Last 4 games WR's average 107 yards total per game

[Mikie2times]

If you recall we barely threw to the WR's vs KC. Then we had the Dallas game where we barely threw a pass. Last week the Charger game in which Gabe DID have a pretty big day. Then just today.

 

It's a bit crazy to think, our entire unit is at 107 yard average the last 4 games. That is less than what Steph got used to pulling in alone.  

 

Can it work with this level of production? I don't think we can keep expecting to manufacture points like this. What is happening anyway? Yes, easy to say the WR's suck, but isn't it basically the same unit as last year, likely even slightly better? The line did not play well today, but isn't that unit better than last year by a good margin? 

 

Any thought on if you think this is a rut or perhaps something bigger is occurring? 

[Beast]

I think we all know what we will be calling for in round 1 next April.

[yall]

25 minutes ago, Beast said:

I think we all know what we will be calling for in round 1 next April.

An undersized defensive end?

[Einstein]

Josh missed a couple guys today, but overall, everyone was blanketed. 

 

It was sad to see.

 

Just zero separation as far as the eye could see.

 

A barren landscape with skin-and-bones antelope running without food in sight.

[Mynamemike]

34 minutes ago, Beast said:

I think we all know what we will be calling for in round 1 next April.

Another Edge rusher? 

[The Jokeman]

3 minutes ago, Mynamemike said:

Another Edge rusher? 

If Floyd and AJE leave in free agency it's not a crazy thought. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Something is off for sure, the passing offense has taken a step back as a whole, not just Allen. 
 

I would say Brady may not be a shoe in to get the OC job. 

[LABILLBACKER]

Basically our current offense centers around several Josh tush push tds. WR's are getting no separation. Diggs & Josh have lost their chemistry. You know you're in serious trouble when Shakir & Kincaid have to save you. Our WR1/WR2 production is basically zero and we can't realistically expect a deep playoff run with that.

[Bferra13]

Greg Cossell did his weekly OBL thing this week as he does and he brought up how Josh has really looked uncomfortable in the pocket this year and leaves it very prematurely on a regular basis. In doing this, its not giving the WR's proper time to seperate and everyone has to go off script. He's right. This game wasn't the best example because the oline play wasn't great, but bigger picture this is a problem. 

Edited January 1 by Bferra13

[Nextmanup]

Is there a pressing reason why this couldn't have been a post in the "What's wrong with the passing O" thread?  

 

 

[SCBills]

Diggs usage is bizarre and when he’s out there is a whole lotta meh.  Runs a route and then comes off the field for the rest of the series.    
 

Davis is what he is.  A great blocking receiver who is a legitimate deep threat.  Not a reliable go to option / chain mover.  
 

Shakir is solid.  
 

We have nothing else. 
 

Sherfield is contractually obligated to not catch passes. 
 

Harty is a non-factor.  
 

But hey.. we all know Allen likes throwing to shifty separating WR’s, so here’s some Tight Ends.  
 

The neglect at WR has been insane.. called out every single year.. and hopefully it doesn’t doom this team.  
 

Diggs needs to figure out how to become Diggs again.. because lately the dude is basically Emmanuel Sanders of a couple years ago. 
 

Edited January 1 by SCBills

[78thealltimegreat]

My honest opinion is these guys have trouble getting separation teams anymore are jamming the WRs at the line of scrimmage.
In addition Steph Diggs just doesn’t look like the same player. I don’t know if he’s hurt or maybe he’s just starting to wear down or his play is starting to decline faster then anyone thought…but it goes without saying WR is really the biggest priority this off season…that and getting younger on defense. 

[hondo in seattle]

On 12/31/2023 at 3:00 PM, Mikie2times said:

If you recall we barely threw to the WR's vs KC. Then we had the Dallas game where we barely threw a pass. Last week the Charger game in which Gabe DID have a pretty big day. Then just today.

