2023 MVP: Lamar will win it with 15 fewer TDs than Josh Allen (end of season talk pg 75+)

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, KDIGGZ said:

Fields tries to do too much because his team is crap. Maybe one of the worst teams in the past decade. Arizona is tanking and the Bears are still worse.

 

Historically, Fields has played very efficient football like Tua or Hurts when he doesn't have to do it all on his own. He has been consistently a 70%+ passer with very high TD to almost zero int ratio. He can do whatever they do in the right situation. Tua is 🗑️

I just have to ask one more question before I leave this conversation.

 

Is Justin Fields a better QB than Tua?

[KDIGGZ]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

I just have to ask one more question before I leave this conversation.

 

Is Justin Fields a better QB than Tua?

He would be if he was on the Dolphins, yes. Much better arm and waaaay more athletic 

[Captain Hindsight]

12 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Tua will forever be a system QB. When things don’t go right, he doesn’t have the athleticism or improvisation skills to make off-scripted big plays. He’s good at what he does which is distribute the ball accurately and on time. Unfortunately, everything needs to be nearly perfect for that offense to hum. Tua just isn’t on an MVP level to me. 

Yeah he isn’t nearly as bad as people like to say he is, but he also Isn’t going to win a game when things break down. He is in the best system possible for him

[Wraith]

7 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

I could see Tua having by far the best QB stats this year, because the Dolphins are going to stat pad against bad and middle of the road defenses.

 

Won’t matter come playoff time though.

Prior to yesterday, Tua already had the reputation for being a system-QB and yesterdays results are only going to strengthen that opinion. As Romo correctly pointed out in the game several times yesterday, Tua isn't even the most valuable player on his own offense. 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

What is interesting about Josh through 4 weeks is he has been better at home rather than on the road. I feel like to this point in his Bills career it has often been the other way around. He was flawless yesterday. I am glad he got a perfect passer rating because I thought his decision making was perfect yesterday. He played Quarterback literally perfectly. 

 

 

That was my thought.   He didn't have any turnover worthy plays but was still making some incredible throws.   Took a couple field goals instead of pushing the ball into traffic.   Also important that he not look to throw to his ball droppers Gabe/Knox/Shakir on 3rd downs (other than Shakir on that low % deep shot that he put right on the money).

[Royale with Cheese]

7 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

He would be if he was on the Dolphins, yes. Much better arm and waaaay more athletic 

 

Thank you.  Justin Fields is a better QB than Jalen Hurts and Tua.

This made my Victory Monday better.  

[KDIGGZ]

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Thank you.  Justin Fields is a better QB than Jalen Hurts and Tua.

This made my Victory Monday better.  

I hope for this argument's sake that the Dolphins sign Fields as Tua's backup and then when he gets concussed for the eleventyeth time Fields will go in and the rest will be history lol! Except the downside of that would be the Dolphins would actually have a good QB who can get away from pressure and the arm to throw it down the field. They are doing all of this in spite of Tua!

[Sherlock Holmes]

14 hours ago, Real McNasty said:

SO many of us saying it for awhile.  GET Josh a top O-Line and look out NFL.

 

IT"s happening.....

 

[Warcodered]

2 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

after Mahomes should have been credited with 4 ints last night, I'd say Josh is right there for MVP

then again....NBC awarded Mahomes a player of the game 🤣

Well I mean they weren't going to give it to a referee.

[Beast]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I just have to ask one more question before I leave this conversation.

 

Is Justin Fields a better QB than Tua?

Absolutely

 

not.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

What is interesting about Josh through 4 weeks is he has been better at home rather than on the road. I feel like to this point in his Bills career it has often been the other way around. He was flawless yesterday. I am glad he got a perfect passer rating because I thought his decision making was perfect yesterday. He played Quarterback literally perfectly. 

I’ve always loved Allen on the road too.

 

I would say small sample size and the Jets D is by far the best we have faced this year. And that game happened to be on the road. I expect another below average offensive output when we play the Jets again in Buffalo.

