st pete gogolak Posted December 12, 2023 Share Posted December 12, 2023 Like most of the posters here, I hate, hate, HATE the WR screen pass. Especially running it over and over against a D playing man press (KC). When was the last time we ran a “traditional” screen (OL leaks out after pretending to pass block, RB leaks out and has a couple of blockers in front of him when he gets the ball)? Cincinnati ran a couple of nice screens against the Colts. Is it because our OL isn’t athletic? I thought Morse and Brown were athletic enough to get out on in front on a screen. (Shout out to Brown, whose play seems to be much improved). One more rant. Just like Fran Stalinovskovichdavidovitshky is the deadliest woman in the world with a dodgeball, Josh Allen is the deadliest QB in the NFL rolling to his right. Why not have a couple of designed rollouts? Worst that happens is a throw OB if nobody’s open. 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnNord Posted December 12, 2023 Share Posted December 12, 2023 Under Brady the Bills ran a few RB at TE leak patterns. I would assume a “real” screen is coming up. As far why the never run them, I never understood. Could it be that Josh isn’t comfortable? This isn’t a new issue. We asked the same question under Daboll and later Dorsey. I seem to remember that back in 2018, Josh taking off and getting the ball short to a Chris Ivory was one of their big plays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted December 12, 2023 Share Posted December 12, 2023 5 minutes ago, st pete gogolak said: Like most of the posters here, I hate, hate, HATE the WR screen pass. Especially running it over and over against a D playing man press (KC). When was the last time we ran a “traditional” screen (OL leaks out after pretending to pass block, RB leaks out and has a couple of blockers in front of him when he gets the ball)? Cincinnati ran a couple of nice screens against the Colts. Is it because our OL isn’t athletic? I thought Morse and Brown were athletic enough to get out on in front on a screen. (Shout out to Brown, whose play seems to be much improved). One more rant. Just like Fran Stalinovskovichdavidovitshky is the deadliest woman in the world with a dodgeball, Josh Allen is the deadliest QB in the NFL rolling to his right. Why not have a couple of designed rollouts? Worst that happens is a throw OB if nobody’s open. Probably CJ Spiller. The way Thurman used to run them, it was one of the prettiest plays in the game. I would think we would want to have some more plays that take advantage of how aggressive DL are. Screens, reverses etc. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoTom Posted December 12, 2023 Share Posted December 12, 2023 I don't think the Bills have run a good screen game since the Kelly era. At the same time, they also can't seem to defend against it. 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generic_Bills_Fan Posted December 12, 2023 Share Posted December 12, 2023 I didn’t hate it in the chiefs game as much as other games…the chiefs were absolutely obliterating the interior of our OL in the second half feels like a waste of a play when a lot of other stuff is working though. Diggs has dropped a few in the last couple games that were set up pretty well to be fair to the play caller at the time whether it was Brady or Dorsey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted December 12, 2023 Share Posted December 12, 2023 With Cook's hands and the way he moves in space they need to dial some up ASAP. Our WR screens are so poorly disguised that a pick-6 is a more likely outcome than us getting 10 yards. That's not hyperbole, they are heart-attack inducing. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted December 12, 2023 Share Posted December 12, 2023 2 minutes ago, WhoTom said: I don't think the Bills have run a good screen game since the Kelly era. At the same time, they also can't seem to defend against it. Chan Gailey. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklabel Posted December 12, 2023 Share Posted December 12, 2023 1 minute ago, QCity said: With Cook's hands and the way he moves in space they need to dial some up ASAP. Our WR screens are so poorly disguised that a pick-6 is a more likely outcome than us getting 10 yards. That's not hyperbole, they are heart-attack inducing. Ty Johnson seems like he'd do pretty well on screens too. Guy gets the ball and doesn't waste a step getting vertical. 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnNord Posted December 12, 2023 Share Posted December 12, 2023 3 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said: I didn’t hate it in the chiefs game as much as other games…the chiefs were absolutely obliterating the interior of our OL in the second half feels like a waste of a play when a lot of other stuff is working though. Diggs has dropped a few in the last couple games that were set up pretty well to be fair to the play caller at the time whether it was Brady or Dorsey There was intent behind the WR versus KC. Brady was setting the defense for a big shot to Gabe downfield late in the game. He was WIDE open but Josh rushed a bit and missed him electing to throw a 50/50 ball to Kincaid. Plus as someone mentioned, Diggs dropped a few screens, the last one which could’ve really hurt the team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Things Posted December 12, 2023 Share Posted December 12, 2023 Can Gaily era Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoTom Posted December 12, 2023 Share Posted December 12, 2023 7 minutes ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said: Chan Gailey. Fitz to Spiller? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El_diablo Posted December 12, 2023 Share Posted December 12, 2023 When we had the K-gun. We would fake a screen in one direction and flip the screen pass to the other side. Quite successful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted December 12, 2023 Share Posted December 12, 2023 Pretty sure we ran one to Cook last weekend. Pressure slid through, blocking was all setup, and Cook took it for an 8 yard gain. 6:18 remaining in the second half, right before the interception. It did not look like a dump off to me but I could be mistaken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted December 12, 2023 Share Posted December 12, 2023 I agree with this because Pete Gogalak was a great kicker 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Romes Posted December 12, 2023 Share Posted December 12, 2023 I heard it explained that screens work better when you have an immobile pocket passer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Junction Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 5 minutes ago, Charles Romes said: I heard it explained that screens work better when you have an immobile pocket passer This^^^. Screens often get blown up when there’s a spy. They’re also more difficult against zone coverages where there’s a designated flat defender. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEATHER DOT COM Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 There was a "real" screen pass in the 4th quarter against the Chiefs on Sunday to Cook. Got 7 or 8 yards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundybout Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 We did a couple good ones with John Brown. It was that audible, Gold Rocket or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 When's the last time they ran a draw? Or a misdirection with the RB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 I’d settle for the goal line play where the TE pretends to block and slips out the backside to be standing all alone in the end zone. I’ve been waiting FIFTY years for the Bills to run that play instead of some lame fade pattern to the back pylon. Fingers crossed that this is the week. 🤞🏽 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Boo Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 2 hours ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said: Chan Gailey. Used to love that inside TE screen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 7 hours ago, WhoTom said: Fitz to Spiller? And Fred Jackson, yeah. Gailey seemed to have a strong screen game he used a lot wherever he went. I remember him doing it with Myles Gaskin in Miami and thinking yeah this is a Chan Gailey offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Darragh Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 10 hours ago, st pete gogolak said: Josh Allen is the deadliest QB in the NFL rolling to his right. Why not have a couple of designed rollouts? Worst that happens is a throw OB if nobody’s open. Did you see the KC game? Josh was rolling to his right and I said to myself "Josh is the deadliest QB rolling to his right. Worst that happens is a throw OB." Then he threw a horrible pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 10 hours ago, WhoTom said: I don't think the Bills have run a good screen game since the Kelly era. At the same time, they also can't seem to defend against it. They did under Chan. It was 80% of their offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donuts and Doritos Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 Sunday. It wasn't successful. But we ran it. We excell at the real Unsuccessful screen passes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 It's been a while for a RB. Maybe the Breida TD against the Saints on Thanksgiving a couple years back. It's tough with a mobile QB but Brady should look into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86poker Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 Speaking of screens. What's up with Diggs dropping bubble screens 2 weeks in a row? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 (edited) 15 hours ago, st pete gogolak said: Like most of the posters here, I hate, hate, HATE the WR screen pass. Especially running it over and over against a D playing man press (KC). When was the last time we ran a “traditional” screen (OL leaks out after pretending to pass block, RB leaks out and has a couple of blockers in front of him when he gets the ball)? Cincinnati ran a couple of nice screens against the Colts. Is it because our OL isn’t athletic? I thought Morse and Brown were athletic enough to get out on in front on a screen. (Shout out to Brown, whose play seems to be much improved). One more rant. Just like Fran Stalinovskovichdavidovitshky is the deadliest woman in the world with a dodgeball, Josh Allen is the deadliest QB in the NFL rolling to his right. Why not have a couple of designed rollouts? Worst that happens is a throw OB if nobody’s open. They literally just ran one with Cook early in the game against the Chiefs. He got 12-15 yards on it. Edited December 13, 2023 by Big Turk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollars 2 donuts Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 Kenneth Davis in The Comeback Game. Honestly, had a couple and one may have gone for about 30, if memory serves. I was there.* (* BS you weren't there!**) (** I have the best excuse that I was there and stayed. I was in a box and had almost limitless food. You couldn't get me to leave even if my parents (RIP) were having sex at the 50 yard line.***) (*** They didn't. That is is just referenced for veracity purposes and suggesting that they did do it there is off the table.****) (**** They might have done it on a table before. I was not there every time. I was just the result of once.