 

It's a bit crazy to think, our entire unit is at 107 yard average the last 4 games. That is less than what Steph got used to pulling in alone.  

 

Can it work with this level of production? I don't think we can keep expecting to manufacture points like this. What is happening anyway? Yes, easy to say the WR's suck, but isn't it basically the same unit as last year, likely even slightly better? The line did not play well today, but isn't that unit better than last year by a good margin? 

 

Any thought on if you think this is a rut or perhaps something bigger is occurring? 

 

Our receivers aren't that bad.   

 

Part of the problem is that Josh hasn't been playing well.  Hurt?  Yips?  Romantic problems?  

 

But mostly I blame Brady.  He's diversified the offense which is good but he's not scheming guys open.  

[mrags]

On 12/31/2023 at 8:29 PM, Beast said:

I think we all know what we will be calling for in round 1 next April.

Yup. A DT or S. It’s a shame we have a defensive minded coach 

[PromoTheRobot]

Let's flip the conversation. The Bills are no longer a pass-only offense. Teams have to worry about defending the run too.

Just now, mrags said:

Yup. A DT or S. It’s a shame we have a defensive minded coach 

 

Is that why we drafted a TE and an OG in the first two rounds?

[HeHateMe]

Josh hasn't been comfortable, his deep ball % has to be awful.  Diggs isn't separating as much and when he does Josh misses him.  It's hard to be confident in Davis since he has stone hands.  Same with Knox.  Kincaid is a bright spot but is still learning the game.  Shakir is OK.  We need a dynamic WR badly.  Diggs should maybe move to the slot after this year..

[mrags]

2 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Let's flip the conversation. The Bills are no longer a pass-only offense. Teams have to worry about defending the run too.

 

Is that why we drafted a TE and an OG in the first two rounds?

Well. We absolutely needed a linemen so I have no doubt about Torrence. But let’s be real, it’s the first offensive first round pick McDermott has ever made other than Allen. Stats are stats. And half of his 2nd and 3rd rounders have been RBs that don’t even play for the team anymore. 

[SCBills]

Would love if the Bills can find a way to keep Jones and one of Floyd/Epenesa.. then I'd honestly go back to back RD1/RD2 WR with how insanely good this Draft is at that position, and the fact we're likely heading into the new league year with only Diggs, Shakir and Shorter.  

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

On 12/31/2023 at 9:31 PM, Bferra13 said:

Greg Cossell did his weekly OBL thing this week as he does and he brought up how Josh has really looked uncomfortable in the pocket this year and leaves it very prematurely on a regular basis. In doing this, its not giving the WR's proper time to seperate and everyone has to go off script. He's right. This game wasn't the best example because the oline play wasn't great, but bigger picture this is a problem. 

I don’t think any of the recent bad offensive games have been a good example of that 😂. He does seem to do that a little too much in the games where the interior offensive line isn’t getting blown up though and I think that opening week loss to the jets he did it a good amount too 

[Dopey]

13 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Let's flip the conversation. The Bills are no longer a pass-only offense. Teams have to worry about defending the run too.

 

Is that why we drafted a TE and an OG in the first two rounds?

Dude, stop making sense here. Not allowed. 

[PBF81]

"Complimentary football."  

 

Focus on the Defense as if it's the '90s and RBs are essential to success despite all of the rules favoring QBs, receivers, and the passing game.  Let's see if it A, gets us to the playoffs, and B, what it does when we get there.  

 

Nothing like minimizing the strength of our team.  

 

Yeah yeah, 5-1 since Brady took over.  All but ignored are that we played the Chargers JV team, the Jets, and Pats for three of those 5 wins, ... and nearly lost two of them.  Hardly inspiring.  

 

Our two highest scoring games under Brady were also coincidentally our two with the most passing yards.  The Jets and Philly.  

 

Dallas is the single outlier and we caught them in a three-game slump, continuing, where they're averaging fewer than 17 PPG, over two TDs less than their season average in their other 13 games.  

