So how are we feeling about Coach McDermott?

[Straight Hucklebuck]

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Has anyone changed their opinion of him over the last month?

 

This will be an emotional weekend. I’m prepared for a lot of McDermott threads Sunday night if things go poorly. I want to see how we’re feeling entering the biggest regular season game of his head coaching career.

I think the same as I did a few weeks ago.

 

I don’t love him or his style as a Coach, and do think we need a refresh on our offense by investing more resources and conducting a full OC search.

 

So with all that said, the players aren’t playing like a group that wants their Coach fired. They’re playing hard for him, have won 4-straight after the McDermott Problem article came out. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

41 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

No. I still want an offensive HC who brings in a WCO. 1st round pick must be WR.  Heck, maybe even our 2nd rounder.

I always felt that thinking is very flawed. I like pairing a franchise QB with a defensive head coach. The key factor in both cases is the coach must be good at his job.

 

We have a top 10 offense and defense every single season. 
 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, PBF81 said:

 

Fundamentally, why not?  

 

Fundamentally there are two primary points there.  First, that the D has played very well considering the injuries.  Secondly, that we have more talent all around than just about every team of the teams that we've lost to.  

 

Do you take issue with the notion that our d has played incredibly well given the injury situation?  

 

Or do you take issue with that notion that we do not have more talent than at least three of the teams that we've lost to?   Jets, Pats, Denver, Jags, Eagles, or Bengals?  

 

Curious where the disagreement is.  

 

 

 

We didn't lose to the Jets because of coaching. We lost to them because our biggest talent absolutely sucked. I don't think this was a 14-3 type roster on this schedule. I think our talent level is much more 11 or 12 wins. We lost some games we shouldn't have where coaching cost us - primarily New England and Denver. We won some where coaching was a big part. Including the last two where the Bills coaches have out performed the Bills players. 

 

But I didn't think this was a 13 or 14 win roster vs this schedule at the start. I still don't. 

[PBF81]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

We didn't lose to the Jets because of coaching. We lost to them because our biggest talent absolutely sucked. I don't think this was a 14-3 type roster on this schedule. I think our talent level is much more 11 or 12 wins. We lost some games we shouldn't have where coaching cost us - primarily New England and Denver. We won some where coaching was a big part. Including the last two where the Bills coaches have out performed the Bills players. 

 

But I didn't think this was a 13 or 14 win roster vs this schedule at the start. I still don't. 

 

That doesn't answer the question as to which of the two underlying points that I made you fundamentally disagree with, much less why.  

 

That's OK, no worries.  Again, this isn't all that important.  

 

 

[Dr.Sack]

Beane has left the offensive skill positions lacking. Allen has WRs getting little to no separation and he’s an open window thrower. I’m fine with McDermott if he doesn’t block WRs from being drafted. McDermott - Beane have to identify and develop a WR 1. Otherwise they will be done. 

Edited January 1 by Dr.Sack

[Fetou]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I always felt that thinking is very flawed. I like pairing a franchise QB with a defensive head coach. The key factor in both cases is the coach must be good at his job.

 

We have a top 10 offense and defense every single season. 
 

 

I think teams get to a point talent wise where expectations increase in the playoffs and performance in the regular season is more or less expected. Playoff performance across the years has not seemed great on the defensive side of the ball.

 

It's hard to imagine Belichick not being able to hold on to a lead with 13 seconds in an offensive shootout game.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, PBF81 said:

 

That doesn't answer the question as to which of the two underlying points that I made you fundamentally disagree with, much less why.  

 

That's OK, no worries.  Again, this isn't all that important.  

 

 

 

It does. I fundamentally disagree because I don't think the talent on this roster is 13 or 14 win type talent on this schedule. We still lack sufficient elite level talents to put up those sorts of win numbers in a year where there are 9 teams with double digit wins after 16 games. One of them is Buffalo and we will play 5 of our games against the other 8. Particularly on offense we lack elite game breakers who can do it game in game out.  

 

That is why I fundamentally disgaree.

[LABILLBACKER]

23 minutes ago, section122 said:

I would wager most people's opinioms haven't changed and won't unless they make it to at least the afc championship game.  The loudest fire mcd critics are still hung up on 13 seconds.

 

....yeah, 13 seconds is a common mistake...everyone does it 🙄

[CincyBillsFan]

Interesting question.  First my disclaimer:  McD deserves the credit for turning the franchise around and building a winning culture - that is undeniable IMO.

 

The problem as I see it is that at this moment in NFL history defensive coaches are not getting to or winning Super Bowl games.  Belicheck, the greatest defensive mind in NFL history, was the last with his masterful 13 - 3 SB victory over the Rams in the 2017 season.  Since then the SB has been dominated by offensive minded coaches and franchises. 