 

We do have two really nice late season weather games @ LA and @ Miami that should help Allen’s stats late in the year. 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

3 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

Uhh what? Tua completed 71% of his passes for almost 300 yards and a TD. You think that's bad? Wake me up when he has a mental collapse with 4 turnovers and tries to jump over 2 people 7 yards short of a 1st down. Josh has at least 2 more games like that in him for the season starting this week with Jax.

On the stage compared next to Allen, yeah Tua had a “bad” day, and came up short in key spots not able to keep up—I don’t know why you think Allen will fall off a cliff next week, but I guess that’s why they have to play the games. You’re entitled to your opinion, I’m to mine, that’s part of the fun with this, right? 

[L Ron Burgundy]

15 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

You throw out that abomination Jets game where Josh was way too amped and he's your mvp front runner after today.  Just stay on script Josh and the turnovers will disappear. 

Yeah that games got him out of contention for the moment.   He keeps turnovers low though he'll be in the race.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, McBean said:

Very fortunate to have this kid as our QB.

 

Wouldn’t want anyone else.

 

 

Yeah we know.

 

But having seen your utter despair unfold on TSW when they drafted him I know why you still feel the need to re-inforce it.

 

It's OK.........you weren't alone........SB trophy emoji's will suffice. 

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

2 hours ago, DapperCam said:

I could see Tua having by far the best QB stats this year, because the Dolphins are going to stat pad against bad and middle of the road defenses.

 

Won’t matter come playoff time though.

If armstead or Connor Williams are out for an extended period I think his mvp chances are out the window.  Even a lot of the bad/mediocre teams in the league have good defensive lines. They’ve still got:

chiefs

jets x 2

eagles

cowboys

titans

Commanders

Bills with von miller 

patriots

ravens 

 

Can’t play the broncos every week lol and his competition for mvp has 1 or 2 games against the broncos remaining 

Chiefs have two against the broncos and two against the raiders.  Honestly mahomes winning mvps should come with an asterisk at this point, josh has 4 games against two of the best defenses in the league, tua has 6 games against three of the best defenses in the league, burrows got 4 against good defenses no idea what to make of the Steelers yet, mahomes has 6 games a year against bad defenses 

Edited October 2, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[KDIGGZ]

Just now, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

On the stage compared next to Allen, yeah Tua had a “bad” day, and came up short in key spots not able to keep up—I don’t know why you think Allen will fall off a cliff next week, but I guess that’s why they have to play the games. You’re entitled to your opinion, I’m to mine, that’s part of the fun with this, right? 

History tells us he is guaranteed to have another brain fart Jets type game this year. He goes off the rails at least a couple times per year. That's why he doesn't win MVP. But the only MVP we should care about is Superbowl MVP!

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

11 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

History tells us he is guaranteed to have another brain fart Jets type game this year. He goes off the rails at least a couple times per year. That's why he doesn't win MVP. But the only MVP we should care about is Superbowl MVP!

I think it’s been weather/his elbow injury last year…we’ve had more bad weather games than anyone the last few years and it’s mostly just bad luck cuz it’s the away games too 😂

 

when you’re in an mvp race 5 or 6 games in pouring rain or high winds are a death sentence 

 

 

[McBean]

22 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah we know.

 

But having seen your utter despair unfold on TSW when they drafted him I know why you still feel the need to re-inforce it.

 

It's OK.........you weren't alone........SB trophy emoji's will suffice. 

 

what’s your draft history?

 

calling 100% I’m assuming?

 

Ive said multiple times on here how I’m on cloud 9 that I was wrong.

 

Kid is a stud.

[Chicken Boo]

15 hours ago, Fleezoid said:

Yeah, but when Trevor Lawrence throws for 4 TDs in week 7, (not next week), he'll be the MVP candidate. 

 

Yep. There's a whole lot of football left to be played.  

[BADOLBILZ]

3 minutes ago, McBean said:

what’s your draft history?

 

calling 100% I’m assuming?

 

Ive said multiple times on here how I’m on cloud 9 that I was wrong.

 

Kid is a stud.

 

 

Just saying..........we might be past the point where we are acting like he is a kid and his excellence is new........he's 27 and he's in his 6th NFL season and the 4th where he is among the finest in the game.

