Divisional Playoffs - Chiefs at Bills - Post game thread

[GaryPinC]

1 minute ago, Bruffalo said:

The only positive takeaway from the season is that our draft was very good and we got some really important contributors out of it.  If Shorter can have a Shakir like rise, watch out. Beane is still a top tier GM and it shows. 

 

I do feel like this is the ceiling for McDermott. Nothing's going to happen because of the run the Bills went on to win the AFC East. So I've just got to make peace with the fact that our HC is holding the team back. 

 

Eric Washington is somebody who should be on a hot seat but can't seem to do anything but fail up.  The D-Line was healthy and disappears again, despite an insane level of investment. 

Part of the whole rotation philosophy is I wonder if it disempowers our playmakers to some extent, psychologically.  And the D-line looked tired the last half of the fourth quarter anyways.

[newcam2012]

5 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

Next year is a rebuild year. The only way we get the #1 seed is if McDermott can get decent defensive results with less talent, and we hit on a rookie WR.

 

The goal should be making the playoffs, possibly winning the division and see what happens after that.

There should be no talk of winning a SB. 

 

Yes the goal of this team should be try to make the playoffs. It's a reasonable goal. Anything after that would be gravy. The expectations are too high for this team. 

[Bruffalo]

4 minutes ago, GaryPinC said:

D-line looked tired the last half of the fourth quarter anyway

They had no reason to be.  The Bills offense was doing exactly what McDermott has been preaching all season, long sustained drives that mostly ended in points. 

 

The defense was letting Mahomes score in 6 plays with an absurd 10-plus yard per play. 

 

McDermott's philosophy is ancient and part of the problem. 

[Seventeen]

3 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

There should be no talk of winning a SB. 

 

Yes the goal of this team should be try to make the playoffs. It's a reasonable goal. Anything after that would be gravy. The expectations are too high for this team. 

 

Sure thing ... I'll bet that's what Reid says to his team every year in training camp. 

[UKBillFan]

13 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

Next year is a rebuild year. The only way we get the #1 seed is if McDermott can get decent defensive results with less talent, and we hit on a rookie WR.

 

The goal should be making the playoffs, possibly winning the division and see what happens after that.

No different from every other year under McDermott with an, on paper, stronger roster.

[ngbills]

KC adjusted on D in the second half enough to stop two Bills drives. That was the difference. 

Bills D never adjusted to KC O. We were lucky the Bills O was able to sustain long drives or KC puts up like 50. 

That was the ballgame. 

[sonyab1974]

10 hours ago, Artful Dodger said:

 

I almost won the SB as the Bills on Madden but as it was getting near the end of the 4th quarter, my computer inexplicably caught on fire.  

 

Thank you! I needed that.

[finn]

The skewed narratives have already begun. NFL.com says Allen was "far from perfect" in the game and "misfired several times downfield" when the game was on the line. The writer emphasizes his longest completion was 15 yards and implies it was his fault. No mention of the receiver drops, the choke play of Diggs, the fact that he played his heart out, leading the team in rushing, patiently taking what the defense gave him, hitting clutch pass after clutch pass, and driving the Bills into field goal range to tie the game.

 

All we're going to hear this offseason is how Allen can't win the big one, that he's a turnover machine, and the Chiefs own him. Going to be a long time until September. 

[Wayne Arnold]

27 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

Next year is a rebuild year. The only way we get the #1 seed is if McDermott can get decent defensive results with less talent, and we hit on a rookie WR.

 

The goal should be making the playoffs, possibly winning the division and see what happens after that.

 

You just described 2023.

[78thealltimegreat]

4 minutes ago, finn said:

The skewed narratives have already begun. NFL.com says Allen was "far from perfect" in the game and "misfired several times downfield" when the game was on the line. The writer emphasizes his longest completion was 15 yards and implies it was his fault. No mention of the receiver drops, the choke play of Diggs, the fact that he played his heart out, leading the team in rushing, patiently taking what the defense gave him, hitting clutch pass after clutch pass, and driving the Bills into field goal range to tie the game.

 

All we're going to hear this offseason is how Allen can't win the big one, that he's a turnover machine, and the Chiefs own him. Going to be a long time until September. 

