DORSEY FIRED, Joe Brady Interim OC

[Low Positive]

Just now, Dick_Cheney said:

I'm very aware of our injury situation.

 

The point still stands that if we score one more time in basically any and all of our losses, we are leading the division right now. The defense has problems but all things considered, I don't put the majority of the blame on them for how things currently stand. For as talented as Allen is, along with Diggs, Kincaid, and sometimes Cook and sometimes Davis, it's inexcusable for the offense to have been performing how it has.

Not only unexcusable but inexplicable. How is this the same group of guys that destroyed the Dolphins? Why can't they play the way they played against the Raiders? I know a lot of fans of other teams and they just don't understand what they are seeing from the Bills.

[CincyBillsFan]

12 minutes ago, 34-30 said:

QB's turning it over at this rate aren't elite.  

You mean QB's turning the ball over this much.  If you look at the rate of Allen TO's compared to TD's he produces, which is the only logical way to look at it, you get a TD/TO ratio of 2 which is actually good.  A ration of 1 or less is considered bad while a ratio above 3 is excellent.  So while Allen needs to improve here he is hardly doing bad in this metric.  In fact he's doing quite good.

 

 

[Mikie2times]

37 minutes ago, Rocbillsfan1 said:

It is if you feel like you could be made the next HC. 

That's the only angle

[Low Positive]

9 minutes ago, boyst said:

allegedly.

So he was a secret Panther while he was working for the Saints and at LSU?

[Heels20X6]

Just now, Low Positive said:

Not only unexcusable but inexplicable. How is this the same group of guys that destroyed the Dolphins? Why can't they play the way they played against the Raiders? I know a lot of fans of other teams and they just don't understand what they are seeing from the Bills.

 

EXACTLY.  This is the issue I have with the offense.  There are no major injuries (Knox aside) but they are unable to get into any sort of rhythm.  There is no reason for this team to be relying on the defense in a two-minute drill to protect a 1-4 point lead.  Against these mediocre teams like the Jets, Pats and Broncos, they should be spotting the defense a 21-30 point lead.  It's baffling how out of sync they are.

[Ballhawk]

Just now, Low Positive said:

Not only unexcusable but inexplicable. How is this the same group of guys that destroyed the Dolphins? Why can't they play the way they played against the Raiders? I know a lot of fans of other teams and they just don't understand what they are seeing from the Bills.

To me this is the problem with fans, treating the game in either offense or defense terms. The injuries to our defense affect the whole team. If you thought the team prior to London was unacceptable then you should want to see McDermott fired at the end of the year. I saw that team prior to London as very promising, the injuries cloud the assessment of the teams performance since then. To me he gets another year. 

[boyst]

1 minute ago, Low Positive said:

So he was a secret Panther while he was working for the Saints and at LSU?

possibly.

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

Add the fumbles.

 

No fumbles in the postseason.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

3 hours ago, Bob Jones said:

Should have canned McClappy too, obviously. Dorsey is the scapegoat. He didn’t drop balls or throw INTs or fumble the ball. X4

 

The turnovers are on the players but Dorsey had to go because the offense was too predictable and the players had to be perfect to make it work and nobody can do that.

 

 

[Dick_Cheney]

1 minute ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Trust me McDermott is dead coach walking and he knows it. He played his last scapegoat card this morning.  Surprised he didn't fire Smiley too.  He's not only lost the locker room but I think the lack of team confidence is astounding. Josh has lost leadership skills. He's pouting more. Players have to cheer him up and not the other way around.  Obviously for 6 years McD has forced him to be heroic.  And that's where we see all the reckless hero ball.  No mentor, no tough boss to get in his face and reel him back in.  Even Nick Wright (who I still hate) accurately stated this morning that Josh doesn't know when to "turn off" herp ball.  "You don't need hero ball against Mac Jones, Zach Wilson or aging Russell Wilson.  He said the Bills should be 8-2. This hero ball persona has been hammered into Josh because of McDermott. 

I pretty much agree entirely. Maybe I am wrong and just have not seen when it happened, but for whatever bad games and garbage moments Mahomes and Burrow have had, I don't recall ever seeing their demeanor similar to how we have seen Allen this season. Everyone has moments of frustration, but this team has zero identity, no confidence, and mentally I think they're going into games now expecting things like this to happen. They will continue to fail horribly as long as that is the case, and fixing that starts higher up the chain than Allen or any other team captain.

