Bass’ and Martin’s Poor Performance

[VaMilBill]

I think at this point we can all agree that our ST performance has been mediocre across the board. It lost us the game against the Pats, Broncos and gave up a huge return today against the Chiefs. 
 

Contributing to that is our kicking games. Sam Martin is averaging 44 YPP which is ranked at 32. Not good. The amount of times he’s had short punts or just not a lot of hang time this year seems countless. 
 

Tyler Bass is also not Bass-O-Matic. He’s got a 80% kicking average which is ranked 29th in the league. He’s missed some important kicks and to me he has been making it look pretty difficult. He also doesn’t seem to have the leg and I think it’s pretty apparent based on McD not trusting him. The amount of times we’ve punted from the opponents 40 this year seems like it’s our new norm. It makes me envious seeing the eagles kicker kick a 59 yard kick to tie the game in the rain. Or the Dallas kicker nail a 60 yarder tonight.
 

I think Bass is having some mental issues and probably needs to be replaced next year. I have little faith in him if he is kicking with the game on the line. 

Edited December 12, 2023 by VaMilBill

[BB2004]

Bass made the one that mattered.  He misses that, our season is likely done.

[Zag20]

Not having him attempt a 62 yarder isn’t exactly an indicative of the staff’s confidence in him. That would be a top 10 all time Fg made. 

[ToGoGo]

Man some fans can’t comprehend the up and down cycles of life and football. 

[Doc]

Kicking at the 40 is a 57 yard FG.  That's a low percentage kick.

[Solomon Grundy]

13 minutes ago, VaMilBill said:

I think at this point we can all agree that our ST performance has been mediocre across the board. It lost us the game against the Jets, Broncos and gave up a huge return today against the Chiefs. 
 

Contributing to that is our kicking games. Sam Martin is averaging 44 YPP which is ranked at 32. Not good. The amount of times he’s had short punts or just not a lot of hang time this year seems countless. 
 

Tyler Bass is also not Bass-O-Matic. He’s got a 80% kicking average which is ranked 29th in the league. He’s missed some important kicks and to me he has been making it look pretty difficult. He also doesn’t seem to have the leg and I think it’s pretty apparent based on McD not trusting him. The amount of times we’ve punted from the opponents 40 this year seems like it’s our new norm. It makes me envious seeing the eagles kicker kick a 59 yard kick to tie the game in the rain. Or the Dallas kicker nail a 60 yarder tonight.
 

I think Bass is having some mental issues and probably needs to be replaced next year. I have little faith in him if he is kicking with the game on the line. 

I blame the placeholder 😎

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

They have to consider cutting Sam Martin before next week. 

 

He's punting from our 44 yard line, and it goes 40 yards (lands at the 16) with no hang time AND in the middle of the field. There was a 25 yard return. 

 

The average NFL punter is going to pin KC inside the 20 (likely inside the 10) when punting from there. Instead we netted 15 yards. 

 

He was a straight up disaster in the Broncos game. Multiple 40-45 yard punts with no hang time to the middle of the field that gave up big returns. There was so much else going on in that game that Martin's performance fell to the wayside.

 

T Bass has been bad as well, but I'm more willing to give him some time to figure it out. 

[Warcodered]

Bass didn't do anything bad today, unless you're counting the decision not to attempt a 60+ yard kick right before the half against him?

[Doc Brown]

Bass would be 84% (about league average) if Jalen Carter doesn't make a great play on the blocked field goal which shows you why you need a larger sample size when evaluating kickers. 

 

Sam Martin I'm way more concerned about going down the stretch.  

[chongli]

52 minutes ago, Doc said:

Kicking at the 40 is a 57 yard FG.  That's a low percentage kick.

 

Well...unless it's against us.

Edited December 11, 2023 by chongli

[Sherlock Holmes]

3 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Bass would be 84% (about league average) if Jalen Carter doesn't make a great play on the blocked field goal which shows you why you need a larger sample size when evaluating kickers. 

 

Sam Martin I'm way more concerned about going down the stretch.  

And we would've won

[Doc Brown]

1 minute ago, Warcodered said:

Bass didn't do anything bad today, unless you're counting the decision not to attempt a 60+ yard kick right before the half against him?

I didn't like that decision.  I'm guessing the percentage of getting 3 points from 62 yards is a lot better than a TD on a Hal Mary.  Bass has made plenty from 50 plus that would've likely been good from 62 before.  I know the kickers give the head coach a line of demarcation before the game but that would've been an appropriate time to ignore it. 