 

In the other three games, vs. the Chargers JV, the Pats, both of which we nearly lost, only winning the NE game because of the D, and KC, wherein we were outgained by both KC and NE, we averaged 23.7 PPG.  KC's offense blows this season.  They're ranked 12th in scoring.  KC's in a slump of their own, going 4-5 in their last 9 with losses to Denver, Green Bay, and the Raiders.  

 

Not sure that this is the recipe for beating the Fins or playoff success, but we'll find out shortly.  

 

How many other teams are there that have had top-3 QBs but haven't made them the focus of their teams.  (rhetorical). 

 

 

[Beast]

28 minutes ago, mrags said:

Yup. A DT or S. It’s a shame we have a defensive minded coach 

Who did we pick in the 1st round last April?

[The Wiz]

The yards should be more but also keep in mind the bills had short fields 3 times against the pats because of turnovers in their own end.

[SoMAn]

The last four games, the bills have averaged one win per game. The only statistic that matters.

[Rockinon]

On 12/31/2023 at 6:00 PM, Mikie2times said:

If you recall we barely threw to the WR's vs KC. Then we had the Dallas game where we barely threw a pass. Last week the Charger game in which Gabe DID have a pretty big day. Then just today.

 

It's a bit crazy to think, our entire unit is at 107 yard average the last 4 games. That is less than what Steph got used to pulling in alone.  

 

Can it work with this level of production? I don't think we can keep expecting to manufacture points like this. What is happening anyway? Yes, easy to say the WR's suck, but isn't it basically the same unit as last year, likely even slightly better? The line did not play well today, but isn't that unit better than last year by a good margin? 

 

Any thought on if you think this is a rut or perhaps something bigger is occurring? 

We've also won our last four games. That being said, I think Josh is going to light up the score board early and often this week.

[PBF81]

On 12/31/2023 at 9:34 PM, SCBills said:

Diggs usage is bizarre and when he’s out there is a whole lotta meh.  Runs a route and then comes off the field for the rest of the series.    

 

Sherfield is contractually obligated to not catch passes. 
 

Harty is a non-factor.  
 

The neglect at WR has been insane.. called out every single year.. and hopefully it doesn’t doom this team.  

 

We likely haven't heard the end from Diggs.  Not sure why anyone thinks he'll be content upon the season ending.  It's not him.  

 

Not sure why anyone ever thought that either Sherfield or Harty would do anything.  Both have had one decent season in 11 combined seasons for a 4/5 WR, but both times on teams bereft of WR talent otherwise, thereby forcing the situations.  Neither has ever "stepped up" so to speak.  They've done all but nothing in 9 other combined seasons.  There's a reason for that.  

 

The neglect at WR has been insane.  But that's what comes with "The Process," a defensive-minded head coach that's obsessed with the play of his D, and now grasping at anything to keep his job and doing it in the only way he knows how, and now "complimentary football" which we don't hear other teams with top QBs talking about.  

 

This week's game and then, if it happens, the ensuing playoff games, are going to be revealing and further expose what's wrong with this team.  

 

 

6 minutes ago, Beast said:

Who did we pick in the 1st round last April?

 

Have we maximized and optimized that player's usage?  

 

Has what the team said about our offense upon his drafting come to pass?  

 

 

 

 

Edited January 2 by PBF81

[Royale with Cheese]

On 12/31/2023 at 9:31 PM, Bferra13 said:

Greg Cossell did his weekly OBL thing this week as he does and he brought up how Josh has really looked uncomfortable in the pocket this year and leaves it very prematurely on a regular basis. In doing this, its not giving the WR's proper time to seperate and everyone has to go off script. He's right. This game wasn't the best example because the oline play wasn't great, but bigger picture this is a problem. 

