Caleb Williams demanding part ownership

[Mikie2times]

The responses here are funny. Any human on this planet is free and clear to ask whatever the “F” they want to be compensated. It’s up to the free market to make a decision if that request makes sense or not. Nobody ever got more by asking for less. He is an entertainer. Nothing more. He doesn’t have to show some sort of love for the game because that was the image of his predecessors. If that answer doesn’t work, again, free market. 

Edited October 20, 2023 by Mikie2times

[Buffalo Super Fan]

He won’t get NFL ownership unless he buys it in a ownership group in my opinion. Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

[foreboding]

On 10/18/2023 at 10:30 PM, CDogg20 said:

Per reports, Caleb Williams is demanding part ownership of whatever team that drafts him. I wanna hear what my favorite people gave to say about this!

 

Personally I think this could potentially destroy his draft stock unless he backs off of it. Absolutely ludacris to think that much of yourself

Well the good news is...belichik would never draft that kind of guy.

[DrDawkinstein]

21 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Setting aside CW’s specific situation, how exactly is “the horse out of the barn”? No NFL team has given a player ownership as part of their contract as a player. Nor has one given that to a coach. The NFL is not an also-ran league like the MLS or XFL.

 

A former player, coach or GM can buy in just like anyone else. It won’t even matter if an owner pulls a Haslam/Watson and tries to do it because the league will never allow it to happen.  

 

I just meant the fact that it's being discussed more and more. Momentum is building. The League office will do its best to shut that down as quickly as possible. But the more it gets talked about, the more agents think about it, and come up with ways to pitch it, next thing you know it will become a bargaining chip in the next round of CBA negotiations.

 

I guess I've just seen it so many times in my career in tech. Someone comes up with an idea that seems crazy. Everyone says "No way!" at first, especially those that will be most affected by it. But if there is a want, and there IS a want here, then it slowly builds. Next thing you know, it's happening. And then it's like it was always there the whole time and no big deal.

 

I know when we were growing up, no player was ever talking about team ownership or ownership as compensation. Now they are across most of the leagues. And we've already seen a few instances of it being discussed in the NFL. All you need is that seed of thought to be planted, and it's on.

 

Not saying it will happen quickly, but I'd bet within the next few rounds of CBA renewals you'll see it.

[DrDawkinstein]

17 hours ago, bigK14094 said:

 

They should start their own league then.

 

They should!

 

If the NFLPA decided they were taking all the players and starting their own league, I guarantee that would be the league you watch.

 

Heck, if the top 100 players defected and started their own league, that would be the league we all watch.

 

The owners bring zero value to the table. ZERO.

 

It's all about the players. They are the reason we watch. They are the reason the league rakes in billions of dollars every year.

 

The spite and vitriol displayed in this thread is so weird.

[boyst]

34 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

They should!

 

If the NFLPA decided they were taking all the players and starting their own league, I guarantee that would be the league you watch.

 

Heck, if the top 100 players defected and started their own league, that would be the league we all watch.

 

The owners bring zero value to the table. ZERO.

 

It's all about the players. They are the reason we watch. They are the reason the league rakes in billions of dollars every year.

 

The spite and vitriol displayed in this thread is so weird.

the catch is the owners control the infrastructure and the logistics of the league. without those two the NFLPA could never succeed. the logistics of the nfl schedule is absolutely amazing from the league level down to the team. the communication and coordination on that level is tremendous.

[DrDawkinstein]

30 minutes ago, boyst said:

the catch is the owners control the infrastructure and the logistics of the league. without those two the NFLPA could never succeed. the logistics of the nfl schedule is absolutely amazing from the league level down to the team. the communication and coordination on that level is tremendous.

 

Cmon man, that isnt wizardry or rocket surgery. The Player's League would just hire folks to do that work, same as it is today.

 

Stadiums would be the hardest thing to figure out right away, but USFL and XFL pulled it off. The more talented league would have an easier time catching on.

[billybob71]

I told the Bills I will no longer be a fan without part ownership... they are considering it

[Augie]

8 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Cmon man, that isnt wizardry or rocket surgery. The Player's League would just hire folks to do that work, same as it is today.

 

Stadiums would be the hardest thing to figure out right away, but USFL and XFL pulled it off. The more talented league would have an easier time catching on.

 

Nope, the hardest part will be walking away from BILLIONS of dollars in TV contracts until the league is proven and a deal can be struck. Owners could act as the bank there, but we are getting rid of the owners.