 

Like I said, it's "possible" that a suddenly unstoppable offense fixes everything and gets everyone's head back on straight, but that's asking a lot at this point, and it still doesn't resolve all of McD's now obvious shortcomings. Currently it feels like the only way for this team to truly succeed is for the offense to somehow perform at such a high level that it compensates for the inevitable failure of McD's decision making in critical moments. Those moments become far less critical when you're up by 2 or 3 scores.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

This is not a glowing review of support for McDermott, but Dorsey definitely was not working. During the offseason people on here were bubbling with the acquisition of Dalton Kincaid. Of particular note was going to be how the Bills could dictate coverage and manufacture mismatches by starting in a base 12, but could then put Kincaid into motion as effective 11 personnel, or could overload coverage as run plays.

 

I saw none of that. I saw too much running QB draws out of shotgun that worked one time. 

 

Allen is going to need to be coached back up. I don't know if it's easy, but Dorsey was not doing it. He had no second punch.

[Mikie2times]

10 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

https://x.com/benbbaldwin/status/1724479784174973373?s=20

He was 22nd in the league last year. You don't get to take away the interceptions Josh should have had the last few years and then also argue the ones he has had this year shouldn't have happened. He was incredibly lucky the last two years. Balls fell thru so many defender hands I couldn't count. 

[PrimeTime101]

2 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

https://x.com/benbbaldwin/status/1724479784174973373?s=20

Take a GOOD look at this statistic people. For those that are to lazy to Click the link? here it is

 

"Josh Allen has the 9th-lowest turnover-worthy play rate out of 38 qualifying QBs (played at least 20% of team's snaps).

Josh Allen has a lower turnover-worthy play rate than Tua, Lamar, Mahomes, and Herbert"

 

 

 

I 75% Blame the following.. HC having hands on offensive plays/book + Dorsey being a bad game planner and bad play caller. 

Not to mention, How many plays have we seen 2-3 WR's within 4-5 yards of each other at the end of routs? The play designs are horrible. 

not just the play call itself.

 

25% or less On Josh Allen. He has made critical dumb mistakes at the worst of time.

 

Yes I know this equals 150% but 50% on Beane. OLD replacements on both sides of the ball. Over Spending on Von. Flipping contracts the help us

this year but screws our future. McD and Beane not grasping the point that you either need a really good Line or you need talented WR's. older replacements.

 

So to those of you that are still delusional that our GM and HC is just fine? I make this point. How good were we when we had 3 solid WR's and one

of the worst offensive lines in the league. ?

 

For those that don't think that our HC is not in the hotseat and wants to blame JA and his INT's. ? Enjoy your blinders. 

[FireChans]

8 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

You mean QB's turning the ball over this much.  If you look at the rate of Allen TO's compared to TD's he produces, which is the only logical way to look at it, you get a TD/TO ratio of 2 which is actually good.  A ration of 1 or less is considered bad while a ratio above 3 is excellent.  So while Allen needs to improve here he is hardly doing bad in this metric.  In fact he's doing quite good.

 

 

I think you need to reset your barometer. 2:1 is not much higher than average. And 1:1 is horrific, not just bad.

[BigAl2526]

6 minutes ago, Logic said:

I don't disagree that the players were the primary problem last night...but whose job is it to get those players ready? 

When it's not just one player having issues with execution, ball security, and sloppiness...when it's pretty much every player on offense...that points to one thing, in my opinion: Coaching. 

Guys like Cook and Diggs and Allen didn't all just suddenly become worse players from last year to this year. Their trend of regression that begin when Daboll left and continues now points, again, to coaching.

When an entire offense worth of players is failing and committing the same errors week after week, the coach in charge of that offense is not doing a good enough job.

I don't disagree, but if anything, player performance might be tied to position coaches rather than the coordinator.  The coordinator's job has more to do with scheme, game planning and play calling.  

[Low Positive]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

I think you need to reset your barometer. 2:1 is not much higher than average. And 1:1 is horrific, not just bad.

In 1999, Brett Favre had 21 TDs and 22 INTs. That's bad.

[Norcalbillsfan]

He wasn't the problem but some sort of change needed to happen, might as well see what Brady can do

[Nihilarian]

This offense has been far, far too predictable under Dorsey. Opposing teams know what is coming and unless the Buffalo offensive players play perfectly it's doomed to fail. 

 

The offense might be complex to a degree but its plays have been simple for teams to diagnose. 

 

Hopefully, this changes this week with a different OC. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

17 minutes ago, Ballhawk said:

Injury luck is affected by an old roster but not solely determined by it. I don't care how young Milano was, that knee was not surviving that hit.

 

No, but guys like Tre/Von/Hyde/Poyer it most CERTAINLY is.

