Will the Chiefs Fire Reid?

[Punching Bag]

51 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Here is the problem, Philly canned Reid despite 4 NFCC appearances and 1 of those a superbowl, because they knew they weren't going to win one with him.  They were right.  

 

Many of us feel the same about McDermott. 

 

36 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

LOL, that is absolutely impossible to know.

 

Of course it is.  Saw it posted on internet.

 

Same thing with this "@SoonerBillsFan would rather have Fish win than Coach McDermott coach a win.".

 

Both posted on internet.

[GunnerBill]

34 minutes ago, BearNorth said:

Philly canned Pederson within 3 years of WINNING a Superbowl with a backup QB.

 

Because he had ruined relationships with pretty much everyone in the organisation. I don't know how many times it needs saying but Doug Pederson was not fired primarily for on field results. He was fired primarily for what happened in the building not on the field. 

39 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

I will say it was nice to see the Bills do everything right after the last Cook fumble against the Chargers, and come up big in all phases/coaching decisions to close out the game. Have to credit McD and the staff for improvement in late game management there, and hope that continues to where we can start calling it a trend!

 

The Bills coaches did a better job than the Bills players against the Chargers. 

[Billsflyer12]

21 minutes ago, section122 said:

 

After he went 4-11-1 and refused to fire his oc.  That's a far cry from anything McD has done.

 

Everytime this comes up I ask which year did the Bills lose in the playoffs with the better team? There isn't one.

 

Allen is one of the top 3 qbs in the league.  The Bills have only lost to the other 2 top guys.

 

At least 1 guy in the thread is being honest.  He hasnt moved past 13 seconds.  I feel everyone who wants him fired is in the same boat.

There must be a lot of new posters here on the board or just blind McD loyalists.  The reasons so many think the chances the McD ever wins a Super Bowl with the Bills are extremely low have been posted with lots of data, statistics and reasons like maybe 100 times.  Literally.  There has also been EXTENSIVE talk about other examples of coaches being replaced with much better resumes than McD.

 

 If anyone at all cares about a reasoned arguments, whether you agree or not, they are so easy to find on this board in tons of places.  My guess is at this point neither side is changing each others mind.  The reality is the only person whose opinion matters on this topic is Terry, and I don’t get the sense that there is anything McD can do that ever gets him to replace him.

Edited December 27, 2023 by Billsflyer12

[frostbitmic]

Fire him I say ... Get rid of him KC, he'll never win you another Super Bowl ... They should trade Mahomes to the NFC or CFL as well.

[GunnerBill]

24 minutes ago, section122 said:

 

After he went 4-11-1 and refused to fire his oc.  That's a far cry from anything McD has done.

 

Everytime this comes up I ask which year did the Bills lose in the playoffs with the better team? There isn't one.

 

Allen is one of the top 3 qbs in the league.  The Bills have only lost to the other 2 top guys.

 

At least 1 guy in the thread is being honest.  He hasnt moved past 13 seconds.  I feel everyone who wants him fired is in the same boat.

 

Best post in the thread.

[MarlinTheMagician]

17 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

Reid is 9-6 with an elite QB.  Inexcusable.  

 

Yeah, I'm being sarcastic.  And, yes, the situation with McD isn't exactly equivalent.  Reid's earned patience with his trophies.  McD doesn't have that cred yet.  Still, they're both 9-6 this season despite having great QBs.  

 

The Head Coach is important and should be held accountable for the performance of his team.  But I like to remember that he's just one piece of a large organization that includes a lot of immature 20-something-year-old kids.  I wouldn't judge Rembrandt on one of his brushstrokes.  Likewise, I don't judge a coach on one season or one game, let alone 13 seconds of a game.  

 

Vince Lombardi, Belichick, Walsh... all the great coaches suffered through disappointing seasons whether it was because of injuries, bad luck, poor player chemistry, a weak roster, or whatever.   Having a good QB doesn't automatically mean a team should appear in the SB.  If only it were that simple.  

 

 

 

Bravo!

 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

4 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

Fire him I say ... Get rid of him KC, he'll never win you another Super Bowl ... They should trade Mahomes to the NFC or CFL as well.