 

As a defensive coach and a franchise which has focused the lions share of its resources on the defense, the Bills do not appear to be set up to make a SB let alone win one.  Their competition in the AFC the last few years, KC & Cincy, have clearly road their offenses to much better outcomes.  Even the Ravens made a definitive move to focus more on their offense (new coaches and some big FA signings).

 

So yes, even after the Bills recent run I would favor replacing McD with an offensive coach.

 

But now the caveats:

 

*  If the Bills make the SB obviously you keep McD and the theory that the NFL is now dominated by offensive minded coaches would be moot.

 

*  We may be seeing a return to defense as the more important factor then offense in the NFL.  If so then obviously McD would have a leg up on most competition.

 

*  Could a defensive minded coach like McD who going forward supported focusing the lions share of the Bills FA money & draft capitol on the offense and who was okay with hiring an experienced "name" OC win a SB?  

 

For me this next game and any followup layoff games will determine whether the Bills should move on from McD.   And I say "should" because I agree with other posters that Pegula will not fire McD no matter what happens this Sunday in Miami.  McD job security will just be a discussion point on 2BD.

 

 

[ColoradoBills]

Fans that think Sean McDermott is the best or the worse are not changing their minds very much.

Personally, I think he is an above average HC, but that's me.  He's got some issues but nothing I believe is a detriment to the organization.

 

I do believe that his "loyalty" runs too deep.  I can give a bunch of examples but the most recent (this year) is the Special Teams.

Matt Smiley has been with the Bills since 2017.  I can only say with the emphasis that Beane and McD give to ST's, IMO he has underperformed.

I don't expect to see a change next season.  It's an example of what I think is his greatest fault.

 

ST's lost the Jets game and the Broncos game this season.  If anyone thinks that a HC's responsibility is to assign players to defend a FG,

I can tell you it isn't.  I won't even comment on the KC playoff loss.  It seems to me that the ST has slowly regressed since Smiley took over in 2022.

The funny thing is, if McD attempts to "upgrade" the coordinator job, those wanting him gone will just say he is trying to save his job by

swinging the axe.

[goldenboy81]

Well the team has shown how they feel the last couple weeks. The defense especially 

[PBF81]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

It does. I fundamentally disagree because I don't think the talent on this roster is 13 or 14 win type talent on this schedule. We still lack sufficient elite level talents to put up those sorts of win numbers in a year where there are 9 teams with double digit wins after 16 games. One of them is Buffalo and we will play 5 of our games against the other 8. Particularly on offense we lack elite game breakers who can do it game in game out.  

 

That is why I fundamentally disgaree.

 

So you think that beating the 4-12 Pats, 6-10 Jets, and Broncos or Jags was out of the question, three of the four?  

 

Well, OK.  Agree to disagree.  

 

The talent is relative, that's what was fundamental.  Apparently you believe that the Pats, Jets, Jags, Broncos and possibly the Bengals have more talent than we do.  I wholeheartedly disagree.  

 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, ColoradoBills said:

Fans that think Sean McDermott is the best or the worse are not changing their minds very much.

Personally, I think he is an above average HC, but that's me.  He's got some issues but nothing I believe is a detriment to the organization.

 

I do believe that his "loyalty" runs too deep.  I can give a bunch of examples but the most recent (this year) is the Special Teams.

Matt Smiley has been with the Bills since 2017.  I can only say with the emphasis that Beane and McD give to ST's, IMO he has underperformed.

I don't expect to see a change next season.  It's an example of what I think is his greatest fault.

 

ST's lost the Jets game and the Broncos game this season.  If anyone thinks that a HC's responsibility is to assign players to defend a FG,

I can tell you it isn't.  I won't even comment on the KC playoff loss.  It seems to me that the ST has slowly regressed since Smiley took over in 2022.

The funny thing is, if McD attempts to "upgrade" the coordinator job, those wanting him gone will just say he is trying to save his job by

swinging the axe.

 

He should fire Smiley. I never liked that hire. Whatever went on with Farwell after 13 seconds I don't think there was a plan in place and it was a "just promote the assistant" type move. I still remember his opening presser. He looked and sounded like a guy who had won a competition on the back of a box of Flutie Flakes. 

Just now, PBF81 said:

 

So you think that beating the 4-12 Pats, 6-10 Jets, and Broncos or Jags was out of the question, three of the four?  

 

Well, OK.  Agree to disagree.  

 

The talent is relative, that's what was fundamental.  Apparently you believe that the Pats, Jets, Jags, Broncos and possibly the Bengals have more talent than we do.  I wholeheartedly disagree.  