 

It's a message board but they offer emoji's to show appreciation instead of fishing for thumbs like you are fulfilling some penance.    Just pointing out the option for you.    

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

He would be if he was on the Dolphins, yes. Much better arm and waaaay more athletic 

 

Yeah but tua's precision is what makes a lot of that offense go.  When he's on that RPO attack can be really tough to stop.  

[The Wiz]

49 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Yeah but tua's precision is what makes a lot of that offense go.  When he's on that RPO attack can be really tough to stop.  

This is probably my favorite thing I heard this morning from some talking heads (and they are probably the 3 biggest Allen critics. Keyshawn, Irvin and Skip)

 

Tua, to them, is still the front runner for MVP because of how great "the miami offense" has been.

 

In the same breathe, they said that the game didn't lift Josh in the MVP talk because his receivers ran great routes to get open.

 

 

 

So the fact that Hill and Waddle can run a couple yards and make a quick catch and run by everyone makes Tua the favorite? 

 

Josh Allen wins games by himself; the offense that Tua plays in make him look better than he is and the bills showed that yesterday.

 

 

As most have said, I don't really care too much about the league MVP but at the same time, I feel like when you make the same point as a positive for one player and a excuse for another, you're still hanging on to a bit of bias.

 

[pennstate10]

2 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

This is probably my favorite thing I heard this morning from some talking heads (and they are probably the 3 biggest Allen critics. Keyshawn, Irvin and Skip)

 

Tua, to them, is still the front runner for MVP because of how great "the miami offense" has been.

 

In the same breathe, they said that the game didn't lift Josh in the MVP talk because his receivers ran great routes to get open.

 

 

 

So the fact that Hill and Waddle can run a couple yards and make a quick catch and run by everyone makes Tua the favorite? 

 

Josh Allen wins games by himself; the offense that Tua plays in make him look better than he is and the bills showed that yesterday.

 

 

As most have said, I don't really care too much about the league MVP but at the same time, I feel like when you make the same point as a positive for one player and a excuse for another, you're still hanging on to a bit of bias.

 

Coincidentally, those 3 are the dumbest NFL analysts around. 

[The Wiz]

2 minutes ago, pennstate10 said:

Coincidentally, those 3 are the dumbest NFL analysts around. 

I complete agree, but any other reason that they could have thrown out would have been at least in the realm of considering it.  Also Skip said that was the best game that he's ever see Allen play.  Apparently he missed that Perfect game against the Pats.

[Wraith]

1 hour ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Yeah but tua's precision is what makes a lot of that offense go.  When he's on that RPO attack can be really tough to stop.  

Allen's ball placement is every bit as good as Tua's. He has been elite in that category for several years now.

[AlfaBill]

6 minutes ago, pennstate10 said:

Coincidentally, those 3 are the dumbest NFL analysts around. 

That’s the answer right here. 3 tools. 
Mon the opposite side check out Simms latest unbuttoned. He actually said most talking heads are idiots for writing off Josh. And he himself admitted he was wrong. Not many do though. 

[strive_for_five_guy]

After yesterday, Josh needs to recreate this video:

 

 

 

[transplantbillsfan]

18 hours ago, loedward22 said:

So why is Mahomes listed with better odds?

 

He's not

https://www.foxsports.com/stories/nfl/2023-nfl-odds-christian-mccaffreys-mvp-odds-on-move-josh-allen-new-favorite

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/nfl-mvp-betting-odds-update-week-4-2023/

https://www.vegasinsider.com/nfl/odds/mvp/

[loedward22]

5 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

He's not

https://www.foxsports.com/stories/nfl/2023-nfl-odds-christian-mccaffreys-mvp-odds-on-move-josh-allen-new-favorite

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/nfl-mvp-betting-odds-update-week-4-2023/

https://www.vegasinsider.com/nfl/odds/mvp/

he was when the OP started this (which was before Mahomes played last night)(also it looks like maybe some threads were merged; I’m referring to the OP of a thread that had Allen prematurely announced as MVP favorite)

 

Edited October 2, 2023 by loedward22

[transplantbillsfan]

18 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

If he played like this every week he might have a chance at MVP but he's too hot or cold. The MVP is good every game, not just good one game then crap the next. We are on to the Jags where he couldn't complete a pass last year so let's not too ahead of ourselves 

 

Such a myopic perspective.