The guy who wrote that article is a former patriots beat writer draw your own conclusions 

[BuffaloBillyG]

What a difference a year makes.

[UKBillFan]

1 minute ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

What a difference a year makes.

Wonder if Josh will be low key bad mouthing him throughout the off season?
 

Think we all know the answer.

[DapperCam]

2 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

You just described 2023.

I disagree, we rebuilt the o-line, added a bunch of role players on offense, people were optimistic about Diggs and Davis. There was optimism Tre White and Von Miller would return to form. A lot of people felt we were improved “on paper” before this season.

 

The reality we are now facing is Diggs is possibly washed, Davis is gone, I don’t think anybody is confident White or Miller will ever return to form (or even will be on the roster next season). We don’t have the cap to pick up the same kinds of role players on offense. Our safeties were already old and are now a year older (they might not be on the roster next year, Hyde is a FA and Poyer is a liability).

 

 

Next year the marketing will be “youth movement”, but we definitely won’t be considered better on paper.

[Shortchaz]

Imagine if 6 years from now the Texans still haven’t won a divisional round playoff game 

[UKBillFan]

10 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

I disagree, we rebuilt the o-line, added a bunch of role players on offense, people were optimistic about Diggs and Davis. There was optimism Tre White and Von Miller would return to form. A lot of people felt we were improved “on paper” before this season.

 

The reality we are now facing is Diggs is possibly washed, Davis is gone, I don’t think anybody is confident White or Miller will ever return to form (or even will be on the roster next season). We don’t have the cap to pick up the same kinds of role players on offense. Our safeties were already old and are now a year older (they might not be on the roster next year, Hyde is a FA and Poyer is a liability).

 

 

Next year the marketing will be “youth movement”, but we definitely won’t be considered better on paper.

One thing different is an optimistic way is, despite the 2&9 question mark, I think most of us will be going into the off season feeling more confident in Josh. It’s never nice to end the season on a bad performance and, other than the arguable final two throws, he certainly didn’t do that, which is different from 2023 (albeit the whole team stunk the place out against the Bengals).

[SaulGoodman]

29 minutes ago, finn said:

The skewed narratives have already begun. NFL.com says Allen was "far from perfect" in the game and "misfired several times downfield" when the game was on the line. The writer emphasizes his longest completion was 15 yards and implies it was his fault. No mention of the receiver drops, the choke play of Diggs, the fact that he played his heart out, leading the team in rushing, patiently taking what the defense gave him, hitting clutch pass after clutch pass, and driving the Bills into field goal range to tie the game.

 

All we're going to hear this offseason is how Allen can't win the big one, that he's a turnover machine, and the Chiefs own him. Going to be a long time until September. 

Outside of last year’s Bengals game (weather played a part), and McD’s coaching decisions at the end of the 13 seconds game, the Bills have nothing to be ashamed of. They’re right there every year. Might have a SB appearance or win already if they were in the NFC. 

[PromoTheRobot]

10 hours ago, Warcodered said:

Yeah I get it, but I don't know why you'd bother saying that right now, it's like hey at least we lose well.

 

I mean you know what happens next right, the Chiefs return to normal next week dropping passes playing like ***** and get the doors blown off them by the Ravens, just like with the Bengals after 13 seconds, just so we can think why'd they even bother winning.

 

 Nobody wants to acknowledge the shape the Bills were in. Oh sure, people go "yeah I know but..." But they don't care. They expect this team to roll everyone because we have Josh Allen. But it's a team game and sadly the rest of the team couldn't step up, due to injury, the yips, whatever. 

[boyst]

talking to eball maybe i can put my words a little more and be just another screaming at the wind here. but we have lost many games this year for the following reasons:

bad coaching

defense can't hold

offense can't finish

special teams let down

 

last night all 4 happened and if just one of them were to have been different we could/should have won.

 

to me it goes back to coaching.

 

[Success]

Allen's detractors (the people who thought he'd be a bust when he was drafted) are really seizing on his decision to go to Shakir at the end as more proof that he blows it & can't win big games.