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 when Chan Gailey was coach. I'm tired of the quick sideline pass to WRs. Every team does it and it rarely works. OCs just copy what everyone else does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPL Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 I thought the WR screens were actually working pretty well in the first half against KC... am I remembering this wrong? I thought they were picking up 4-7 yards per play early in the game before KC adjusted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah John Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 (edited) 15 hours ago, SoCal Deek said: I’d settle for the goal line play where the TE pretends to block and slips out the backside to be standing all alone in the end zone. I’ve been waiting FIFTY years for the Bills to run that play instead of some lame fade pattern to the back pylon. Fingers crossed that this is the week. 🤞🏽 Seems to me DK1 has caught a few of those the past couple of years. And DK2 is an even better receiver. 2 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said: Kenneth Davis in The Comeback Game. Honestly, had a couple and one may have gone for about 30, if memory serves. I was there.* (* BS you weren't there!**) (** I have the best excuse that I was there and stayed. I was in a box and had almost limitless food. You couldn't get me to leave even if my parents (RIP) were having sex at the 50 yard line.***) (*** They didn't. That is is just referenced for veracity purposes and suggesting that they did do it there is off the table.****) (**** They might have done it on a table before. I was not there every time. I was just the result of once.) Sounds like some illegal formations and motions on the 50, and definitely holding. Maybe even a naked bootleg if your Mom changed her mind. But who knows, if the Bills start losing a lot, maybe that'll bring the fans back. Edited December 13, 2023 by Utah John 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st pete gogolak Posted December 13, 2023 Author Share Posted December 13, 2023 12 hours ago, Dan Darragh said: Did you see the KC game? Josh was rolling to his right and I said to myself "Josh is the deadliest QB rolling to his right. Worst that happens is a throw OB." Then he threw a horrible pick. That wasn’t a designed rollout. He was flushed out of the pocket and threw against the grain. You wouldn’t do that on a designed rollout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rigotz Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 (edited) Can we please call this what it is? It's simply an "RB Slip Screen." Here's how it's designed: https://youthfootballonline.com/running-back-screen-pass-play-rb-slip-screen/ To the question of "are our linemen not athletic enough?" ... the left side of the line is tailor made for slip screens. Dawkins has shown his mobility with the tackle wrap play. Morse's lateral mobility is arguably the best in the game for Centers, and McGovern has a RAS score of 9.74/10 (relative athleticism to size). On the right side, Brown would be perfect, but CyBo's big weakness is lateral mobility, so we wouldn't want to test him "olaying" his defender and sprinting lateral wide. Now, the important question of why we don't do it often... considering we have a good pass catching HB and athletic o-line on the left side. It's one of 2 reasons: 1) We're not getting blitzed by the OLB or MLB. RB Slip screens are blitz beaters. They work best when the OLB attacks because the line lets them run free alongside the DE/DT, which gives you "numbers" after your RB and OL escape the box. An obvious reason of why we don't see the OLB/MLB blitz often is linebackers are spying Josh or playing zone to defend the QB scramble. If they stay in the box and don't blitz, your slip screen will probably be blown up unless someone on D attacks the wrong gap. 2) We're just not good at it. Whether it's Josh's hand size making the short passes harder, or WR not being able to sustain their blocks, or linemen not communicating well enough, we're just not good at it. As some posters have mentioned, these issues pre-date Cook and most of our O-Line, so maybe it's a Josh thing? Either way, it's almost definitely some combination of 1, 2, or both. Edited December 13, 2023 by Rigotz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillyG Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 23 hours ago, st pete gogolak said: Like most of the posters here, I hate, hate, HATE the WR screen pass. Especially running it over and over against a D playing man press (KC). When was the last time we ran a “traditional” screen (OL leaks out after pretending to pass block, RB leaks out and has a couple of blockers in front of him when he gets the ball)? Cincinnati ran a couple of nice screens against the Colts. Is it because our OL isn’t athletic? I thought Morse and Brown were athletic enough to get out on in front on a screen. (Shout out to Brown, whose play seems to be much improved). One more rant. Just like Fran Stalinovskovichdavidovitshky is the deadliest woman in the world with a dodgeball, Josh Allen is the deadliest QB in the NFL rolling to his right. Why not have a couple of designed rollouts? Worst that happens is a throw OB if nobody’s open. I agree and don't like those WR screens. However, I am curious to see if Brady is getting that established on film to work something off of it. Maybe something where they set up the WR screen and when the defense commits to crash it...one of the blockers leaks out upfield. Lots of variables can come off that if they get a defense to commit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 (edited) 23 hours ago, st pete gogolak said: One more rant. Just like Fran Stalinovskovichdavidovitshky is the deadliest woman in the world with a dodgeball, Josh Allen is the deadliest QB in the NFL rolling to his right. Why not have a couple of designed rollouts? Worst that happens is a throw OB if nobody’s open. I can see it now: 1st and 10, Shnowman reports as tackle eligible. Josh rolls right, ignores a wide open Davis, sees Diggs triple teamed. Throws across his body to a wide open Dawkins! 2nd down and 7, because Shnowman is built like a snowman. Edited December 13, 2023 by Tenhigh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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