 

If your career only lasts a few more years, who wants to give up the vast majority of their income as an investment for future generations. Yeah, that would be nobody. Players are in it for the money. They won’t walk away from that. 

[TheFunPolice]

who is going to pay the players in this new league? If this was something they wanted to do they could try to go to a league that already exists like the XFL and make $50,000. And if they are under contract with an NFL team things would be dicey legally to say the least. 

 

This was already done in the past with the USFL. Jim Kelly, Steve Young, lots of big names played there for a bit but not many % wise and the NFL did just fine. 

 

The idea that the top players would all decide to leave the NFL and take a massive paycut so that some unproven rookie can get part ownership of an NFL team (but they're leaving?) is just goofy. 

 

What would happen IF a bunch of big name guys left is other NFL players would see opportunity for starting jobs and more $$ in the big league. You think Mahomes is walking away from a half billion dollars to make peanuts in some spring league? 

 

There is 0% chance any player is getting part ownership of a team, especially an unproven rookie. He will get tens of millions of dollars per year though, mostly guaranteed. 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 20, 2023 by TheFunPolice

[DrDawkinstein]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

Nope, the hardest part will be walking away from BILLIONS of dollars in TV contracts until the league is proven and a deal can be struck. Owners could act as the bank there, but we are getting rid of the owners.

 

If your career only lasts a few more years, who wants to give up the vast majority of their income as an investment for future generations. Yeah, that would be nobody. Players are in it for the money. They won’t walk away from that. 

 

I'm not saying it would happen or will happen or it would be easy. Just illustrating the point that the viewership would follow the players.

 

 

16 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

who is going to pay the players in this new league? If this was something they wanted to do they could try to go to a league that already exists like the XFL and make $50,000. And if they are under contract with an NFL team things would be dicey legally to say the least. 

 

This was already done in the past with the USFL. Jim Kelly, Steve Young, lots of big names played there for a bit but not many % wise and the NFL did just fine. 

 

The idea that the top players would all decide to leave the NFL and take a massive paycut so that some unproven rookie can get part ownership of an NFL team (but they're leaving?) is just goofy. 

 

What would happen IF a bunch of big name guys left is other NFL players would see opportunity for starting jobs and more $$ in the big league. You think Mahomes is walking away from a half billion dollars to make peanuts in some spring league? 

 

There is 0% chance any player is getting part ownership of a team, especially an unproven rookie. He will get tens of millions of dollars per year though, mostly guaranteed. 

 

 

 

 

 

You guys are really spun up on this whole thing

 

No one is seriously arguing the bold. The whole point was the owners need players more than the players need owners.

 

Starting a new league would be tough, but at this point, there is no reason the players/CBA dont take a larger share of the existing league now that all of the founding owners are dead/out.

 

 

Edited October 20, 2023 by DrDawkinstein

[TheFunPolice]

The more I think of this and the more you see "I'd take him off my board!" the more I wonder if that's the strategy. 

 

The talking heads in the media act like "falling down the board" is a bad thing, when in reality you drop a few spots and end up on a team like Pittsburgh, Green Bay, Denver with Sean Payton, NE with a long history, rich owner, and lots of $$ who just had down years...

 

Maybe that's the plan. OR create enough true doubt in the Chicagos of the world that they will trade out of the pick. Right now Chicago has the #1 and #2 picks. What if they hired a real coaching staff, picked their QB at #1 and traded #2 for an insane amount of capital? 

 

 

Edited October 20, 2023 by TheFunPolice

[schoolhouserock]

The NFL cannot allow this to happen.

 

Imagine if teams could offer ownership stakes to their franchise QB. They could potentially minimize QB contracts that go against the cap. It would be a huge competitive advantage.

[BigAl2526]

Somebody will draft him high in the first round.  Then there will be a long holdout.  If I were to bet, I'd bet that he never gets his share of ownership.  The team that drafts him will regret it and he will be an epic bust.

[Alphadawg7]

1. Don't care enough about a guy who will never be a Bill to read a 9 page thread to see if there is any further info on how real this story is or not.
2. It doesn't matter how real it is or not, because there is less than a 0% chance any team would give a player who has never stepped on an NFL field part ownership in a team.  
   1. Note:  There is less than a 0% chance they would do this for any player in the league ever, not even a Mahomes.  Players come and go, the league is forever.  They can't and will not ever open that pandoras box, nor should they.  