 

This, to me, is insane.  First, it wasn't a bad decision at all. Shakir was wide open.  It wasn't "hero ball."  Beyond that, he carried the team the whole game.

 

Who else made a big play in that game?  Shakir & Kincaid had nice plays & catches - but no one on D really made a play, outside of the goal-line fumble.  No sacks, no INT's, blown coverages.  That was Allen's game from start to finish.  To point out one decision he made as some sort of "proof" of anything is holding him to a ridiculous standard.

 

[Heels20X6]

43 minutes ago, finn said:

The skewed narratives have already begun. NFL.com says Allen was "far from perfect" in the game and "misfired several times downfield" when the game was on the line. The writer emphasizes his longest completion was 15 yards and implies it was his fault. No mention of the receiver drops, the choke play of Diggs, the fact that he played his heart out, leading the team in rushing, patiently taking what the defense gave him, hitting clutch pass after clutch pass, and driving the Bills into field goal range to tie the game.

 

All we're going to hear this offseason is how Allen can't win the big one, that he's a turnover machine, and the Chiefs own him. Going to be a long time until September. 

 

It's borderline pathetic at this point how many people in the media have it out for him.  His biggest crime being that he wasn't the bust they declared he would be when he was selected.   It would be one thing if Josh was spouting QANON theories on a buddy's podcast, acting like a diva, etc.  but he's genuinely a decent human being.  And they HATE him for that.

 

He played his heart out.  Could things have gone better at the very end?  Sure.  But he put the team in a position for a VERY makeable field goal to tie things up and once again, the team let him down.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

4 minutes ago, Success said:

Allen's detractors (the people who thought he'd be a bust when he was drafted) are really seizing on his decision to go to Shakir at the end as more proof that he blows it & can't win big games.

 

This, to me, is insane.  First, it wasn't a bad decision at all. Shakir was wide open.  It wasn't "hero ball."  Beyond that, he carried the team the whole game.

 

Who else made a big play in that game?  Shakir & Kincaid had nice plays & catches - but no one on D really made a play, outside of the goal-line fumble.  No sacks, no INT's, blown coverages.  That was Allen's game from start to finish.  To point out one decision he made as some sort of "proof" of anything is holding him to a ridiculous standard.

 

No. 

 

Just no. 

 

First off, Shakir was NFL open. He was not wide open. Wide open was Kelce's first TD. it was a tight window that likely works if Allen isn't hit as he's thrown. 

 

But it's the wrong decision for a few reasons. One, he has close to an instant 1st down if he tosses it to Diggs on the crosser. Diggs goes down in bounds it forces KC to use a timeout or the clock winds down to ~1:20. We get 4 more chances at a play like the Shakir throw or Bass gets a little more space to work. 

 

Two, even if the pass works exactly as intended...KC has the ball back with 1:55 and two timeouts. They need a TD, but with our defense giving up at least eight 20+ yard plays? It's a risk I would never take. 

 

[Heels20X6]

2 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

No. 

 

Just no. 

 

First off, Shakir was NFL open. He was not wide open. Wide open was Kelce's first TD. it was a tight window that likely works if Allen isn't hit as he's thrown. 

 

But it's the wrong decision for a few reasons. One, he has close to an instant 1st down if he tosses it to Diggs on the crosser. Diggs goes down in bounds it forces KC to use a timeout or the clock winds down to ~1:20. We get 4 more chances at a play like the Shakir throw or Bass gets a little more space to work. 

 

Two, even if the pass works exactly as intended...KC has the ball back with 1:55 and two timeouts. They need a TD, but with our defense giving up at least eight 20+ yard plays? It's a risk I would never take. 

 

 

You're banking on the fact that Diggs catches that ball and makes the right play.  Maybe Josh lost a little faith in him at that point after he dropped a SURE thing in that 65 yard ball of beauty he threw earlier in the drive.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

1 minute ago, Heels20X6 said:

 

You're banking on the fact that Diggs catches that ball and makes the right play.  Maybe Josh lost a little faith in him at that point after he dropped a SURE thing in that 65 yard ball of beauty he threw earlier in the drive.

Coverage was not bad on the play you are talking about. This coverage was blown.