CFL.  That will be the impetus to chase Chad Kelly out of the CFL, and bring him home to Buffalo, where he can rightfully take over QB1 duties.  (Family rite of succession, due to his royal pedigree...)

*
🤔🤨😉

There are at least a few bored board members saying "that's a good idea!"

[JohnNord]

16 hours ago, Blackbeard said:

I respect your opinion, but disagree to a point.

 

Most of your "gaffes" you speak of are hind sight/monday morning qb calls.  And you mention "blunder after blunder" .  Being a bit harsh maybe?

 

There are things, other than a head coach, which dictate how a season will go:  personnel, injuries, schedule, weather, how personnel actually performs, etc.  

 

Just my 2 cents.

You are correct.  What annoyed me is that we all could recognize some of the mistakes from McDermott - just as we could with Josh, the entire defense, Gabe, Cook etc.

 

Yet, everyone just wanted McDermott using the catch all phrase “because he’s the head coach.”  It wasn’t nuanced realistic criticism either - it got the point where people were saying McDermott was “Dick Jauron with Josh Allen at QB.”
 

In the end, he has his flaws like all NFL coaches do.  Is he good enough to win a Super Bowl?  That has yet to be seen.

 

But you really can’t say he isn’t a good coach in the NFL.   He’s proven that 

20 minutes ago, Billsflyer12 said:

There must be a lot of new posters here on the board or just blind McD loyalists.   Literally.  There has also been EXTENSIVE talk about other examples of coaches being replaced with much better resumes than McD.

 

 If anyone at all cares about a reasoned arguments, whether you agree or not, they are so easy to find on this board in tons of places.  My guess is at this point neither side is changing each others mind.  The reality is the only person whose opinion matters on this topic is Terry, and I don’t get the sense that there is anything McD can do that ever gets him to replace him.

“The reasons so many think the chances the McD ever wins a Super Bowl with the Bills are extremely low have been posted with lots of data, statistics and reasons like maybe 100 times.”

 

If this is so easy to find, show me the data.  And don’t use the 33rd team article about QB/Coach combos which doesn’t speak directly to any individual coach.  
 

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

17 hours ago, Patrick Fitzryan said:

When Reid was HC in Philly, he made a lot of the same mistakes that McDermott makes now and was fired despite having a more impressive resume.

He’s makin all the same mistakes on the chiefs but mahomes/Kelce have been able to cover it up up until this point so no one has cared 

 

a hall of fame wr left and they thought they could get by with mediocre talent at that position…the team pretty quickly started to go downhill until ultimately going 4-12 the year Reid was fired…hopefully that will sound familiar next year 😂. Eagles had a bit of a comeback when desean Jackson hit the scene but it was pretty short lived

Edited December 27, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[JohnNord]

1 hour ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Here is the problem, Philly canned Reid despite 4 NFCC appearances and 1 of those a superbowl, because they knew they weren't going to win one with him.  They were right.  

 

Many of us feel the same about McDermott. 

I lived in the Philly/NJ area when this decision was made.  There was a lot of talk that Andy “couldn’t win the big game” in the background and that followed him to KC until recently, but this is not why they fired him.

 

In 2011, Andy finished 8-8 despite winning the division the previous years and building superstars on offense like Shady, Desean Jackson, Jeremy Machlin etc.   So he got a second chance in 2012 ans ended up going 4-12.  One of the worst teams in the NFL. 

 

8-8 and 4-12 is what got Andy fired.  It wasn’t the belief that he couldn’t win them a Super Bowl.   Philly felt that Reid’s time had run its course and that they needed a change.

[JohnNord]

1 hour ago, BearNorth said:

Philly canned Pederson within 3 years of WINNING a Superbowl with a backup QB.

His record was 9-7, 9-7, 4-11-1

 

That last season was an absolute train wreck that saw him embarrass Philly by deliberately tanking.  
 

People want to say that Marty or Marvin Lewis are comparable…they are not.  McDermott has more post season success than both combined.  
 

I’ve always felt John Fox was the best comp.  He took over a Josh McDaniels dumpster fire and got the team to 8-8 with Tim Tebow and actually won a playoff game.

