Partially coaching.   Partially injuries. Partially not executing.  Situationally, all 4 have kept us from achieving our goal. There is no one reason. Period.

[Don Otreply]

What we have always needed is more talent at the #2 boundary WR position to complement Diggs, and our other receiving options.  On Defense we have always needed better and much faster implemented adjustments when the opponents offense is marching down the field with regularity especially in the fourth quarter, jmo. 

[Fetou]

Just now, Tim Tindale said:

The Chiefs have 17 at halftime against the best defense in the league.  This is starting to look like a beat down. Ravens should fire Harbaugh, I guess. He has thrown away two MVP Lamar seasons in the last five years. 

The Ravens can't possess the ball against a good defense like the Chiefs have. Lamar's track record is pretty much the QB edition of the McDermott show in the playoffs.

 

The Bills offense dominated time of possession and the defense couldn't even slow down the next Chiefs touchdown to the point where it would take more than 3 minutes. How many times did they even get to 3rd down? It's not comparable 

[NewEra]

4 minutes ago, Tim Tindale said:

The Chiefs have 17 at halftime against the best defense in the league.  This is starting to look like a beat down. Ravens should fire Harbaugh, I guess. He has thrown away two MVP Lamar seasons in the last five years. 

Seriously.  We might be the lakers of the 60’s

[dma0034]

It's a combo of both. Bills lack talent on Offense (especially WR) because the coach is Defensive and wants Defensive players drafted.

 

The problem I have with coaching is the postseason performance of the defense. There never seems to be adjustments just excuses that players were hurt. I also think McDermott coaches scared a lot. You have the only QB in the league that when you play against Mahomes there isn't a definite advantage for KC and you have blown it 3 times in the playoffs. First time I thought he played scared. Kicked FGs when he needed to go for it. Then your defense let Tyreek Hill score on a long TD, completely botched a 3 point lead with 13 seconds left and then couldn't stop the Chiefs in OT. Third game you stopped Mahomes from getting points once and got gifted a TO on a fumble at the 1 yard line. You go for a fake puke instead of allowing Allen to work magic and trust your shaky kicker to make a FG.... which, even if good, would have given the ball to Mahomes who would have torched your defense again. 

The reason I blame the coaching is simple: you have an elite QB and you don't use him as you should. 

[MrEpsYtown]

Part of that is the failures early in the draft and all the early picks used on running backs. You have to hit on those early round picks and not draft for need. The first time we actually seemed to ignore need and actually draft BPA is the Kincaid pick and that is looking like a home run. 

[Nuncha]

1 hour ago, TheWeatherMan said:

Nah, It’s coaching! 

Same was said about Andy Reid when he lost 4 straight NFC championships and then couldn't win a super bowl as coach of the Eagles. Hummmm

Edited January 28 by Nuncha

[finn]

I think it's both, although I don't think you're giving Beane quite enough credit. Look at the defensive roster he gave McDermott, if injuries hadn't happened: 

White, Bedford, Poyer, Hyde, Taron, Milano, Bernard, Floyd, Miller, Rousseau, Oliver, Jones. That would arguably have been the best defense in team history, and maybe the best in football.

 

On offense, he gave them what developed into an above-average line, a very good running back trio, two solid TEs, one elite WR, and of course a future HOF QB. I would say his only blunder--and it has turned out to be fatal--was assuming Gabe Davis could be a WR2. But without the injuries on defense, even this WR group might have been adequate. 

 

But McDermott.... Can we all agree he's not a great coach? Can we also agree that, with his W-L record, he's not awful? The bottom line is that he might be the Gabe Davis of coaches. Good enough to lose with. 

[Bermuda Triangle]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

Oliver. 

 

But otherwise I agree with your assessment of the major issue. Coaching isn't perfect. But we have lots of good players and not enough real top end talent. 

Oliver was once again invisible in a season-ending game.

[DBilz2500]

15 minutes ago, Tim Tindale said:

The Chiefs have 17 at halftime against the best defense in the league.  This is starting to look like a beat down. Ravens should fire Harbaugh, I guess. He has thrown away two MVP Lamar seasons in the last five years. 

Lamar’s season is really nowhere close to an MVP season. The media just wants to keep telling us that 

[Bermuda Triangle]

22 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

It could have been Oliver and metcalf. Taking Cody Ford was the bigger problem than taking Oliver. 

TRADING UP for Cody Ford, lol

[gonzo1105]

The Ravens will never win a SB with Lamar Jackson. He is not a high end enough passer to win a title 

[HOUSE]

Ok

[DallasBillsFan1]

Watching KC vs Balt right now ... it seems KC's offense is much faster.

[TheWeatherMan]

9 minutes ago, Nuncha said:

Same was said about Andy Reid when he lost 4 straight NFC championships and then couldn't win a super bowl as coach of the Eagles. Hummmm

Did you say Super Bowl?  

[scuba guy]

Did you watch last year when Metcalf was in the playoffs 😳 op.

 

Maybe not let me remind you he was crying on the bench yeah.  Cause he disappeared in that game.

 

So for the record put your 10 draft pics here in your post trade up or down if need be on draft day the player has to be there when we pick. So we can come back to this 2 years from know and see how you did.

 

 

Not wait 3 years later and say we should have picked him.

[Fetou]

7 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

The Ravens will never win a SB with Lamar Jackson. He is not a high end enough passer to win a title 

Would have been competitive a decade or so ago. I'm not sure it's possible to just ride a defense to a Superbowl any more unless there is a large regression in the passing game. Even undead 70 year old Tom Brady offered more than Lamar is here

Edited January 28 by Fetou

[Eastport bills]

17 minutes ago, balln said:

Ed

oliver is still an average rotational player to me. Wow he showed up vs the chargers!