Edited January 22 by WhitewalkerInPhilly

[Success]

6 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

No. 

 

Just no. 

 

First off, Shakir was NFL open. He was not wide open. Wide open was Kelce's first TD. it was a tight window that likely works if Allen isn't hit as he's thrown. 

 

But it's the wrong decision for a few reasons. One, he has close to an instant 1st down if he tosses it to Diggs on the crosser. Diggs goes down in bounds it forces KC to use a timeout or the clock winds down to ~1:20. We get 4 more chances at a play like the Shakir throw or Bass gets a little more space to work. 

 

Two, even if the pass works exactly as intended...KC has the ball back with 1:55 and two timeouts. They need a TD, but with our defense giving up at least eight 20+ yard plays? It's a risk I would never take. 

 

 

We get to see all of that in slo-mo replay.

 

Allen had about 2 seconds, and saw Shakir open.

 

[Mango]

As a very slowly decompress from last night I find myself remembering how frustrated I was in the second half. 

Cook was getting stuffed often. KC had adjusted to the run. 

The situation was prime for play action, bootlegs, and screens. Allen picked up some tough yards as the game went on. 

[Coach Tuesday]

1 minute ago, Mango said:

As a very slowly decompress from last night I find myself remembering how frustrated I was in the second half. 

Cook was getting stuffed often. KC had adjusted to the run. 

The situation was prime for play action, bootlegs, and screens. Allen picked up some tough yards as the game went on. 

 

Brady never adjusted to the run blitzes in the second half.  They kept running Cook into the teeth of the blitz.

Edited January 22 by Coach Tuesday

[Warcodered]

15 minutes ago, Success said:

Allen's detractors (the people who thought he'd be a bust when he was drafted) are really seizing on his decision to go to Shakir at the end as more proof that he blows it & can't win big games.

 

This, to me, is insane.  First, it wasn't a bad decision at all. Shakir was wide open.  It wasn't "hero ball."  Beyond that, he carried the team the whole game.

 

Who else made a big play in that game?  Shakir & Kincaid had nice plays & catches - but no one on D really made a play, outside of the goal-line fumble.  No sacks, no INT's, blown coverages.  That was Allen's game from start to finish.  To point out one decision he made as some sort of "proof" of anything is holding him to a ridiculous standard.

 

That's just ***** mindboggling to me, the decision to throw the pass to the open WR in the endzone to take the lead past the 2 minute warning in the game is bad. Like the ***** are they talking about, one it's obviously the play call, two what does Josh have to ***** levitate the whole game and shoot lasers from his eyes or some *****, what kind of impossible standard is he being held to.

5 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

No. 

 

Just no. 

 

First off, Shakir was NFL open. He was not wide open. Wide open was Kelce's first TD. it was a tight window that likely works if Allen isn't hit as he's thrown. 

 

But it's the wrong decision for a few reasons. One, he has close to an instant 1st down if he tosses it to Diggs on the crosser. Diggs goes down in bounds it forces KC to use a timeout or the clock winds down to ~1:20. We get 4 more chances at a play like the Shakir throw or Bass gets a little more space to work. 

 

Two, even if the pass works exactly as intended...KC has the ball back with 1:55 and two timeouts. They need a TD, but with our defense giving up at least eight 20+ yard plays? It's a risk I would never take. 

 

It's not the wrong decision the entire premise of it being wrong is ridiculous and only exists because they're going eh it's Josh Allen he'll still get it in anyway he should just take a specific amount of clock off and do it at a prescribed time, and that's ***** ridiculous.

5 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Brady never adjusted to the run blitzes in the second half.  They kept running Cook into the teeth of the blitz.

Are we sure those weren't the dropped deep balls.

[KOKBILLS]

8 hours ago, par73 said:

Short passes and the run game drove the offense--- especially in the first half. With the Bills driving, and the chance to bleed the clock, this is exactly what was called for at the end of the game. If Allen had hit Shakir, does anyone think the defense would have stopped Mahomes with 2 minutes left? LOL

 

Exactly...