 

He then won 13, 13, and 12 games.  Of course that also included a SB appearance where his team was blown out by a lesser opponent.   He was fired shortly after.  
 

With Peyton Manning on his last legs, Johnny Elway hired his best friend and OC to run the team as well as his former head coach Wade Phillips to run the defense.  
 

Elway relied on experienced coaches he knew well and previously worked with.  Also in the case of Kubiak, a coach already on staff.  
 

He didn’t hire the “Ben Johnson’s” of the world to start over.  

[SoTier]

17 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Yeah, the fans ran his ass off and were thrilled when he left, he could "never win the big game" bs.

 

And Chip Kelly proved once again that listening to the fans is such a smart move.    // sarcasm off

 

17 hours ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

Reid chose to move on from a QB who led his team to the playoffs, while throwing for over 4000 yards, 26 TDs and 5 INTs, in favor of Mahomes.

 

McDermott opted to start Nathan Peterman over Josh Allen.  Maybe McDermott thought that the second start for Peterman would be a charm?

 

Game management has been an adventure with McDermott, and I don't think that ownership particularly cares.  Question is, will McDermott learn from his mistakes?  He's shown a propensity for stubbornness, to the detriment of the team.

 

Revisionist history.  McDermott didn't have much choice.  Allen was definitely not ready to start an NFL game at the start of his rookie season.   He wasn't ready to play QB in the NFL when he first replaced Peterman as a rookie.  He didn't know what he was doing.  After he was injured and forced to sit for a few games, he came back and played much better, but not particularly great.  His leadership and running ability were his biggest assets.  As somebody else posted, Allen didn't emerge as a quality NFL QB wasn't until part way through his third season (2020).

 

1 hour ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Here is the problem, Philly canned Reid despite 4 NFCC appearances and 1 of those a superbowl, because they knew they weren't going to win one with him.  They were right.  

 

Many of us feel the same about McDermott. 

 

More revisionist history.   The Philly FO (Lurie and Roseman) fired Andy Reid and hired Chip Kelly because Reid went 4-12 in 2012 after going 8-8 in 2011 and making the playoffs in 2008-2010.   They canned  Kelly with one game remaining in his third season after the Eagles went 6-9 as HC.

[longtimebillsfan]

15 hours ago, SoMAn said:

If Rembrandt takes a knee before finishing the sistern chapel or forgot the wiener on the statue of David they would fire his arse!  😜

That was Michelangelo Buonarroti several centuries before Rembrandt.

[Einstein]

18 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

Reid's earned patience with his trophies. 

 

Though I agree we should keep McD, this part kinda makes the point of the thread moot, in my opinion.

 

Winning multiple Super Bowls buys you patience.

 

[longtimebillsfan]

2 hours ago, Dopey said:

“Oh, Josh, you’re my hero” 🤮 🤮

This is the same guy who threw a pick in 9 consecutive games this season. Not to mention the fumbles. 
#17 has been bailed out by Mcd’s defense so many times it’s unreal. And not just this season. Josh is a turnover machine. A lot of Josh’s late game comebacks are due to his turnovers earlier in games. Some of you still sniffing Josh’s jock. Stop, it’ll make you dopey. 

Look at Jim Kelly's career interceptions.  Qbs that air it out tend to through picks.  The good out weighs the bad.

[Bermuda Triangle]

16 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Revisionist history.  McDermott didn't have much choice.  Allen was definitely not ready to start an NFL game at the start of his rookie season.   He wasn't ready to play QB in the NFL when he first replaced Peterman as a rookie.  He didn't know what he was doing.  After he was injured and forced to sit for a few games, he came back and played much better, but not particularly great.  His leadership and running ability were his biggest assets.  As somebody else posted, Allen didn't emerge as a quality NFL QB wasn't until part way through his third season (2020).

 

McDermott did have a choice - he could have started someone other than one of the worst NFL QBs in recent memory, in Nathan Peterman.  After the Peterman debacle in 2017, why did McDermott go back to Peterman again?  Another example of McDermott's stubbornness.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

He’s also got a 63.1 adjusted QB rating, which is 7th best in the NFL but suggests he’s been above average this year.