[Freddie's Dead]

26 minutes ago, VaMilBill said:

I think at this point we can all agree that our ST performance has been mediocre across the board. It lost us the game against the Jets, Broncos and gave up a huge return today against the Chiefs. 
 

Contributing to that is our kicking games. Sam Martin is averaging 44 YPP which is ranked at 32. Not good. The amount of times he’s had short punts or just not a lot of hang time this year seems countless. 
 

Tyler Bass is also not Bass-O-Matic. He’s got a 80% kicking average which is ranked 29th in the league. He’s missed some important kicks and to me he has been making it look pretty difficult. He also doesn’t seem to have the leg and I think it’s pretty apparent based on McD not trusting him. The amount of times we’ve punted from the opponents 40 this year seems like it’s our new norm. It makes me envious seeing the eagles kicker kick a 59 yard kick to tie the game in the rain. Or the Dallas kicker nail a 60 yarder tonight.
 

I think Bass is having some mental issues and probably needs to be replaced next year. I have little faith in him if he is kicking with the game on the line. 

 

Bass made both kicks tonight (and won the game tonight, BTW), and McDummy should have let him try the 62 yard FG at the half.  He made a couple 50+ yarders earlier this season where the ball hit halfway up the net!  I think McDummy has lost confidence in Bass, especially after the miss last week cost us the game.  But I think that this game gets Bass back on the "o-Matic" track.  Nothing like the game winning FG to boost the confidence.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Freddie's Dead

[Sherlock Holmes]

Since Von is still playing might as well swap Martin for Araiza since he didn’t do anything wrong

[GoBills808]

ST has been awful this year

 

[MJS]

Sam Martin has been terrible. We need a new punter next year.

 

Bass will get it right.

[LABILLBACKER]

25 minutes ago, Zag20 said:

Not having him attempt a 62 yarder isn’t exactly an indicative of the staff’s confidence in him. That would be a top 10 all time Fg made. 

There's going to come a time in the near future where we're going to need him to hit a 55 yarder.  Can he do it?  Is the leg strength still there?  I think Martin is surely gone but let's see how Bass ends the season.

[Warcodered]

8 minutes ago, Sherlock Holmes said:

Since Von is still playing might as well swap Martin for Araiza since he didn’t do anything wrong

Martin is definitely falling off as a punter he doesn't make it to next season, trouble is he's also the holder. You have to weigh finding a replacement mid season who can both be better as a punter and get in sync with Bass and Reid.

[GoBills808]

Bass is the fifth highest paid kicker in the league

[Zag20]

36 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I blame the placeholder 😎

Yeah!!! That’s the backup Qb right? Oh….

[Alphadawg7]

 

2 words:  Punt God

[Dr.Sack]

We need Matt “Bad Moon” Araiza to learn from Von Miller how to diffuse a PR nightmare. 
 

Also we need Bass to wear a blackout visor so his face stops resembling Norwood. 

[34-78-83]

Martin was extremely good in this game.

 

He has had a tough year, however.

 

Bass was money today. 62 was out of his range in the conditions. Butker passed on a 59 yarder for the same reasons out there.

[pennstate10]

1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

Bass would be 84% (about league average) if Jalen Carter doesn't make a great play on the blocked field goal which shows you why you need a larger sample size when evaluating kickers. 

 

Sam Martin I'm way more concerned about going down the stretch.  

I was at that game. Jalen Carter didn’t make a great play. It was a bad kick, very very low. I don’t think,it would have been good even if not blocked. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

Yeah... But if he misses the 62, what does that do for his confidence later in game?

 

Like hitching up a wrecked horse. 

 

Shakir almost grabbed that HM!

 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2023 by ExiledInIllinois

[SydneyBillsFan]

Yeah its basically a one US dollar to one Guatemalan peso exchange rate as far as value goes with our ST cap hit.

[GunnerBill]

I think Martin is done. He was good for us last year coming in right before the season but I honestly think his leg has gone. 

 

As for Bass I am pretty sure there is something physical going on. He is not getting the distance he normally does on kick offs and the Bills have been noticeably more conservative in trying long FGs than other years. I am pretty certain that after the season we will find out he has been carrying some sort of injury that has lingered. 

Edited December 11, 2023 by GunnerBill

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, pennstate10 said:

I was at that game. Jalen Carter didn’t make a great play. It was a bad kick, very very low. I don’t think,it would have been good even if not blocked. 

He didn't strike it well.  You're right.  I still think it would've eeked through from that distance though.  I thought it was a great play by Carter.