 

 

I don't. But the talent was what lost us the Jets game. Our biggest talent. It wasn't bad coaching that lost us that game. Our biggest talent sucked to high heaven. The Pats loss and the Broncos loss were on coaching. 

 

But again it isn't looking just at the games we lost. It is about stepping back before a ball was kicked in anger and saying this talent, that schedule, where should they be. And 11 / 12 wins always felt right to me. Maybe you'd have picked the 11 or 12 wins in a different combination than they might end up coming. But that is true most years.

[Buffalo03]

42 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

To have the division clinched two weeks ago we would have to have been 13-1 at that point. Do you really think this roster is a 13-1 roster? Particularly on this schedule? Personally I think that is ridiculous. 

Well, all 6 of our losses are one score games so certainly could have been possible 

[thenorthremembers]

43 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I think that's a bit deceiving.

 

Yes, rushing stats are up. Cook's touches are up as a result. But one of the reasons for the slide in pass stats to a boost in rush stats is also because under Brady, Josh has been used as a rusher far more. 

 

So, yes rushing stats are up but Allen's rushes are as well and the ball is still in his hands.

I agree there.  Its been good to see Josh run more, but you'd think that threat would open up the pass more.    Watching the games, and then looking at the stats, its obvious something is off with the passing offense.  My worry is you'll need that threat to win in Miami, and the playoffs, if they make it in. 

[JerseyBills]

loved him, still feel the same way 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Buffalo03 said:

Well, all 6 of our losses are one score games so certainly could have been possible 

 

Yes. But do you really look at this roster and think that is where they should be? If they'd won every game they'd be overachieving. If they end up 10-7 they will have underachieved. Vegas had the over/under at 10.5 and the formula Pro Football Reference uses had us at 11.3 wins. 

[PBF81]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I don't. But the talent was what lost us the Jets game. Our biggest talent. It wasn't bad coaching that lost us that game. Our biggest talent sucked to high heaven. The Pats loss and the Broncos loss were on coaching. 

 

But again it isn't looking just at the games we lost. It is about stepping back before a ball was kicked in anger and saying this talent, that schedule, where should they be. And 11 / 12 wins always felt right to me. Maybe you'd have picked the 11 or 12 wins in a different combination than they might end up coming. But that is true most years.

 

OK, so that's two more games (Pats and Broncos) per your admission.  

 

So does it change anything if I reword the argument to 12-4 instead of 13-3?  

 

As to the Jets game, suggesting that coaching had nothing to do with that one is a bit of a reach given that we ran the ball 16 times by our RBs, against a team that ultimately had a 24th ranked rushing defense, and contrasted with 2-and-half times that in passing plays.  

 

Perhaps a more suitable game-plan would have been wise.  Allen doesn't create the game-plans.  

 

Good coaches find workarounds in situations like that in close games.  

 

Yeah, Allen sucked, but our coaching easily could have helped him out a little bit more.  And yeah yeah, Dorsey schmorsey, is McD in charge, or isn't he.  

 

 

[Rubes]

2 hours ago, zow2 said:

I'll feel much better about Coach McD if they manage to contain Miami's offense and make Tua uncomfortable.

 

...Again...

[Comebackkid]

1 minute ago, PBF81 said:

 

OK, so that's two more games (Pats and Broncos) per your admission.  

 

So does it change anything if I reword the argument to 12-4 instead of 13-3?  

 

As to the Jets game, suggesting that coaching had nothing to do with that one is a bit of a reach given that we ran the ball 16 times by our RBs, against a team that ultimately had a 24th ranked rushing defense, and contrasted with 2-and-half times that in passing plays.  

 

Perhaps a more suitable game-plan would have been wise.  Allen doesn't create the game-plans.  

 

Good coaches find workarounds in situations like that in close games.  

 

Yeah, Allen sucked, but our coaching easily could have helped him out a little bit more.  And yeah yeah, Dorsey schmorsey, is McD in charge, or isn't he.  

 

 

That was on Dorsey...Dorsey got fired for  being an Idiot coach.   Game day you have OC for a reason...to run the offense.   Its not really the HC job to micro manage the OC on game day.  

 

your beating a dead dog with Gunner..he answered  your questions.

[Big Blitz]

Always loved him always knew he was a good coach and one of the 5 best in the league - until 13 seconds (was still a good coach but this was unforgivable and why he could end up being replaced), the OC choice, the “stepping away” of Frazier, the firing of the OC, Diggs drama, and the way this team played down to competition this year, all were red flags of a team that had tuned him out or at least wasn’t responding to the message anymore.  
 