 

This is what I am seeing as well.  Allen is jittery.  He has been jittery a lot this year.  He looked like he was getting back with the Eagles and Jets game but now he's back to being jittery and happy feet.  He is throwing off of his back foot and off balance a lot.  When he steps in and throws it, he looks poised and great.

Now he looks like rookie Josh these last few games.

Edited January 2 by Royale with Cheese

[mrags]

19 minutes ago, Beast said:

Who did we pick in the 1st round last April?

So 1 draft out of 7 he picked an offensive player. 

[Cray51]

10 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

"Complimentary football."  

 

Focus on the Defense as if it's the '90s and RBs are essential to success despite all of the rules favoring QBs, receivers, and the passing game.  Let's see if it A, gets us to the playoffs, and B, what it does when we get there.  

 

Nothing like minimizing the strength of our team.  

 

Yeah yeah, 5-1 since Brady took over.  All but ignored are that we played the Chargers JV team, the Jets, and Pats for three of those 5 wins, ... and nearly lost two of them.  Hardly inspiring.  

 

Our two highest scoring games under Brady were also coincidentally our two with the most passing yards.  The Jets and Philly.  

 

Dallas is the single outlier and we caught them in a three-game slump, continuing, where they're averaging fewer than 17 PPG, over two TDs less than their season average in their other 13 games.  

 

In the other three games, vs. the Chargers JV, the Pats, both of which we nearly lost, only winning the NE game because of the D, and KC, wherein we were outgained by both KC and NE, we averaged 23.7 PPG.  KC's offense blows this season.  They're ranked 12th in scoring.  KC's in a slump of their own, going 4-5 in their last 9 with losses to Denver, Green Bay, and the Raiders.  

 

Not sure that this is the recipe for beating the Fins or playoff success, but we'll find out shortly.  

 

How many other teams are there that have had top-3 QBs but haven't made them the focus of their teams.  (rhetorical). 

 

 

I mean, if we used negative words of course we can discredit the wins we have.  We played a Chargers team with a new HC in their first week, with jobs to play for.  And we won.  We played a Chiefs team who have a top 3 QB who is the focus of the offense, and beat them.  In KC.  And their defense is spectacular this year.  We played an Eagles team who is fighting for a division title, and lost a close game where Allen and Davis were a simple miscommunication from winning.  We played a Patriots team who were 2-1 in their last 3 and have a very good defense (allowed over 30 points only once in their last 11 games). We beat up a Dallas team by doing exactly what we should, exploiting their weaknesses.  We are 5-1 in our last 6.  

 

My opinion is this offense doesn't have an identity, because our previous identity (pass heavy offense with an elite QB/WR) isn't good enough anymore.  Davis has had a poor catch rate, Allen doesn't trust his receivers on tight throws, probably because he constantly hears how turnover prone he is.  Diggs is likely battling some sort of injury or issue that is limiting him on effectiveness, and he has dropped balls that in previous years he would catch.  We just dont have the offense to play like we did with Daboll.  It's why Allen has 14 RUSHING td's on the year. 

 

The team is in a transition on offense.  They will likely go WR early in the draft, and try to bring in talent that will ultimately replace Davis.  Shakir is a decent player but not a plus slot guy like Beasley was.  Harty is a poor mans Mckenzie.  I dont blame Beane for this, I think it's the reality of roster construction.  We shored up the OL and sacrificed in the talent areas.  We are the opposite of the Dolphins, who have great weapons but a poor OL.

 

This week is THE week to see what we are.  Can we beat a Dolphins team that plays well at home?  Or do we fold, have turnovers, and struggle to move the ball?  Im hoping we come out with the W and the division title!

 

 

[Beast]

18 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

Have we maximized and optimized that player's usage?  

 

Has what the team said about our offense upon his drafting come to pass?  

 

 

 

 

Define maximized.
 

However, considering he just broke the Bills record for receptions by a rookie, I’d say yes.