[Trogdor]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I think Martin is done. He was good for us last year coming in right before the season but I honestly think his leg has gone. 

 

As for Bass I am pretty sure there is something physical going on. He is getting the distance he normally does on kick offs and the Bills have been noticeably more conservative in trying long FGs than other years. I am pretty certain that after the season we will find out he has been carrying some sort of injury that has lingered. 

I thought this was by design to try and force a run that gets stopped before the 25. Problem there is that the coverage unit is awful and has been all year. I'm not really sure how the ST coordinator has a job. 

[Bad Things]

FFS.

1. We won the game

2.  Bass was 2/2 on FGs and 2/2 on extra points.

 

How the heck is that a "poor performance"?

What a miserable fanbase some of us have become.

[GunnerBill]

21 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

I thought this was by design to try and force a run that gets stopped before the 25. Problem there is that the coverage unit is awful and has been all year. I'm not really sure how the ST coordinator has a job. 

 

They have always kicked short by design some but when was the last time you actually saw Bass kick it through the endzone? Even when he has had touchbacks in recent weeks they have been the downed just inside variety. There is definitely something beyond strategy going on. 

 

And agree on the coverage teams, worst they have been in a long time. They have really missed Taiwan Jones and it blows a hole into the "anyone can be a gunner" narrative. 

[Doc Brown]

22 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I think Martin is done. He was good for us last year coming in right before the season but I honestly think his leg has gone. 

 

As for Bass I am pretty sure there is something physical going on. He is getting the distance he normally does on kick offs and the Bills have been noticeably more conservative in trying long FGs than other years. I am pretty certain that after the season we will find out he has been carrying some sort of injury that has lingered. 

It's possible.  He drilled the 48 yarder in the rain against the Eagles but his kickoffs into the end zone weren't through the back like they usually were (also may have had to do with the rain).

 

There may have been some wind in the stadium yesterday as I found it odd Reid didn't let Butker try and kick that 56 yard field goal and punted instead in the first half.

[Einstein]

5 hours ago, Doc said:

Kicking at the 40 is a 57 yard FG.  That's a low percentage kick.

 

So is a hail mary.

[Pete]

Martin played well I thought.  He had a 60 yard punt, an another 44 yarder that went out of bounds.  Bass made all of his kicks.

 

We won.  Is this your takeaway?  Enjoy Bills Victory Monday

[GunnerBill]

30 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

So is a hail mary.

 

Probably has less of a chance of a successful return though because you have fast guys on the field. If a 62 yard kick falls short you have a lot of big guys trying to prevent a return. 

[Billy Claude]

13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Probably has less of a chance of a successful return though because you have fast guys on the field. If a 62 yard kick falls short you have a lot of big guys trying to prevent a return. 

 

I don't think it is a question of having fast guys on the field, it's that most of the time the guy intercepting the hail Mary gets tackled right away.

 

Otherwise most of the fast guys on offense are on the wrong side of the ball.  If the defender doesn't get tackled right away, there's almost no one to stop him on a hail Mary as we saw in the Bills Jets and Jets Dolphins games.

 

Edited December 11, 2023 by Billy Claude

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, Billy Claude said:

 

I don't think it is a question of having fast guys on the field, it's that most of the time the guy intercepting the hail Mary gets tackled right away.

 

Otherwise most of the fast guys on offense are on the wrong side of the ball.  If the defender doesn't get tackled right away, there's almost no one to stop him on a hail Mary as we saw in the Bills Jets and Jets Dolphins games.

 

 

There is that too, but you still have faster guys out there than you do when you are trying to stop a FG return. 

[ProcessTruster]

time to go back and get the punt-g-d !!  Matt Araiza.  Get er done Beane.  

[DJB]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I think Martin is done. He was good for us last year coming in right before the season but I honestly think his leg has gone. 

 

As for Bass I am pretty sure there is something physical going on. He is getting the distance he normally does on kick offs and the Bills have been noticeably more conservative in trying long FGs than other years. I am pretty certain that after the season we will find out he has been carrying some sort of injury that has lingered. 

With how strict the NFL has been on teams notifying player injuries I think you are off here with your assumption of a physical issue. 

[TrentEdwardsCheckDownOn4th]

7 hours ago, Zag20 said:

Not having him attempt a 62 yarder isn’t exactly an indicative of the staff’s confidence in him. That would be a top 10 all time Fg made. 

We were at KC 40 which would have made it 57 yards not 62. 57 seems reasonable. It was 4th and 9. Either way punting seems like the worst of the 3 options in that situation.