 

Every week?  You honestly think QBs play like MVPs every week in their MVP seasons?  Did you see Mahomes yesterday vs. the Jets?

 

Right now, Josh Allen is leading a 3-1 football team and is currently:

 

6th in passing yards

5th in YPA

1st in Completion % 

Tied for 1st in Total TDs

4th in Passer Rating

 

Yes, Josh has 4 interceptions.  So does Mahomes.  And Tua suddenly has 3.

[transplantbillsfan]

18 hours ago, Strethor said:

I care about the Lombardi trophy not the MVP award 

 

 

 

They aren't mutually exclusive.  Both can be nice.  We all obviously want a Super Bowl first.

[Warcodered]

 

[transplantbillsfan]

 

[transplantbillsfan]

Anyone feel like Josh Allen and AJ Epenesa are the only 2 players to get on the plane along with the refs?

 

Devastating drops. Phantom penalties & injuries galore. Horrible play calling for the 1st handful of drives--definitely a trend for Dorsey.

 

Regroup and petition the NFL to never force the Bills to play the Jags in London again.

 

 

Still... 5 games down:

 

73.1% completion percentage 

305 yards per game

105.6 Passer Rating 

14 TDs 

6 Turnovers 

8 YPA

[DapperCam]

Still had a very good game in terms of counting stats for a loss, but need first seed in the AFC to win MVP.

[BillsMontreal]

14 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Anyone feel like Josh Allen and AJ Epenesa are the only 2 players to get on the plane along with the refs?

 

Devastating drops. Phantom penalties & injuries galore. Horrible play calling for the 1st handful of drives--definitely a trend for Dorsey.

 

Regroup and petition the NFL to never force the Bills to play the Jags in London again.

 

 

Still... 5 games down:

 

73.1% completion percentage 

305 yards per game

105.6 Passer Rating 

14 TDs 

6 Turnovers 

8 YPA

Not sure on this one. We have 2 entire drives against prevent defense.  I'm a big fan of Allen and we're lucky to have a top QB like him.  But, our offense before those drives against Prevent had only one good drive and some good plays only here and there. Our offense had the ball a lot of times with only one score behing. They didnt score.

[ToGoGo]

2 minutes ago, BillsMontreal said:

Not sure on this one. We have 2 entire drives against prevent defense.  I'm a big fan of Allen and we're lucky to have a top QB like him.  But, our offense before those drives against Prevent had only one good drive and some good plays only here and there. Our offense had the ball a lot of times with only one score behing. They didnt score.

Voters and fans don’t watch the games unless they’re night games. 
 

Allen needs stats and big prime time performances to win MVP. Nobody watches England games. 
 

He’s still in the running as long as we make the playoffs. 

[GunnerBill]

Josh underthrew the pick. Definitely. Was right in front of me and Diggs had to come back 3 or 4 yards to even compete for that ball. If he gets it out in front it is a touchdown.

 

Other than that play though I am not putting any of the rest on Josh. OL had its worst game. Drops all over the place. Run game never got going. And confusing gameplan... against a team running a lot of man we ran no outside rubs, I didn't see a single crosser.... that is "playing against a man team playcalling 101".

[Dr.Sack]

Too many balls thrown to a man and not enough passes leading the man into open space. Kincaid being incorporated into the offense is absolutely essential to adding a missing dynamic. The offense must continually evolve or it will stagnate. 

[SWATeam]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Josh underthrew the pick. Definitely. Was right in front of me and Diggs had to come back 3 or 4 yards to even compete for that ball. If he gets it out in front it is a touchdown.

 

Other than that play though I am not putting any of the rest on Josh. OL had its worst game. Drops all over the place. Run game never got going. And confusing gameplan... against a team running a lot of man we ran no outside rubs, I didn't see a single crosser.... that is "playing against a man team playcalling 101".

The other deep one to Diggs was just as bad.  Good shot at the go ahead TD if Diggs didn't have to stop and wait for it.