 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

If this thing flops there will be nowhere left to turn with McDermott. Worry about the defense blowing leads and stay the ***** out of the offensive room. If you wanna show Brady how to get guys wide open on 3rd down, show him tapes of opponents against our defense

[34-30]

10 minutes ago, Heels20X6 said:

 

EXACTLY.  This is the issue I have with the offense.  There are no major injuries (Knox aside) but they are unable to get into any sort of rhythm.  There is no reason for this team to be relying on the defense in a two-minute drill to protect a 1-4 point lead.  Against these mediocre teams like the Jets, Pats and Broncos, they should be spotting the defense a 21-30 point lead.  It's baffling how out of sync they are.

DC's are smart. Very smart. They watch the film. They take away what you want to do and force you to adjust and do something different. Its up to the offense..up to the QB...to make the adjustment and take what is left to them. Do that well and it forces the defense to do something else..opening up what you did originally..what you want to do.

 

Defenses know that Allen will throw it to them.  No need to readjust.  They know he'll beat them at times..a few plays here, a few plays there. But until he stops giving it away, they'll swallow their medicine on a few drives.  

 

Guys..his game isn't growing. If he has to be "freed" and allowed to do what he wants, thats not growth. Because teams aren't going to let that happen.  You can harp on coaching all you want...and yes, coaches had issues..but Allen needs to grow his game. He needs to stop pouting and looking lost and moping through a press conference and the turnovers have to stop. 

 

I don't think they will.  This is who he is. He's not a savior. He's a highly talented kid with major flaws. And teams are exploiting those flaws.

[I'm Spartacus]

25 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Agree...it's easy to break down stuff on Twitter...he has never been a coach...how did that work out for Jeff Saturday and the Colts?

Orlovsky seems extremely intelligent (at least to me), about offensive philosophy and insight. I was spitballing about hiring him as OC, but what makes your counter opinion/comment on him so sure fire wrong as a OC pick? Lets hear your best hire as OC my friend, so we can pick apart your opinion.

[L Ron Burgundy]

For those blaming Josh;  have you ever seen a qb lead the team in passing and rushing more times in a game than him?

 

Yes he's turning the ball over too much.  No he is not the problem.   He's a generational talent.  That doesn't make him immune to criticism but saying he's at fault is crazy, emotional talk.

[Ballhawk]

7 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

No, but guys like Tre/Von/Hyde/Poyer it most CERTAINLY is.

 

True but on balance with:

 

Milano (27)

Benford (23)

Sherfield (27)

Knox (26)

Harris (26)

Shorter (23)

Doyle (25)

 

It's not entirely age driven, in fact as far as roster construction goes there's a pretty decent amount of young guys injured as well. 

 

Look I get injuries are often perceived as a weak excuse, all I'm saying is in the extreme (though few NFL coaches will ever acknowledge it publicly) there is a tipping point...

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Ballhawk

[Artful Dodger]

The thing that most confused me about Dorsey is that as soon as something worked, he would immediately do something else.

 

In the Cinci game, on the first drive, they had a lot of success with an uptempo, no-huddle offense, so of course they went away from that for much of the rest of the game.  Then, when time was nearly out and they had to drive the ball down the field quickly, they did, easily.  

 

I could never figure out what was going on in the guy's head.  

[finn]

4 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

If this thing flops there will be nowhere left to turn with McDermott. Worry about the defense blowing leads and stay the ***** out of the offensive room. If you wanna show Brady how to get guys wide open on 3rd down, show him tapes of opponents against our defense

Fire the defensive coordinator! Accountability!

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 minutes ago, 34-30 said:

DC's are smart. Very smart. They watch the film. They take away what you want to do and force you to adjust and do something different. Its up to the offense..up to the QB...to make the adjustment and take what is left to them. Do that well and it forces the defense to do something else..opening up what you did originally..what you want to do.

 

Defenses know that Allen will throw it to them.  No need to readjust.  They know he'll beat them at times..a few plays here, a few plays there. But until he stops giving it away, they'll swallow their medicine on a few drives.  

 

Guys..his game isn't growing. If he has to be "freed" and allowed to do what he wants, thats not growth. Because teams aren't going to let that happen.  You can harp on coaching all you want...and yes, coaches had issues..but Allen needs to grow his game. He needs to stop pouting and looking lost and moping through a press conference and the turnovers have to stop. 

 

I don't think they will.  This is who he is. He's not a savior. He's a highly talented kid with major flaws. And teams are exploiting those flaws.

 

Whoever you are, you need to post more, this is 100% correct.

 

His first three seasons, he spent the offseason putting in the WORK to elevate this game. Haven't seen that the past two. Is it that he thinks he's made it now that he's sitting on a veritable mountain of cash? Who knows

 

[Jukester]

3 minutes ago, I'm Spartacus said:

Orlovsky seems extremely intelligent (at least to me), about offensive philosophy and insight. I was spitballing about hiring him as OC, but what makes your counter opinion/comment on him so sure fire wrong as a OC pick? Lets hear your best hire as OC my friend, so we can pick apart your opinion.