So this is either utter delusion by Caleb who is about to get a rude awakening, who isn't even playing that great the past couple weeks by the way...or it's just a BS story or some some exaggerated story that probably originated off a joke or something.  

 

PS:  Good chance too this is just some postering his team around him is doing in terms of maybe trying to affect some teams interest that he does not want to play for who may be in contention for the top pick too.  All the talk around LA is that he will stay at USC if certain teams end up with the top pick and intend on picking him.  So this could be some games or a smoke screen to try and cool some interest from teams he doesn't want to play for too.  For example, from what I have heard is that there is no way he will go to Chicago even though all my Chicago friends think they are getting both Caleb and Harrison Jr this draft.  Supposedly he won't go to a team that has a poor history of developing QB's, and Chicago's track record might be the worst in the NFL at that.  

[BarleyNY]

5 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I just meant the fact that it's being discussed more and more. Momentum is building. The League office will do its best to shut that down as quickly as possible. But the more it gets talked about, the more agents think about it, and come up with ways to pitch it, next thing you know it will become a bargaining chip in the next round of CBA negotiations.

 

I guess I've just seen it so many times in my career in tech. Someone comes up with an idea that seems crazy. Everyone says "No way!" at first, especially those that will be most affected by it. But if there is a want, and there IS a want here, then it slowly builds. Next thing you know, it's happening. And then it's like it was always there the whole time and no big deal.

 

I know when we were growing up, no player was ever talking about team ownership or ownership as compensation. Now they are across most of the leagues. And we've already seen a few instances of it being discussed in the NFL. All you need is that seed of thought to be planted, and it's on.

 

Not saying it will happen quickly, but I'd bet within the next few rounds of CBA renewals you'll see it.

 

I get what you’re saying about things coming to pass that were once unthinkable. But I think this is a hill NFL owners would die on. However it is an excellent negotiating tactic toward fully guaranteed contracts. Compared to players getting a piece of ownership of a team a fully guaranteed 5 or 6 year deal is very palatable. 

[Chicken Boo]

Absolutely worth the shot to ask for an ownership stake.  

 

Who here thinks it's bad business?  If a team says no or league squashes it, then so be it.  

 

And no QB needy franchise is taking him off their board.  

Edited October 20, 2023 by Chicken Boo

[DCofNC]

2 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

who is going to pay the players in this new league? If this was something they wanted to do they could try to go to a league that already exists like the XFL and make $50,000. And if they are under contract with an NFL team things would be dicey legally to say the least. 

 

This was already done in the past with the USFL. Jim Kelly, Steve Young, lots of big names played there for a bit but not many % wise and the NFL did just fine. 

 

The idea that the top players would all decide to leave the NFL and take a massive paycut so that some unproven rookie can get part ownership of an NFL team (but they're leaving?) is just goofy. 

 

What would happen IF a bunch of big name guys left is other NFL players would see opportunity for starting jobs and more $$ in the big league. You think Mahomes is walking away from a half billion dollars to make peanuts in some spring league? 

 

There is 0% chance any player is getting part ownership of a team, especially an unproven rookie. He will get tens of millions of dollars per year though, mostly guaranteed. 

 

 

 

 

Ever heard of LIV Golf?   Never count the Saudis out from trying to do something crazy and throw HUGE money at it.  They could go after a guy like Williams and whoever might be coming up as FA for the year and flip stuff on its head real quick.  Take away the young stars by offering more money than the NFL will.. get weird quick.

[TheFunPolice]

1 hour ago, DCofNC said:

Ever heard of LIV Golf?   Never count the Saudis out from trying to do something crazy and throw HUGE money at it.  They could go after a guy like Williams and whoever might be coming up as FA for the year and flip stuff on its head real quick.  Take away the young stars by offering more money than the NFL will.. get weird quick.

 

The big difference though is LIV is just a handful of golfers. Football you need huge rosters, practice facilities, stadiums, coaching staffs, support staffs, training staffs, coaches, referees...

 

By the time you get to practice squads and full rosters you would need 350 (ish) players just to field 6 teams, which is a tiny league. 

 

Way different from tossing gazillions of $ at a handful of big names like what happened with golf. The courses already exist and it's an individual sport for the most part. 

 

Football is enormously expensive in terms of overhead, and you need a ton of players to make it work,  which is why a lot of smaller schools don't have it. 

Edited October 20, 2023 by TheFunPolice

[The Wiz]

18 hours ago, foreboding said:

Well the good news is...belichik would never draft that kind of guy.