[cgg716]

29 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

 Nobody wants to acknowledge the shape the Bills were in. Oh sure, people go "yeah I know but..." But they don't care. They expect this team to roll everyone because we have Josh Allen. But it's a team game and sadly the rest of the team couldn't step up, due to injury, the yips, whatever. 

Defense even when it's healthy doesn't come through in big games. Were they injured? Sure... is their any reason to believe we don't see a rerun? Absolutely not. Mcd put Klein out there and left him for dead. A true defensive specialist wouldn't do that. As always good coaching can overcome a lot, and the bills don't have a good coach 

Edited January 22 by cgg716

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

Just now, Warcodered said:

That's just ***** mindboggling to me, the decision to throw the pass to the open WR in the endzone to take the lead past the 2 minute warning in the game is bad. Like the ***** are they talking about, one it's obviously the play call, two what does Josh have to ***** levitate the whole game and shoot lasers from his eyes or some *****, what kind of impossible standard is he being held to.

It's not the wrong decision the entire premise of it being wrong is ridiculous and only exists because they're going eh it's Josh Allen he'll still get it in anyway he should just take a specific amount of clock off and do it at a prescribed time, and that's ***** ridiculous.

I am sorry that your mind is boggled.

 

Tight window on long developing play for a TD: high risk high reward

Simple pass to your #1 receiver that reaps multiple benefits in the game spot: Low Risk high reward.

 

what part about this are you not getting? I am not saying that Josh played terrible. He had a good game. But that was a bad decision.

[mannc]

To me, the most discouraging part of the game is that the Bills had everything go their way in this game.  The game was in Orchard Park, the Bills recovered three of their own fumbles, the Chiefs fumbled the ball through the end zone on a play that should have put them up two scores, and we literally got every possible call from the refs, including a few that could have been overturned but stayed in the Bills favor.  And of course, this was the most vulnerable  Chiefs team we’re ever likely to see.  I guarantee they won’t go into another season with a receiving corps like this one.

 And yet with all these things going our way, we still lose to the Chiefs.  If we bring back this staff, what is going to change to turn this in the Bills’ favor? Hell, how are we even going to beat the Bengals?  I just don’t see it.  Gotta move on from this coaching staff.

Edited January 22 by mannc

[Warcodered]

6 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

I am sorry that your mind is boggled.

 

Tight window on long developing play for a TD: high risk high reward

Simple pass to your #1 receiver that reaps multiple benefits in the game spot: Low Risk high reward.

 

what part about this are you not getting? I am not saying that Josh played terrible. He had a good game. But that was a bad decision.

I like how the narrative has suddenly changed from not wide open, he was, NFL open to tight window, soon it's going to be dangerous throw, and eventually can't believe it wasn't a pick.

Edited January 22 by Warcodered

[ColoradoBills]

[Aimee75]

22 minutes ago, Heels20X6 said:

 

It's borderline pathetic at this point how many people in the media have it out for him.  His biggest crime being that he wasn't the bust they declared he would be when he was selected.   It would be one thing if Josh was spouting QANON theories on a buddy's podcast, acting like a diva, etc.  but he's genuinely a decent human being.  And they HATE him for that.

 

He played his heart out.  Could things have gone better at the very end?  Sure.  But he put the team in a position for a VERY makeable field goal to tie things up and once again, the team let him down.

Josh needs playmakers to step up for him. The problem is, they don't when he needs them the most. A perfect example of this is Chris Jones making a play that forced Dawkins to stumble into Josh, which caused his throw to Shakir to be off. That was huge for The Chiefs. Someone, somewhere needs to step up for him, and it rarely happens(Miller pressuring Mahomes into an INT last season is as close as it gets). It should not have to be on Josh, all the time, to have to be the difference maker. It's exhausting. Players need to catch balls, defenders need to do something(kudos to Poyer for his big play in the end zone last night). I mean, for whatever reason, it seems to be solely on Josh all the time and there is never any context into the matter, it just turns into "he didn't make the play when the team needed him to". Nevermind that he did all that two years ago in KC, with 13 seconds on the clock left, and it still wasn't enough. I am not saying his decision making doesn't need to be better at times or that he is always perfect, but I can't think of a player constantly more let down by the players beside him than Josh.