The team’s response to him after the Chiefs game says a lot and eliminates my concern about them tuning him out.  He remains able to get buy in and he’s proven he knows defense.  
 

 

But this offense and its QB - if they play Sunday night like they did against New England, how do you not ask “what is the answer here?”  Well firing him ain’t happening regardless Sunday so this discussion in my opinion is over until next season.  They won’t fire him after doing what he’s done and then goes 10-7.  
 

My wanting to replace McD is almost exclusively about getting someone to maximize Josh Allen, not Terrell Bernard.
 

I’ll say this.  If he wins Sunday I’m letting 13 seconds go.  Because if he finishes this run off here down the stretch it’s probably the best work of coaching he’s done here.  While being DC on top of that.  Miami is beat up and not as desperate as we should be.  
 

Win.  Get the 2 seed.  He’ll have proved he can do that with a garbage OC he fired mid season which should go a long way for fans and then hopefully we get or found already the right one.  

Edited January 2 by Big Blitz

[PBF81]

1 minute ago, Comebackkid said:

That was on Dorsey...Dorsey got fired for  being an Idiot coach.   Game day you have OC for a reason...to run the offense.   Its not really the HC job to micro manage the OC on game day.  

 

your beating a dead dog with Gunner..he answered  your questions.

 

What are you, his mom?  

 

He hasn't answered them directly.  He's hedging, as he often does.  I'm just not letting him off the hook.  

 

 

[Donuts and Doritos]

That timeout to change the 3&1 offensive play call to the tush push was perfect coaching.

 

He saw a problem and immediately fixed it. That made me feel better about his coaching.

 

Now the "over thinker" Joe Brady on the other hand....

 

Edited January 2 by Donuts and Doritos

[Bermuda Triangle]

1 hour ago, Dopey said:

 Interesting that no one brings up the Jets loss. We win that first Jets game (which Josh lost for us), and we’re tied with Miami for the division lead and have the tiebreaker. But, hey, can’t be a Josh problem. Was the 12 men on the field a coaching issue? Sure. Was the Jets game a Josh issue? Yep. By the way, Josh has started a new interception streak. 

The defense, against the Zach Wilson-led Jets, sucked in Week 1.  

[Comebackkid]

Just now, PBF81 said:

 

What are you, his mom?  

 

He hasn't answered them directly.  He's hedging, as he often does.  I'm just not letting him off the hook.  

 

 

are you his nag?.....    your just trying to bully him into answer that fits your agenda

[ColoradoBills]

15 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

He should fire Smiley. I never liked that hire. Whatever went on with Farwell after 13 seconds I don't think there was a plan in place and it was a "just promote the assistant" type move. I still remember his opening presser. He looked and sounded like a guy who had won a competition on the back of a box of Flutie Flakes. 

 

I felt the same.  My impression of Matt during his pressers is a guy who goes along with the flow.  He doesn't strike me as an innovator.

I hesitate bad mouthing the guy from such superficial moments, but I do think with the talent of the STs, they should perform better.

[Einstein]

I like McD and want him to be the one who brings us home a Super Bowl.

 

He is a good man.

 

But there are still some gameday issues that bother me. For example, yesterday, when we did the whole “fake like you’re going to go for 4th and 1” game… why did he call a timeout? Just take the delay of game if you’re going to punt regardless. Save that timeout.

 

The other flaw that bothers me is his persistence in keeping bad players on the field for too long. Von should have been sat weeks ago. I understand he is coming back from an industry but he is not helping us as a team yet. So sit him. Same with Murray.

 

Stuff like that bugs me, but I guess no-one is perfect.

[Charles Romes]

A lot of things we will miss when he’s gone, like his ability to totally dismantle average to poor quarterbacks, his ability to scout quality DBs on the cheap, his ability to see an undersized third round linebacker as a defensive centerpiece. 

[Breakout Squad]

2 hours ago, Malazan said:

Short of a Superbowl, I think they need a change. There's something wrong with the way this team conducts itself. They are flat and unprepared and seem to have volatile emotional swings throughout the season and within individual games. I mean, that happens, but it's too much. The lack of consistency is their biggest problem.

Super Bowl or bust? So if we lose in the SB to the 49ers by 1 point you say fire him? 
 

He deserves better than that. 

[ColoradoBills]

1 minute ago, Charles Romes said:

A lot of things we will miss when he’s gone, like his ability to totally dismantle average to poor quarterbacks, his ability to scout quality DBs on the cheap, his ability to see an undersized third round linebacker as a defensive centerpiece. 

 

The grass is always greener.......................right over the septic tank!

