HappyDays Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 I'm not trying to be inflammatory here. This is a genuine question. Torrence has been the clear weak link on the Bills offense in recent weeks. He's getting beat inside off the snap at a frighteningly high rate. He's making mental mistakes that allow free rushers up the middle. It's no blight on him as a draft pick if we bench him. It's known that OL players in particular take time to develop, and with his body type it would not be a surprise at all if he's hit the rookie wall playing 100% of the snaps this season. And there's still 4 (hopefully) games to go... I just don't know if we can live with Torrence's mistakes in a playoff run that looks like it will be a true gauntlet. We have steady vets in David Edwards and Ryan Bates waiting in the wings. I think the coaching staff should seriously consider making a change now before it's too late. 5 5 1 6 1 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 No. 2 4 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 It's a fair question, but no I don't think you take a link out of a unit that's gelled for an entire season and put someone in cold off the bench. 10 10 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Interesting take Chubbs. I think if Torrence is healthy, he plays. If not,don't know if Rick Bates or Edwards would get the start in his place. If they want to save Bates to back up Morse, it could be Edwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 4 minutes ago, HappyDays said: I'm not trying to be inflammatory here. This is a genuine question. Torrence has been the clear weak link on the Bills offense in recent weeks. He's getting beat inside off the snap at a frighteningly high rate. He's making mental mistakes that allow free rushers up the middle. It's no blight on him as a draft pick if we bench him. It's known that OL players in particular take time to develop, and with his body type it would not be a surprise at all if he's hit the rookie wall playing 100% of the snaps this season. And there's still 4 (hopefully) games to go... I just don't know if we can live with Torrence's mistakes in a playoff run that looks like it will be a true gauntlet. We have steady vets in David Edwards and Ryan Bates waiting in the wings. I think the coaching staff should seriously consider making a change now before it's too late. I think he has been not so good, including tonight, but the way the unit has been all season, you can’t bench him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 It can be due to a long season he is not used to. I think he should be active but backup. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 5 minutes ago, HappyDays said: I'm not trying to be inflammatory here. This is a genuine question. Torrence has been the clear weak link on the Bills offense in recent weeks. He's getting beat inside off the snap at a frighteningly high rate. He's making mental mistakes that allow free rushers up the middle. It's no blight on him as a draft pick if we bench him. It's known that OL players in particular take time to develop, and with his body type it would not be a surprise at all if he's hit the rookie wall playing 100% of the snaps this season. And there's still 4 (hopefully) games to go... I just don't know if we can live with Torrence's mistakes in a playoff run that looks like it will be a true gauntlet. We have steady vets in David Edwards and Ryan Bates waiting in the wings. I think the coaching staff should seriously consider making a change now before it's too late. No way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaenon Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Wilkins is very good 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted January 8 Author Share Posted January 8 2 minutes ago, SageAgainstTheMachine said: It's a fair question, but no I don't think you take a link out of a unit that's gelled for an entire season and put someone in cold off the bench. I don't expect it to be a popular suggestion. Personally I think Torrence's reputation on here exceeds his play. I think early season returns gave everyone a lot of optimism that has not been borne out over the back half of the season. He has a long way to go to cement his spot as a long term starter. That being said the one argument against it that makes sense to me is what you said - do you risk tearing apart the cohesion that's been built over several months of all 5 starters being the same? That is a legitimate concern. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 I honestly give all rookies a bit of a pass at this point in the NFL season. The professional year has to be utterly exhausting for them. They’re not used to playing anywhere near this number of games. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 No, he's a stud who's made some rookie mistakes. He'll be fine. 2 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maine-iac Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 6 minutes ago, HappyDays said: I'm not trying to be inflammatory here. This is a genuine question. Torrence has been the clear weak link on the Bills offense in recent weeks. He's getting beat inside off the snap at a frighteningly high rate. He's making mental mistakes that allow free rushers up the middle. It's no blight on him as a draft pick if we bench him. It's known that OL players in particular take time to develop, and with his body type it would not be a surprise at all if he's hit the rookie wall playing 100% of the snaps this season. And there's still 4 (hopefully) games to go... I just don't know if we can live with Torrence's mistakes in a playoff run that looks like it will be a true gauntlet. We have steady vets in David Edwards and Ryan Bates waiting in the wings. I think the coaching staff should seriously consider making a change now before it's too late. Who are you subbing in for him against Wilkins with A gap blitzes who will do better? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiracleAtRich1393 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 It's not a*terrible* idea. Bates is a quality player that knows the system well and would be a fresh body after a grueling season. Edwards too 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 At this point you dance with the girl you brought to the dance However I would have a quick trigger to letting Edwards or Bates take over 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo44 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 nope but you can give him help via Morse or a RB at times, whih they didn't 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 9 minutes ago, HappyDays said: I'm not trying to be inflammatory here. This is a genuine question. Torrence has been the clear weak link on the Bills offense in recent weeks. He's getting beat inside off the snap at a frighteningly high rate. He's making mental mistakes that allow free rushers up the middle. It's no blight on him as a draft pick if we bench him. It's known that OL players in particular take time to develop, and with his body type it would not be a surprise at all if he's hit the rookie wall playing 100% of the snaps this season. And there's still 4 (hopefully) games to go... I just don't know if we can live with Torrence's mistakes in a playoff run that looks like it will be a true gauntlet. We have steady vets in David Edwards and Ryan Bates waiting in the wings. I think the coaching staff should seriously consider making a change now before it's too late. Tonight he cost the Bills a red zone turnover by getting beat trying to overprotect that vulnerable inside. I don't think we've seen anywhere enough of anybody else to judge whether there is an upgrade available, though. Also consider the 3-4 front we'll be facing next week. Nobody he's facing is going to beat him with speed so it may match up very well for his power game. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelius Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 1 minute ago, Wayne Arnold said: No, he's a stud who's made some rookie mistakes. He'll be fine. Agreed, let him grow. It’s also almost more about the cohesive unit at this point than an individual, don’t mess with the consistency if there’s no injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted January 8 Author Share Posted January 8 1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said: I honestly give all rookies a bit of a pass at this point in the NFL season. The professional year has to be utterly exhausting for them. They’re not used to playing anywhere near this number of games. 100% agreed. I think on the whole Torrence has shown great promise, and that's all you can ask from a late 2nd round rookie offensive lineman. Still I question if repeatedly ramming him into that rookie wall over a playoff run is the right choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 No. He's made mistakes but you dont mess with oline chemistry 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 He was bad bad today. Do we have someone better though? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generic_Bills_Fan Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Despite Miami blitzing early and pretty often I think the oline did a pretty good job tonight…didn’t feel like the constant pressure up the middle we saw against the chargers and pats to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 I say let him continue to grow Every OL gets beat here and there and I think overall he's been pretty good. We need him to develop even more in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 No. Look, a year or two ago that level of play of Torrence would have been better than most. He's a rookie. You can very much do worse. We've seen it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted January 8 Author Share Posted January 8 3 minutes ago, Maine-iac said: Who are you subbing in for him against Wilkins with A gap blitzes who will do better? Edwards won a Super Bowl as a starting guard with the Rams. Bates was a steady player for us last year and would be better with an improved Spencer Brown next to him. I'm not expecting sudden greatness. I would just like the floor to be raised. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillyG Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 8 minutes ago, HappyDays said: I'm not trying to be inflammatory here. This is a genuine question. Torrence has been the clear weak link on the Bills offense in recent weeks. He's getting beat inside off the snap at a frighteningly high rate. He's making mental mistakes that allow free rushers up the middle. It's no blight on him as a draft pick if we bench him. It's known that OL players in particular take time to develop, and with his body type it would not be a surprise at all if he's hit the rookie wall playing 100% of the snaps this season. And there's still 4 (hopefully) games to go... I just don't know if we can live with Torrence's mistakes in a playoff run that looks like it will be a true gauntlet. We have steady vets in David Edwards and Ryan Bates waiting in the wings. I think the coaching staff should seriously consider making a change now before it's too late. I can see why it's a question and it has some validity IMO as his play has been...I won't say bad but maybe a bit streaky over the last month. I cannot justify benching him right now, however. There is a lot to be said for communication and consistency along the line. These guys have over 1000 snaps this year with each other. Bad time to shake it up IMO. Having him out there has also seemed to help steady Spencer Brown's play as well. I roll with how it is, unless there is an underlying injury hampering him we are unaware of. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmart128 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 No not benched. But he has played his worst football these past 2 weeks against 2 top NFL DTs. Im sure he will settle down again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maine-iac Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 McGovern is probably our best pass blocking guard and he gets bull rushed often enough. Wilkins probably takes any guard we have and eats their lunch. We didn't do much running right at him which I would have like to have seen. They did however shorten up some of the passes and Kincaid and Shikir made the catches and kept the chains moving. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCAS Baritone Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 I think there's also a psychological point to this. Benching him now would put some negative vibes into the o-line. He knows that the fumble was on him and so does everybody else. Let him overcome that with the help of his mates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah John Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 5 minutes ago, Kaenon said: Wilkins is very good Wilkins IS very good but pretty much every team the Bills will face the rest of the postseason has a very good interior D lineman. Some have outstanding players and some have multiple guys. So I don't think overlooking a problem for that reason is the solution. But nor do i think benching him is the solution either. The Bills need to recognize there's a problem and work in blocking schemes that let him get through the rest of the year while keeping the Bills moving ahead. I think the O line as a whole has been hitting a wall. The big holes are coming fewer and further between, and the pass rush is getting closer to Allen. Are they worn out or are opposing defenses being crafted to attack when the league has seen the Bills doing? Probably some of both. Again the solution is not new personnel but more creative coaching, so our guys aren't sitting ducks when attacked by creative DCs from other teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 I just think Wilkins is really, really good. Torrence will be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maine-iac Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 5 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Edwards won a Super Bowl as a starting guard with the Rams. Bates was a steady player for us last year and would be better with an improved Spencer Brown next to him. I'm not expecting sudden greatness. I would just like the floor to be raised. And so did Rapp but I'm not starting him over Poyer if Poyer has a bad game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurlyBurly51 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 He's hit the rookie wall. Something to monitor but not change just yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew21PA Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 We’d seriously ? cmon man you’re a decent poster than post this garbage after winning the afc East on our stud rookie linemen? cmon …. Like I said you’re normally spot on but no not here kid is SOLID ANNNNNDDDDD i think there are a couple thousand others that need to say sorry to our RT as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted January 8 Author Share Posted January 8 Just now, Maine-iac said: And so did Rapp but I'm not starting him over Poyer if Poyer has a bad game. It isn't just one bad game though. He has been the weak link for a couple months now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Ballin Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 We need everyone for the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyBillsFan Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 19 minutes ago, HappyDays said: I'm not trying to be inflammatory here. This is a genuine question. Torrence has been the clear weak link on the Bills offense in recent weeks. He's getting beat inside off the snap at a frighteningly high rate. He's making mental mistakes that allow free rushers up the middle. It's no blight on him as a draft pick if we bench him. It's known that OL players in particular take time to develop, and with his body type it would not be a surprise at all if he's hit the rookie wall playing 100% of the snaps this season. And there's still 4 (hopefully) games to go... I just don't know if we can live with Torrence's mistakes in a playoff run that looks like it will be a true gauntlet. We have steady vets in David Edwards and Ryan Bates waiting in the wings. I think the coaching staff should seriously consider making a change now before it's too late. I would say no but it's a very fair question. He had a great game against Dallas but has struggled big time the last 2 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 12 minutes ago, HappyDays said: I don't expect it to be a popular suggestion. Personally I think Torrence's reputation on here exceeds his play. I think early season returns gave everyone a lot of optimism that has not been borne out over the back half of the season. He has a long way to go to cement his spot as a long term starter. That being said the one argument against it that makes sense to me is what you said - do you risk tearing apart the cohesion that's been built over several months of all 5 starters being the same? That is a legitimate concern. Long season, rookies often have trouble playing this many games. He also faced some real good competition to. Stick with him at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 16 minutes ago, Limeaid said: It can be due to a long season he is not used to. I think he should be active but backup. Collinsworth said the Bills are the only NFL team with the same starting OL all year. Torrence did struggle tonight but I'd leave things alone and coach him up for the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finn Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 I think it would be a good move if play quality were the only factor to consider. He's been playing poorly and might just be exhausted. Sitting a game might be just what he needs. But the move might hurt his confidence. As others have said, it might also affect the chemistry of the line. Well, the coaches know far better than we do. Let's hope their judgment matches their knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maine-iac Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Just now, HappyDays said: It isn't just one bad game though. He has been the weak link for a couple months now. Teams have been using creeper blitzes and actual blitzes in the A gap. It makes it much harder on any guards say nothing about rookies who tend to be more mauler than finesse type guys. They need to clean up the protection. I'm guessing it's as much confusion as it is anything. I have to hope it can get coached up better and have better results. I also think they could scheme up plays to get them out of the A gaps. Wilkins is a terror either way. Some weeks we do the same things to some very good teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.