 

For those wondering, 70+ is elite and only 3 QBs are in that category

 

Purdy (71.7)

Allen (71.6)

Prescott (71.5)

[Westside]

18 hours ago, BBFL said:

Crazies? Bit of a reach there bud… Most fans who wanted McD gone was during the team spiraling out of control and being sub .500 as a result of coaching errors and issues. Don’t think that is being crazy when you have a top 3 QB in the league with repeated failures in the playoffs to boot. 

We haven’t been sub .500 this year. Don’t make up stuff to prove your point.

[Don Otreply]

16 hours ago, chongli said:

My interest piqued when I read the title, thinking the Chiefs would be stupid to get rid of Reid.

 

But anyway, there is talk of bringing back Bienemy to be the OC.

Why would Bienemy want to step backwards, is he being fired by the Commanders?  ( the place where dreams go to die) 

[Buffalo03]

For what? They hate success?

[BBFL]

32 minutes ago, Westside said:

We haven’t been sub .500 this year. Don’t make up stuff to prove your point.

You’re right, I thought we were 4-5 after Denver. Forgot about the Washington blowout. Either way, that isn’t of use to prove my point as the team was still in a slump which is when the head rolling wanted to be done; which partly it was with Dorsey. Calling people crazy during and underwhelming start is completely outlandish, there was some merit to be had for the calling of it. 
 

🤷‍♂️
 

Edited December 27, 2023 by BBFL

[chongli]

45 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Why would Bienemy want to step backwards, is he being fired by the Commanders?  ( the place where dreams go to die) 

 

Who knows...Washington is a sh*t show. But if Rivera is fired, KC at that point, if they want him, might be Bienemy's only choice.

[Don Otreply]

5 minutes ago, chongli said:

 

Who knows...Washington is a sh*t show. But if Rivera is fired, KC at that point, if they want him, might be Bienemy's only choice.

The NFL is full of retread coaches with worse track records than Bienemy, after all he has a couple SB rings as an OC ish…, 

[SoMAn]

1 hour ago, longtimebillsfan said:

That was Michelangelo Buonarroti several centuries before Rembrandt.

Uhh, yeah, no kidding. It also wasn’t called the ‘sistern’ chapel.  It’s humor. 
Obviously, Rembrandt was busy with Whistlers Miother.  Or that guy from Depew, Jackson Polack. 
 

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, section122 said:

 

After he went 4-11-1 and refused to fire his oc.  That's a far cry from anything McD has done.

 

Everytime this comes up I ask which year did the Bills lose in the playoffs with the better team? There isn't one.

 

Allen is one of the top 3 qbs in the league.  The Bills have only lost to the other 2 top guys.

 

At least 1 guy in the thread is being honest.  He hasnt moved past 13 seconds.  I feel everyone who wants him fired is in the same boat.

13 seconds is a pretty big boat...almost an ark.

[FilthyBeast]

They've won like 10 straight division titles and still pretty much a lock for division/playoffs. And honestly I wouldn't bury them just yet anyway because I still think that defense is truly elite and will be one of best ever in NFL history when it's all said and done, which is why they can still beat anybody and win another SB this year.

 

But as much as a lot of us hate the Chiefs, you know that Brett Veach is going to rectify the situation in the offseason and bring in an elite #1 WR no matter what happens and how their season ends this year.

[Bill Grundy]

20 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

When Reid was fired from Philly, he didn't have a Allen/Mahomes elite qb.  McDermott has had Josh for 7 years and still struggles to get beyond the divisional round. I admire and appreciate the team rallying around McD after the Dunne piece.  But you can't just assume his game management issues will just magically disappear.  We should've won at least 1 championship with Josh.  

Don Shula never won a superbowl with Dan Marino.

 

Both were generational talents in their roles.

 

Winning is never guaranteed. 

[hondo in seattle]

2 hours ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

McDermott did have a choice - he could have started someone other than one of the worst NFL QBs in recent memory, in Nathan Peterman.  After the Peterman debacle in 2017, why did McDermott go back to Peterman again?  Another example of McDermott's stubbornness.

 

I don't think it was about Nathan Peterman.  I think it was about McDermott's philosophy about the right way to develop a young QB.