[PBF81]

5 minutes ago, Comebackkid said:

are you his nag?.....    your just trying to bully him into answer that fits your agenda

 

He has never had any trouble speaking for himself, thank you!  

 

 

[Comebackkid]

24 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

Fans that think Sean McDermott is the best or the worse are not changing their minds very much.

Personally, I think he is an above average HC, but that's me.  He's got some issues but nothing I believe is a detriment to the organization.

 

I do believe that his "loyalty" runs too deep.  I can give a bunch of examples but the most recent (this year) is the Special Teams.

Matt Smiley has been with the Bills since 2017.  I can only say with the emphasis that Beane and McD give to ST's, IMO he has underperformed.

I don't expect to see a change next season.  It's an example of what I think is his greatest fault.

 

ST's lost the Jets game and the Broncos game this season.  If anyone thinks that a HC's responsibility is to assign players to defend a FG,

I can tell you it isn't.  I won't even comment on the KC playoff loss.  It seems to me that the ST has slowly regressed since Smiley took over in 2022.

The funny thing is, if McD attempts to "upgrade" the coordinator job, those wanting him gone will just say he is trying to save his job by

swinging the axe.

This is kinda where im at.    I think that he has personal that is letting him down which isnt directly on his coaching abilty but  still puts it under the jurisdiction of the head coach.   I think he could do a better job of looking at the big picture of whats best for the team.   

 

If we were to hire another head coach who would have that responibilty?....Pegula?   thats a gamble.   

 

2 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

He has never had any trouble speaking for himself, thank you!  

 

 

your welcome?

[CincyBillsFan]

11 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

My wanting to replace McD is almost exclusively about getting someone to maximize Josh Allen, not Terrell Bernard.
 

Bingo.  We lucked out and got a rare talent at QB.  The job was and continues to be to surround this generational talent with exceptional play makers, O line and offensive coaching.

 

 

 

[julian]

I’m still in the same boat I found myself after the Broncos game, I’d prefer if they’d move on to a proven offensive coach but I’m not looking to fire him for some defensive retread or unproven assistant.

 

 That being said, McDermott isn’t going anywhere, he’s a very good coach, top 5 defensive mind in the game and his players and ownership love him.

[Governor]

If we fail to appear in the AFC championship game he should be let go.

 

Theres teams and coaches playing better than us with backup QB’s right now and could win playoff games. Simply getting to the postseason isn’t good enough for McD. Our offense has been healthy all season.

[wjag]

He should stay.  When the season is over, he should take a hard look at the OC and DC roles.  Like others have said on here, his use of time outs is maddening.

[LeGOATski]

Same. Great coach. Best the Bills have had since Marv. Whatever drama is going on, he always gets the team to bounce back. He's not scared to make the tough choices (dropping Frazier, firing Dorsey, benching Von, etc). Despite being a defensive guy, he has a great philosophy for offense. I hope he and Josh can put it all together for a championship, but it's really no skin off my back if they don't. They put a quality product on the field year after year and I'm actually having fun watching Bills football.

[BritishBill]

The enigma that is Sean McDermott…

 

Key Facts in his favour :

Best win % of any bills coach in history, including Levy, Saban.

More wins than any Bills coach in history, bar Levy

 

Broke the playoff drought and has had us there continuously in all but one season

 

Key Question marks against him:

Gifted a generational QB and is yet to take him beyond the AFCCG. Would another coach have gotten more from Josh Allen?

 

Some inexplicable, avoidable losses in key moments. Surely he has to take responsibility for some of these? Especially 13 seconds…

 

Has he hit his ceiling as a coach? Does he have the balls and the skill to coach this team past it’s level?

 

 

I don’t have a strong opinion either way. I’d be interested to know from those who followed the Bills in the superbowls era - was everyone united around Marv Levy or did he come in for criticism for not getting the Bills over the line?

Perhaps back then the fans didn’t have the same voice as they do now with social media and internet forums! 
 

FWIW I appreciate McDermott the man. He has a dignity and calmness about him - he’s not a show pony or crazy egomaniac. But I do wonder sometimes if he’s missing that little bit of x-factor or mystique that the great coaches have. 
 

Biggest question for me though is this: if Sean McDermott isn’t the man, then who is? Who will take us to the promised land? 

 

 

 

 

[Chaos]

17 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

(which Josh lost for us

Special teams lost in over time.  True fact. You can look it up. 

[Bermuda Triangle]

14 minutes ago, Charles Romes said:

A lot of things we will miss when he’s gone, like his ability to totally dismantle average to poor quarterbacks, his ability to scout quality DBs on the cheap, his ability to see an undersized third round linebacker as a defensive centerpiece. 

how much of the bolded is Beane, and how much is McDermott?