Bad news, probably won't be his call come draft time.

 

Good news, Kraft can give him partial ownership of one of his favorite day spas if he wanted to.

[NoSaint]

2 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

 

I get what you’re saying about things coming to pass that were once unthinkable. But I think this is a hill NFL owners would die on. However it is an excellent negotiating tactic toward fully guaranteed contracts. Compared to players getting a piece of ownership of a team a fully guaranteed 5 or 6 year deal is very palatable. 

well, an ownership stake is finite. It can’t be the answer or the owner runs out of ownership to give. And I doubt players would love ownership approval processes. Yet alone the teams dealing with annual public valuations to handle the salary cap. It’s just not reality and therefore not leverage. 
 

owners will just tell players to go buy whatever company or team they want with their paycheck. 

[The Wiz]

21 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

well, an ownership stake is finite. It can’t be the answer or the owner runs out of ownership to give. And I doubt players would love ownership approval processes. Yet alone the teams dealing with annual public valuations to handle the salary cap. It’s just not reality and therefore not leverage. 
 

owners will just tell players to go buy whatever company or team they want with their paycheck. 

Normally I would say that there would be a conflict of interest but I'm guessing the NFL doesn't care about that.

[NoSaint]

24 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

Normally I would say that there would be a conflict of interest but I'm guessing the NFL doesn't care about that.

Yet alone changing teams, right? Suddenly he’s playing against a team he owns?

[The Wiz]

3 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

Yet alone changing teams, right? Suddenly he’s playing against a team he owns?

Absolutely.  But you would have to question, even if the nfl didn't care, would another opener sign off on hiring another player that owns part of another team that you compete against?

 

This is why it makes no sense.  He's not Jackie Moon owning the tropics.  He's asking for part partial which no team will sign off on and that's probably going to be a question come combine interview time is he was being serious.  Even if he wasn't, in sure he's already rubbed probably 4/5 of the owners the wrong way about it.

[Mr. WEO]

11 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

Yet alone changing teams, right? Suddenly he’s playing against a team he owns?

 

When Williams is traded for a 4th round pick in his 3rd yer, the team that picks him up gets his share in the previous team...

[Augie]

I think I have a solution. A piece of ownership exists in perpetuity. A $50 million/year contract is only for 4-5 years.  Give them .00000001% ownership forever, plus minimum wage.   😋

[Scott7975]

He isn't getting any ownership stake in any team before he even plays a down in the NFL. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

16 hours ago, The Wiz said:

Good news, Kraft can give him partial ownership of one of his favorite day spas if he wanted to.

Their motto: 'The Customer Always Comes First!'

*
🤔

[PBF81]

On 10/18/2023 at 10:30 PM, CDogg20 said:

Per reports, Caleb Williams is demanding part ownership of whatever team that drafts him. I wanna hear what my favorite people gave to say about this!

 

Personally I think this could potentially destroy his draft stock unless he backs off of it. Absolutely ludacris to think that much of yourself

 

I wouldn't draft a USC QB ever.  They wouldn't even be on the first 20 picks of my 1st-round board, ever.  

 

Their QB production history given the matching hype is abysmal.  The PAC-10 is a defensively bereft conference that makes QBs coming out of it rate much better than most are.  

Let other sucker teams draft them.  

 

 

On 10/18/2023 at 10:31 PM, Warriorspikes51 said:

If I was a GM, I’d take him off my board. What an entitled clown. I bet the guy is a massive bust

 

Agree.  You can extrapolate that to the historically high rated USC QBs as well.  

 

 

[BearNorth]

What amazes me is how many of these "bust" USC QB's have spent time with the Bills.  - Rob Johnson, Matt Barkley, Matt Leinart, Matt Cassell ...

 

[Albany,n.y.]

2 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

I wouldn't draft a USC QB ever.  They wouldn't even be on the first 20 picks of my 1st-round board, ever.  

 

Their QB production history given the matching hype is abysmal.  The PAC-10 is a defensively bereft conference that makes QBs coming out of it rate much better than most are.  

Let other sucker teams draft them.  

 

 

 

Agree.  You can extrapolate that to the historically high rated USC QBs as well.  

 

 

The QB history of a college's QBs can be really bad-UNTIL IT ISN'T.  Example: What QB from Wyoming ever achieved stardom in the NFL before the 2018 draft?  There's a long list of Ohio State QB failures in the NFL, but it looks like the best QB from the 2023 draft came from Ohio State.  If Carolina used the past history of Ohio State QBs to decide to pass on Stroud, it was a pretty poor decision.  