 

For those who are old enough to remember, back in 1970 we drafted a good college QB named Dennis Shaw and started him right away.  But it was a crap team with a crap offensive line.   He was sacked something like 40 times during his rookie year and his career sputtered thereafter.  Some people said it was because we threw him to the wolves and destroyed his confidence and poise instead of developing him patiently and methodically.  

 

I don't think McD wasn't asking who was better: Peterman or Allen.  I think he was asking what's the best way to develop this raw but talented rookie.  

 

2 minutes ago, Bill Grundy said:

Don Shula never won a superbowl with Dan Marino.

 

Both were generational talents in their roles.

 

Winning is never guaranteed. 

 

Great point.

 

Edited December 27, 2023 by hondo in seattle

[HappyDays]

4 hours ago, section122 said:

Everytime this comes up I ask which year did the Bills lose in the playoffs with the better team? There isn't one.

 

So to be clear, your defense of McDermott is that he can't win a Super Bowl unless he is gifted the best roster in the NFL to go along with an elite QB? Interestingly I share the same opinion as you but take away the opposite conclusion.

 

Either way I'm tabling this discussion until after the season ends. A competitive AFCCG appearance should be the expected floor this year. Poor coaching has already lost us one game against a championship caliber opponent in the past month. If it happens again in the playoffs we will just have to accept that that is who McDermott is.

[Comebackkid]

4 hours ago, Billsflyer12 said:

There must be a lot of new posters here on the board or just blind McD loyalists.  The reasons so many think the chances the McD ever wins a Super Bowl with the Bills are extremely low have been posted with lots of data, statistics and reasons like maybe 100 times.  Literally.  There has also been EXTENSIVE talk about other examples of coaches being replaced with much better resumes than McD.

 

 If anyone at all cares about a reasoned arguments, whether you agree or not, they are so easy to find on this board in tons of places.  My guess is at this point neither side is changing each others mind.  The reality is the only person whose opinion matters on this topic is Terry, and I don’t get the sense that there is anything McD can do that ever gets him to replace him.

considering rex ryan was terry's other choice, do we really want to gamble on him making a 3rd coaching decision?  

[90sBills]

4 hours ago, frostbitmic said:

Fire him I say ... Get rid of him KC, he'll never win you another Super Bowl ... They should trade Mahomes to the NFC or CFL as well.

FYI…this thread is about McD. Bait and switch title. 

[buffaloboyinATL]

No way he gets fired.  But they will add a coach to be the disciplinarian, to replace what they are missing without Bienemy.  They are clearly missing him, not as a play caller, but as an authority figure.  

[HardyBoy]

21 hours ago, BBFL said:

Crazies? Bit of a reach there bud… Most fans who wanted McD gone was during the team spiraling out of control and being sub .500 as a result of coaching errors and issues. Don’t think that is being crazy when you have a top 3 QB in the league with repeated failures in the playoffs to boot. 

 

And those people were the most annoying entitled people I've ever met and I didn't realize the bills fanbase is suddenly brimming with that type of negativity and scapegoating... it was gross, it made for a very unenjoyable stretch...bunch of whiners 

[longtimebillsfan]

2 hours ago, SoMAn said:

Uhh, yeah, no kidding. It also wasn’t called the ‘sistern’ chapel.  It’s humor. 
Obviously, Rembrandt was busy with Whistlers Miother.  Or that guy from Depew, Jackson Polack. 
 

Humor is very subjective.

 

It was an attempt at humor.

[Reks Ryan]

22 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

As it stands McD is one of 3 coaches in the Super Bowl era who has a .600 or better regular season record and no conference championship. He is 4-5 in the playoffs. 4-4 with Allen. Reid is 11-3 with 3 AFC Championships and two Super Bowls with Mahomes. One is trending toward Marty and the other is trending toward football immortality. Comparing the two is just lazy to be honest. Unless you want to compare Philadelphia Andy Reid, but even then he got an NFC championship in his 6th season. 

You mention Marty below, but who is the 3rd coach w .600+ record in the regular season?