 

color me impressed !

 

he didn’t make any play vs kc. He’s weak

agaisnt the run. His short arms / can’t get off blocks. And his rush is undisciplined more often than not and our d gets burned by the qb bc of it 

You have minimal credibility after the average rotational comment. You know average doesn’t get 10 sacks as a tackle and top 10 in QB pressures. 35 individual tackles. Our defense was clueless as a unit giving up 27 points on 47 total offensive snaps. You want to blame Oliver for KC having receivers wide open all night or runs that looked like no one wanted to tackle anybody. There was AJ Klein at MLB and and the rookie Willams also defending the run. The Defensive coach also made no adjustments. “ His short arms / can’t get off blocks “ and his rushes are undisciplined “. These are the comments of someone who knows short arms when he sees them on TV and is an acknowledged authority on disciplined rushing. Forgetting about the other tackles and edge rushers getting stoned by O-lines, in your expert judgment it’s because of Oliver. Red hots like you shouldn’t be allowed to post.

[GunnerBill]

14 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

Oliver was once again invisible in a season-ending game.

 

Sunday was not his best game. Granted. Joe Thuney is absolutely elite, but Oliver was not at his best. 

 

I think he played well in the other two KC playoff defeats although if all you do is box score scout you won't have seen it. He was bad in last year's Cincy game but he was hurt in that game. 

[The Red King]

When is the last time you said "Wow, that was brilliant coaching?", "He had that team ready.", "Yeah, he was ready for..." in regards to McD?  He can keep a locker room together, he can squeeze a lot out of his players, but when it comes to gameday coaching, he's just...meh.  McD is the Tyrod Taylor of coaching.  Good enough to elevate bad teams, but bad enough to limit good ones.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

[SoCal Deek]

It’s coaching. 
 

 

 

 

End Thread

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

3 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

If you had to ask me to choose whether to fire beane or McDermott, I choose beane. Why? While he's overall built a competitive roster, he's utterly failed at drafting gane-changing players. 

 

You know my position on some of his picks, but ask yourself honestly: would you rather have a Metcalf or an Oliver? Basham or Humphrey? AJE or Uche? I could go on, but beane seems to prefer a whole roster of average over high ceiling guys (oddly, with the exception of the QB).

 

Also, this team lacks speed all over the field on both offense and defense, and I'd argue that the lack of speed on defense is the most notable reason why this team has failed in the postseason.

 

Lastly, beane's cap management and free agent acquisitions have been suboptimal, and the cap issues are going to do us in this coming season, I get the feeling. So, if you're asking me who's holding the bag of failure, it's Brandon Beane.

Without a doubt

[Warriorspikes51]

We need SPEED

[Bill Grundy]

This year our team's problem was ultimately injuries. 

 

[SinceThe70s]

3 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

Did coaching drop a deep shot that hit a receiver in the hands? Did coaching get manhandled back into the QB in the clutch? Did coaching get scorched by a 34 yo tight end in single coverage? Was coaching incapable of winning a pass rush battle all game?

 

 

 

I'm late to the party but did you really try to diminish Kelce as just a 34 yo tight end? And while I get this hindsight, who do you put the geriatric's performance on today - the coach or the GM?

[LABILLBACKER]

Gee I thought they're a package deal?  Don't they have to be fired together?

[SoCal Deek]

Excuses, excuses and more excuses. 

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

This. I’d go so far as to say we could draft WR’s in Round 1, 2 & 3.
 

This class is so good we need to take advantage.  If at least 2 hit, your offense is reborn as a much more terrifying group. Especially if those players are a dynamic speed threat 

 

imagine adding Jaylen Waddle & Zay Flowers

Hey I'm all for this or at the very least 2 wrs and a safety in the first 3 rounds. No way clap signs off on this.

[Toyo321]

Beane has not brought in a infusion of young talent, we are arguably one of the oldest teams in the league "26th or 27th" going into training camp 2024.  Our Safeties are as slow as hell, our corners are middle of the road at best.  Our entire wide receivers corps going into next year needs a complete overhaul. We lack any speed everywhere on special teams on a consistent basis, and our special teams have been torched the last couple of years giving up big plays at the worst time possible because we lack speed there too.  

 

Our D-Line is good but it is not elite. It fails over and over to dictate the game when needed the most.  McD and Beane's fault there.  Then there is the playoffs, in the playoffs the Offense and Defense always disappears and when it matters the most they can't make the elite game winning plays to win in the playoffs.  It happened again at home this year against KC.  Zero explosive plays on O and no Game changing plays by the D.

 

Beane has put us in CAP purgatory for 2024 and the cuts and player turnover is coming, you can bet on it.

 

 

[jethro_tull]

how many effin threads are we going to have about this?  winning in the NFL takes both talent and coaching into account.  the combined output of each side has to be excellent and one needs to make up for the other if there is imbalance.  

fortunately the bills have both and will be excellent for years to follow...

Edited January 29 by jethro_tull

[Johnnycage46]

It CAN be both

[Big Turk]

Well...the problem with this argument is the Bills have led the NFL in point differential by an absurd margin since the beginning of 2020. Like so far ahead it's not even close.

 

If teams with all this "top end talent" are getting steamrolled so often by the Bills then what is that saying?

 

[CaptnCoke11]

We definitely need another difference making WR.  Diggs is on the wrong side of 30 and he’s not that guy anymore.