[Nihilarian]

If you think about it the Buffalo Bills had a rookie OC calling plays and the Chiefs had Matt Nagy, and Andy Reid on the other side. 

 

The only real beef I have with this coaching staff is with the special teams coach. 12 players on the field cost a game and this miss by Scott Norwood. 

 

 

 

 

[Aimee75]

52 minutes ago, Shortchaz said:

Imagine if 6 years from now the Texans still haven’t won a divisional round playoff game 

What is this supposed to mean? This is how it becomes easy to spot trolls. The Bills could not have gone to the AFCCG 3 years ago if they did not win a divisional game 🙄

[Logic]

I feel...mostly exhausted and sad today. Not devastated/heartbroken like in the past, just....ugh. Resigned. Disappointed.

I think the reason is that there wasn't any blown call, fluke play, or baffling coaching decision to point to for the loss (yes, the fake punt was dumb, but it's not what cost the Bills the game. It led to no KC points and Bills got the ball back). Instead, the loss happened due to failures in all three phases -- offense, defense, and special teams.

-- The offense was mostly great, but it didn't hit a single explosive (20+ yard) play, while KC had 8. At the end, when it mattered most, they couldn't seal the deal.

-- The defense was carved up. Mahomes was the hot knife, and our defense was the butter. Yes, it was ridiculously injury depleted. Yes, the specific injuries -- Bernard and Rapp, out middle of the field defenders -- were particularly devastating against an offense like KC that eats up the middle of the field. Whatever reason you want to give, our defense offered basically no resistance all game.

-- The special teams was bad the whole way through, culminating in a missed field goal.

As for coaching, my only nits to pick would be that the defense was slow to adjust (I'm not sure how much they could've done anyway, when your defensive signal caller is out and you're starting a guy off the couch, it really limits how complex you can make your defense), and the fake punt was dumb. For once, I DON'T think coaching was the primary reason for the loss. 

Failures in execution are what doomed us. Not many, but enough of them in key moments -- Diggs' dropped pass, Sherfield's dropped pass, Dawkins getting walked into Allen, Bass's miss -- to spell defeat for the Bills.

I think I'm just exhausted because I don't have an easy fix or an easy recipe to overcome this hurdle we can't seem to overcome. Mid-season I said that I wanted McDermott gone. Then he got considerably better at coaching. Started being more aggressive on 4th downs (to the point that he routinely goes for it on 4th on his own side of the field, even early in games), started coaching more aggressive and disguised defense, started being a bit looser on the sideline and in the locker room...in short, he seemed to make a concerted effort to improve on a lot of the gripes everyone had about him. He then coached six straight wins to get to the divisional round. 

While we can argue until we're blue in the face over whether McDermott should be replaced or not, the fact is that it's NOT happening this offseason. So what do the Bills do? Where do we go from here? They'll no doubt draft some exciting young players, sign a guy or two, lose a guy or two. They'll line up again next season top 10 or top 5 in Super Bowl odds. They'll probably win the AFC East again. But then what? 

I'm back to feeling like I felt last offesason: Nothing really matters until January. It's all just noise until the divisional round comes. And what should make me feel this morning like the Bills will have a better chance of clearing that hurdle next season? 

I'm just...exhausted. Sad, disappointed, dejected. Exhausted. 

[Shortchaz]

3 minutes ago, Aimee75 said:

What is this supposed to mean? This is how it becomes easy to spot trolls. The Bills could not have gone to the AFCCG 3 years ago if they did not win a divisional game 🙄

How’d that go? 
 

I guess I should’ve said, imagine if they’ve only won ONE divisional round game. Better? 

Edited January 22 by Shortchaz

[90sBills]

9 hours ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

Mcd is the common denominater in all 3 of those playoff losses.

So are a lot of others. 

[Sestak4ever]

Our blitzes were brutal. Saw some linebacker blitzes where both linebackers were on the same side of the field and Mahomes just had to step to one side or step up to avoid the blitz. When you take those chances you have to, at the very least, make the qb hurry his throws. We couldn’t even do that. I also wonder how much longer Josh can drive himself the way he does, and find the internal motivation. I marvel that he still does it now. Go Bills!