Edited January 2 by Beast

[goldenboy81]

Maybe diggs can start taking himself out on 2nd downs that way he can be on the field for 3rd. Sherfield ain't cutting it

[finn]

On 12/31/2023 at 9:20 PM, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Something is off for sure, the passing offense has taken a step back as a whole, not just Allen. 
 

I would say Brady may not be a shoe in to get the OC job. 

Two games in a row the offense has not done very well. This game is the one to turn it around so they have momentum and confidence going into the playoffs. I'd like to see some adjustments. Slants, more 12 looks, fade passes in the red zone... anything besides throwing it to a RB or WR in the flat. But even more than that I'd like to see a big running game, maybe sitting Murray for Fournette, who has much better hands and can get you the short yardage, too. I really like Ty Johnson, would like to see him more. 

 

200 yards rushing and a heavy does of play-action passes would work just fine for me. 

[Beck Water]

On 12/31/2023 at 8:20 PM, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Something is off for sure, the passing offense has taken a step back as a whole, not just Allen. 
 

I would say Brady may not be a shoe in to get the OC job. 

 

I don't think Brady was ever a sho-in to get the OC job, but he did have a chance for a great audition, and so far the results are mixed.

[947]

We need to go back to the Spread. We're using the bunch formations & jumbo packages way too much. Yeah, we're running well out of those, but our WRs aren't getting separation quick enough. Spread it out, and the quick reads will be there again.

 

And Sherfield should only see the field if somebody gets hurt, there's a "miscommunication" more than 50% of the time he's targeted. I think we've all seen enough.

[PBF81]

15 minutes ago, Cray51 said:

I mean, if we used negative words of course we can discredit the wins we have.  We played a Chargers team with a new HC in their first week, with jobs to play for.  And we won.  We played a Chiefs team who have a top 3 QB who is the focus of the offense, and beat them.  In KC.  And their defense is spectacular this year.  We played an Eagles team who is fighting for a division title, and lost a close game where Allen and Davis were a simple miscommunication from winning.  We played a Patriots team who were 2-1 in their last 3 and have a very good defense (allowed over 30 points only once in their last 11 games). We beat up a Dallas team by doing exactly what we should, exploiting their weaknesses.  We are 5-1 in our last 6.  

 

My opinion is this offense doesn't have an identity, because our previous identity (pass heavy offense with an elite QB/WR) isn't good enough anymore.  Davis has had a poor catch rate, Allen doesn't trust his receivers on tight throws, probably because he constantly hears how turnover prone he is.  Diggs is likely battling some sort of injury or issue that is limiting him on effectiveness, and he has dropped balls that in previous years he would catch.  We just dont have the offense to play like we did with Daboll.  It's why Allen has 14 RUSHING td's on the year. 

 

The team is in a transition on offense.  They will likely go WR early in the draft, and try to bring in talent that will ultimately replace Davis.  Shakir is a decent player but not a plus slot guy like Beasley was.  Harty is a poor mans Mckenzie.  I dont blame Beane for this, I think it's the reality of roster construction.  We shored up the OL and sacrificed in the talent areas.  We are the opposite of the Dolphins, who have great weapons but a poor OL.

 

This week is THE week to see what we are.  Can we beat a Dolphins team that plays well at home?  Or do we fold, have turnovers, and struggle to move the ball?  Im hoping we come out with the W and the division title!

 

 

 

There's a lot to debate there.  

 

But what's interesting is that you cite Mahomes as a top-3 QB and us beating them as a positive, while leap-frogging the fact that the WRs that he has in addition to an aging 34-year old primary target TE aren't even as good as Diggs, Davis, or Kincaid otherwise.  What's good for the goose is good for the gander.  

 

What we're seeing in KC is exactly the importance of having something other than JAGs as WRs.  

 

 

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, mrags said:

Well. We absolutely needed a linemen so I have no doubt about Torrence. But let’s be real, it’s the first offensive first round pick McDermott has ever made other than Allen. Stats are stats. And half of his 2nd and 3rd rounders have been RBs that don’t even play for the team anymore. 