The past failures of other players from a university is irrelevant when scouting a player.  Same is true the other way.  Stanford had produced some pretty good QBs over the years (Elway, Plunkett, Brodie) before Trent Edwards was drafted, but when Trent Edwards was with the Bills, the legacy of Stanford QBs didn't mean anything.  

[NoSaint]

16 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

He isn't getting any ownership stake in any team before he even plays a down in the NFL. 

it’ll take him a career to afford the buy in. 

[Augie]

31 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

The QB history of a college's QBs can be really bad-UNTIL IT ISN'T.  Example: What QB from Wyoming ever achieved stardom in the NFL before the 2018 draft?  There's a long list of Ohio State QB failures in the NFL, but it looks like the best QB from the 2023 draft came from Ohio State.  If Carolina used the past history of Ohio State QBs to decide to pass on Stroud, it was a pretty poor decision.  

The past failures of other players from a university is irrelevant when scouting a player.  Same is true the other way.  Stanford had produced some pretty good QBs over the years (Elway, Plunkett, Brodie) before Trent Edwards was drafted, but when Trent Edwards was with the Bills, the legacy of Stanford QBs didn't mean anything.  

 

Thank you! Every situation is different. You are not doing your job if you don’t treat every situation as a new situation, because it is. 

 

We used to joke in banking that just because you had to repossess a blue Chevy doesn’t mean you never lend on blue Chevy’s again. Just find the right borrower. Think! Every time! 

[Buffalo716]

3 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

The QB history of a college's QBs can be really bad-UNTIL IT ISN'T.  Example: What QB from Wyoming ever achieved stardom in the NFL before the 2018 draft?  There's a long list of Ohio State QB failures in the NFL, but it looks like the best QB from the 2023 draft came from Ohio State.  If Carolina used the past history of Ohio State QBs to decide to pass on Stroud, it was a pretty poor decision.  

The past failures of other players from a university is irrelevant when scouting a player.  Same is true the other way.  Stanford had produced some pretty good QBs over the years (Elway, Plunkett, Brodie) before Trent Edwards was drafted, but when Trent Edwards was with the Bills, the legacy of Stanford QBs didn't mean anything.  

The school the quarterback goes to absolutely does not matter

 

It always comes down to the player not the school

 

People don't like USC or Ohio State quarterbacks because they recruit the best high school quarterbacks to win now... They don't want to develop a guy for 3 years... They don't care about your pro potential... They want the best 20-year-old college quarterback available

 

They don't care what you're ceiling is.. or how far you can grow

 

They want the guy who could execute their offense every Saturday and get them to a conference championship

 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

This would only work with the Bears, even if he gets 5% he will be better than the McKaskeys.

[TheFunPolice]

He will just end up getting tons of $ instead.

 

The top QBs now are making 50 million per year, so 15 years in that's 3/4 of a billion and it will only go up.

 

It's not like a 2% or 5% stake means anything decision wise anyway. If the team is inept it's not like that would protect him in any way. 

[JDubya76]

If Williams is drafted by the Cheatriettes, Kraft will give him part ownership of a “handy” dandy Asian massage parlor chain. It’d be a win/win for both of them.

[Billl]

23 hours ago, NoSaint said:

well, an ownership stake is finite. It can’t be the answer or the owner runs out of ownership to give. And I doubt players would love ownership approval processes. Yet alone the teams dealing with annual public valuations to handle the salary cap. It’s just not reality and therefore not leverage. 
 

owners will just tell players to go buy whatever company or team they want with their paycheck. 

Plenty of businesses require employees to sell their equity back to the company when they leave employment.

[NoSaint]

52 minutes ago, Billl said:

Plenty of businesses require employees to sell their equity back to the company when they leave employment.

And with the nature of the nfl, I’m not sure makes a whole lot of sense to potentially do with guys every couple years. But such is life 

[TheFunPolice]

There's literally no upside to "a stake" which will mean nothing.

 

Lots of fans own a stake in the Green Bay Packers too. 

 

The whole thing is a logistical nightmare and it isn't going to happen. 

 

He'll just have to be happy making hundreds of millions of dollars. There's always the United Football League. 

 

Oh wait, I forgot that he can stay in college and make a couple million bucks. For a year. That'll show the NFL! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 21, 2023 by TheFunPolice