When’s the Last Time We Ran a “Real” Screen Pass?

[st pete gogolak]

Like most of the posters here, I hate, hate, HATE the WR screen pass. Especially running it over and over against a D playing man press (KC).  When was the last time we ran a “traditional” screen (OL leaks out after pretending to pass block, RB leaks out and has a couple of blockers in front of him when he gets the ball)?  Cincinnati ran a couple of nice screens against the Colts.  Is it because our OL isn’t athletic?  I thought Morse and Brown were athletic enough to get out on in front on a screen. (Shout out to Brown, whose play seems to be much improved). 
 

One more rant.  Just like Fran Stalinovskovichdavidovitshky is the deadliest woman in the world with a dodgeball, Josh Allen is the deadliest QB in the NFL rolling to his right.  Why not have a couple of designed rollouts?  Worst that happens is a throw OB if nobody’s open.

[JohnNord]

Under Brady the Bills ran a few RB at TE leak patterns.  I would assume a “real” screen is coming up.

 

As far why the never run them, I never understood.  Could it be that Josh isn’t comfortable?

 

This isn’t a new issue.  We asked the same question under Daboll and later Dorsey.

 

I seem to remember that back in 2018, Josh taking off and getting the ball short to a Chris Ivory was one of their big plays

[Mikie2times]

5 minutes ago, st pete gogolak said:

Like most of the posters here, I hate, hate, HATE the WR screen pass. Especially running it over and over against a D playing man press (KC).  When was the last time we ran a “traditional” screen (OL leaks out after pretending to pass block, RB leaks out and has a couple of blockers in front of him when he gets the ball)?  Cincinnati ran a couple of nice screens against the Colts.  Is it because our OL isn’t athletic?  I thought Morse and Brown were athletic enough to get out on in front on a screen. (Shout out to Brown, whose play seems to be much improved). 
 

One more rant.  Just like Fran Stalinovskovichdavidovitshky is the deadliest woman in the world with a dodgeball, Josh Allen is the deadliest QB in the NFL rolling to his right.  Why not have a couple of designed rollouts?  Worst that happens is a throw OB if nobody’s open.

Probably CJ Spiller.  The way Thurman used to run them, it was one of the prettiest plays in the game. I would think we would want to have some more plays that take advantage of how aggressive DL are. Screens, reverses etc. 

[WhoTom]

I don't think the Bills have run a good screen game since the Kelly era. At the same time, they also can't seem to defend against it.

 

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

I didn’t hate it in the chiefs game as much as other games…the chiefs were absolutely obliterating the interior of our OL in the second half 

 

feels like a waste of a play when a lot of other stuff is working though.  Diggs has dropped a few in the last couple games that were set up pretty well to be fair to the play caller at the time whether it was Brady or Dorsey 

[QCity]

With Cook's hands and the way he moves in space they need to dial some up ASAP.

 

Our WR screens are so poorly disguised that a pick-6 is a more likely outcome than us getting 10 yards. That's not hyperbole, they are heart-attack inducing.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

2 minutes ago, WhoTom said:

I don't think the Bills have run a good screen game since the Kelly era. At the same time, they also can't seem to defend against it.

 

 

Chan Gailey.

[blacklabel]

1 minute ago, QCity said:

With Cook's hands and the way he moves in space they need to dial some up ASAP.

 

Our WR screens are so poorly disguised that a pick-6 is a more likely outcome than us getting 10 yards. That's not hyperbole, they are heart-attack inducing.

 

Ty Johnson seems like he'd do pretty well on screens too. Guy gets the ball and doesn't waste a step getting vertical. 

[JohnNord]

3 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I didn’t hate it in the chiefs game as much as other games…the chiefs were absolutely obliterating the interior of our OL in the second half 

 

feels like a waste of a play when a lot of other stuff is working though.  Diggs has dropped a few in the last couple games that were set up pretty well to be fair to the play caller at the time whether it was Brady or Dorsey 

There was intent behind the WR versus KC.  Brady was setting the defense for a big shot to Gabe downfield late in the game.  He was WIDE open but Josh rushed a bit and missed him electing to throw a 50/50 ball to Kincaid.  
 

Plus as someone mentioned, Diggs dropped a few screens, the last one which could’ve really hurt the team

[Bad Things]

Can Gaily era

[WhoTom]

7 minutes ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said:

Chan Gailey.

 

Fitz to Spiller?

[El_diablo]

When we had the K-gun.  We would fake a screen in one direction and flip the screen pass to the other side.  Quite successful.

[Jauronimo]

Pretty sure we ran one to Cook last weekend.  Pressure slid through, blocking was all setup, and Cook took it for an 8 yard gain.  6:18 remaining in the second half, right before the interception.  It did not look like a dump off to me but I could be mistaken.