 

Both sides of the ball are important. I feel pretty good about it defense going into (hopefully) the playoffs. If you keep your opponent's scoring down, Josh & Co. don't have to light up the scoreboard to win.

[Dopey]

20 minutes ago, mrags said:

Well. We absolutely needed a linemen so I have no doubt about Torrence. But let’s be real, it’s the first offensive first round pick McDermott has ever made other than Allen. Stats are stats. And half of his 2nd and 3rd rounders have been RBs that don’t even play for the team anymore. 

Stats are stats.

Since 2018(Beanse’s first draft with us): 12 picks in rounds 2 & 3. 

They picked 3 RBs: Moss and Singletary and Cook. 
That’s half of a half(1/4)
If you want to include 2017 when Beane wasn’t here yet:

Zay and Dawkins in the 2nd round. We had no 2nd in the 2017 draft. 
Since you made it about Mcd:

14 picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds for Mcd: 3 RBs and 1 still here. My calculator broke. Is that even a smaller percentage? Not to mention it would be 1/3 of those RBs not here anymore. 

Just doing my part to try and quell false narratives here. 

As an aside, since 2018: 

20 defensive picks

23 offensive picks

Since 2017:

23 defensive picks 

26 offensive picks 

 

[PBF81]

16 minutes ago, Beast said:

Define maximized.
 

However, considering he just broke the Bills record for receptions by a rookie, I’d say yes.

 

Maximize:  "increase to a maximum," "make the most of," 1 & 2 in Webster's.  

 

Too much focus on a semi-meaningless stat in isolation.  

 

It seems that we could have gotten much more from him this season, particularly in terms of TDs and YPR.  

 

He's 8th among TEs for Receptions, 4th in Catch%, but 13th in Yards, 26th in TDs, 15th in YPG, and 27th in Yards-per-Reception, and among many incredibly pedestrian TEs in some of those latter cats.  

 

Hope that helps.  

 

 

[The Wiz]

36 minutes ago, mrags said:

So 1 draft out of 7 he picked an offensive player. 

I mean technically the diggs trade counts as "picking an offensive player"

[Cray51]

10 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

There's a lot to debate there.  

 

But what's interesting is that you cite Mahomes as a top-3 QB and us beating them as a positive, while leap-frogging the fact that the WRs that he has in addition to an aging 34-year old primary target TE aren't even as good as Diggs, Davis, or Kincaid otherwise.  What's good for the goose is good for the gander.  

 

What we're seeing in KC is exactly the importance of having something other than JAGs as WRs.  

 

 

You have always been thorough in your assessments, which I respect.   I tend to throw a lot of points in one post so pardon any layered thoughts.

 

I agree - what we are seeing KC right now is what the Bills COULD be if they dont address their lack of weapons.  Kincaid has shown to be a good receiving TE, can we develop him into a top 5 TE in the league?  Does Shakir develop into a slot guy that is truly a differentiator?  Do we draft TWO outside options and move Diggs to slot/motion moving forward?  What I dont want is next year we go in with Diggs/Shorter on the outside and Shakir in the slot.  That's eerily close to KC level of crappy talent. 

 

At the end of the day, even without a top end WR room I think the Bills are a playoff team.  I just don't think they are a Super Bowl team.  Same with KC right now.  They are a playoff team, but not a Super Bowl Team.  It's important that Beane continues to address holes on the team and drafts well.  Things he has shown to do in the past.

 

Unfortunately, this season will ride on Allen's ability to create, and the team's ability to win the turnover battle.  We likely aren't going to win in a straight shootout with teams.  We need to control our possessions, convert redzone opportunities to TDs, and play sound defense, limiting teams to FGs.  In the offseason, we will see where we do in FA and the draft.

 

I remember the reports that the Bills really wanted Jalen Addison.... what could have been!