Funny thing is, in the segment with McAfee today, he said he is interested in and hopes to get a shot at an NFL OC job some day.  

[34-30]

2 minutes ago, L Ron Burgundy said:

For those blaming Josh;  have you ever seen a qb lead the team in passing and rushing more times in a game than him?

 

Yes he's turning the ball over too much.  No he is not the problem.   He's a generational talent.  That doesn't make him immune to criticism but saying he's at fault is crazy, emotional talk.

If he's leading in passing and rushing..thats a major issue with the offense. And if he's leading the offense in rushing and hurdling people, eventually your "generational talent" is going to be on the sideline taking up a huge chunk of your cap while some no name leads you nowhere. Because that no name isn't going to lead you in rushing and won't do much in the pass game either. 

 

He's not a generational talent.  A generational talent wears #15 and plays in KC.  He's just a very talented kid with major holes in his game. Nothing wrong with that. He's one of the most talented QB's in the league. The problem is we're starting to see major holes in his makeup as well.  He's not handling adversity all to well.

[L Ron Burgundy]

2 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

Whoever you are, you need to post more, this is 100% correct.

 

His first three seasons, he spent the offseason putting in the WORK to elevate this game. Haven't seen that the past two. Is it that he thinks he's made it now that he's sitting on a veritable mountain of cash? Who knows

 

Oh you're an expert on his offseason.   Got it.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, L Ron Burgundy said:

Oh you're an expert on his offseason.   Got it.

 

Seen or heard any reports of him still working with Palmer? I haven't.

 

[QCity]

Honestly surprised McD had the stones to do this midseason. 

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

Seen or heard any reports of him still working with Palmer? I haven't.

 

he still does

 

 

[Paup 1995MVP]

1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

This sounds like the theme of "Team of Rivals," and I don't agree.  I've been blessed to be part of some very high-performing military and business teams that were characterized by great relationships.  There was no complacency.  

 

Patton once said something to the effect that if ten people are thinking alike, then only nine are thinking.  Disagreement is a necessary part of a leadership team.  But the members of the team can still have great relationships.  

 

Look at Earnest Shackleton's leadership team.  His men described Shackleton like this, "The greatest leader than ever came on God's green earth, bar none..."  "I don't think there's any doubt that we all owe our lives to his leadership...."  "For all the best points of leadership the palm must be given to Shackleton."  There was extraordinarily little "friction/tension" on his leadership team.  Shackleton, in fact, did everything he could to minimize the tension and maximize the harmony.  His leadership team had great relationships and accomplished amazing things together.  

 

 

Excuse my ignorance.  But who is Earnest Shackleton? 

  

[Warriorspikes51]

1 minute ago, QCity said:

Honestly surprised McD had the stones to do this midseason. 

May have been heavily pressured to make a change or it was him to go 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

he still does

 

 

Then I stand corrected!

 

That's even more concerning, then, if he's putting in the work and getting WORSE.

 

[L Ron Burgundy]

1 minute ago, 34-30 said:

If he's leading in passing and rushing..thats a major issue with the offense. And if he's leading the offense in rushing and hurdling people, eventually your "generational talent" is going to be on the sideline taking up a huge chunk of your cap while some no name leads you nowhere. Because that no name isn't going to lead you in rushing and won't do much in the pass game either. 

 

He's not a generational talent.  A generational talent wears #15 and plays in KC.  He's just a very talented kid with major holes in his game. Nothing wrong with that. He's one of the most talented QB's in the league. The problem is we're starting to see major holes in his makeup as well.  He's not handling adversity all to well.

Mahomes has had major, major advantages over Josh team-wise.  This year not receiving corp but every other year.   Offensive line and coaching as well.  He's had one offense to learn his career so far too.  

 

They are both generational qbs to me.  There are plays Pat can't make that Josh can and vice-versa.

[DapperCam]

Just now, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Then I stand corrected!

 

That's even more concerning, then, if he's putting in the work and getting WORSE.

 

Maybe the offensive coordinator and scheme stinks, and the small success Allen has was despite that.

 

It’s possible…

[TrentEdwardsCheckDownOn4th]

Absolutely insane to me that having 12 men on the field during the final kick was the nail in the coffin for Dorsey.  If we squeak out a win , dorsey isn't fired and we are probably  stuck with him for the rest of the year.  

 

Losing that game may have been the best thing that could have happened to this franchise.  Is this the turning point?

[ProcessTruster]

3 hours ago, May Day 10 said:

Its about time.

 

I was worried that McDermott was going to save this bullet to sacrifice to the angry gods at the end of the season.  Let's go now!!!

Mid season OC changeouts very rarely go well.