[HOUSE]

I agree with this because Pete Gogalak was a great kicker

[Charles Romes]

I heard it explained that screens work better when you have an immobile pocket passer 

[Buffalo Junction]

5 minutes ago, Charles Romes said:

I heard it explained that screens work better when you have an immobile pocket passer 

This^^^. Screens often get blown up when there’s a spy. They’re also more difficult against zone coverages where there’s a designated flat defender. 

[WEATHER DOT COM]

There was a "real" screen pass in the 4th quarter against the Chiefs on Sunday to Cook. Got 7 or 8 yards

[Roundybout]

We did a couple good ones with John Brown. It was that audible, Gold Rocket or something. 

[Solomon Grundy]

When's the last time they ran a draw? Or a misdirection with the RB?

[SoCal Deek]

I’d settle for the goal line play where the TE pretends to block and slips out the backside to be standing all alone in the end zone. I’ve been waiting FIFTY years for the Bills to run that play instead of some lame fade pattern to the back pylon. Fingers crossed that this is the week. 🤞🏽

[Chicken Boo]

2 hours ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said:

Chan Gailey.

 

Used to love that inside TE screen.  

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

7 hours ago, WhoTom said:

 

Fitz to Spiller?

And Fred Jackson, yeah. Gailey seemed to have a strong screen game he used a lot wherever he went. I remember him doing it with Myles Gaskin in Miami and thinking yeah this is a Chan Gailey offense.

[Dan Darragh]

10 hours ago, st pete gogolak said:

Josh Allen is the deadliest QB in the NFL rolling to his right.  Why not have a couple of designed rollouts?  Worst that happens is a throw OB if nobody’s open.

Did you see the KC game?  Josh was rolling to his right and I said to myself "Josh is the deadliest QB rolling to his right. Worst that happens is a throw OB."  Then he threw a horrible pick.

[GunnerBill]

10 hours ago, WhoTom said:

I don't think the Bills have run a good screen game since the Kelly era. At the same time, they also can't seem to defend against it.

 

 

 

They did under Chan. It was 80% of their offense.

[Donuts and Doritos]

Sunday.

 

It wasn't successful. But we ran it. We excell at the real Unsuccessful screen passes.

[Doc Brown]

It's been a while for a RB.  Maybe the Breida TD against the Saints on Thanksgiving a couple years back.  It's tough with a mobile QB but Brady should look into it.

[86poker]

Speaking of screens. 

 

What's up with Diggs dropping bubble screens 2 weeks in a row?

[Big Turk]

15 hours ago, st pete gogolak said:

Like most of the posters here, I hate, hate, HATE the WR screen pass. Especially running it over and over against a D playing man press (KC).  When was the last time we ran a “traditional” screen (OL leaks out after pretending to pass block, RB leaks out and has a couple of blockers in front of him when he gets the ball)?  Cincinnati ran a couple of nice screens against the Colts.  Is it because our OL isn’t athletic?  I thought Morse and Brown were athletic enough to get out on in front on a screen. (Shout out to Brown, whose play seems to be much improved). 
 

One more rant.  Just like Fran Stalinovskovichdavidovitshky is the deadliest woman in the world with a dodgeball, Josh Allen is the deadliest QB in the NFL rolling to his right.  Why not have a couple of designed rollouts?  Worst that happens is a throw OB if nobody’s open.

 

They literally just ran one with Cook early in the game against the Chiefs. He got 12-15 yards on it.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Big Turk

[dollars 2 donuts]

Kenneth Davis in The Comeback Game. 

 

Honestly, had a couple and one may have gone for about 30, if memory serves.  I was there.*

 

 

(* BS you weren't  there!**)

 

(** I have the best excuse that I was there and stayed.  I was in a box and had almost limitless food.  You couldn't get me to leave even if my parents (RIP) were having sex at the 50 yard line.***)

 

(*** They didn't.  That is is just referenced for veracity purposes and suggesting that they did do it there is off the table.****)

 

(**** They might have done it on a table before.  I was not there every time.  I was just the result of once.)

 

 

[nucci]

when Chan Gailey was coach. I'm tired of the quick sideline pass to WRs. Every team does it and it rarely works. OCs just copy what everyone else does. 

[MPL]

I thought the WR screens were actually working pretty well in the first half against KC... am I remembering this wrong? I thought they were picking up 4-7 yards per play early in the game before KC adjusted. 

[Utah John]

15 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’d settle for the goal line play where the TE pretends to block and slips out the backside to be standing all alone in the end zone. I’ve been waiting FIFTY years for the Bills to run that play instead of some lame fade pattern to the back pylon. Fingers crossed that this is the week. 🤞🏽

 

Seems to me DK1 has caught a few of those the past couple of years.  And DK2 is an even better receiver.