 

I thought it might be Chuck Knox who coached Rams, Bills, Seahawks, & Rams again.  But I looked it up and he finished @ .558 for his careeer.  He did coach teams to 7 playoff wins, overall 7 - 11 in postseason and never made a SB run.   Knox was actually right  @ .600 winning % until he returned to the Rams from 1992 - 1994 and went 15 - 33 to bring his % down before he retired.   Knox has 193 total wins, which is #11 all time

[Mikie2times]

Just now, Reks Ryan said:

You mention Marty below, but who is the 3rd coach w .600+ record in the regular season?

 

I thought it might be Chuck Knox who coached Rams, Bills, Seahawks, & Rams again.  But I looked it up and he finished @ .558 for his careeer.  He did coach teams to 7 playoff wins, overall 7 - 11 in postseason and never made a SB run.   Knox was actually right  @ .600 winning % until he returned to the Rams from 1992 - 1994 and went 15 - 33 to bring his % down before he retired.   Knox has 193 total wins, which is #11 all time

Matt LaFleur and Marty are the two others. 

[Doc Brown]

7 hours ago, RobbRiddick said:

This is the kind of thinking that can screw you. With the Bills  in particular,  with all those years of zero playoff appearances,  it's easy to look back on what we were before McDermott and say we're better sticking where we are, but if that leads to a Marvin Lewis situation what is it really achieving? 

Marvin Lewis never won a playoff game.  That's a major difference.  Tony Dungy with Peyton Manning is the more apt comparison.  Dungy had mixed playoff success (3-4) and made the playoffs each year with Manning for the first four.  It took him until his 5th year there to win the Super Bowl though and get past the Pats.  We're in the middle of year four with Josh as an elite QB under McDermott where are playoff record is 4-3 since Josh became Josh.  

[Toledo Bill]

23 hours ago, Blackbeard said:

If you get a team that makes playoffs yearly, you don't change a lot at coaching imo.

 

You crazies that think ousting McDermott will get us a Lombardi are bonkers.  We should be ECSTATIC to have such a coach here.  Especially given the fact coaches aren't just around in mass quantities.   Good ones that is.

 

 

If Kansas City didn’t have that penalty and we lost due to that crazy play… people would be singing a different tune.

[Mikie2times]

2 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Marvin Lewis never won a playoff game.  That's a major difference.  Tony Dungy with Peyton Manning is the more apt comparison.  Dungy had mixed playoff success (3-4) and made the playoffs each year with Manning for the first four.  It took him until his 5th year there to win the Super Bowl though and get past the Pats.  We're in the middle of year four with Josh as an elite QB under McDermott where are playoff record is 4-3 since Josh became Josh.  

I think Dungy is a very accurate comparison. Always have. Even focuses on a similar defensive concept.  Ironically, Caldwell, a JAG HC went to a SB the first year he was gone. Then the same thing in Tampa. Nobody would say Dungy wasn't a good coach but he captures the argumenty perfectly. How did those Colts only manage one Super Bowl? Which we can get into. Manning in the playoffs, the Patriots, etc. But I would say Allen and McD actually have a more favorable landscape. Brady and the Patriots were more daunting than Mahomes and KC. Thinking about Dungy just makes me want McD out even more. He's just enough, just like Dungy always was. Just enough is probably more dangerous than bad. Just enough to lose a lot of time. 

[Mikie2times]

10 minutes ago, Toledo Bill said:

If Kansas City didn’t have that penalty and we lost due to that crazy play… people would be singing a different tune.

We entered the season with clear goals and clear concerns. In the category of key goals was an AFC Championship and perhaps more. Playoffs were assumed and nearly laughed at when people said that could be at risk. Key concerns was winning close games. Better game management. Better defensive performance in late games and as a whole. 

 

The Taylor Dunne piece and Dorsey firing changed everything. Now a three game win streak in the regular season and a possible playoff birth has people talking about how an early playoff exit isn't even a failure. How we have overcome adversity to get here. Bla Bla Bla. We created the adversity in getting here. We have only added more questions to the key concerns. I don't understand how the goal posts have shifted this much. We have one of the best QB's on the planet, a pretty decent roster, and a horrible conference to work with and our base is happy with a wild card. 

 

We will see how this goes. If it's anything like the past I will probably take a break from posting if the same people want to justify it.