2 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

Kenneth Davis in The Comeback Game. 

 

Honestly, had a couple and one may have gone for about 30, if memory serves.  I was there.*

 

 

(* BS you weren't  there!**)

 

(** I have the best excuse that I was there and stayed.  I was in a box and had almost limitless food.  You couldn't get me to leave even if my parents (RIP) were having sex at the 50 yard line.***)

 

(*** They didn't.  That is is just referenced for veracity purposes and suggesting that they did do it there is off the table.****)

 

(**** They might have done it on a table before.  I was not there every time.  I was just the result of once.)

 

 

Sounds like some illegal formations and motions on the 50, and definitely holding.  Maybe even a naked bootleg if your Mom changed her mind.  But who knows, if the Bills start losing a lot, maybe that'll bring the fans back.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Utah John

[st pete gogolak]

12 hours ago, Dan Darragh said:

Did you see the KC game?  Josh was rolling to his right and I said to myself "Josh is the deadliest QB rolling to his right. Worst that happens is a throw OB."  Then he threw a horrible pick.

That wasn’t a designed rollout. He was flushed out of the pocket and threw against the grain.  You wouldn’t do that on a designed rollout.

[Rigotz]

Can we please call this what it is? It's simply an "RB Slip Screen."

 

Here's how it's designed:

https://youthfootballonline.com/running-back-screen-pass-play-rb-slip-screen/

 

To the question of "are our linemen not athletic enough?" ... the left side of the line is tailor made for slip screens. Dawkins has shown his mobility with the tackle wrap play. Morse's lateral mobility is arguably the best in the game for Centers, and McGovern has a RAS score of 9.74/10 (relative athleticism to size). On the right side, Brown would be perfect, but CyBo's big weakness is lateral mobility, so we wouldn't want to test him "olaying" his defender and sprinting lateral wide.

 

Now, the important question of why we don't do it often... considering we have a good pass catching HB and athletic o-line on the left side.

 

It's one of 2 reasons:

 

1) We're not getting blitzed by the OLB or MLB. RB Slip screens are blitz beaters. They work best when the OLB attacks because the line lets them run free alongside the DE/DT, which gives you "numbers" after your RB and OL escape the box. An obvious reason of why we don't see the OLB/MLB blitz often is linebackers are spying Josh or playing zone to defend the QB scramble. If they stay in the box and don't blitz, your slip screen will probably be blown up unless someone on D attacks the wrong gap.

 

2) We're just not good at it. Whether it's Josh's hand size making the short passes harder, or WR not being able to sustain their blocks, or linemen not communicating well enough, we're just not good at it. As some posters have mentioned, these issues pre-date Cook and most of our O-Line, so maybe it's a Josh thing?

 

Either way, it's almost definitely some combination of 1, 2, or both.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Rigotz

[BuffaloBillyG]

23 hours ago, st pete gogolak said:

Like most of the posters here, I hate, hate, HATE the WR screen pass. Especially running it over and over against a D playing man press (KC).  When was the last time we ran a “traditional” screen (OL leaks out after pretending to pass block, RB leaks out and has a couple of blockers in front of him when he gets the ball)?  Cincinnati ran a couple of nice screens against the Colts.  Is it because our OL isn’t athletic?  I thought Morse and Brown were athletic enough to get out on in front on a screen. (Shout out to Brown, whose play seems to be much improved). 
 

One more rant.  Just like Fran Stalinovskovichdavidovitshky is the deadliest woman in the world with a dodgeball, Josh Allen is the deadliest QB in the NFL rolling to his right.  Why not have a couple of designed rollouts?  Worst that happens is a throw OB if nobody’s open.

I agree and don't like those WR screens. However, I am curious to see if Brady is getting that established on film to work something off of it. 

 

Maybe something where they set up the WR screen and when the defense commits to crash it...one of the blockers leaks out upfield. Lots of variables can come off that if they get a defense to commit.

[Tenhigh]

23 hours ago, st pete gogolak said:

One more rant.  Just like Fran Stalinovskovichdavidovitshky is the deadliest woman in the world with a dodgeball, Josh Allen is the deadliest QB in the NFL rolling to his right.  Why not have a couple of designed rollouts?  Worst that happens is a throw OB if nobody’s open.

I can see it now:

1st and 10, Shnowman reports as tackle eligible. Josh rolls right, ignores a wide open Davis, sees Diggs triple teamed.

Throws across his body to a wide open Dawkins!

 

2nd down and 7, because Shnowman is built like a snowman.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Tenhigh